http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:35:57 GMT, Guy King
wrote:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish,

I've dealt with Irish (Northern) plumbers and have _never_ met such a
cack-handed bunch of bodge merchants in my life. Except perhaps my
sister-in-law's plasterers, who managed to burn the cavity wall
insulation out - by lighting a fire to keep warm, before the fireplace
hearth was installed or the flue properly lined. We got off lightly,
with merely the toilet cistern overflow that disappeared into an
internal wall, the bath that had to be bailed through the window to
empty it (and was self-filling in heavy rain) and of course the
infamous Night of the Zombie Septic Tank.

IMHE, it's down to the blatant nepotism that's rife in NI. "Ach, wee
Jimmy will see you right" usually means "My idiot nephew Jimmy needs the
work, as he's an inbred halfwit with vestigial gills. However we all
drink at the same rugby club, and it's not either of us who has to live
there afterwards".

Oh, and they're not a patch on landfill contractors who turned our
garden into an asbestos waste tip. Still, there was a drink in it for
the right people, so that's alright then.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:35:57 +0000, Guy King wrote:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

The "Cistern overflow pipe and vent over flue" also shows the flue being
unacceptably close to an air vent.

Overall interesting, but sad that the text is as shoddy in places as
the work it illustrates.

In message , John Stumbles
writes
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:35:57 +0000, Guy King wrote:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

The "Cistern overflow pipe and vent over flue" also shows the flue being
unacceptably close to an air vent.

Overall interesting, but sad that the text is as shoddy in places as
the work it illustrates.

I wonder what Jewish plumbing's like

--
geoff

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:35:57 GMT, Guy King
wrote:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?
--
Chris Cowley

The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Well, certainly not on the thread of compression fittings. A compression
joint works with a seal between the fitting and olive and between the olive
and the pipe. These are metal to metal joints. Some people wrap the olive in
PTFE, but this is unnecessary and could even cause leakages in the future if
the PTFE degrades and there is no actual metal to metal seal.

The thread on a compression joint is not part of the water seal and should
not have PTFE applied. The sign of a professionally done compression joint
is the use of no PTFE at all.

PTFE is used on BSP fittings usually with a jointing compound. Examples are
radiator tails and outside taps, where the thread IS part of the water seal.

Christian.

The message
from Chris Cowley contains these words:

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Well, I've never used it on compresion fittings - I've always used it on
taper-threaded iron fittings.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Chris Cowley wrote:

The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Its real purpose is when you have to make a joint that requires a seal
to be made on the threaded part of a connection.

A compression fitting makes a seal between the pipe and casing by use of
the olive - the threaded part itself does not even come into contact
with the water.

(In spite of it not being required, I personally still like a couple of
turns on the thread of compression fittings since it lubricates the
joint a little making it easier to do up tight, and disassemble later if
required).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , John Stumbles
writes
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:35:57 +0000, Guy King wrote:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

The "Cistern overflow pipe and vent over flue" also shows the flue being
unacceptably close to an air vent.

Overall interesting, but sad that the text is as shoddy in places as
the work it illustrates.

I wonder what Jewish plumbing's like

The same, but it says that way for longer as they are into their 20th
estimate.

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

I have nothing like that all in one place. How about in Poland?

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

That is the place, on taper threads. A light smear of paste is all that is
required on a compression joint.

I don't even do that - just a smear of copper grease to stop it getting
stuck later.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:35:42 +0000, Christian McArdle wrote:

PTFE is used on BSP fittings usually with a jointing compound. Examples
are radiator tails and outside taps, where the thread IS part of the
water seal.

You mean without, Shirley?

PTFE tape OR jointing compound (e.g. Boss White) poss. with hemp.

PTFE is used on BSP fittings usually with a jointing compound. Examples
are radiator tails and outside taps, where the thread IS part of the
water seal.

You mean without, Shirley?

PTFE tape OR jointing compound (e.g. Boss White) poss. with hemp.

Nah, with. I smother the PTFE in Fernox LS-X. Works every time. Never once a
leak, even on parallel BSP.

I see PTFE as the hemp replacement and LS-X as the Boss White replacement.

Christian.

Chris Cowley wrote:
The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Things such as radiator tails. Taper threads. Gland packing,
possibly. Not in compression fittings.

I don't even do that - just a smear of copper grease to stop it getting
stuck later.

Not me. I only ever use the pipe and the compression joint. Nothing else at
all. No tape, no gunk.

Christian.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:35:42 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Well, certainly not on the thread of compression fittings. A compression
joint works with a seal between the fitting and olive and between the olive
and the pipe. These are metal to metal joints.

[snip]

Oh right. I never knew - I've always used PTFE on compression threads as
lots of sources seem to say it should be used (e.g. various DIY books,
http://www.diydata.com/techniques/pl...ompression.htm
).

I guess I can save myself a few pennies by stopping using it, then!

Cheers,
--
Chris Cowley

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:44:41 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote:

Oh right. I never knew - I've always used PTFE on compression threads as
lots of sources seem to say it should be used (e.g. various DIY books,
http://www.diydata.com/techniques/pl...ompression.htm
).

I guess I can save myself a few pennies by stopping using it, then!

I always use it:

1. It ensures the thread doesn't seize and the joint can be
tightened/dismantled easily at a later date.

2. It seals the thread. This can prevent a leak should any water find
it's way between the outside of the olive and the main body of the
joint. I agree that in theory a compression joint should be perfectly
machined but in a lot of cases they aren't.

sponix

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:49:23 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Chris Cowley wrote:

The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Its real purpose is when you have to make a joint that requires a seal
to be made on the threaded part of a connection.

A compression fitting makes a seal between the pipe and casing by use of
the olive - the threaded part itself does not even come into contact
with the water.

...in Theory. Of the olive seat/olive is less than perfect then water
can seep past.

sponix

Andy Dingley wrote:
Guy King wrote:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish,

I've dealt with Irish (Northern) plumbers and have _never_ met such a
cack-handed bunch of bodge merchants in my life.

RACIST !!!!

Well, if the Jews and pikeys are getting some air cover ... ;-)

P.

Christian McArdle wrote:
I don't even do that - just a smear of copper grease to stop it getting
stuck later.

Not me. I only ever use the pipe and the compression joint. Nothing else at
all. No tape, no gunk.

Indeed.

Cheers,

Paul.

Guy King wrote:
Chris Cowley csaid

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Well, I've never used it on compresion fittings - I've always used it on
taper-threaded iron fittings.

Or on BSP female tees with parallel threads, again for iron elbows etc.

Wall plate elbows ...

Spotting a pattern here, where the thread is involved in the seal.

P.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
2. It seals the thread. This can prevent a leak should any water find
it's way between the outside of the olive and the main body of the
joint. I agree that in theory a compression joint should be perfectly
machined but in a lot of cases they aren't.

I'd rather know about it and discard the fitting (I've not come across one
yet).

If you seal the threads, then you won't know you've got a dud. At least
not
until a few weeks/years later.

I assume you are both on about wrapping PTFE on the thread and nut of a
compression fitting. That seals sweet FA. Thee is a gap between the nut and
the pipe. What is can do is stop the nut from running up to the olive
fully. You always know a DIYer when PTFE is used on compression/copper pipe
joints.

"Sponix" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:49:23 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Chris Cowley wrote:

The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Its real purpose is when you have to make a joint that requires a seal
to be made on the threaded part of a connection.

A compression fitting makes a seal between the pipe and casing by use of
the olive - the threaded part itself does not even come into contact
with the water.

..in Theory.

In practice as well.

Of the olive seat/olive is less than perfect then water
can seep past.

The water will work its way out via the gap between the nut and pipe. Look
at a fitting. take it apart.

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Chris Cowley wrote:
The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?

Not at all, unless using plastic pipe.

Things such as radiator tails.

Yes, on BSP taper threads

Taper threads.

Yes, on BSP taper threads

Gland packing,

No.

Not in compression fittings.

See above.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Guy King
saying something like:

http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/bm.htm

Some may have seen this before - and of course it's not restricted to
the Irish, I've seen stuff like this in the UK often enough.

Indeed. I've seen crap work all over the British Isles.



This bit rings very true...

"A reasonable charge should be made
for a detailed written estimate as it is
often used as a basis for corrective
work carried out by others."

I've been caught out by *******s like that a couple of times.
--

Dave

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Chris Cowley wrote:
The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?


A bloke I know swears by putting PTFE around the olives before tightening
the compression fitting. Seems to work. A bit of normal threadlock on the
threads - as much to stop it seizing/binding as to stop water. The olive
seal is what counts for stopping water, not the thread.



a

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:51:48 GMT, "al"
wrote:

A bloke I know swears by putting PTFE around the olives before tightening
the compression fitting.

I know blokes who swear blind that Elvis works down the chipshop, but it
doesn't mean they're right.

al wrote:

A bloke I know swears by putting PTFE around the olives before
tightening the compression fitting. Seems to work. A bit of normal
threadlock on the threads - as much to stop it seizing/binding as to
stop water. The olive seal is what counts for stopping water, not
the thread.

Gease/oil on the threads might stop them binding (it works fine on car wheel
nuts) but threadlock can only lead to trouble.

"al" wrote in message
news

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Chris Cowley wrote:
The page http://www.clubi.ie/plumbing-heating/gripes.htm states:-

"PTFE joint tape in the thread of compression fittings is a common
sign of uninformed DIY."

Where exactly is one supposed to put PTFE tape if not on the thread of
compression fittings?


A bloke I know swears by putting PTFE around the olives before tightening
the compression fitting. Seems to work.

But so does cleaning the pipes and olives and not using *anything* else
(which I always do and have never had one leak). Why add something that
isn't required on the basis it "seems to work"

A bit of normal threadlock on the threads - as much to stop it
seizing/binding as to stop water. The olive seal is what counts for
stopping water, not the thread.

True but why put anything on the threads, I have never had one bind or seize
if you clean everything and add nothing.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

True but why put anything on the threads, I have never had one bind or
seize if you clean everything and add nothing.


Fair point. I ain't no plumber though ... just saying what I've seen




a

wrote in message
oups.com...
many chancers or handymen think plumbing is basically about joining
pipes so that they dont leak.
perhaps the reason the trade attracts so many chancers is because
plumbers charge so much for what is often a simple job like turning a
nut one half turn for fifty quid call out charge.

over the years I have had about a dozen would be plumbers who did
plumbing work for me and all were ok to do the jobs needed but one
could be iffy in many cases. however if the price is right then why go
for the expensive option for what is basically a simple job once one
has a knowledge of how a system works.
of course there are many tricks to the trade and leaks and airlocks
provide a rich source of income to plumbers who love these call outs by
the people who should know a basic amount about their house plumbing.
Really it should be taught in school in a basic way so that kids
learned how to join a pipe and fix a leak or an airlock as well as many
other basic home repairs.

While looking for a theme for a Scout activities for a group I used to
assist at (11-13 mainly), I used DIY. One evening I got them all,
individually make a pipe join with a solder ring fitting. The down side
nowadays is risk assessment etc with blowtorches (which we glossed over a
bit). The up side was that they all went home as pleased as punch with their
little bits of pipe with joins in. Young people actually enjoy doing things
like this if they are given the chance, and it could easily be taught in
schools, as you say.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

wrote:
Really it should be taught in school in a basic way so that
kids learned how to join a pipe and fix a leak or an airlock as well
as many other basic home repairs.

It is/was in some schools.
My daughter went plumbing, bricklaying, and a bit of electrical stuff when
she was 12.

dennis@home wrote:
wrote:
Really it should be taught in school in a basic way so that
kids learned how to join a pipe and fix a leak or an airlock as well
as many other basic home repairs.

It is/was in some schools.
My daughter went plumbing, bricklaying, and a bit of electrical stuff when
she was 12.


Ah, very fortunate that.


I hear that Nu Laber is going to issue every child at birth not only
with an ID card, but also a PhD from Oxbridge, in order to entirely
remove the expense and inevitable unfairness of the state run education
system.

The cost of these degrees will be offset by making each child pay back a
fee commensurate with the high income that may be expected to go with
such exalted qualifications.

In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
many chancers or handymen think plumbing is basically about joining
pipes so that they dont leak.
perhaps the reason the trade attracts so many chancers is because
plumbers charge so much for what is often a simple job like turning a
nut one half turn for fifty quid call out charge.

over the years I have had about a dozen would be plumbers who did
plumbing work for me and all were ok to do the jobs needed but one
could be iffy in many cases. however if the price is right then why go
for the expensive option for what is basically a simple job once one
has a knowledge of how a system works.
of course there are many tricks to the trade and leaks and airlocks
provide a rich source of income to plumbers who love these call outs by
the people who should know a basic amount about their house plumbing.
Really it should be taught in school in a basic way so that kids
learned how to join a pipe and fix a leak or an airlock as well as many
other basic home repairs.

While looking for a theme for a Scout activities for a group I used to
assist at (11-13 mainly), I used DIY. One evening I got them all,
individually make a pipe join with a solder ring fitting. The down side
nowadays is risk assessment etc with blowtorches (which we glossed over a
bit). The up side was that they all went home as pleased as punch with their
little bits of pipe with joins in. Young people actually enjoy doing things
like this if they are given the chance, and it could easily be taught in
schools, as you say.

Scouts are generally self-selected as motivated and are there because they
want to be. In addition class sizes are likely to be smaller than in school.
Add the greater likelihood that parents will complain that Jason burnt his
finger and you reduce the chance of such activities being promoted in school.
Despite that such activities do go on in some most unlikely schools - but
teachers are always running the risk that their next totally innocent move
will end their careers. :-(

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
While looking for a theme for a Scout activities for a group I used to
assist at (11-13 mainly), I used DIY. One evening I got them all,
individually make a pipe join with a solder ring fitting. The down side
nowadays is risk assessment etc with blowtorches (which we glossed over a
bit). The up side was that they all went home as pleased as punch with
their little bits of pipe with joins in.

Skills like that must prove very lucrative come bob-a-job week. Or is that
now guinea-a-leak-week?

Sorry bob-a-job went the way of all risky things a long while ago (