Hi, I checked the CV boots on my fwd phase II 2000 W Renault Scenic
yesterday and the ends closest to the wheels had slipped of slightly
(not completely).

Any idea how this happens?

On the other end of the CV boot (end nearer the centre of the car) is
a jubilee clip holding that end in place. There is nothing on the ends
that came loose. Should there be?

Thank you,

Neil

"nafuk" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I checked the CV boots on my fwd phase II 2000 W Renault Scenic
yesterday and the ends closest to the wheels had slipped of slightly
(not completely).

Any idea how this happens?

On the other end of the CV boot (end nearer the centre of the car) is
a jubilee clip holding that end in place. There is nothing on the ends
that came loose. Should there be?

Thank you,

Neil

originally there was probably a thin metal band. A diy repair with a cable
tie is fine , just re-check after you have used it a bit, as some vehicles
put too much strain on a cable tie when the wheels are turned, in which case
you will need the correct clamp, which may need a special tool to fit, and
probably is not available on its own !!

mrcheerful

"nafuk" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I checked the CV boots on my fwd phase II 2000 W Renault Scenic
yesterday and the ends closest to the wheels had slipped of slightly
(not completely).

Any idea how this happens?

On the other end of the CV boot (end nearer the centre of the car)
is
a jubilee clip holding that end in place. There is nothing on the
ends
that came loose. Should there be?


Yes there should be, and if the inner end really does have a jubilee
clip holding it then it's been well bodged !

The proper method uses a special clip that is made from steel wound
around it's self several times but a suitable replacement is a
standard cable tie (you will need a long one for the outer - wheel -
end of the boot). If the boot has been displaced for sometime there
will probably be a lot of grease deposited onto the hub area, you
really need to obtain a new sachet of this grease to replace what is
now missing, this is special CV grease and it is also horrid stuff to
work with - wear latex or similar gloves !....

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"nafuk" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I checked the CV boots on my fwd phase II 2000 W Renault Scenic
yesterday and the ends closest to the wheels had slipped of
slightly
(not completely).

Any idea how this happens?

On the other end of the CV boot (end nearer the centre of the car)
is
a jubilee clip holding that end in place. There is nothing on the
ends
that came loose. Should there be?


Yes there should be, and if the inner end really does have a jubilee
clip holding it then it's been well bodged !

The proper method uses a special clip that is made from steel wound
around it's self several times but a suitable replacement is a
standard cable tie (you will need a long one for the outer - wheel -
end of the boot). If the boot has been displaced for sometime there
will probably be a lot of grease deposited onto the hub area, you
really need to obtain a new sachet of this grease to replace what is
now missing, this is special CV grease and it is also horrid stuff to
work with - wear latex or similar gloves !....


There should be a clip each end.

Nowt wrong with jubilee clips, theyre the best option for the job.
Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come off.

Cable ties often work, but also often fail due to inadequate strength.
If they were really adequate, the originals would be the cheaper
plastic ties as well.


NT

wrote:


Nowt wrong with jubilee clips, theyre the best option for the job.

Indeed.


Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come off.

Some cars came with jubilee clips out of the factory.



--
Grunff

:::Jerry:::: laid this down on his screen :
Yes there should be, and if the inner end really does have a jubilee
clip holding it then it's been well bodged !

No true. Some repair kits are supplied complete with Jubilee clips,
others are supplied with cable ties.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

In article .com,
" says...

Nowt wrong with jubilee clips, theyre the best option for the job.
Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come off.

But they don't sit flush, which can supposedly cause problems.

Cable ties often work, but also often fail due to inadequate strength.
If they were really adequate, the originals would be the cheaper
plastic ties as well.

A few turns of soft iron wire (the green plastic coated stuff you use
for garden ties) will sometimes do a better job than a plastic tie.

wrote in message
oups.com...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"nafuk" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I checked the CV boots on my fwd phase II 2000 W Renault
Scenic
yesterday and the ends closest to the wheels had slipped of
slightly
(not completely).

Any idea how this happens?

On the other end of the CV boot (end nearer the centre of the
car)
is
a jubilee clip holding that end in place. There is nothing on
the
ends
that came loose. Should there be?


Yes there should be, and if the inner end really does have a
jubilee
clip holding it then it's been well bodged !

The proper method uses a special clip that is made from steel
wound
around it's self several times but a suitable replacement is a
standard cable tie (you will need a long one for the outer -
wheel -
end of the boot). If the boot has been displaced for sometime
there
will probably be a lot of grease deposited onto the hub area, you
really need to obtain a new sachet of this grease to replace what
is
now missing, this is special CV grease and it is also horrid stuff
to
work with - wear latex or similar gloves !....


There should be a clip each end.

I didn't say there shouldn't be, just that the clip apparently used is
wrong and a bodge.


Nowt wrong with jubilee clips, theyre the best option for the job.
Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come
off.

Oh right, so the people who frigging designed the joint / boot don't
know what they are doing but some bod on a newsgroup does ?!....

The part of the jubilee clip that contains the worm drive is far to
large, not only could foul the boot causing premature wear, it used on
the larger part of the joint (hub or gearbox side of the point) it
might foul castings and it could also cause the shaft to go out of
balance - although in most situation this will not be noticeable.


Cable ties often work, but also often fail due to inadequate
strength.
If they were really adequate, the originals would be the cheaper
plastic ties as well.


What is lacking here is due to the person doing the job me thinks,
seeing that I could well have replaced more CV boots of all
descriptions (without problems) than you have ever seen !...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
wrote:


Nowt wrong with jubilee clips, theyre the best option for the job.

Indeed.

NOT....



Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come
off.

Some cars came with jubilee clips out of the factory.


Care to name one ?....

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
snip

A few turns of soft iron wire (the green plastic coated stuff you
use
for garden ties) will sometimes do a better job than a plastic tie.

Indeed, that was the standard way of retaining BMC / BL CV boots if
the OE 'clip' was not available, any other clip would foul the hub
knuckle casting. Most people used engineering locking wire.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: laid this down on his screen :
Yes there should be, and if the inner end really does have a
jubilee
clip holding it then it's been well bodged !

No true. Some repair kits are supplied complete with Jubilee clips,
others are supplied with cable ties.


Are you talking about IE hits or cheap after market kits, I have never
seen Jubilee clips in any kit (OE or AM), most of the AM kits I've
worked with had cable ties if they didn't have OE style clips. Care to
name a make / supplier ?

It happens that :::Jerry:::: formulated :
Are you talking about IE hits or cheap after market kits, I have never
seen Jubilee clips in any kit (OE or AM), most of the AM kits I've
worked with had cable ties if they didn't have OE style clips. Care to
name a make / supplier ?

It is rather a long time since I last needed to replace one, but from
memory they used a thinner than your normal Jubilee clip... Probably to
avoiding the fouling you mention.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Care to name one ?....

Saab 900 (OG).


--
Grunff

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:24:24 +0100, "Harry Bloomfield"
wrote:

It happens that :::Jerry:::: formulated :
Are you talking about IE hits or cheap after market kits, I have never
seen Jubilee clips in any kit (OE or AM), most of the AM kits I've
worked with had cable ties if they didn't have OE style clips. Care to
name a make / supplier ?

It is rather a long time since I last needed to replace one, but from
memory they used a thinner than your normal Jubilee clip... Probably to
avoiding the fouling you mention.

Possibly the type of "jubilee" clip that had a nut and bolt to secure
it meaning the metal of the clip was flat to the boot and avoiding
tearing it as the modern jubilee clip would.
Stuart ...






Shift THELEVER to reply.

It happens that Stuart formulated :
Possibly the type of "jubilee" clip that had a nut and bolt to secure
it meaning the metal of the clip was flat to the boot and avoiding
tearing it as the modern jubilee clip would.
Stuart ...

Someone in part of the thread mentioned SAAB as using jubilee clips as
OEM. I think it probably was a SAAB when I last had to change a CV.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

Indeed.


Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come off.

Some cars came with jubilee clips out of the factory.

I was always told that the worm gear end caused the whole half-shaft to be
unbalanced, leading to subtle but wearing vibration ...

I'm sure there's someone here who could work out the torque cause by 1g
spinning about an axis of 6-10cm at 1000+rpm ?

Besides on many cars there isn't enough clearance for the worm gear.

The proper way is a roll of thinly cut (about 5mm) sheet metal, and a box of
metal fasteners. You wind the metal twice around the boot, cut it, and fold
about 1cm over one hole in the clip. You then use a special pair of pliers
(which also act as cutters for the above) and grip the metal whilst pulling
on the clip.

Result - a fitting which is better than new.

I believe Snap-On sell the kit. Pliers, metal band, and a box of clips.

Jethro_uk wrote:

I was always told that the worm gear end caused the whole half-shaft
to be
unbalanced, leading to subtle but wearing vibration ...

I'm sure there's someone here who could work out the torque cause by
1g
spinning about an axis of 6-10cm at 1000+rpm ?

compared to the out of balance on even a balanced roadwheel, tiny.
Compared to the vibration caused by travelling down a road,
imperceptible. A non issue.


Besides on many cars there isn't enough clearance for the worm gear.

might be a problem in those cases


I would not choose iron wire, as it cant put anywhere near as much
retaining force on without cutting into the plastic rubber.


NT

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jethro_uk wrote:

I was always told that the worm gear end caused the whole
half-shaft
to be
unbalanced, leading to subtle but wearing vibration ...

I'm sure there's someone here who could work out the torque cause
by
1g
spinning about an axis of 6-10cm at 1000+rpm ?

compared to the out of balance on even a balanced roadwheel, tiny.
Compared to the vibration caused by travelling down a road,
imperceptible. A non issue.

Err no, the hub / suspension is designed to cope with out of balance
wheels etc, a 'floating' driveshaft, mounted between two CV joints,
that is out of balance is another matter altogether...



Besides on many cars there isn't enough clearance for the worm
gear.

might be a problem in those cases


I would not choose iron wire, as it cant put anywhere near as much
retaining force on without cutting into the plastic rubber.


But it is better than a worm drive clip.

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com.

Nowt wrong with jubilee clips, theyre the best option for the job.
Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come
off.

Oh right, so the people who frigging designed the joint / boot don't
know what they are doing but some bod on a newsgroup does ?!....

why dont we try and keep this sensible. Bands are used in prodution
because theyre cheaper in materials and more importantly cheaper in
labour, ie quicker to fit. They have high enough reliability for the
job, but are not perfect, and do occasionally come off.


The part of the jubilee clip that contains the worm drive is far to
large, not only could foul the boot causing premature wear,

might be an issue on some cars, not the ones Ive worked on, which isnt
many.


it used on
the larger part of the joint (hub or gearbox side of the point) it
might foul castings

ditto. Any competent person can check it has clearance before fitting,
and if not use something else.


and it could also cause the shaft to go out of
balance - although in most situation this will not be noticeable.

this has neen adressed already. The vibration caused by a gram of worm
screw is imperceptible compared to the vibration transmitted to the
shaft by road conditions. It is not a genuine issue.


Cable ties often work, but also often fail due to inadequate
strength.
If they were really adequate, the originals would be the cheaper
plastic ties as well.

What is lacking here is due to the person doing the job me thinks,
seeing that I could well have replaced more CV boots of all
descriptions (without problems) than you have ever seen !...

Then why is it that manufactureres dont use the cheaper plastic ties?
They would if they were fully satisfactory. I suspect the deal is that
theyre not reliable enough for production, but reliable enough for
later repairs - which demand a significantly lower level of
reliability.


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip

might be an issue on some cars, not the ones Ive worked on, which
isnt
many.


That is the most accurate thing you have said in this thread so
far.

'nought said...

Jethro_uk wrote:
I'm sure there's someone here who could work out the torque cause by 1g
spinning about an axis of 6-10cm at 1000+rpm ?

70 MPH approx. Not sure about "torque", though, surely shome mishtake?

Jethro_uk wrote:

Indeed.


Better than the usual metal bands, which are weaker and can come off.

Some cars came with jubilee clips out of the factory.

I was always told that the worm gear end caused the whole half-shaft to be
unbalanced, leading to subtle but wearing vibration ...

I'm sure there's someone here who could work out the torque cause by 1g
spinning about an axis of 6-10cm at 1000+rpm ?

No torque.
(unless it hits something).
I assume you mean a radius of 3-5cm.
A=V^2/r
Surface speed at radius of 5cm and 1200RPM (20RPS) is 5*20*3.14... = 3m/s.
Or, A=9/.05 = 9*20 = 180m/s^2.
For a gram, that's an out-of-balance force of 18g.
In an assembly that'll weigh many kilos, this is not going to be
damaging.
It may show up as a little extra vibration.
Of course, the trivial solution to balance it out is to simply use two
clips, one pointing clockwise, one anti, with the heads spaced at 180 degrees.