I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.

I do a lot of my shopping for home repair items at Menard's, and it's
pretty rare anymore to find anything American-made (or at least decent)
in their plumbing department -- especially for the pipe & fittings.

The last straw was a few pieces I bought since I was there anyhow --
just a 3/4" tee and a 90. Assembling it, the 90 threaded in very easily
(too easily) with no progressive increase in force required, and then
tightened abruptly. I used tape, but when things don't feel right, you
just know there's going to be rework & cursing. With properly made
fittings, this job would have been no challenge at all.

Sure enough, it leaked just enough to **** me off. One droplet every 45
seconds, maybe. No amount of torque & teflon tape would keep it
water-tight. Rework with US-made items, and everything's fine.

I had to replace some ball valves a while back, and I had already had
bad experiences with Menards' "LDF" brand of garbage valves. I went to
an Ace Hardware instead and paid through the snout for some Italian made
ball valves. It was worth it, because the job had to be done only once,
and they've held up just fine since. (I'd still prefer American...).

I've seen these LDF pieces of crap crumble upon installation. They
can't even take the force of normal tightening with a wrench. I've seen
one with a pinhole leak at the body of the valve! Nowhere near a moving
part. That's how thin the material was. Damn! What are they using for
quality control?

What these retailers probably don't understand is that for plumbing (and
probably many other areas of home maintenance), labor is the deciding
factor. If I buy the Menards Chinese crap, it's almost 100% certain
that I'll be doing the job twice. Therefore, I'll shop elsewhere, and
I'll buy whatever else I need at the same place. So Menards loses the
whole purchase, not just the plumbing.

But as for Chinese plumbing parts -- man, I've had it. No more.

Robert Barr wrote:
I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.

I do a lot of my shopping for home repair items at Menard's, and it's
pretty rare anymore to find anything American-made (or at least decent)
in their plumbing department -- especially for the pipe & fittings.

The last straw was a few pieces I bought since I was there anyhow --
just a 3/4" tee and a 90. Assembling it, the 90 threaded in very easily
(too easily) with no progressive increase in force required, and then
tightened abruptly. I used tape, but when things don't feel right, you
just know there's going to be rework & cursing. With properly made
fittings, this job would have been no challenge at all.

Sure enough, it leaked just enough to **** me off. One droplet every 45
seconds, maybe. No amount of torque & teflon tape would keep it
water-tight. Rework with US-made items, and everything's fine.

I had to replace some ball valves a while back, and I had already had
bad experiences with Menards' "LDF" brand of garbage valves. I went to
an Ace Hardware instead and paid through the snout for some Italian made
ball valves. It was worth it, because the job had to be done only once,
and they've held up just fine since. (I'd still prefer American...).

I've seen these LDF pieces of crap crumble upon installation. They
can't even take the force of normal tightening with a wrench. I've seen
one with a pinhole leak at the body of the valve! Nowhere near a moving
part. That's how thin the material was. Damn! What are they using for
quality control?

What these retailers probably don't understand is that for plumbing (and
probably many other areas of home maintenance), labor is the deciding
factor. If I buy the Menards Chinese crap, it's almost 100% certain
that I'll be doing the job twice. Therefore, I'll shop elsewhere, and
I'll buy whatever else I need at the same place. So Menards loses the
whole purchase, not just the plumbing.

But as for Chinese plumbing parts -- man, I've had it. No more.

Are there not Minimum standards required for electrical and plumbing
supplies?

In article Am_Md.1397$L_3.259@clgrps13, Martik wrote:
Robert Barr wrote:

But as for Chinese plumbing parts -- man, I've had it. No more.

Are there not Minimum standards required for electrical and plumbing
supplies?

Of course there are. Now you go to China and enforce them. Lotsa luck! The
Chinese have been caught hundreds of times forging UL, CSA, and European
approval seals on the garbage they produce. You want to put a stop to it?
Write your Congressman and Senator, and demand that the U.S. revoke China's
"most favored nation" trading status until such time as it can be proven that
the forgeries have stopped.

Robert Barr wrote:
I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.

I don't blame you. Back when I used to shop at Lowes I bought a couple
of galvanized pipe nipples for use outside. They didn't leak, but
within two months they were covered solid with rust. Galvanized? I
don't think so....

"Ron Silverman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 03:39:59 +0000, Robert Barr wrote:

I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.



In the last 12-18 months, I've gone from 1 or 2% defect rates in material
and supplies to about 10%. This is across all categories. On
inexpensive small parts, I frequently buy multiple items now in case the
first one fails. If the first part does not fail, I've got a spare in the
tool box for the next job.

Surely there is some organization that can get the ball rolling on this.
Writing letters to politicians is a waste of time -- maybe someone that
can line the politician's pockets with money will get something done....

when unethical and/or criminal politicians in a country different than yours
colloborate with unethical and/or criminal politicians in your country, you
will get defective manufactured goods imported to you

if the politicians in your country care about you they will demand higher
quality manufactured goods be imported into your country

lining your politicians' pockets with money will only make them even more
corrupt than they already are

your politicians will let more defective goods into your country if they are
getting benefits from doing so, whether or not you know about those benefits

many cannot fathom their own politicians doing this to them, and until they
can and do, and do something about it, it will continue

Martik wrote:
Robert Barr wrote:

I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.

I do a lot of my shopping for home repair items at Menard's, and it's
pretty rare anymore to find anything American-made (or at least
decent) in their plumbing department -- especially for the pipe &
fittings.

The last straw was a few pieces I bought since I was there anyhow --
just a 3/4" tee and a 90. Assembling it, the 90 threaded in very
easily (too easily) with no progressive increase in force required,
and then tightened abruptly. I used tape, but when things don't feel
right, you just know there's going to be rework & cursing. With
properly made fittings, this job would have been no challenge at all.

Sure enough, it leaked just enough to **** me off. One droplet every
45 seconds, maybe. No amount of torque & teflon tape would keep it
water-tight. Rework with US-made items, and everything's fine.

I had to replace some ball valves a while back, and I had already had
bad experiences with Menards' "LDF" brand of garbage valves. I went
to an Ace Hardware instead and paid through the snout for some Italian
made ball valves. It was worth it, because the job had to be done
only once, and they've held up just fine since. (I'd still prefer
American...).

I've seen these LDF pieces of crap crumble upon installation. They
can't even take the force of normal tightening with a wrench. I've
seen one with a pinhole leak at the body of the valve! Nowhere near a
moving part. That's how thin the material was. Damn! What are they
using for quality control?

What these retailers probably don't understand is that for plumbing
(and probably many other areas of home maintenance), labor is the
deciding factor. If I buy the Menards Chinese crap, it's almost 100%
certain that I'll be doing the job twice. Therefore, I'll shop
elsewhere, and I'll buy whatever else I need at the same place. So
Menards loses the whole purchase, not just the plumbing.

But as for Chinese plumbing parts -- man, I've had it. No more.


Are there not Minimum standards required for electrical and plumbing
supplies?

The answer to that question varies by locality. In Maryland, USA for
example it is unlawful to offer electrical supplies for sale that are
not listed by an electrical testing laboratory.
--
Tom H

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Robert Barr wrote:
I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.

I don't blame you. Back when I used to shop at Lowes I bought a couple
of galvanized pipe nipples for use outside. They didn't leak, but
within two months they were covered solid with rust. Galvanized? I
don't think so....


This is not an all one way problem though!
Although it may support the low wage = low quality argument?
Over the period 1995-2005 we have (and continue to) have owned three
'Japanese' all of the same type/brand very similar pickups.
1) The first one was well used; made in Japan. We were 4th owners and were
so impressed we bought #2.
2) The second slightly used made in the US.
3) The third brand, new, also made in the US.
Certain differences in quality and the parts that actually broke and/or
corroded and had to be replaced certainly favour the Japanese truck!
Replacement parts for the three came, ostensibly from North America;
although it's hard to tell nowadays where the parts are actually made.
Mexico to Korea!
It is interesting that some of the best products come from countries which
are 'very expensive'.
For example, countries in Scandinavia, European Community, Canada. In many
of these salaries are high (higher than in the US) gasoline and heating
costs are high, income and local taxes tend to be much higher because of the
cost of social programmes for income support and pensions. But we are told
US productivity is high and US industry efficient (Well forget Enron!).
The US model seems to be to tariff imports and heavily subsidize in order
to protect 'local' industries? Whether that works and/or results in lower
cost for US consumers seems to be unclear?
All very puzzling!

Travis Jordan wrote:

Back when I used to shop at Lowes I bought a couple
of galvanized pipe nipples for use outside. They
didn't leak, but within two months they were covered
solid with rust. Galvanized? I don't think so....

The "galvanized" fittings I saw at Lowe's were unusually bright, as if
they had been coated with aluminumized paint rather than galvanized,
and the shine came off when I scraped one.

Italy has actually been producing some high quality ball valves, Nibco for
instance is made there. As far as fitting go, would not use any more chinese
stuff, as a matter of fact, inspectors here in NYC are known to have plumbers
re-do work where they find chinse fittings.

good luck

little voices in my head make me talk in incomplete sentences with
little to no punctuation

copper pipe is bad. satan uses copper pipe to attract his minions so
they will do his bidding

sometimes I can feel the evil leaking through the can lights in my
basement - I ignore the evil but cannot ignore the requests of the can
lights I do as they bid me to do

cancer lives in the attic and sometimes in the floor. congressmen know
this but wont help. asking for help causes them to put your name on a
list of bad citizens to monitor

when the sunnybrook farm takes away my computer and takes me to the
voltage lab it doesnt matter because I can still post through my
decoder ring

Cheap consumer prods from china are rapidly filling our landfills and
emptying our bank accounts. Always, always always return the defective
crap.
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
oups.com...

Travis Jordan wrote:

Back when I used to shop at Lowes I bought a couple
of galvanized pipe nipples for use outside. They
didn't leak, but within two months they were covered
solid with rust. Galvanized? I don't think so....

The "galvanized" fittings I saw at Lowe's were unusually bright, as if
they had been coated with aluminumized paint rather than galvanized,
and the shine came off when I scraped one.

Terry wrote:
"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
.. .

Robert Barr wrote:

I've just gotten to the point where I won't buy plumbing parts if
they're made in China.

This is not an all one way problem though!
Although it may support the low wage = low quality argument?
Over the period 1995-2005 we have (and continue to) have owned three
'Japanese' all of the same type/brand very similar pickups.
1) The first one was well used; made in Japan. We were 4th owners
and were so impressed we bought #2.
2) The second slightly used made in the US.
3) The third brand, new, also made in the US.
Certain differences in quality and the parts that actually broke
and/or
corroded and had to be replaced certainly favour the Japanese truck!

Even in the 1980s, Japanese steel for cars was better than American
steel, and Japan produced nickel-zinc plated steel before other
countries did.

Replacement parts for the three came, ostensibly from North America;

It is interesting that some of the best products come from countries
which are 'very expensive'.
For example, countries in Scandinavia, European Community, Canada.
In many of these salaries are high (higher than in the US)

Labor is one thing where you do tend to get what you pay for. Honda,
for example, expects its Chinese parts factories will save only 30% in
costs, despite the labor there being essentially free compared to that
in high-wage countries, where it makes up most of the costs. In other
words Chinese labor is only half as productive, and currently it costs
at least $1500 more to produce a car in China than in North America.

"Usmiech" wrote in message
news:1107657498.8d3b0860ad151cc0c48c475a60b0d184@b ubbanews...
The Chinese don't have toilets. How can the produce any products for
plumbing?

Toilets are common only in their best hotels in the big cities. Anywhere
else a hole in the floor is a high class establishment. And don't forget a
clothes pin for your nose.

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
little voices in my head make me talk in incomplete sentences with
little to no punctuation

copper pipe is bad. satan uses copper pipe to attract his minions so
they will do his bidding

sometimes I can feel the evil leaking through the can lights in my
basement - I ignore the evil but cannot ignore the requests of the can
lights I do as they bid me to do

cancer lives in the attic and sometimes in the floor. congressmen know
this but wont help. asking for help causes them to put your name on a
list of bad citizens to monitor

when the sunnybrook farm takes away my computer and takes me to the
voltage lab it doesnt matter because I can still post through my
decoder ring


Funny stuff - too bad Effi can't see it and laugh along with us.

Matt wrote:

little voices in my head make me talk in incomplete sentences with
little to no punctuation

copper pipe is bad. satan uses copper pipe to attract his minions so
they will do his bidding

sometimes I can feel the evil leaking through the can lights in my
basement - I ignore the evil but cannot ignore the requests of the can
lights I do as they bid me to do

cancer lives in the attic and sometimes in the floor. congressmen know
this but wont help. asking for help causes them to put your name on a
list of bad citizens to monitor

when the sunnybrook farm takes away my computer and takes me to the
voltage lab it doesnt matter because I can still post through my
decoder ring


My dear Matt-

From reading your post, it is quite obvious that you
are utilizing an inferior, Chinese manufactured tinfoil
hat from Harbor Freight. Please obtain a high-quality,
domestic tinfoil hat he

http://www.ericisgreat.com/tinfoilhats/

I used to spent all my time killing "their" agents and
burying them under my porch. Now that I have a proper
tinfoil hat, I realize that the *real* danger is that
the Bush Administration will find out about the case of
10W-40 in my garage and decide to "liberate" my little
40' x 120' piece of heaven.

Please note that "effi" hasn't mentioned the real
threat to our health, namely the hydrogen and oxygen
found in our water supply. "effi" is obviously another
hypnoslave. Beware!


--
PB
"Fresh windows units enter the internet backwards, bent
over & naked, screaming “Don’t infect me! It will take
me more than 12 minutes to download the security
packs!”-anonamin