Finally a fire extingushed. Wifey says she's heard of a new kind available
that
turns "fat to soap". Anyone know what it's called and who may sell such a
thing?

Special use wet chemical. Very expensive. Very effective. More likely to be
found in a chip shop.

http://www.bonusfire.co.uk/detail.ph...egory=2&item=6

A good type to have in a kitchen is ABC powder. Don't buy a diddy 1 litre
one for 25GBP in a shed. Get a 6kg for about 40GBP online. That will
actually put out a contained fire, such as a dustbin. An alternative is AFFF
foam, although powder is probably superior. Avoid water and CO2 for
kitchens.

http://www.bonusfire.co.uk/detail.ph...gory=3&item=11
http://www.bonusfire.co.uk/detail.ph...egory=2&item=5

Get some training on how to use them. Without training (and usually with
training too), their most effective use is to smash windows. The best plan
is almost always to get out and leave firefighting to the experts. However,
they can be useful in the initial stages of a contained fire, if you know
what you're doing and have already initiated the evacuation.

Probably the most important thing to remember about fire safety after smoke
alarms is teaching children an escape plan. The most important element of
this is teaching them not to hide. It is instinctive for young children to
hide in wardrobes in a fire, which is a death sentence. They must be told to
run for a door, and if no doors are available, to go to a room with a
window, shut the door and scream from the window.

ps We do have a fire alarm!

What type, though? Best is to have mains interlinked battery backup smoke
alarms through the entire house, except near the kitchen, which should have
a heat sensor mounted on the ceiling. This gives an effective alarm with
pretty much zero false alarms. An alarm which goes off every breakfast is in
chocolate teapot territory.

Christian.

In article ,
dave writes:
Last night saw the oven/grill catch fire - due frankly, to it needing a clean
and we were in a rush. We don't normally let it get like that but did on this
occasion. Fortunately is extingushed itself in a few seconds but I got to
looking around to see what we needed in the case of a real kitchen fire.

First off, there is polystyrene coving on the ceiling about the cooker (put
there by previous owner) so that'll have to go.

Also, make sure you have a kitchen door which closes. If you give up
trying to extinguish a fire, closing the door as you leave will help
reduce damage to rest of house. Even if you do extinguish a fire,
closing the door will help reduce the stench which will infect the
rest of the house.

Then I though maybe it's worth getting a fire blanket - the kind that lives in a
cylinder and has tapes to put 'n throw.

Fire blanket is the ideal thing to have if you do any frying (shallow
or deep fat). You don't throw it on, you hold it up by the tapes/corners
to shield you as you approch the pan and then lay it over the top.
Practice with it (without a fire) before you need to use it for real.
If you ever get the opportunity to go on a proper fire training course
at work where you will put out such fires for real, leap at the chance.

Finally a fire extingushed. Wifey says she's heard of a new kind available that
turns "fat to soap". Anyone know what it's called and who may sell such a thing?

Not heard of that. (Soap is mostly fat anyway, which is why mice eat it.)
A dry powder extinguisher is the only type I would consider in a kitchen.
Water or CO2 would be dangerous to use and far more likely to make any
kitchen fire worse. However, a fire extinguisher is almost completely
useless unless you have been trained to use it. In untrained hands, they
are often only worth attempting to use if you need to do so to save your
life, e.g. to make an escape route viable -- that seems like an unlikely
scenario in a kitchen.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Tue, 17 May 2005 10:04:13 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Get some training on how to use them. Without training (and usually
with training too), their most effective use is to smash windows.

Aye. If the fire is big enough to warrant an extinguisher you really
don't want to be there. Get Out, Stay Out etc

However they can be useful in the initial stages of a contained
fire, if you know what you're doing and have already initiated the
evacuation.

I wouldn't bother with an extinguisher for a kitchen. A fire blanket
could be useful if some one sets themselves alight. The average
kitchen doesn't have enough space to roll over and over in.

Small pan based fat fires are easyly dealt with by putting the lid on,
turning off the heat and leaving for half an hour to cool. Grill pans
with a *DAMP*, not dripping, tea towel. Remember to half wrap the
towel around your hands/fore arms to protect them as you place it over
the fire. Do this by holding the far corners of the towel and twisting
your hands inwards. Once on leave to cool.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

dave wrote:

Last night saw the oven/grill catch fire - due frankly, to it needing
a clean
and we were in a rush. We don't normally let it get like that but did
on this
occasion. Fortunately is extingushed itself in a few seconds but I
got to
looking around to see what we needed in the case of a real kitchen
fire.

First off, there is polystyrene coving on the ceiling about the
cooker (put
there by previous owner) so that'll have to go.

Then I though maybe it's worth getting a fire blanket - the kind that
lives in a
cylinder and has tapes to put 'n throw.

Maybe fire "proof"/resistant paint on the ceiling there is a good
idea? It's
been painted recently with paint "for use in kitchens" - but I think
that just
means it doesn't flake from heat/condensation etc

Finally a fire extingushed. Wifey says she's heard of a new kind
available that
turns "fat to soap". Anyone know what it's called and who may sell
such a thing?

TIA for enlightenment on any of the above.

ps We do have a fire alarm!


The single most effective thing you can do to reduce fire risk is to
not deep fry in pans, use a plug in fryer.

Fire blanket next.

Intumescent paint is also available if neded.

Someone mentioned 6kg powder for =A340, but I doubt it.


NT

Someone mentioned 6kg powder for £40, but I doubt it.

I posted a link for something close to that (42+VAT).

I did actually pay 40GBP, including VAT, for a 6kg ABC but can't remember
the supplier. I also got a 9L AFFF and fire blanket for very good prices,
too.

Christian.

I posted a link for something close to that (42+VAT).

Whoops. Misquoted myself. It was just under 40+VAT.

Christian.

On Tue, 17 May 2005 10:04:13 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


A good type to have in a kitchen is ABC powder.

No it isn't - it is the perfect way of turning a small fire into a
conflagration. Dry powder will not extinguish burning oil and will
scatter it everywhere.

An alternative is AFFF
foam, although powder is probably superior.

AFFF is far superior to dry powder and the substance in Class F (Oil
Fire) extinguishers. If you had a normal domestic spray bottle with
AFFF in it it would put out a chip pan fire.

Get some training on how to use them. Without training (and usually with
training too), their most effective use is to smash windows.


That will certainly get the fire going!

The best plan
is almost always to get out and leave firefighting to the experts.

The best plan is _always_ to get out - and stay out.

Probably the most important thing to remember about fire safety after smoke
alarms is teaching children an escape plan. The most important element of
this is teaching them not to hide. It is instinctive for young children to
hide in wardrobes in a fire, which is a death sentence. They must be told to
run for a door, and if no doors are available, to go to a room with a
window, shut the door and scream from the window.

Agreed.




--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
....
Fire blanket is the ideal thing to have if you do any frying (shallow
or deep fat). You don't throw it on, you hold it up by the tapes/corners
to shield you as you approch the pan and then lay it over the top.
Practice with it (without a fire) before you need to use it for real.
If you ever get the opportunity to go on a proper fire training course
at work where you will put out such fires for real, leap at the chance.

Also, don't buy a domestic fire blanket. They are invariably too small to
protect you from the fire. Buy a really big one from a commercial supplier.

... However, a fire extinguisher is almost completely
useless unless you have been trained to use it. ...

They are not a great deal more use in the hands of someone trained in their
use, unless the fire is very small.

Colin Bignell

AFFF is far superior to dry powder and the substance in Class F (Oil
Fire) extinguishers. If you had a normal domestic spray bottle with
AFFF in it it would put out a chip pan fire.

That is untrue. AFFF is standard foam and should not really be used on chip
pans. For that you need special wet chemical foam for Class F fires, which
isn't the same as AFFF.

I agree that special wet chemical is the best type for kitchens, as it is
also effective on solid fires. However, it costs over 150 quid a pop, so is
unlikely to make inroads into the domestic market. It only has an 'A' rating
of 13A instead of 27A, so isn't quite so good at solids, though. It has no
'B' rating at all, but this is unlikely to be much of an issue as burning
chip pans come under the 'F' rating, where it excels.

A good type to have in a kitchen is ABC powder.

No it isn't - it is the perfect way of turning a small fire into a
conflagration. Dry powder will not extinguish burning oil and will
scatter it everywhere.

ABC is useful in a kitchen for non-chip pan fires, particularly dustbins and
toasters. As you say, it is very likely to make a chip pan fire worse unless
you're particularly skilled with it. That's what the fire blanket is for.

As we don't even own a chip pan and have had a toaster set itself on fire, I
think I'll keep it around!

Christian.

They are not a great deal more use in the hands of someone trained in
their
use, unless the fire is very small.

Yes. Most fire extinguisher training consists of telling you not to bother!

I certainly see little point in those 1kg things. At least you got a chance
with a 6kg and a dustbin.

Christian.

I agree that special wet chemical is the best type for kitchens, as it is
also effective on solid fires. However, it costs over 150 quid a pop, so
is
unlikely to make inroads into the domestic market.

Actually, the following supplier appears not only substantially cheaper for
the real McCoy 6kg, but seem to sell a small domestic wet chemical version
that looks like an alternative (or supplement) to the fire blanket.

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.p...50 844273aa81

It's only 15 quid (and 600g), but that should be enough to enclose a chip
pan. With a 3A rating, it might even put out a cigarette! However, I'd be
worried about how to apply it without disturbing the pan. There appears to
be no lance from the picture.

Christian.

"dave" wrote in message
...
Last night saw the oven/grill catch fire - due frankly, to it needing a clean
and we were in a rush. We don't normally let it get like that but did on this
occasion. Fortunately is extingushed itself in a few seconds but I got to
looking around to see what we needed in the case of a real kitchen fire.

First off, there is polystyrene coving on the ceiling about the cooker (put
there by previous owner) so that'll have to go.

Then I though maybe it's worth getting a fire blanket - the kind that lives in
a
cylinder and has tapes to put 'n throw.

Maybe fire "proof"/resistant paint on the ceiling there is a good idea? It's
been painted recently with paint "for use in kitchens" - but I think that just
means it doesn't flake from heat/condensation etc

Finally a fire extingushed. Wifey says she's heard of a new kind available
that
turns "fat to soap". Anyone know what it's called and who may sell such a
thing?

TIA for enlightenment on any of the above.

ps We do have a fire alarm!


Take a look at some professional sites for more advice on these matters:

http://www.firekills.gov.uk/

http://www.fire.org.uk/advice/firesafe.htm

Christian McArdle wrote:
Yes. Most fire extinguisher training consists of telling you not to bother!
I certainly see little point in those 1kg things. At least you got a chance
with a 6kg and a dustbin.

When I had a minor blaze in a (very fortunately metal, solid) wastepaper
bucket, I inverted a large frying-pan over it until the fire snuffed
itself out.

I then had to ask my cleaner *very* nicely for a new bucket, and colour
in the white ring in the carpet with magic-marker.

Fortunately this was before the days of smoke detectors, or the Warden
and 349 other students might have found out.

Owain

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:48:00 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

AFFF is far superior to dry powder and the substance in Class F (Oil
Fire) extinguishers. If you had a normal domestic spray bottle with
AFFF in it it would put out a chip pan fire.

That is untrue.

I've done it many times using exactly that - a standard domestic
trigger spray and a 10% AFFF solution.

I've also put out many fuel fires with AFFF. I've walked into a
burning pan with 5,000 gallons of flaming AVTUR carrying an AFFF
spray and walked out again after the supply is exhausted. With dry
powder you can walk in but you have to run out very quickly as the
second your run out of powder the fire flashes back.

AFFF is standard foam and should not really be used on chip
pans.

Protein Foam (derived from ox blood) is usually considered as
standard foam containing only hydrocarbon surfactants. Fluorocarbon
protein foam as used in AFFF is another thing entirely. The
difference is in the "Film Forming" part. AFFF covers a fuel surface
with a barrier preventing reignition.

For that you need special wet chemical foam for Class F fires, which
isn't the same as AFFF.

The so called "wet chemical" extinguishers use Water, Potassium
Acetate (Acetic Acid, as found dilute in Vinegar), Ethylene Gycol
(antifreeze) and CO2 (you can see why they hide the cheap ingredients
given the price charged for some). Although less effective overall
than AFFF they have the distinct advantage in commercial environments
of causing no contamination and usually requiring no cleaning
afterwards. It is this chemical mix which is sometimes referred to
as "turning oil into a soap like substance".

A proper class F extinguisher has a short lance (to keep your hand
out of the fire) and a very slow discharge rate so you don't blow the
oil out of the pan. Strictly speaking class F only refers to
commercial environments - the qualification test is something like a
30kg pan of burning oil which the extinguishing agent must put out,
keep out for somewhere between 15 and 30 mins and in doing so splash
no oil outside the container. You will find some small household
extinguishers loosely referred to as "class F" (because they contain
Acetic Acid/Glycol mix) even though they are far too small to put out
a 3kg never mind 30kg pan of oil.

When demonstrating chip pan fires the party trick was to go up to one
with a tablespoon of AFFF compound and add it to the blazing pan.
The fire went out within seconds. The only practical disadvantage of
this technique was the need to be wearing full crash gear with fire
resistant suit gauntlets and full face helmet to get the spoon over
the pan - not something most people use when cooking :-).

I agree that special wet chemical is the best type for kitchens, as it is
also effective on solid fires. However, it costs over 150 quid a pop, so is
unlikely to make inroads into the domestic market.

"Wet chemical" is cheap, Acetic Acid and Glycol are not exactly
expensive chemicals. Manufacturers don't use the correct name so they
can vastly overprice Class F extinguishers.

ABC is useful in a kitchen for non-chip pan fires, particularly dustbins and
toasters. As you say, it is very likely to make a chip pan fire worse unless
you're particularly skilled with it.

And that is why you should have no fire extinguisher in a kitchen. A
chip pan fire is spectacular and if there is an extinguisher handy
someone will try to use it with lethal results. I've seen a number
of people badly burned using extinguishers on domestic chip pan fires
and not a single case where they did any good.

Get out quickly - stay out.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:57:31 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


Actually, the following supplier appears not only substantially cheaper for
the real McCoy 6kg, but seem to sell a small domestic wet chemical version
that looks like an alternative (or supplement) to the fire blanket.

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.p...50 844273aa81

It's only 15 quid

It is also AFFF :-)

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

A proper class F extinguisher has a short lance (to keep your hand
out of the fire) and a very slow discharge rate so you don't blow the
oil out of the pan.

So using a standard AFFF extinguisher sans lance, how do you stop it
splashing the pan? I would have thought that it would require considerable
skill. The AFFF types I've used seemed to have a very rapid discharge rate
that I would be loath to use on a chip pan.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
A proper class F extinguisher has a short lance (to keep your hand
out of the fire) and a very slow discharge rate so you don't blow the
oil out of the pan.

So using a standard AFFF extinguisher sans lance, how do you stop it
splashing the pan? I would have thought that it would require considerable
skill. The AFFF types I've used seemed to have a very rapid discharge rate
that I would be loath to use on a chip pan.

Christian.



That's where the fire blanket come in very handy, eh? :-)

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:20:27 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

To prevent chip pan fires use an electric deep frier.

Or an induction hob AIUI.

cheers,
Pete.

You can use dry powder or foam for a diddy fire like that,if the blast
from the propellant is a problem you aren't using it right.Both work in
the same way as the fire blanket,suffocation with powder chucking a bit
of chemical in too, so you're not aiming at the base of the fire like
you would with a water or a co2.So if you're chucking fat everywhere
you're making a bit of a pigs ear of it.

Having said that,if it's big enough that you're not confident to tackle
it with a damp tea towel my advice would be to isolate the heat if
possible,shut your door and get out.

Forget the paint,your platerboard ceiling will give you enough
protection,but if you've got breaks in it ie downlighters then you
should get some of the hoods that mount above them in the void to
prevent invisible fire spread......'it's in the walls!'

Pete C wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:20:27 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

To prevent chip pan fires use an electric deep frier.

Or an induction hob AIUI.

I know what they are but how can an induction hob prevent chip pan
fires?


--

Martin Evans wrote:
Pete C wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:20:27 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

To prevent chip pan fires use an electric deep frier.

Or an induction hob AIUI.

I know what they are but how can an induction hob prevent chip pan
fires?

No ready ignition source.
So, it can get really, really hot and start boiling, and splashing over
onto stuff, before being set off by static or something.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:50:52 +0100, Martin Evans
wrote:

Pete C wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:20:27 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

To prevent chip pan fires use an electric deep frier.

Or an induction hob AIUI.

I know what they are but how can an induction hob prevent chip pan
fires?

Hi,

Some of them set the power output by sensing the pan temperature,
which makes it easier to stop the pan overheating.

Not sure if they all do, would be useful as putting full power into an
small empty pan could be interesting.

Any induction hob owners out there can comment?

cheers,
Pete.