Posted without comment G

I have pointed out that universities are the home of gun control. And if
you want to defeat gun control, you have to fight in at the root which is
the universities. Many of you, especially the libertarians, questioned the
fact that universities were leftist oriented. The release of a study that
shows how skewed to the left most American universities are should open your
eyes.

a.. A survey of 1,000 academics shows that there are seven Democrats for
every Republican in the humanities and social sciences. The
Democrat-Republican balance is 30-to-1 in anthropology and even 3-to-1 in
economics.

a.. A study of voter registration records shows that Democrats outnumber
Republicans 9-to-1 on the faculties of Berkeley and Stanford.

a.. The Center for Responsive Politics reports that the biggest donors to
John Kerry's campaign were employees from the University of California and
Harvard.

George Will: The Left's last paradise
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ill.61cb0.html
06:12 PM CST on Monday, December 6, 2004
By GEORGE WILL


WASHINGTON - Oh, well, if studies say so. The great secret is out: liberals
dominate campuses. Coming soon: "Moon Implicated in Tides, Studies Find."

One study of 1,000 professors finds that Democrats outnumber Republicans at
least seven to one in the humanities and social sciences. That imbalance,
more than double what it was three decades ago, is intensifying because
younger professors are more uniformly liberal than the older cohort that is
retiring.

Another study, of voter registrations records, including those of professors
in engineering and the hard sciences, found nine Democrats for every
Republican at Berkeley and Stanford. Among younger professors, there were
183 Democrats, six Republicans.

But we essentially knew this even before The American Enterprise magazine
reported in 2002 of examinations of voting records in various college
communities. Some findings about professors registered with the two major
parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:

Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.

Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.

Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.

UCLA: 141 liberals, 9 conservatives.

The nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics reports that in 2004, of the
top five institutions in terms of employee per capita contributions to
presidential candidates, the third, fourth and fifth were Time Warner,
Goldman Sachs and Microsoft. The top two were the California university
system and Harvard, both of which gave about 19 times more money to John
Kerry than to George Bush.

But George Lakoff, a linguistics professor at Berkeley, denies that academic
institutions are biased against conservatives. The disparity in hiring, he
explains, occurs because conservatives are not as interested as liberals in
academic careers. Why does he think liberals are like that? "Unlike
conservatives, they believe in working for the public good and social
justice." That clears that up.

A filtering process, from graduate school admissions through tenure
decisions, tends to exclude conservatives from what Mark Bauerlein calls
academia's "sheltered habitat." In a dazzling essay in The Chronicle of
Higher Education, Bauerlein, professor of English at Emory University and
director of research at the National Endowment for the Arts, notes that the
"first protocol" of academic society is the "common assumption" - that, at
professional gatherings, all the strangers in the room are liberals.

It is a reasonable assumption, given that in order to enter the profession,
your work must be deemed, by the criteria of the prevailing culture,
"relevant." Bauerlein says various academic fields now have regnant premises
that embed political orientations in their very definitions of scholarship:

Schools of education, for instance, take constructivist theories of learning
as definitive, excluding realists (in matters of knowledge) on principle,
while the quasi-Marxist outlook of cultural studies rules out those who
espouse capitalism. If you disapprove of affirmative action, forget pursuing
a degree in African-American studies. If you think that the nuclear family
proves the best unit of social well-being, stay away from women's studies.

This gives rise to what Bauerlein calls the "false consensus effect," which
occurs when, due to institutional provincialism, "people think that the
collective opinion of their own group matches that of the larger
population." There also is what Cass Sunstein, professor of political
science and jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, calls "the law of
group polarization." Bauerlein explains: "When like-minded people deliberate
as an organized group, the general opinion shifts toward extreme versions of
their common beliefs." They become tone-deaf to the way they sound to others
outside their closed circle of belief.

When John Kennedy brought to Washington such academics as Arthur Schlesinger
Jr., John Kenneth Galbraith, McGeorge and William Bundy and Walt Rostow, it
was said that the Charles River was flowing into the Potomac. Actually,
Richard Nixon's administration had an even more distinguished academic
cast - Henry Kissinger, Pat Moynihan, Arthur Burns, James Schlesinger and
others.

Academics, such as the next secretary of state, still decorate Washington,
but academia is less listened to than it was. It has marginalized itself,
partly by political shrillness and silliness that have something to do with
the parochialism produced by what George Orwell called "smelly little
orthodoxies."

Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations - except such
nations usually have the merit, such as it is, of candor about their
ideological monopolies. In contrast, American campuses have more insistently
proclaimed their commitment to diversity as they have become more
intellectually monochrome.

They do indeed cultivate diversity - in race, skin color, ethnicity, sexual
preference. In everything but thought.


George Will writes for The Washington Post. His e-mail address is
.

Professors need to teach non-partisanly

http://www.easternecho.com/cgi-bin/story.cgi?3633

Sajak Tweaks Hollywood . . . Again (on gun control)
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=5960

War, tolerance spurred college support for Kerry
http://thedaily.washington.edu/news....=11152&-search

Democrats STILL Don't Get It!
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/123...rticle083.html

Academic Thought Police
By Jeff Jacoby
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...e.asp?ID=16232

Ellen Goodman: Victims of college liberalism?
http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/200063-1717-021.html

What is wrong with Ellen Goodman's views on Colleges being liberal havens
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...5/114837.shtml


Gunner

"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do
so would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of
regaining power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well
please. The problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long
that, as a group, they themselves are no longer sure of their goals.
They are a collection of wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a
grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some want a Socialist, secular-humanist
state, others the repeal of the Second Amendment. Some want same
sex/different species marriage, others want voting rights for trees,
fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and complete
subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture that
walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view
the competing factions of Islamic fundamentalists. The latter hate
each other to the core, and only join forces to attack the US or
Israel. The former hate themselves to the core, and only join forces
to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

In article , Gunner says...

Posted without comment G

el-snipo-massivio

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. That'll
solve your problem.

Jim


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jim rozen wrote:
In article , Gunner
says...

Posted without comment G

el-snipo-massivio

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. That'll
solve your problem.

Jim

Beter still, ban all education, books, and non-Christian religions.
Crown the shrub king - effectively banning the Democrats.
Live 'happily' ever after.
(G)

Ken.

--
http://www.rupert.net/~solar
Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com

el-snipo-even more massivio


Wow! Jim and Ken, you guys sure presented a compelling, articulate opposing
view of Gunnar's O.T. post. I'm quite impressed with your, obviously,
superior intellect.

John

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. That'll
solve your problem.

What we REALLY need to do is first get God out of the schools completely,
then limit education to only a teacher's opinions, then only give grades
that make students feel good about themselves, then make sure that only the
lowest common denominator of thinking prevails and make sure that the
average education output is the lowest on the planet.

.....Never mind, somebody else already thought of that and implemented the
whole thing.

In article , John says...

Wow! Jim and Ken, you guys sure presented a compelling, articulate opposing
view of Gunnar's O.T. post. I'm quite impressed with your, obviously,
superior intellect.

I'm a convert to gunner's approach to life. I hereby
renounce everything I've learned in college - it was a waste
of time. Superior intellect is no longer the figure
of merit my friend, patriotism and loyalty are the new
stock in trade. I'm honestly suprised you are so far
behind the times with this 'brain' stuff. Get with it
man!

Jim


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"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

Posted without comment G

el-snipo-massivio

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. That'll
solve your problem.

And produce a whole new generation of Republicans?

On 7 Dec 2004 04:53:40 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Posted without comment G

el-snipo-massivio

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. That'll
solve your problem.

Jim

Say, Ive got an idea..why not address the issues raised in the
article? Or would that harm your world view in some fashion, which is
the reason you are attempting such a pitiful deflection?

As to education after the 8th grade..given the quality of education
our children appear to be not getting lately...Id have to say the Left
has already banned it. They are, after all, in charge of the
Education system in the US.....

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group, they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core, and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 07:36:29 -0800, "John" wrote:


el-snipo-even more massivio


Wow! Jim and Ken, you guys sure presented a compelling, articulate opposing
view of Gunnar's O.T. post. I'm quite impressed with your, obviously,
superior intellect.

John

New keyboard time.....I hate cleaning Mt. Dew (run through the nose),
off the monitor.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

In article , Gunner says...

Say, Ive got an idea..why not address the issues raised in the
article?

Yep. You think that universities are full of liberals who
like gun control. And that you want them to change. I'm
not exactly sure how you propose to convince them to change,
but posting stuff on the metalworking ng probably isn't going
to do the job. Most of them don't read it.

If you really want them to change I suggest you enroll in a
nearby college and give impressing your personal views on them
a try. Be sure to bring all your urls to show them.

Other than that, closing down all the post-secondary education
in the country is probably your only hope of achieving your
goal. Good luck.

Jim


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On 7 Dec 2004 04:53:40 -0800, jim rozen
calmly ranted:

In article , Gunner says...

Posted without comment G

el-snipo-massivio

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. That'll
solve your problem.

Haven't many of the liberal agendas already effectively done that,
Jim? Most college kids today couldn't pass an 8th grade Victorian
school test. (from 1895 or 1870, your choice)
http://www.snopes2.com/language/document/1895exam.htm
;-]


================================================== ========
CAUTION: Do not use remaining fingers as pushsticks!
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http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:40:20 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

Say, Ive got an idea..why not address the issues raised in the
article? Or would that harm your world view in some fashion, which is
the reason you are attempting such a pitiful deflection?

As to education after the 8th grade..given the quality of education
our children appear to be not getting lately...Id have to say the Left
has already banned it.

they haven't banned it, they've just stretched it out so that it takes
twelve to sixteen years.

I was listening to an Andy Griffith album the other night, recorded in
the 1960s, and he is re-tell the story of Anthony and Cleopatra. He has
Ceaser say on meeting Cleopatra "Ares mutantas longes vita, mutandus
brevis", which he translates as "As sure as the vine winds round the stump,
you are my darling, sugar lump." ("Even in High School he was good at
verses.") [You can try that out the next time your a-courting some young
thing. Either the Latin or his translation.
Anyway, it hit me, once again, that in the last hundred years, we have
gone from an Education Establishment which taught Latin and Greek in High
Schools, to one which offers Remedial English in Colleges.

They are, after all, in charge of the Education system in the US.....

But boy are they opposed to monopolies in other areas.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Most of the intelligentsia haven't studied history, so much
as they've absorbed the Correct Position on "History".

In article , pyotr filipivich
says...

Anyway, it hit me, once again, that in the last hundred years, we have
gone from an Education Establishment which taught Latin and Greek in High
Schools, to one which offers Remedial English in Colleges.

I would also point out for the record, that it was a heck of a lot
better for me that I took four years of drafting in high school,
instead of four years of Latin.

They're also teaching remedial math in colleges too.

Jim


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On 7 Dec 2004 13:49:04 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Say, Ive got an idea..why not address the issues raised in the
article?

Yep. You think that universities are full of liberals who
like gun control. And that you want them to change. I'm
not exactly sure how you propose to convince them to change,
but posting stuff on the metalworking ng probably isn't going
to do the job. Most of them don't read it.

If you really want them to change I suggest you enroll in a
nearby college and give impressing your personal views on them
a try. Be sure to bring all your urls to show them.

Other than that, closing down all the post-secondary education
in the country is probably your only hope of achieving your
goal. Good luck.

Jim

Jim, I posted it without comment. Seems that the studies cited pretty
well speak for themselves.

Now if you wish to continue making claims of what I think, perhaps you
should start taking the whole pill, rather than just half, once a day.

Dont like the article or the data contained in it? Do something about
it. Or are you simply in denial again? Your ox getting gored
perhaps? Hummmmm?????

Chuckle

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

In article , Larry Jaques says...

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. ...

Haven't many of the liberal agendas already effectively done that,
Jim?

Apparently not, gunner's got his panties in a twist about
colleges, so they're still accepting students at this point.

Jim


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On 7 Dec 2004 16:15:09 -0800, jim rozen
calmly ranted:

In article , Larry Jaques says...

Say I've got an idea. Why don't we just ban any education
beyond 8th grade in the US, by federal law. ...

Haven't many of the liberal agendas already effectively done that,
Jim?

Apparently not, gunner's got his panties in a twist about
colleges, so they're still accepting students at this point.

That proves they've banned education while allowing colleges
to continue to operate, churning out hopeless, indebted, somewhat
pre-trained McDrones.


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I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Ken Davey"
wrote back on Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:19:04 -0600
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Jim

Beter still, ban all education, books, and non-Christian religions.
Crown the shrub king - effectively banning the Democrats.

Feh - old hat, already been done, too late for the lefties.

All hail Joshua Norton, Emperor of North America and protector of
Mexico!

His first proclamation was to abolish the UN Congress. His second
proclamation banned the Democrat and Republican parties.




--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:53:46 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Posted without comment G
(snip)

Guns are precison tools, useful in skilled hands. That has always
been so regardless of political correctness.

Why do you blather on?

Do whatever ya wanna do, do you need a blessing?

In article , Gunner says...

Jim, I posted it without comment.

snort

The links *are* your opinion. You and them - the same.
It would be like me, saying I posted my comments above,
"without opinion."

Jim


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==================================================

WIthout going through this line by line -
Democrat does not = left wing nor does it = liberal; by the standards
of most people outside the US there is little difference between the
Republican and Democrat Parties, and they are both Right of Centre.
Further down Will makes the statement :
Some findings about professors registered with the two major
parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:

Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.

Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.

Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.

UCLA: 141 liberals, 9 conservatives.

I wasn't aware that people registered as Liberal or Conservative....

Chris

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:53:46 UTC, Gunner wrote:

Posted without comment G

I have pointed out that universities are the home of gun control. And if
you want to defeat gun control, you have to fight in at the root which is
the universities. Many of you, especially the libertarians, questioned the
fact that universities were leftist oriented. The release of a study that
shows how skewed to the left most American universities are should open your
eyes.

"Chris Lasdauskas" wrote in message
news:mPcurcJnILSl-pn2-DocpfhxDJnxb@localhost...
WIthout going through this line by line -
Democrat does not = left wing nor does it = liberal; by the standards
of most people outside the US there is little difference between the
Republican and Democrat Parties, and they are both Right of Centre.
Further down Will makes the statement :
Some findings about professors registered with the two major
parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:

Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.

Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.

Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.

UCLA: 141 liberals, 9 conservatives.

I wasn't aware that people registered as Liberal or Conservative....

Chris

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:53:46 UTC, Gunner wrote:

Posted without comment G

I have pointed out that universities are the home of gun control. And
if
you want to defeat gun control, you have to fight in at the root which
is
the universities. Many of you, especially the libertarians, questioned
the
fact that universities were leftist oriented. The release of a study
that
shows how skewed to the left most American universities are should open
your
eyes.

Back in '67/'68, when George Will was teaching political science at Michigan
State, he taught a course called "The Isms" (Poli Sci 170). It was
communism, socialism, fascism, and capitalism -- a 100-level survey course.

Anyway, he was one of the conservatives, and there were a couple of liberals
who taught other sections of the same course. I took the course from Will,
but I also watched the videos of lectures taught by one of the other two
(MSU was a pioneer in video distribution of lectures; 2-in. quad).

You couldn't tell any difference in what they taught or how they taught it.
And George Will knew this at the time. Will was by far the most dynamic of
the bunch, but there was no detectable coloration of what was taught by
either side.

He probably just resents the fact that nobody would eat lunch with him. g
(In fact, the residence college of policy science at MSU -- James Madison
Residence College -- had quite a few conservative professors at the time.
But not many conservative students.)

Ed Huntress

On 9 Dec 2004 20:27:39 +0700, "Chris Lasdauskas"
wrote:

WIthout going through this line by line -
Democrat does not = left wing nor does it = liberal; by the standards
of most people outside the US there is little difference between the
Republican and Democrat Parties, and they are both Right of Centre.

Right of Center? Only if you define Lenin as being in the center.

Further down Will makes the statement :
Some findings about professors registered with the two major
parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:

Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.

Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.

Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.

UCLA: 141 liberals, 9 conservatives.

I wasn't aware that people registered as Liberal or Conservative....

Many states require you registering by party.
Thats so they can give you the proper ballots.

As to the stats above..that was determined by asking them.
It seems you have reading comprehension problems as well.

Chris

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:53:46 UTC, Gunner wrote:

Posted without comment G

I have pointed out that universities are the home of gun control. And if
you want to defeat gun control, you have to fight in at the root which is
the universities. Many of you, especially the libertarians, questioned the
fact that universities were leftist oriented. The release of a study that
shows how skewed to the left most American universities are should open your
eyes.



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

In article , Ed Huntress says...

He probably just resents the fact that nobody would eat lunch with him. g
(In fact, the residence college of policy science at MSU -- James Madison
Residence College -- had quite a few conservative professors at the time.
But not many conservative students.)

That's my *other* problem with gunner's post. He asserts that
colleges are a hotbed for radical liberal staff. But at this
point I just cannot trust any numbers he links to.

Jim


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==================================================
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==================================================

I had a good friend that got his masters at Texas Tech - everyone
could talk to him before he spent one year and a summer there. Once
back, he was programmed so far left that few really wanted to talk.
Not all of us there were right wingers, some down right left types.

His masters was in a specific area and those in that area knew how to
program.

Martin

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Chris Lasdauskas" wrote in message
news:mPcurcJnILSl-pn2-DocpfhxDJnxb@localhost...

WIthout going through this line by line -
Democrat does not = left wing nor does it = liberal; by the standards
of most people outside the US there is little difference between the
Republican and Democrat Parties, and they are both Right of Centre.
Further down Will makes the statement :

Some findings about professors registered with the two major
parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:

Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.

Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.

Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.

UCLA: 141 liberals, 9 conservatives.

I wasn't aware that people registered as Liberal or Conservative....

Chris

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:53:46 UTC, Gunner wrote:


Posted without comment G

I have pointed out that universities are the home of gun control. And

if

you want to defeat gun control, you have to fight in at the root which

is

the universities. Many of you, especially the libertarians, questioned

the

fact that universities were leftist oriented. The release of a study

that

shows how skewed to the left most American universities are should open

your

eyes.


Back in '67/'68, when George Will was teaching political science at Michigan
State, he taught a course called "The Isms" (Poli Sci 170). It was
communism, socialism, fascism, and capitalism -- a 100-level survey course.

Anyway, he was one of the conservatives, and there were a couple of liberals
who taught other sections of the same course. I took the course from Will,
but I also watched the videos of lectures taught by one of the other two
(MSU was a pioneer in video distribution of lectures; 2-in. quad).

You couldn't tell any difference in what they taught or how they taught it.
And George Will knew this at the time. Will was by far the most dynamic of
the bunch, but there was no detectable coloration of what was taught by
either side.

He probably just resents the fact that nobody would eat lunch with him. g
(In fact, the residence college of policy science at MSU -- James Madison
Residence College -- had quite a few conservative professors at the time.
But not many conservative students.)

Ed Huntress




--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

On 11 Dec 2004 20:06:20 -0800, wrote:


** So, since both sides seem to be subject to "group think", to all our
detriment, I think the most important question to chew on is, "how can
each side be more open to the other side's views?"

http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/23194.html

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1654

http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/c..._03-04-24.html

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/d...20020821.shtml


The only way to make the Left open to the Rights ideas..is with a
shaped charge.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:32:36 UTC, Gunner
wrote:

On 9 Dec 2004 20:27:39 +0700, "Chris Lasdauskas"
wrote:

WIthout going through this line by line -
Democrat does not = left wing nor does it = liberal; by the standards
of most people outside the US there is little difference between the
Republican and Democrat Parties, and they are both Right of Centre.

Right of Center? Only if you define Lenin as being in the center.

No Gunner, by the standards of a website you referred to about a year
ago, the one which rated various politicians on their economic views
on one axis and thier social views on another one: Democrats and
Republicans clustered in the top right hand quadrant.
I wasn't aware that people registered as Liberal or Conservative....

Many states require you registering by party.

As I said "I wasn't aware that people registered as Liberal or
Conservative...." ; you've just described registering as a Democrat or
a Republican.

Thats so they can give you the proper ballots.

As to the stats above..that was determined by asking them.
It seems you have reading comprehension problems as well.

Coming from you, that's pretty rich !

Chris

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 05:49:09 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On 11 Dec 2004 20:06:20 -0800, wrote:


** So, since both sides seem to be subject to "group think", to all our
detriment, I think the most important question to chew on is, "how can
each side be more open to the other side's views?"

http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/23194.html

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1654

http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/c..._03-04-24.html

Excellent!


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/d...20020821.shtml

A bit over the Right edge, wot?


The only way to make the Left open to the Rights ideas..is with a
shaped charge.

Speaking of those, I just finished Robert Marcinko's "Rogue Warrior".
I was in tears laughing at some points. That was a truly great
autobiographical story. (I'm now 40 pages into my last unread Niven
book, "Ringworld Children" and rank his work right up there with
Asimov and Heinlein.)


--

From time to time, we have been tempted to believe that society has
become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by
an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people.
But if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who
among us has the capacity to govern someone else?
All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the
burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one
group singled out to pay a higher price.

-President Ronald Reagan
First Inaugural Address
Tuesday, January 20, 1981

Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

Republican. In the dictionary, it's right after reptilian and right
before repugnant.

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:10:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 05:49:09 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On 11 Dec 2004 20:06:20 -0800, wrote:


** So, since both sides seem to be subject to "group think", to all our
detriment, I think the most important question to chew on is, "how can
each side be more open to the other side's views?"

http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/23194.html

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1654

http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/c..._03-04-24.html

Excellent!


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/d...20020821.shtml

A bit over the Right edge, wot?

Not really. Go look at the NEA lesson plans. Then get back to me on
their content.


The only way to make the Left open to the Rights ideas..is with a
shaped charge.

Speaking of those, I just finished Robert Marcinko's "Rogue Warrior".
I was in tears laughing at some points. That was a truly great
autobiographical story. (I'm now 40 pages into my last unread Niven
book, "Ringworld Children" and rank his work right up there with
Asimov and Heinlein.)

I met him years ago. Dastardly Dicky is quite a charector. G

There are 3-4 other books of his out, I think..think...that they are
fictional..but with him..it would be hard to really know.

There are 7 books total I believe..the next one to read is:
Red Cell (which I believe to be largely factual..having known some of
of the players)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...867776-3667036

I tend to go more with Niven/Pournell works...Lucifers Hammer,
Footfall, the Bolo series..etc etc.

Lucifers Hammer is a great survivors book.. G

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:51:29 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
The only way to make the Left open to the Rights ideas..is with a
shaped charge.

Oohs, sig file time.

Speaking of those, I just finished Robert Marcinko's "Rogue Warrior".
I was in tears laughing at some points. That was a truly great
autobiographical story. (I'm now 40 pages into my last unread Niven
book, "Ringworld Children" and rank his work right up there with
Asimov and Heinlein.)

I met him years ago. Dastardly Dicky is quite a charector. G

There are 3-4 other books of his out, I think..think...that they are
fictional..but with him..it would be hard to really know.

I think the various books scenarios are fiction, but some of the bits
and pieces probably have a certain "well, it wasn't exactly like that, but
there was this one time ..."


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."