On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:54:17 UTC, T i m wrote:

And (as was mentioned elsewhere in this thread) nice / important (to
some) the ideal might be, who want's to spellcheck the usenet ..... ?

And even spellcheckers don't pick up misuse of apostrophes! :-)

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:12:20 +0000 (UTC), Dave
wrote:

T i m wrote:



I am 48 years old and *still* spell some (often the same) words
incorectly .. but as long as I do my best to use capitals and a bit of
formatting / punctuation and everyone can understand the spirit of the
message does it *really* matter?

I'm with you, here :-)

The cilent minorrityy maybe?


My wife has the ability to spell 99 percent of words, but she is
absolute crap at maths.

Funnily enough (and in spite of Mary's beliefs) I ask my missus (and
/or now daughter) any words I'm not sure on. Probably 75% of the time
she can just rattle them off but the rest require flicking through a
big book she keeps nearby. I have tried using her book (and similarly
spellcheckers) get completely thrown if you don't happen to know what
the first few letters of a word should be?

She runs a scout group and guess who has to
balance the books at the end of the year?

Another good point. Some folk seem to think we are all created equal
... and this is obviously not the case (or we could all become English
teachers) ;-)

Going back to spelling, I am just hopeless and depend, largely, on spell
checkers. Over the years, they have helped me to spell a hell of a lot
better than I used to do, but alas, I still make mistakes in letters I
write.

And another point that may be part of my current situation. I;'ve
never been a reader of novels and only generally read technical
manuals (when I have to). I rarely write (or have written), prefering
to use a keyboard (all be it slowly) wherever possible. Therefore
since my first exposure to Word Processors I have made use of spell
checkers and not had a need to leard stuff myself. Similar to the
numbers storded in my mobile phone .. of all the numbers I may ring
from time to time I only *know* about 3 by heart. I haven't a clue
what my wifes or daughters mobile phone numbers are and like many
other folk don't even know my own. Why, because since I have had a
phone I have stored my numbers in a book and then my Psion / PC etc.

A young lad I took through one of the modules you need to become a
Certified Novell (Netware?) Engineer could remember the product codes
for about 20 items of software .. (handy in a pub quiz or if you get
caught short and need to install MS Office in a hurry) ;-)

I think my problem stemmed from being born with asthma and spending just
as much time at home ill, as I did at school learning.

Sri to hear that Dave. As I mentioned before, we all have different
priorities in life .. I favoured the more practical subjects in school
(and have earnt a living as a support engineer for the last 30 years)
never wanted to get into management .. never had an interest in paper
... ;-)

As far as I know, I am not the least bit dyslexic, but as an aside, I
can't, for the life of me remember a name for over 5 seconds. Give me a
number and it is in my memory for ever. Names fall out of every orifice
I have ;-)

Same here .. and possibly why we may 'suffer' (BECAUSE WE DON'T DO IT
FOR FUN MARY g) simmilar things (except I can't remember numbers
either) ;-( Now I will take most things apart and as far as I am
concerened, they nearly put themselves baxk together again ... to me
obvious, to the missus 'no chance'.

When the revolution comes and Mary is making my clothes and I'm making
her carts .. all I'll need is a sketch of what she wants and I'm away
(I rarely 'read' the instructions) ;-)

Numbers just go down to my belly and make it just that bit fatter :-)

;-)

Good luck with the dyslexia

Thanks .. although I'm not sure I have it ...?

Example .. if I'm busy typing away then look up I often see something
completely different to what was going on in my head at the time?
Completely missed words, words where all the letters are substituted
for a ones near but not right (but know how to spell)? Sometimes I try
to write something down, something important maybe but actually get a
bit of it wrong?

Sometimes I have misdialled the same number I'm reading from a bit of
paper 3 or 4 times?

Am I dyslexic /// disslex// (you know) ;-)

My memory is similar (in general) .. go somewhere specifically to take
something but leave it at home?

I got in with the Chineese the other night and the missus asked me
where our daughter was .. "the one you should have picked up from your
Mums and brought home!" (she then went on about "I only ask you to do
two things ... " (luckily we have a microwave) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Mary Fisher wrote:

'Matter' is a function of where you are and what you are doing .. in
the real world what do you expect a workman digging a hole in the
ground in the 80 deg sun to do? Stop every 5 mins for a wash? So, it
might 'matter' if the observer is inflexible? As mentioned elsewhere,
it's often not just a matter of trying harder .. is just how different
folk 'see' stuff. What if they have a body odour 'problem' no matter
how many times a day they wash / spray / roll .. would you tell them
they stink?


Are you suggesting that someone who can't be bothered to spell is digging a
hole at 80 degrees?

Not wishing to put words in Tim's mouth, but I think he was suggesting
that for some of us, the difficulty we face producing 100% accurately
spelled text in all situations will be comparable to the difficulty said
ditch digger would have remaining perspiration and odour free.

What I'm saying is that they care about how they look but not about how they
communicate. Fine feathers and all that ...

Just a stab in the dark here, but do you put on make-up every time you
go out? Could another woman not turn round and claim that "She speaks
real fancy, but can't be bothered to take care of her appearance". Could
it be just a case of differing priorities?

I do - but it interferes with the communication of the message and it's not
necessary.

Not "necessary" would imply that there was choice involved. If you have
proofread to the best of your ability and checked with the available
tools and there are still errors, how do you suggest one eliminates them?

(in fact treat that as a rhetorical question - the answer obviously
being "post to usenet and some spelling moderator will help you out"!)

I really did believe that spellcheckers were
part of most verbal applications

Not really. Also depending on the style of your errors, some are very
much better than others. The MS ones I find pretty poor as it happens
with my errors, the Mozilla one is worse still. The best ones (for me)
are based on the "Linguibase" by Proximity Technologies which seems to
have an almost clairvoyant ability to extract what I mean from the
nonsense I type ;-), but alas that does not seem to be that popular
these days....


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28 Jun 2005 23:01:55 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:54:17 UTC, T i m wrote:

And (as was mentioned elsewhere in this thread) nice / important (to
some) the ideal might be, who want's to spellcheck the usenet ..... ?

And even spellcheckers don't pick up misuse of apostrophes! :-)

Xakly ;-)

The thing is (and I'm not trying to defend the above atrocity Bob)
this newsgroup / internet malarky is devoid of emotion / feeling and
sometimes one (I?) *try* to empart some of that feeling by the
'misuse' of said?

Ok, if I stopped and though about the 'replaced / substituted' letters
everytime (or more often proof read all I typed) I might get nearer
the mark but if *I* did that, any 'flow' (FWIW) may be lost ..?

Anyway, enough of this .. I'm gonna blow the crap out of some mates on
the net with a quick game of Pariah ..

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:07:50 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

In uk.d-i-y, T i m wrote:
I'll say something (to Mary) that might make
some realise how unkind (however innocent) having a pop when we spell
'difficult' words incorrectly (simple incorrect words are often just
typos)? (And I note Mike said sorry etc)

Please understand that I wasn't "having a pop" at Rick. If I'd
criticised him in any way, that would be different, but I didn't. I used
his posting as a vehicle for humour. I think that's acceptable, bearing
in mind that *anything* that one person regards as humorous could be
regarded as offensive by someone else. Humour's like that.

As you have quoted me Mike I will add something if I may. I took what
you said as it was meant (and referenced that you said 'sorry' if it
offended). It was only when Rick responded did I feel / share some of
his frustration.

If we were inhibited from taking the humorous opportunities presented by
typos, Usenet would be a much poorer place.

Indeed .. and if you don't say anything you are less likely to say
something wrong (and that would be no good here!). However of all
things that may upset picking on what is likely to be a spelling
mistake (I wouldn't be sure how to spell 'Einstien' ..(was I close?))
as opposed to a 'tyop'?

Difficult call I know but it's like asking a fat girl if she's
pregnant ...? ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On 28 Jun 2005 23:01:55 GMT,it is alleged that "Bob Eager"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:54:17 UTC, T i m wrote:

And (as was mentioned elsewhere in this thread) nice / important (to
some) the ideal might be, who want's to spellcheck the usenet ..... ?

And even spellcheckers don't pick up misuse of apostrophes! :-)

Spellcheckers may not, but in my experience, Usenet _always_ does. g

--
Life is a whim of several billion cells to be you for a while.

T i m wrote:

Good luck with the dyslexia


Thanks .. although I'm not sure I have it ...?

The currently accepted stats (BDA et al) would suggest 1 in 10 people
mildly affected, and 1 in 30 with serious problems.

Example .. if I'm busy typing away then look up I often see something
completely different to what was going on in my head at the time?
Completely missed words, words where all the letters are substituted
for a ones near but not right (but know how to spell)? Sometimes I try
to write something down, something important maybe but actually get a
bit of it wrong?

Sometimes I have misdialled the same number I'm reading from a bit of
paper 3 or 4 times?

Am I dyslexic /// disslex// (you know) ;-)

Possibly - what you describe would not be inconsistent with some types
(there are different types).

Aside from being fairly bright in general, often dyslexics will have
skewed abilities. So while their lexical abilities may be low (often two
of the three of reading, writing, spelling suffering badly), they will
have unnaturally strong abilities in other areas (problem solving,
visual-spatial awareness, three dimensional or pictorial thinking).
Oddly they will also often have very strong spoken language skills.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:26:36 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Mary Fisher wrote:

Are you suggesting that someone who can't be bothered to spell is digging a
hole at 80 degrees?

Not wishing to put words in Tim's mouth, but I think he was suggesting
that for some of us, the difficulty we face producing 100% accurately
spelled text in all situations will be comparable to the difficulty said
ditch digger would have remaining perspiration and odour free.

I think Mary was playing but your reply was exactly what I was trying
to say (im my own misspelled and badly punctuated way) ;-)

snip

The best ones (for me)
are based on the "Linguibase" by Proximity Technologies which seems to
have an almost clairvoyant ability to extract what I mean from the
nonsense I type ;-)

Brilliant observation John!

I'm not sure this fits your format but I used to used Netscape
Messenger for my mail and that seemed to do as you described (turn my
gibberish into real words!). I'm currently using Mozilla Thunderbird
and the spell checker in that seems to give up much too easily? I find
myself trying different combinations of a word before it will even
give me a break and suggest something for me to work from!

Thanks for the laugh though ..

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:47:16 GMT, Chip
wrote:

On 28 Jun 2005 23:01:55 GMT,it is alleged that "Bob Eager"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:54:17 UTC, T i m wrote:

And (as was mentioned elsewhere in this thread) nice / important (to
some) the ideal might be, who want's to spellcheck the usenet ..... ?

And even spellcheckers don't pick up misuse of apostrophes! :-)

Spellcheckers may not, but in my experience, Usenet _always_ does. g


LOL ..

Cheers Chip .

T i m

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:51:28 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


Aside from being fairly bright in general, often dyslexics will have
skewed abilities. So while their lexical abilities may be low (often two
of the three of reading, writing, spelling suffering badly), they will
have unnaturally strong abilities in other areas (problem solving,
visual-spatial awareness, three dimensional or pictorial thinking).
Oddly they will also often have very strong spoken language skills.

Hmm, without trying to sound like I am blowing my own trumpet that
does seem to fit?

I have been an electronics / electromechanical / chemical / comms /
LAN / WAN / PC support engineer for most of my working life (problem
solving)?

I have a good sense of direction (rarely get lost in buildings) have
competitivly raced RC boats / cars (still do) and can 'picture' things
before I put pen to paper (and the finished result is more often than
not exactly what I had in my head)? You have to have eyes everywhere
to ride a cycle / motorbike these days?

6 years IT training (MCT, CNI, A+CT) .. I didn't get too many
complaints .. but then I used pictures rather than words on the white
board! (spoken word)? ;-)

Maybe there *is* a sort of 'balance' with this then John?

All the best and thanks for the feedback ;-)

T i m

T i m wrote:

I'm not sure this fits your format but I used to used Netscape
Messenger for my mail and that seemed to do as you described (turn my
gibberish into real words!). I'm currently using Mozilla Thunderbird
and the spell checker in that seems to give up much too easily? I find
myself trying different combinations of a word before it will even
give me a break and suggest something for me to work from!

Now that is something I would not mind if MS "integrated" into the OS. A
way of selecting a spell checking plugin that could then be called up in
any textual entry field. Each time sharing the same custom spelling
dictionary.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

T i m wrote:

Aside from being fairly bright in general, often dyslexics will have
skewed abilities. So while their lexical abilities may be low (often two
of the three of reading, writing, spelling suffering badly), they will
have unnaturally strong abilities in other areas (problem solving,
visual-spatial awareness, three dimensional or pictorial thinking).
Oddly they will also often have very strong spoken language skills.


Hmm, without trying to sound like I am blowing my own trumpet that
does seem to fit?

I have been an electronics / electromechanical / chemical / comms /
LAN / WAN / PC support engineer for most of my working life (problem
solving)?

You may also: find it easy to grasp complex concepts; find it easy to
remember lots of non structured technical "stuff" that many would find
difficult (ASCII code, resistor colour code etc); be good at lateral
thinking. Find it difficult to take notes and think at the same time;
find it difficult to read your own writing; find the writing process
physically difficult or painful. Hence in many cases relying on memory
rather than writing stuff down.

Many dyslexics also report "knowing" from an early age that they were in
some way different to their peers, even though they could probably not
put a finger on why.

I have a good sense of direction (rarely get lost in buildings) have
competitivly raced RC boats / cars (still do) and can 'picture' things
before I put pen to paper (and the finished result is more often than
not exactly what I had in my head)? You have to have eyes everywhere
to ride a cycle / motorbike these days?

Dyslexics tend to make very good architects, quite often they are able
to maintain many aspects of three dimensional problems in the head all
at once...

6 years IT training (MCT, CNI, A+CT) .. I didn't get too many
complaints .. but then I used pictures rather than words on the white
board! (spoken word)? ;-)

Maybe there *is* a sort of 'balance' with this then John?

I had a quick web search and found this:

http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/extra328.html

Not sure how much you can learn from it (although I am around the 8 to 9
"yes" answers level if I answer for me now, although interestingly if I
think back to when I was in my early teens the score would have been
more like 15 or 16!)

There are also strong hereditary links, while not passing directly from
one generation to the next, it is not uncommon to find several instances
of it dotted about a family. It affects ten times as many boys as girls.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:49:18 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


You may also: find it easy to grasp complex concepts;

Hmmm, 'she' often says it's allright for you,, you absorb information
easily .. how do you remember all that". This would be when I have say
watched a TV documentary about something and tell her all about the
key points some time later?

find it easy to
remember lots of non structured technical "stuff" that many would find
difficult (ASCII code, resistor colour code etc)

Not sure about the ASCII code (I have printed that on a handy sheet)
but resistor colour code .. Bk, Bn, Rd, O, Y, Gn, Bl, V, Gy, W ;-)

; be good at lateral
thinking.

Sometimes .. ;-)


Find it difficult to take notes and think at the same time;

Yep, so generally don't bother, prefering to just 'listen' and absorb?

find it difficult to read your own writing;

Often ;-(

find the writing process
physically difficult or painful.

Yep, hence why I'd rather pop stuff into notepad rather than writing
it down.

Hence in many cases relying on memory
rather than writing stuff down.

Well I have to write some stuff down .. shopping lists for example ..
and if I don't I will normally forset *something* ;-(

Many dyslexics also report "knowing" from an early age that they were in
some way different to their peers, even though they could probably not
put a finger on why.

Well that's sorta true (quiet Mary! g) .. built 6' a rowing boat at
school when my class were making bookends .. was building RC powered
catamarans / disco gear/ motorbikes when my mates were trying to get
into the pubs .. ..

Dyslexics tend to make very good architects, quite often they are able
to maintain many aspects of three dimensional problems in the head all
at once...

Angain sorta .. but seem to think best 'serially'. What I mean by that
is when I was running a IT support Help Desk I could fault find a
complex international data-link and could sort of 'picture' each step
/ link as I was talking the customer / engineer through it. However, I
don't like (can't cope with) parallel stuff .. like chess for example?

I had a quick web search and found this:

http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/extra328.html

Hmm, interesting ;-)

Not sure how much you can learn from it (although I am around the 8 to 9
"yes" answers level if I answer for me now, although interestingly if I
think back to when I was in my early teens the score would have been
more like 15 or 16!)

I'm printing it as I type .. I tried to count the 'yesses' as I read
it but repeatly lost count?

There are also strong hereditary links, while not passing directly from
one generation to the next, it is not uncommon to find several instances
of it dotted about a family. It affects ten times as many boys as girls.

It's funny isn't it .. I sometimes feal I have to work really hard to
even do the basic stuff, stuff for example my 15 yr old daugter seems
to handle easily (like spellings) but at other times can pull out of
nowhere answers to things I didn't think I knew about?

Intresting stuff though John .. like when my wife was having
difficulty seeing the blackboard when she was 15, it was only when
she commented on this to her classmates did she realise she needed
glasses!

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:12:40 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

T i m wrote:

I'm not sure this fits your format but I used to used Netscape
Messenger for my mail and that seemed to do as you described (turn my
gibberish into real words!). I'm currently using Mozilla Thunderbird
and the spell checker in that seems to give up much too easily? I find
myself trying different combinations of a word before it will even
give me a break and suggest something for me to work from!

Now that is something I would not mind if MS "integrated" into the OS. A
way of selecting a spell checking plugin that could then be called up in
any textual entry field. Each time sharing the same custom spelling
dictionary.

Well they sorta do that with their some of their own apps don't they
John (Word, Powerpoint etc)?

As you say though .. if they can force IE on us then a global
spellchecker would be a nice gesture (email their suggestion box
John?).

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

Well they sorta do that with their some of their own apps don't they
John (Word, Powerpoint etc)?

As you say though .. if they can force IE on us then a global
spellchecker would be a nice gesture (email their suggestion box
John?).

I was hoping for not only a global spellchecker, but implemented as a
plugin so that you could surplant it with one of your choice and it
would still retain full functionality. That way you could choose one
that worked well with your typical style of error. It would also work in
non MS apps including things like development tools.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

T i m wrote:

Hence in many cases relying on memory

rather than writing stuff down.


Well I have to write some stuff down .. shopping lists for example ..
and if I don't I will normally forset *something* ;-(

Same here... probably a case of motivation as well though- remembering
shopping just aint so much fun ;-)

Dyslexics tend to make very good architects, quite often they are able
to maintain many aspects of three dimensional problems in the head all
at once...


Angain sorta .. but seem to think best 'serially'. What I mean by that
is when I was running a IT support Help Desk I could fault find a
complex international data-link and could sort of 'picture' each step
/ link as I was talking the customer / engineer through it. However, I
don't like (can't cope with) parallel stuff .. like chess for example?

The serial / parallel thing tends to be a male/female brain wiring
limitation rather then a dyslexic one. Most men (80%) are poor at
multitasking down to the way we have highly compartmentalised brains
that have areas dedicated to particular tasks, where women tend to use
multiple parts of the brain to work on the same problems. (hence why men
have a harder time recovering from stokes).

I had a quick web search and found this:

http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/extra328.html

I'm printing it as I type .. I tried to count the 'yesses' as I read
it but repeatly lost count?

Hmmm, another pointer!

I remember seeing an interview with the director of an architectural
firm in the US that was notable for having a policy of only recruiting
dyslexic architects. He explained why he preferred them (reasons
mentioned previously)... but then as an after thought mentioned that he
did not trust them to add up columns of figures though!

There are also strong hereditary links, while not passing directly from
one generation to the next, it is not uncommon to find several instances
of it dotted about a family. It affects ten times as many boys as girls.

Should also add, a disproportionate amount are left handed as well.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim noted that dictionaries are no help with spelling unless you
already know the beginning of the word (and even then they're horribly
slow).

My son now uses a "spelling dictionary" called A.C.E. (ISBN1855032147),
available from amazon he
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...424654-1140420

It works by indexing on the initial vowel sound and the number of
syllables and includes spellings but not full definitions. Apparently
many people who have problems remembering spellings find it
comparitively easy to "hear" the first vowel sound and to sount out the
syllables.
It has transformed his spelling and if you struggle with spellings I'd
recommend it.

"Calvin" wrote in message
ups.com...
Tim noted that dictionaries are no help with spelling unless you
already know the beginning of the word (and even then they're horribly
slow).

My son now uses a "spelling dictionary" called A.C.E. (ISBN1855032147),
available from amazon he
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...424654-1140420

It works by indexing on the initial vowel sound and the number of
syllables and includes spellings but not full definitions. Apparently
many people who have problems remembering spellings find it
comparitively easy to "hear" the first vowel sound and to sount out the
syllables.
It has transformed his spelling and if you struggle with spellings I'd
recommend it.

Well done to your son. The point is that you have toWANT to transform your
spelling, you have to think it matters, you have to be bothered.

Mary

From your posts, and assuming you aren't trolling, I can't believe you
have ever witnessed the effort and distress experienced by some people
with regard to spelling. People who have spelling difficulties simply
can't see their own mis-spellings so they can't identify that the
mistake even exists. Such a person may well look at a word and think
that it might be spelled wrong but even then be completely unable to
think how it might better be spelled. To suggest that each word be
checked is nonsense in any real sense.
It is simply not true to say that people with spelling problems
generally don't want to improve their spelling, dont' think it matters
and can't be bothered. Many know their spelling is poor, have spent an
enormous amount of time and effort attempting to improve it and have
arrived at an equilibrium whereby their standard of spelling is
balanced against the tremendous effort which goes into getting it
right.

Calvin wrote:

From your posts, and assuming you aren't trolling, I can't believe you
have ever witnessed the effort and distress experienced by some people
with regard to spelling. People who have spelling difficulties simply
can't see their own mis-spellings so they can't identify that the
mistake even exists. Such a person may well look at a word and think
that it might be spelled wrong but even then be completely unable to
think how it might better be spelled. To suggest that each word be
checked is nonsense in any real sense.
It is simply not true to say that people with spelling problems
generally don't want to improve their spelling, dont' think it matters
and can't be bothered. Many know their spelling is poor, have spent an
enormous amount of time and effort attempting to improve it and have
arrived at an equilibrium whereby their standard of spelling is
balanced against the tremendous effort which goes into getting it
right.

Well said that man, I could not agree more!!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Calvin" wrote in message
oups.com...
From your posts, and assuming you aren't trolling, I can't believe you
have ever witnessed the effort and distress experienced by some people
with regard to spelling. People who have spelling difficulties simply
can't see their own mis-spellings so they can't identify that the
mistake even exists. Such a person may well look at a word and think
that it might be spelled wrong but even then be completely unable to
think how it might better be spelled. To suggest that each word be
checked is nonsense in any real sense.
It is simply not true to say that people with spelling problems
generally don't want to improve their spelling, dont' think it matters
and can't be bothered. Many know their spelling is poor, have spent an
enormous amount of time and effort attempting to improve it and have
arrived at an equilibrium whereby their standard of spelling is
balanced against the tremendous effort which goes into getting it
right.

Calvin,

I'm aware of all of the above.

My argument is with those who say that they can't be bothered, that it's too
much trouble to be courteous to a reader (that is, that the reader should do
the work of interpreting because of idleness on the part of the writer),
with those who question whether it matters.

Do mistakes in maths matter?

If you want to communicate effectively you do your best to make it easy for
the audience. If you speak do you mumble? If you do, does it matter?
Assuming you don't have a disability in speaking then yes it does matter.

Why should anyone take trouble to interpret what someone says, spellcheckers
are very helpful to those who can be bothered to use them. I use one, it
sorts out most typos.

Yes of course I make typos, nobody's perfect and I never claimed to be.

I really can't understand why so many people are defending poor spelling and
I don't believe that they're all dyslexic.

Over and out.

Mary

On 29 Jun 2005 07:46:40 -0700, "Calvin" wrote:

From your posts, and assuming you aren't trolling, I can't believe you
have ever witnessed the effort and distress experienced by some people
with regard to spelling. snip

Don't worry Calvin, our Mary isn't a troll and infact is a very wise
lady, however, she comes from an era where if you couldn't spell,
write or recite your tables correctly you were 'stupid' and suitably
thrashed ;-)

Kids were also thrashed for using their left hand (satans spawn etc).

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
news
On 29 Jun 2005 07:46:40 -0700, "Calvin" wrote:

From your posts, and assuming you aren't trolling, I can't believe you
have ever witnessed the effort and distress experienced by some people
with regard to spelling. snip

Don't worry Calvin, our Mary isn't a troll and infact is a very wise
lady, however, she comes from an era where if you couldn't spell,
write or recite your tables correctly you were 'stupid' and suitably
thrashed ;-)

Not true.

I had my knuckles rapped with a ruler for dreaming instead of working. It
was justified.

Kids were also thrashed for using their left hand (satans spawn etc).

Not in any of the schools I went to.

Perhaps you think I'm older than I really am.

Mary

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:09:36 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Well done to your son. The point is that you have toWANT to transform your
spelling, you have to think it matters, you have to be bothered.

There's a biblical aphorism about casting stones. There are a lot of
barriers to communication around here, we all know who one of them is
(and the regular followup ping-pong doesn't help there) but another is a
certain contributor who whenever she comes up with a word she doesn't
know in a posting, posts a followup, instead of - say - using a
dictionary to find it out.

I've kept quiet about it up to now, but when an antisocial habit is
coupled with a tendency to hold oneself up as a paragon of good
behaviour, and lecture others on how they ought to behave, it is time
for things to be pointed out.

Nick, knowing there will be - by thingummy's law - grammar and spelling
errors in this post.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

John Rumm wrote in news:42c29914$0$17875
:

I was hoping for not only a global spellchecker, but implemented as a
plugin so that you could surplant it with one of your choice and it
would still retain full functionality. That way you could choose one
that worked well with your typical style of error. It would also work in
non MS apps including things like development tools.


I wish that they would do a spelling checker. :-)

(Not a Harry Potter-validator.)

--
Rod

John Rumm wrote:



Possibly - what you describe would not be inconsistent with some types
(there are different types).

Aside from being fairly bright in general, often dyslexics will have
skewed abilities. So while their lexical abilities may be low (often two
of the three of reading, writing, spelling suffering badly), they will
have unnaturally strong abilities in other areas (problem solving,
visual-spatial awareness, three dimensional or pictorial thinking).
Oddly they will also often have very strong spoken language skills.

That sounds very much like me, but read my post to the quiz on if, or
not, I am dyslexic.

Dave

John Rumm wrote:


I had a quick web search and found this:

http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/extra328.html

I took a look at that site and I only answered 2 questions with a yes.
So I think that makes me a non dyslexic. Even though I have all the
other traits.

There are also strong hereditary links, while not passing directly from
one generation to the next, it is not uncommon to find several instances
of it dotted about a family. It affects ten times as many boys as girls.

I am clearly greatful that you said that :-)

Our daughter has 13 GCSE's and 4 A levels. Her daughter (our g daughter)
is getting school reports that she is a dream to teach and is way
above the rest of her class in reading, arithmatic and writing.

This post was spell checked by mself, not a speel chucker, so any
mistakes are self generated. By what? I have no idea. (Hopefully, there
will be no problems).


Dave

John Rumm wrote:


The serial / parallel thing tends to be a male/female brain wiring
limitation rather then a dyslexic one. Most men (80%) are poor at
multitasking down to the way we have highly compartmentalised brains
that have areas dedicated to particular tasks, where women tend to use
multiple parts of the brain to work on the same problems. (hence why men
have a harder time recovering from stokes).

Has this got anything to do with the fact a that a woman will park her
shopping trolley at the narrowest and busiest part of a supermarket? (No
idea of special awareness). Usually at just the spot that you want to
pass them and there is only a pallet that can't move that will let you pass.
Another non multitask situation is at the checkout. They are slow to
pack their bags and even slower to get their purse out and pay. To be
followed by the packing of most of the goods that have been scanned and
the putting away of their debit card/check book. :-(

Enter Mary to defend this. ;-)

As to the fact that they can multitask, watch them when their mobile
phone rings. They cannot even walk when this happens. It stops them in
their tracks :-)
While they are using a phone, they cannot even input any data from
someone stood alongside them :-(


Dave

Force shields up......

Mary Fisher wrote:


My argument is with those who say that they can't be bothered, that it's too
much trouble to be courteous to a reader (that is, that the reader should do
the work of interpreting because of idleness on the part of the writer),
with those who question whether it matters.

I have to take you to task on this.

Do mistakes in maths matter?

A different subject that I will come back to if nessesary.(sp)

If you want to communicate effectively you do your best to make it easy for
the audience. If you speak do you mumble? If you do, does it matter?
Assuming you don't have a disability in speaking then yes it does matter.

Agreed.

Why should anyone take trouble to interpret what someone says, spellcheckers
are very helpful to those who can be bothered to use them. I use one, it
sorts out most typos.

Not if you have no clue as to begin that spelling.

Yes of course I make typos, nobody's perfect and I never claimed to be.

I really can't understand why so many people are defending poor spelling and
I don't believe that they're all dyslexic.

Mary, the ability to spell is a gift that some of us do not have. Note
my use of necessary above. The spelling in this sentence should be
corrected, but the above spelling is how I perceive how it sounds it
should be spelt.

As an aside, I am slightly colour blind. Are you saying that I should
brush up on my colours, in order to rid this from me? It is a genetic
problem, just like dyslexia. Some of us can not see all the colours,
others can't see all the letters in the correct order.

Over and out.

I hope not. I would like to see you posting here for many years to come.


Dave

Mary Fisher wrote:

Who did I correct? And if I were an English teacher would you accept what I
said?

Umm, if we're going to be all pedantic - which it seems to me you were,
Mary - then the clear answer is 'no'; at minimum I'd want you to have
written 'Whom did I correct', not 'who did I correct'. (Since the answer
is 'I corrected him', not 'I corrected he', then the correct form is
'whom', not 'who'.)

Does it matter? Here on uk.d-i-y, barely at all. Here, the 'voice',
'register', or whatever word you prefer, is informal. So I don't see any
more of a problem with the odd typo than with 'could've' in place of
'could have', or a hundred other informalities I'd cringe to see in
something like a Government communique. (Seeing 'could of', mind you,
sets me off gnashing my teeth - though I wouldn't bother posting to
correct it in anything other than extreme circumstances ;-) As the
who/whom thing shows, spellcheckers do no more than alert you to
individual words not being in the dictionary; and blindly following
their dictates can produce the most ridiculous howlers, too. I shan't
bore you all with the anecdotes, but I will steal the following poemette
[see, there's a word a spellchecker would barf on, yet it's an obvious
enough playful usage] from
http://www.learningplaceonline.com/l...-silliness.htm

Ode to the Spell Checker!

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

S'far as I'm concerned, other matters - interleaved snipped posting,
reasonably formed sentences, relevancy - matter more in this forum than
perfect spelling. Badly misspelt stuff is harder to follow, but in a few
cases (You Know Who You Are ;-) are all part of hte, I mean the,
individual style, and the raw punchiness of the contributor I'm thinking
of more than compensates. (And the wilder misspellings provide at least
as much entertainment as the average cryptic crossword clue: it's like
learning to decipher the ramblings of the heavily-accented old git in
the corner of the pub and discovering a welcome acerbic wit).

Stefek

Mike Barnes wrote:

I have no idea whether Rick is dyslexic or not. I assumed that his
mistake was a typo, and I have seen nothing that makes me think
otherwise.

Indeed, and the irony of having misspelt Einstein's name when he was
talking about looking it up *in* *the* *phone* *book* was too good an
innocent joke to pass up, right?

Stefek

T i m wrote:

Kids were also thrashed for using their left hand (satans spawn etc).

not quite thrashed, but sadly "me too"!... and I am still in my 30's!

(Teacher while teaching writing would take the pencil from my left hand,
slap my wrist, place it in the right hand, and then guide it round the
letter shapes... "This is how you are supposed to do it!".

Alas no one noticed until it was too late.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:41:45 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

T i m wrote:

Kids were also thrashed for using their left hand (satans spawn etc).

not quite thrashed, but sadly "me too"!... and I am still in my 30's!

I knew it to be fact John so didn't bother to counter Mary (even
though it was only tounge in cheek with ref to her). When we were on
one of our motorcycle / camping holidays we spent a very interesting
day at the Beamish outdoor museum. We sat in on a demonstration of
what class would be like in a small school from the turn of the
century, complete with class teacher and headmaster. Talk about strict
g .. and anyone caught writing with the 'wrong' (left) hand would
have it caned or straped! I was sitting there as an adult 'guest /
spectator' but didn't dare move or speak!

(Teacher while teaching writing would take the pencil from my left hand,
slap my wrist, place it in the right hand, and then guide it round the
letter shapes... "This is how you are supposed to do it!".

Alas no one noticed until it was too late.

AND all the folk that would be 'locked up' in a looney bin because
they were 'mad' .. today the same folk would be conducting
semi)-normal lives with the right medicine / treatment /
understanding?

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:27:13 +0100, Stefek Zaba
wrote:


Ode to the Spell Checker!

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

snip

Thanks for that Stefek .. at last something written in plain English
that I can read easily! ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

In uk.d-i-y, Stefek Zaba wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
I have no idea whether Rick is dyslexic or not. I assumed that his
mistake was a typo, and I have seen nothing that makes me think
otherwise.

Indeed, and the irony of having misspelt Einstein's name when he was
talking about looking it up *in* *the* *phone* *book* was too good an
innocent joke to pass up, right?

Fazakerley.

But innocent intentions are sometimes not enough.

--
Mike Barnes

T i m wrote:

I knew it to be fact John so didn't bother to counter Mary (even
though it was only tounge in cheek with ref to her). When we were on
one of our motorcycle / camping holidays we spent a very interesting
day at the Beamish outdoor museum. We sat in on a demonstration of

Oh, went there years ago not long after it opened....

what class would be like in a small school from the turn of the
century, complete with class teacher and headmaster. Talk about strict

At the turn of the century I guess is not quite as supprising (still
unnacceptable, but not so supprising). I was talking about the mid
seventies though!

g .. and anyone caught writing with the 'wrong' (left) hand would
have it caned or straped! I was sitting there as an adult 'guest /
spectator' but didn't dare move or speak!

;-)

AND all the folk that would be 'locked up' in a looney bin because
they were 'mad' .. today the same folk would be conducting
semi)-normal lives

Posting about combis to usenet no doubt... ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John Rumm
wrote:

(hence why men
have a harder time recovering from stokes).

Yep, we just go to sleep generally. :-)

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:21:11 GMT, Rick wrote:

Einstien would use the phone book to find his own phone number.

Reputedly he was once stopped by the police and asked what the number of
the car he was driving was. His response (paraphrased), "I don't know
officer, but if you look at the end of the car I believe they put a
little plate there with it written on it".

Of course he's been banged up in Guantanamo ever since...

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:21:11 GMT, Rick wrote:


Einstien would use the phone book to find his own phone number.


Reputedly he was once stopped by the police and asked what the number of
the car he was driving was. His response (paraphrased), "I don't know
officer, but if you look at the end of the car I believe they put a
little plate there with it written on it".

Of course he's been banged up in Guantanamo ever since...

I once attended a talk given by the bloke wot wrote the 'Inspector
Morse' books. Colin Davis? He was asked if his books were 'true to
life' and he recounted tale of a car that had crashed through a front
hedge into a garden, reversed and driven off..

The police, when called, were uninterestd 'aren't you going to measure
tyre tracks or look at the crime scene?' he asked...'Nah. Useless' they
said...'Oh, you mean the fact that his front bumper and number plate are
lying under that bush is of no use to you?....'


;-)

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:21:11 GMT, Rick wrote:

Einstien would use the phone book to find his own phone number.
Reputedly he was once stopped by the police and asked what the
number of
the car he was driving was. His response (paraphrased), "I don't know
officer, but if you look at the end of the car I believe they put a
little plate there with it written on it".
Of course he's been banged up in Guantanamo ever since...

I once attended a talk given by the bloke wot wrote the 'Inspector
Morse' books. Colin Davis? He was asked if his books were 'true to
life' and he recounted tale of a car that had crashed through a front
hedge into a garden, reversed and driven off..

The police, when called, were uninterestd 'aren't you going to measure
tyre tracks or look at the crime scene?' he asked...'Nah. Useless' they
said...'Oh, you mean the fact that his front bumper and number plate
are lying under that bush is of no use to you?....'

Reminds me of a friend years ago who demolished someone's wall when he
took a corner too fast (prolly ****ed) - It popped the windscreen out
intact, with the tax disk on it

Police were round his house the next day

--
geoff