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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
Hi all
Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. Any advice thanked in advance. -- Regards, Mongke |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
An advantage of 220 is that you can use lighter gauge wire to feed the
outlet your welder is plugged into. This is hardly worth changing if the 110v circuit is of sufficient wireing size. Consult the welder's owner's manual. It should give some information re. sizing of branch circuit. Bob Swinney "mongke" wrote in message ... Hi all Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. Any advice thanked in advance. -- Regards, Mongke |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
In article ,
"mongke" wrote: Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. 208 is not 220. So use the 110 hookup. Connecting 208 to 220 equipment is usually a recipe for unpleasantness, up to and including magic smoke release. If you keep an eye out, you might well find a good deal of (and on) 208V 3 phase equipment, which is designed for that voltage and hard to sell on the used/hobby market since many home/hobby shops (and some commercial shops) do not have access to 3 phase. If you have a choice of 110 or 220, use the 220. -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:30:45 -0700, Derek vaguely
proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! There's sumpn about them, no doubt! ************************************************** *** It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it rammed down our throats. |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
"Derek" wrote in message ... I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! Sounds like you could use some shock therapy yourself--and fully deserved for such a foolish act of using a std plug for 220 v service. Im stopping just short of calling you an idiot, IOW. -- SVL |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:22:34 -0500, "mongke"
wrote: Hi all Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. Any advice thanked in advance. The 220 Volts (in houses in N. America) is achieved by hooking up two 110 Volt feeds that are "out of phase". So when the one is plus 110V, the other is at minus 110V, hence a potential difference of 220V. However, the second feed is connected to the Neutral side of the plug, not the live side!!!! I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:49:23 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote: In article , "mongke" wrote: Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. 208 is not 220. So use the 110 hookup. Connecting 208 to 220 equipment is usually a recipe for unpleasantness, up to and including magic smoke release. If you keep an eye out, you might well find a good deal of (and on) 208V 3 phase equipment, which is designed for that voltage and hard to sell on the used/hobby market since many home/hobby shops (and some commercial shops) do not have access to 3 phase. If you have a choice of 110 or 220, use the 220. Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:29:55 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email OK. I stand corrected. We cdon;t have the option, so I did not realise. Makes sense though. Sounds like you could use some shock therapy yourself--and fully deserved for such a foolish act of using a std plug for 220 v service. Im stopping just short of calling you an idiot, IOW. ************************************************** *** It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it rammed down our throats. |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
Derek wrote in
: On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:22:34 -0500, "mongke" wrote: Hi all snip I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! Well that's zactly what ya get fer lettin' wemmin in the dam garage!....;0) On another side to this thread I would add that it is not wise to use a 110V buzz box (or any Voltage for that matter) on a loooong extension cord of insufficient size to carry the load! Looked back from a small job out in the yard to see the wall on fire in the shop. oops. |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
Gunner sez: "Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a
Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder?" Errr, what is the HP of the Lincoln Edealarc 250, 3phase welder? It'd take a rotary made from an idler motor of at least 1-1/2 x the welder HP. More would be better, esp. if you weren't too careful with the caps. Bob Swinney "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:49:23 GMT, Ecnerwal wrote: In article , "mongke" wrote: Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. 208 is not 220. So use the 110 hookup. Connecting 208 to 220 equipment is usually a recipe for unpleasantness, up to and including magic smoke release. If you keep an eye out, you might well find a good deal of (and on) 208V 3 phase equipment, which is designed for that voltage and hard to sell on the used/hobby market since many home/hobby shops (and some commercial shops) do not have access to 3 phase. If you have a choice of 110 or 220, use the 220. Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
Derek wrote in message
I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! Change the plug today! Why kill the next poor fellow who buys your house, or your wife, or your kid? |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
You sure it's 3phase? Lincoln's lit sez it's single-phase. http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e270.pdf Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
It's bad practice to be sure, but no need for melodrama here. 220 is
household power in Europe, using plugs in some countries that are no bigger than our 110 volt plugs -- just different. You can get 220 volt 15-amp or 20-amp plugs and receptacles that fit in an ordinary box. They look like an ordinary plug except the prongs are sideways. It would be a good idea to change to that. More important: have the wiring feeding that box be compatible with the breaker protecting it at the source. 12 gage wire, 20 amp breaker. With 220 the breaker must be a dual breaker. They're not expensive. If you feed ordinary 12 or 14 gage wire from a stove or dryer circuit, you risk a fire with overload. On 11 Aug 2004 10:14:36 -0700, (alderotes) wrote: Derek wrote in message I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! Change the plug today! Why kill the next poor fellow who buys your house, or your wife, or your kid? |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
I forgot to answer the general question of how big an idler for a
3-phase welder. A singlephase Idealarc 250 draws 86 amps max at 230V. That's 19780 VA, or about what a 25 HP 230V singlephase motor would draw, so I'd think you'd need at least a 50HP idler. On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:38:07 GMT, Gunner wrote: Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:54:31 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote: You sure it's 3phase? Lincoln's lit sez it's single-phase. http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e270.pdf I was making a generic question. I tend to run across 3ph welders more economicly than single phase ones Gunner Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" "In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman Liebmann |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:17:31 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote: I forgot to answer the general question of how big an idler for a 3-phase welder. A singlephase Idealarc 250 draws 86 amps max at 230V. That's 19780 VA, or about what a 25 HP 230V singlephase motor would draw, so I'd think you'd need at least a 50HP idler. I was afraid of that..sigh.. Thanks for the info Gunner On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:38:07 GMT, Gunner wrote: Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" "In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman Liebmann |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
Don Could a 3 phase welder be made to work on single phase with some tolerable limitations of the capability of the original (3 phase) performance, without an idler? Jerry "Don Foreman" wrote in message ... I forgot to answer the general question of how big an idler for a 3-phase welder. A singlephase Idealarc 250 draws 86 amps max at 230V. That's 19780 VA, or about what a 25 HP 230V singlephase motor would draw, so I'd think you'd need at least a 50HP idler. On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:38:07 GMT, Gunner wrote: Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
Thas', ok, Gunner. Getcherself a 50 HP 230V single-phase idler motor and
we'll try to help you figure out ways to start it. Jim Rozen would say use a 35 HP pony for the task. Ooops, wait - there may be a problem starting the 35 HP pony. Maybe you could spin it up with a 10 or 15 HP machine. I'd say install separate service with 1000 amp breakers and then find about 3500 uFd of start caps; Oh! and maybe around 1500 uFd of run capacitance - that is if you didn't want it finely balanced, ala the "Fitch method"; that'd take a bit more. Or consider this: Just wrap a heavy rope around the idler's shaft and pull, pull pull! If the welder has a 220v outlet receptacle, plug the idler motor into that. Then when things come up to speed disconnect the AC mains and you'll have perpetual motion. Bob Swinney "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:17:31 -0500, Don Foreman wrote: I forgot to answer the general question of how big an idler for a 3-phase welder. A singlephase Idealarc 250 draws 86 amps max at 230V. That's 19780 VA, or about what a 25 HP 230V singlephase motor would draw, so I'd think you'd need at least a 50HP idler. I was afraid of that..sigh.. Thanks for the info Gunner On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:38:07 GMT, Gunner wrote: Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" "In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman Liebmann |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:30:45 -0700, Derek wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:22:34 -0500, "mongke" wrote: Hi all Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. Any advice thanked in advance. The 220 Volts (in houses in N. America) is achieved by hooking up two 110 Volt feeds that are "out of phase". So when the one is plus 110V, the other is at minus 110V, hence a potential difference of 220V. However, the second feed is connected to the Neutral side of the plug, not the live side!!!! I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! /Please/ tell me that after that accident you removed that mis-wired 120V receptacle, ran right out and got a proper 220V receptacle for the wall (and a matching cord cap for the welder) so someone couldn't do that again... People can get killed from dangerous shortcuts like that. -- Bruce -- -- Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545 Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:25:58 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: /Please/ tell me that after that accident you removed that mis-wired 120V receptacle, ran right out and got a proper 220V receptacle for the wall (and a matching cord cap for the welder) so someone couldn't do that again... Bruce..you are aware of the typical window AC 220 outlet with the two prongs turned 90 degrees from standard 110?m (- -) Right? New neighbors came over a couple years ago wanting to borrow a pair of pliers so they could bend the prongs on their tv cord to "stick it in that weird wall socket thingy" I loaned it to them..and before they made it out the front door it dawned on me what they were trying to do. Stopped em. The house later burned down because of an over load on a kitchen outlet according to the local paper. It was an older house with the screw in fuses, and they had done the penny under the fuse trick as the toaster, electric fry pan and the coffee maker used at the same time always blew the fuse. In the same outlet with a threeway adapter. Darwin was right. Gunner "In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman Liebmann |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
If your breaker and wire are big enough to handle the load, and you
could idle enough machines to equal 25 to 50 HP, I think you could do it. Don Gunner wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:17:31 -0500, Don Foreman wrote: I forgot to answer the general question of how big an idler for a 3-phase welder. A singlephase Idealarc 250 draws 86 amps max at 230V. That's 19780 VA, or about what a 25 HP 230V singlephase motor would draw, so I'd think you'd need at least a 50HP idler. I was afraid of that..sigh.. Thanks for the info Gunner On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:38:07 GMT, Gunner wrote: Anyone know how big a rotary converter it would take to run a Lincoln Idealarc 250, 3phase welder? Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" "In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman Liebmann |
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110v vs. 220v for welder
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:25:58 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:30:45 -0700, Derek wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:22:34 -0500, "mongke" wrote: Hi all Finally I got hold of an arc welder. It has of course wiring for both 110v and 220v. Now there is some advantage to use one or the other? I can get up to 50 amps for 110v. I have also 208v 3 wire 3 phase. Can one get (almost) 220v from there? I assume not as it would be two phases and not one phase + neutral. Any advice thanked in advance. The 220 Volts (in houses in N. America) is achieved by hooking up two 110 Volt feeds that are "out of phase". So when the one is plus 110V, the other is at minus 110V, hence a potential difference of 220V. However, the second feed is connected to the Neutral side of the plug, not the live side!!!! I have a German buzz box hooked up like this in my garage. It's designed to run at 50 Hertz at 220, but is fed 220 at 60 Hertz. That extra 10 Hertz sure gets it buzzing! Foolishly, I hooked it up through a regular wall outlet above my welder, with a sign warning that it was a 220V supply. A few years ago, my wife was outside and needed to plug in the baby monitor ...... guess which one she chose!! /Please/ tell me that after that accident you removed that mis-wired 120V receptacle, ran right out and got a proper 220V receptacle for the wall (and a matching cord cap for the welder) so someone couldn't do that again... People can get killed from dangerous shortcuts like that. -- Bruce -- Yup, see my follow-up post, it was replaced that week. Thanks. |
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