In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
Germs, yes, but there might be other inorganic substances in the water
that wouldn't be good for you, such as very high levels of iron from
the plumbing.

Iron? Pretty well all domestic plumbing in the UK is copper plastic or
lead. Iron barrel is virtually unheard of. Header tanks were steel, but
galvanised. If the zinc has gone the tank won't last much longer.

--
*Always drink upstream from the herd *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05 May 2006, Farooq wrote:

David P wrote:
I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from
the hot tap?

My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this
feeds into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't
look wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I
BOILED the water then presumably I will kill the germs.

Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from
the hot tap? Maybe there are dangerous minerals and some other
chemicals found in the hot water system which are unsafe?



The germs would do low harm than the rust that might be coming from
the tank or the hot water cylinder. Chances of "toxic" mineral are
perhaps low since the main water supply is supposed to be quite
clean.


What about chemicals/metals/minerals getting into the water from
parts of the hot water system?

Perhaps the heat makes difference or perhaps the types of metal used
in boilers and their pipe joints makes a difference?

Do micro-leaks occur from the heating circuit (which passes through
the boiler's heat exchanger) into the hot water used for washing?

On 05 May 2006, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com
wrote:

A kettle does not boil water long enough to disinfect it. Why not
put less water in the kettle to begin with? If you do this
regularly, you should have a fair idea of how much water you will
need.

Colin Bignell



Seems that there is some debate out there about the period to boil
for.

This makes a reference to 5 minutes and 1 minute.
http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/water.html

This seesm to back it up
http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/dw/boil_...dures_cons.asp

But others disagree
http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/...ea59e/ch23.htm

We need to be careful about "sterilise" which is killing all germs
and is not needed here and "disinfect" which is killing sufficient
germs so that the remainder is not a problem.

On 06 May 2006, The Natural wrote:

Raising the water to 60 C kills about 95% of the bugs in seconds.
Raising it to 100C kills about 99.999% in about 5 seconds, and
99.99999% in 5 minutes.



ISTR from my schooldays that altitude may mean that 100 C may not be
achievable.

Is this a factor at typical UK altitudes? (Without going hald way up
some buge hill.)

On 06 May 2006, Dave
wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:34:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


|Raising the water to 60 C kills about 95% of the bugs in seconds.

That temperature is actually *82* deg C to kill food poisoning bugs
Some food poisoning bugs breed nicely below 64 deg C


I think amino-acids/proteins get denatured (and becoma deformed beyond
use) at about 62 degrees.

I thought that was the basis for saying that food (eggs, meat, etc) must
be cooked over approx 62 C.

But what is the extra 20 degrees to 84 C for?

On 05 May 2006, Dave
wrote:


You are IMO being over cautious. We kill 10 people per day on the
roads, I have never heard of anyone dieing from contaminated water
in the UK after WWII. The severity of all risks should be judged
on past death/illness rates.

I don't I judge the safety of drinking water from the hot system by
death or not.

If I go partly blind then that is bad enough, thank you.

As you rightly say "illness" is also a factor.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:23:17 +0100, David P wrote:

|On 05 May 2006, Farooq wrote:

| The germs would do low harm than the rust that might be coming from
| the tank or the hot water cylinder. Chances of "toxic" mineral are
| perhaps low since the main water supply is supposed to be quite
| clean.
|
|
|What about chemicals/metals/minerals getting into the water from
|parts of the hot water system?

The risks are very low

|Perhaps the heat makes difference or perhaps the types of metal used
|in boilers and their pipe joints makes a difference?

The amount of lead is very low even in old joints.
Worth the government thinking about in trying to improve public health in
general, by no way is an individual going to notice anything

|Do micro-leaks occur from the heating circuit (which passes through
|the boiler's heat exchanger) into the hot water used for washing?

Probably but they are not worth bothering about.

Life is all about taking risks, doing anything about them would cost more
than any possible benefit you gain.
--
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method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On 05 May 2006, wrote:

Since the energy required to sterilise the gunky water from your hot
tap is way more than that required to boil the purer water from the
cold tap why don't you anticipate your future requirement for a coffee
and boil potable cold water in the first place?


Yes, this is a good comparison. And would add the extra wait to boil
the hot water to be safe seems such that I could have boiled half a
litre of fresh water in the kettle!

However there are some who say that 1 minute of boing is enough.

This makes a reference to 5 minutes and 1 minute.
http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/water.html

This seesm to back it up
http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/dw/boil_...dures_cons.asp

But others disagree
http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/...ea59e/ch23.htm

On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:40:58 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
|wrote:
|
|David P wrote:
| I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
| hot tap?
|
| My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
| into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
| wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
| water then presumably I will kill the germs.
|
| Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
| hot tap?
|
|Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|outflow of a chemical company.
|
|
|Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|invertebrates,......

Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

In article ,
David P wrote:
The germs would do low harm than the rust that might be coming from
the tank or the hot water cylinder. Chances of "toxic" mineral are
perhaps low since the main water supply is supposed to be quite
clean.


What about chemicals/metals/minerals getting into the water from
parts of the hot water system?

From copper?

Perhaps the heat makes difference or perhaps the types of metal used
in boilers and their pipe joints makes a difference?

After all these years I'd have thought the evidence would be there if it
happened.

Do micro-leaks occur from the heating circuit (which passes through
the boiler's heat exchanger) into the hot water used for washing?

Ah. Perhaps a good idea to avoid a combi, then?

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:55:02 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

|In article ,
| Mxsmanic wrote:
| Germs, yes, but there might be other inorganic substances in the water
| that wouldn't be good for you, such as very high levels of iron from
| the plumbing.
|
|Iron? Pretty well all domestic plumbing in the UK is copper plastic or
|lead. Iron barrel is virtually unheard of. Header tanks were steel, but
|galvanised. If the zinc has gone the tank won't last much longer.

We still have lots of Victorian cast iron pipes under the roads, but small
amounts of iron in water causes no problems whatsoever. Look down holes
in the road, you will soon see them.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:40:58 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
|wrote:
|
|David P wrote:
| I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
| hot tap?
|
| My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
| into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
| wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
| water then presumably I will kill the germs.
|
| Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
| hot tap?
|
|Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|outflow of a chemical company.
|
|
|Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|invertebrates,......

Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.

I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
to do it for me.


--

..andy

On 06 May 2006, Dave Plowman wrote:

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
FFS, how often do people have to be told the tank should have an
approved cover and venting to prevent this?

How about tanks which were fitted before this regulation was
introduced, which was in ????. Was the regulation retrospective?
Who went round providing and fitting said covers?

If you are worried about drinking water from a graveyard, it's up
to you to make the tank safe. And I'll bet there are very few old
galvanised domestic tanks left in service - they'd be 30+ years
old.



Hoi you!

Mine certainly is. And I am the OP.

On 06 May 2006, Dave Plowman wrote:

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
Germs, yes, but there might be other inorganic substances in the
water that wouldn't be good for you, such as very high levels of
iron from the plumbing.

Iron? Pretty well all domestic plumbing in the UK is copper plastic
or lead. Iron barrel is virtually unheard of. Header tanks were
steel, but galvanised. If the zinc has gone the tank won't last
much longer.


I don't know what iron barrel is but some of the feed pipes from the
rising main into the roofspace look as if they might be made of steel.

The building is about 40 years old.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"Cicero" wrote in message
. uk...
"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
snipped

A kettle does not boil water long enough to disinfect it. Why not put
less
water in the kettle to begin with? If you do this regularly, you should
have
a fair idea of how much water you will need.

Colin Bignell


===============================
Just to be clear.....

I assume that you mean a kettle with an automatic switch which switches
off
after a few seconds of boiling. Other non-automatic kettles can surely
boil for the 5 minute period mentioned by another poster.

Indeed, but non-electric kettles are very much in the minority and I
wonder whether one with an external heat source would have enough water
left to make a cup of coffee after filling the bowl, then boiling for
another five minutes.

Colin Bignell
Raising the water to 60 C kills about 95% of the bugs in seconds. Raising
it to 100C kills about 99.999% in about 5 seconds, and 99.99999% in 5
minutes.

As I said earlier, five minutes at boiling point is the minimum recommended
by the WHO guide to disinfection techniques.

If your immune system can't cope with the odd bug, you had better not go
outside at all.

A simplistic view, as water borne diseases are generally much more
infectious than those you will meet by simply walking outside.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:33:09 +0100, David P wrote:

|On 06 May 2006, Dave
|wrote:
|
| On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:34:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
| wrote:
|
|
||Raising the water to 60 C kills about 95% of the bugs in seconds.
|
| That temperature is actually *82* deg C to kill food poisoning bugs
| Some food poisoning bugs breed nicely below 64 deg C
|
|
|I think amino-acids/proteins get denatured (and becoma deformed beyond
|use) at about 62 degrees.
|
|I thought that was the basis for saying that food (eggs, meat, etc) must
|be cooked over approx 62 C.
|
|But what is the extra 20 degrees to 84 C for?

Actually 82 deg C.

That is the recommended temperature for killing food poisoning bugs for
food served to the public. Some bacteria found in hot springs will
survive more than 100 deg C (water laden with salts) but these do no harm.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:03:19 +0100, David P
wrote:

|On 06 May 2006, Dave Plowman wrote:
|
| In article ,
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| FFS, how often do people have to be told the tank should have an
| approved cover and venting to prevent this?
|
| How about tanks which were fitted before this regulation was
| introduced, which was in ????. Was the regulation retrospective?
| Who went round providing and fitting said covers?
|
| If you are worried about drinking water from a graveyard, it's up
| to you to make the tank safe. And I'll bet there are very few old
| galvanised domestic tanks left in service - they'd be 30+ years
| old.
|
|
|
|Hoi you!
|
|Mine certainly is. And I am the OP.

Then put replacing the tank of the "to do sometime list"
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

"David P" wrote in message
...
On 05 May 2006, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com
wrote:

A kettle does not boil water long enough to disinfect it. Why not
put less water in the kettle to begin with? If you do this
regularly, you should have a fair idea of how much water you will
need.

Colin Bignell



Seems that there is some debate out there about the period to boil
for.

This makes a reference to 5 minutes and 1 minute.
http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/water.html

This seesm to back it up
http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/dw/boil_...dures_cons.asp

But others disagree
http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/...ea59e/ch23.htm

The WHO guidelines to disinfection techniques recommend a minimum of five
minutes.

We need to be careful about "sterilise" which is killing all germs
and is not needed here and "disinfect" which is killing sufficient
germs so that the remainder is not a problem.

Even sterilisation does not guarantee to kill all germs. It only gives a
known probability of doing so, if the initial bioburden is below a set
level.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:00:29 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
|
|On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:40:58 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
|
||On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
||wrote:
||
||David P wrote:
|| I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
|| hot tap?
||
|| My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
|| into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
|| wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
|| water then presumably I will kill the germs.
||
|| Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
|| hot tap?
||
||Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
||outflow of a chemical company.
||
||
||Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
||invertebrates,......
|
|Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
|tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.
|
|I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
|chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
|to do it for me.

You prefer to drink bottle water complete with bacteria, and leachate from
the plastic bottle. Bottled water *usually* contains fewer bacteria than
the legal limit.

The only Life without risk is death.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:05:48 +0100, David P wrote:

|On 06 May 2006, Dave Plowman wrote:
|
| In article ,
| Mxsmanic wrote:
| Germs, yes, but there might be other inorganic substances in the
| water that wouldn't be good for you, such as very high levels of
| iron from the plumbing.
|
| Iron? Pretty well all domestic plumbing in the UK is copper plastic
| or lead. Iron barrel is virtually unheard of. Header tanks were
| steel, but galvanised. If the zinc has gone the tank won't last
| much longer.
|
|
|I don't know what iron barrel is but some of the feed pipes from the
|rising main into the roofspace look as if they might be made of steel.
|
|The building is about 40 years old.

Then put replacing the pipes on the "to do sometime list"
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

In article ,
David P wrote:
I thought that was the basis for saying that food (eggs, meat, etc) must
be cooked over approx 62 C.

A common temperature for re-heating partially cooked chilled stuff is 190C
for say maybe 20 minutes in an oven. And any liquid in the foodstuff comes
out boiling. I don't think 62 C is anything like enough. Could be wrong,
though. ;-)

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|Iron? Pretty well all domestic plumbing in the UK is copper plastic or
|lead. Iron barrel is virtually unheard of. Header tanks were steel, but
|galvanised. If the zinc has gone the tank won't last much longer.

We still have lots of Victorian cast iron pipes under the roads, but
small amounts of iron in water causes no problems whatsoever. Look
down holes in the road, you will soon see them.

Indeed. But the text was about hot water taking up minerals, etc. I
snipped too much.

--
*Xerox and Wurlitzer will merge to market reproductive organs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
|Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|outflow of a chemical company.
|
|
|Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|invertebrates,......

Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.

I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
to do it for me.

Things like chlorine are added to make the water safe to drink. Don't
think this could be left to the end user. Fluoride is, of course, a
different matter, but does occur naturally in some supplies.

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David P wrote:
If you are worried about drinking water from a graveyard, it's up
to you to make the tank safe. And I'll bet there are very few old
galvanised domestic tanks left in service - they'd be 30+ years
old.

Hoi you!

Mine certainly is. And I am the OP.

;-)

I'd put it high up on 'the DIY list of things to do' to replace it. A
burst header tank makes a lot of mess...

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
FFS, how often do people have to be told the tank should have an
approved cover and venting to prevent this?

How about tanks which were fitted before this regulation was introduced,
which was in ????. Was the regulation retrospective? Who went round
providing and fitting said covers?

If you are worried about drinking water from a graveyard, it's up to you
to make the tank safe. And I'll bet there are very few old galvanised
domestic tanks left in service - they'd be 30+ years old.

As kids, we drank water from a tap that was running red.

We fished the decayed crow out some weeks later.

After the water color had cleared up.

Ive been dead for years, as a result of that ;-)

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:34:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


|Raising the water to 60 C kills about 95% of the bugs in seconds.

That temperature is actually *82* deg C to kill food poisoning bugs
Some food poisoning bugs breed nicely below 64 deg C

|Raising it to 100C kills about 99.999% in about 5 seconds, and 99.99999%
|in 5 minutes.




I didn't say just food poisoning bugs did I?

Anyway, boiling water is 100C, plus or minus.., and kills just about any
pathogen instantly.

Sure, one or two slip through the net, but they are a minority compared
to whats on your hands anyway probably.

Mxsmanic wrote:
David P writes:

I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
hot tap?

My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
water then presumably I will kill the germs.

Germs, yes, but there might be other inorganic substances in the water
that wouldn't be good for you, such as very high levels of iron from
the plumbing.

Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
hot tap? Maybe there are dangerous minerals and some other
chemicals found in the hot water system which are unsafe?

Possibly metals or minerals dissolved in the water that you probably
don't want to ingest.

Is the caution about this overstated?

I don't think so. Especially in homes that have less than brand-new
plumbing, the water that comes out of the hot tap can be awash in
inorganic material. It won't make you sick in the way that water
contaminated with bacteria would, but it may contain enough junk to
make you sick in other ways (lead poisoning, iron poisoning, etc.).

A single drink probably wouldn't make any difference, but you would
not want to make a habit of it.

I really cannot believe this. Just exactly how is all the water you
drink stored anyway, and transported to you? In containers of one sort
or another made of all sorts of things. Not to mention having been
filtered through layers of nasty organic mud, rabbit poo, fox poo dead
sheep and decaying vegetation before getting into dreadful toxic chalky
aquifers..being pumped through iron pumps up rusty steel pipes into
algae infested water towers, before getting a dose of toxic chlorine to
kill the worst of the bugs and shoved down yet more rusty leaking
victorian iron pipes to your shiny new MDPE pipe, copper pipe and
finally the cold water tap.

Honestly, is your roof tank any different at all?

It is an observed fact that the population of this country are not all
dying of cholera, staphylcoccus, streptococcus and E colii, and didn';t
die before we had mains water, as long as they boiled the kettle or
added a bit of alcohol for their 'small beer'

And if you think bottled or fltered water is much better, think again...

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

David P wrote:
I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
hot tap?

My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
water then presumably I will kill the germs.

Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
hot tap?
Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
outflow of a chemical company.


Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
invertebrates,......



Good idea, as long as its not too much.

I cannot believe the current generation of namby pambies.

I saw that ad on TV 'soon you will protect your eyes from daylight, JUST
LIKE YOU PROTECT YOUR SKIN!!!'

Blimey. I have never protected my skin except in tropical places or the
beach. And as for EYES? PROTECTING YOUR EYES from a bright day..?
I wear shades occasionally because it gets to bright to see clearly
thats all.

Yet the default assumption of that advert is that no one dares go
outside their house without slapping on suncreanm, sticking on a pair of
dark glasses, and probably wearing a gas mask to filter out the real world.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:40:58 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
|wrote:
|
|David P wrote:
| I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
| hot tap?
|
| My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
| into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
| wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
| water then presumably I will kill the germs.
|
| Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
| hot tap?
|
|Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|outflow of a chemical company.
|
|
|Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|invertebrates,......

Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.

Ditto bacteria, algae, amoeba, and fungi.

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:40:58 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
|wrote:
|
|David P wrote:
| I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
| hot tap?
|
| My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
| into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
| wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
| water then presumably I will kill the germs.
|
| Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
| hot tap?
|
|Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|outflow of a chemical company.
|
|
|Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|invertebrates,......

Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.

I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
to do it for me.


Then you are in for a hard time.


Unless you intend to synthesise pure water by electrolysis. And
retropsectivly add whatever minerals and organics you decide you want.

Otherwise you get what you are given in whatever form you purchase it,
whether from a water company or Pepsi ...

Or is it just a knee jerk reaction to 'men in white coats' adding
something rather than a dead sheep wedged in a stone wall?

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"Cicero" wrote in message
. uk...
"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
snipped

A kettle does not boil water long enough to disinfect it. Why not put
less
water in the kettle to begin with? If you do this regularly, you should
have
a fair idea of how much water you will need.

Colin Bignell


===============================
Just to be clear.....

I assume that you mean a kettle with an automatic switch which switches
off
after a few seconds of boiling. Other non-automatic kettles can surely
boil for the 5 minute period mentioned by another poster.
Indeed, but non-electric kettles are very much in the minority and I
wonder whether one with an external heat source would have enough water
left to make a cup of coffee after filling the bowl, then boiling for
another five minutes.

Colin Bignell
Raising the water to 60 C kills about 95% of the bugs in seconds. Raising
it to 100C kills about 99.999% in about 5 seconds, and 99.99999% in 5
minutes.

As I said earlier, five minutes at boiling point is the minimum recommended
by the WHO guide to disinfection techniques.

If your immune system can't cope with the odd bug, you had better not go
outside at all.

A simplistic view, as water borne diseases are generally much more
infectious than those you will meet by simply walking outside.


No, they are exactly the same bugs in general.

They tend not to get in the guts as easily, nor have such a rich amount
of material to feed on, in your lungs and on your hands, thats all.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:47:16 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

|In article ,
| David P wrote:
| I thought that was the basis for saying that food (eggs, meat, etc) must
| be cooked over approx 62 C.

62 deg C is definitely too low.

|A common temperature for re-heating partially cooked chilled stuff is 190C
|for say maybe 20 minutes in an oven. And any liquid in the foodstuff comes
|out boiling. I don't think 62 C is anything like enough. Could be wrong,
|though. ;-)


That is the temperature of the *oven* not final temperature of the centre
of the *food*. The temperature of the *edge* of the food is not the
temperature at the center of the food. Digital food thermometers with a
stainless steel probe are now quite cheap and are IMO a good investment for
amateur cooks. The temperature at the centre of reheated food should be
72 deg C or 84 deg C depending on which book you read.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:26:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:00:29 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop

||Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
||outflow of a chemical company.
||
||
||Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
||invertebrates,......
|
|Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
|tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.
|
|I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
|chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
|to do it for me.

You prefer to drink bottle water complete with bacteria, and leachate from
the plastic bottle. Bottled water *usually* contains fewer bacteria than
the legal limit.

I don't buy water in plastic bottles, only glass.

Given a choice between minimal levels of bacteria which are unlikely
to do anything, but in a worse scenario will be handled by the immune
system, vs. chemical additives which may well be cumulative and not
eliminated by the body, then bacteria win every time.




The only Life without risk is death.

Of course, so why spoil it with foul tasting tap water?


--

..andy

On Sat, 06 May 2006 12:07:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

|It is an observed fact that the population of this country are not all
|dying of cholera, staphylcoccus, streptococcus and E colii, and didn';t
|die before we had mains water, as long as they boiled the kettle or
|added a bit of alcohol for their 'small beer'

Not all but a significant number die of food poisoning, Remember the
Scottish case.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 12:11:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

David P wrote:
I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
hot tap?

My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
water then presumably I will kill the germs.

Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
hot tap?
Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
outflow of a chemical company.


Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
invertebrates,......



Good idea, as long as its not too much.

Fine, but who makes that decision? I prefer to make my own.


I cannot believe the current generation of namby pambies.

I saw that ad on TV 'soon you will protect your eyes from daylight, JUST
LIKE YOU PROTECT YOUR SKIN!!!'

Adverts building on adverts are nothing new.


Blimey. I have never protected my skin except in tropical places or the
beach.

That's common sense. OTOH, when you have seen somebody with the
effects of maligant melanoma, you do consider when it is reasonable
and when not to do that.

And as for EYES? PROTECTING YOUR EYES from a bright day..?
I wear shades occasionally because it gets to bright to see clearly
thats all.

Yet the default assumption of that advert is that no one dares go
outside their house without slapping on suncreanm, sticking on a pair of
dark glasses, and probably wearing a gas mask to filter out the real world.


I wonder if there is something that will filter the emetic stench of
oilseed rape and privet.


--

..andy

David Hansen writes:

Where do you think these very high levels of iron will come from?

Iron in surfaces that are in contact with the water.

If the water in my water heater stands for a long period, it looks a
bit rusty the next time I take water from it, and I presume that this
is iron oxide, since that's what it looks like.

I doubt if many houses have galvanised iron water tanks these days, or
for at least a decade. New work since the late 1960s has involved
plastic tanks.

I don't know exactly what installations may be used. I was simply
going on the principle that hot water is a much better solvent than
cold water, and if it stands under pressure for a time, it might have
quite a bit of junk in it.

Other than the mains supply, where do these metals or minerals come
from?

The supply plumbing would be sufficient to provide them.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

The Natural Philosopher writes:

I really cannot believe this. Just exactly how is all the water you
drink stored anyway, and transported to you?

Hot water sits for long periods in a very old tank under pressure. If
I don't use it regularly it comes out a bit rusty looking. My guess
is that what looks like rust probably _is_ rust, and is thus a hefty
dose of iron. For that reason, I probably wouldn't drink it. And I
don't know what else is dissolved in it.

In the case of cold water, if I haven't taken any in a while I let it
run for a minute. The building is old and I don't know what the
plumbing is made of. Taking a drink immediately from the tap
sometimes reveals a metallic taste.

Honestly, is your roof tank any different at all?

My hot water tank is in the bathroom. The water is electrically
heated.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 12:30:00 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:26:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
|
|On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:00:29 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
|
||On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
|
|||Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|||outflow of a chemical company.
|||
|||
|||Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|||invertebrates,......
||
||Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
||tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.
||
||I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
||chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
||to do it for me.
|
|You prefer to drink bottle water complete with bacteria, and leachate from
|the plastic bottle. Bottled water *usually* contains fewer bacteria than
|the legal limit.
|
|I don't buy water in plastic bottles, only glass.

Wish I had that much cash :-(

|The only Life without risk is death.
|
|Of course, so why spoil it with foul tasting tap water?

Our tap water straight off the Yorkshire peat moors tastes fine.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 12:17:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 09:40:58 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 00:28:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
|wrote:
|
|David P wrote:
| I am in the UK. Is it generally safe to drink BOILED water from the
| hot tap?
|
| My hot water comes from a tank or cistern in the loft and this feeds
| into a hot water cylinder which is in the house. It doesn't look
| wonderful inside that tank in the loft but I reckon if I BOILED the
| water then presumably I will kill the germs.
|
| Is there another reason why I should not drink boiled water from the
| hot tap?
|
|Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|outflow of a chemical company.
|
|
|Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|invertebrates,......

Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.

I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
to do it for me.


Then you are in for a hard time.

Not really. It's a matter of choice.



Unless you intend to synthesise pure water by electrolysis. And
retropsectivly add whatever minerals and organics you decide you want.

Otherwise you get what you are given in whatever form you purchase it,
whether from a water company or Pepsi ...

The point is that I can choose from among thousands of different types
of bottled water from all over Europe. The multinationals such as
Pepsi, Coke and Diageo do have an interest in some of the larger
producers of course.

However, there are many independent producers and I can select based
on different chemical compositions, but more importantly flavour and
hence suitability with different foods.




Or is it just a knee jerk reaction to 'men in white coats' adding
something rather than a dead sheep wedged in a stone wall?

I don't have knee jerk reactions. Only carefully considered ones.



--

..andy

On Sat, 06 May 2006 13:06:29 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 12:30:00 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:26:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
|
|On Sat, 06 May 2006 11:00:29 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
|
||On Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42:23 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
|
|||Its generally safe to drink boiled water from anywhere, apart from the
|||outflow of a chemical company.
|||
|||
|||Such as those who add chlorine, fluorides, chemicals to kill
|||invertebrates,......
||
||Ingestion of chemicals is all about the dose, We can happily ingest a
||tiny amount of those without *any* ill effects.
||
||I would prefer not to though, and would also prefer to select the
||chemical content of what I drink rather than allowing a water company
||to do it for me.
|
|You prefer to drink bottle water complete with bacteria, and leachate from
|the plastic bottle. Bottled water *usually* contains fewer bacteria than
|the legal limit.
|
|I don't buy water in plastic bottles, only glass.

Wish I had that much cash :-(

That depends on where you shop.




|The only Life without risk is death.
|
|Of course, so why spoil it with foul tasting tap water?

Our tap water straight off the Yorkshire peat moors tastes fine.

I'm sure that that's true. Do they have to add calcium salts to
buffer it back up to a reasonably pH neutral level?




--

..andy