In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

It's even patented.

There's a serious shock hazard here. If you have a load plugged in
its 220V socket and turned on, and you pull out of the wall one of
the extension cords, you will have a male power plug with a hot prong
waiting to shock you. Right next to the ground prong of that plug.
(snip)

For those who do spark-stuff, this was kicking around
the antique radio ng.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:50:39 -0700, D.B. wrote:

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

It's even patented.

There's a serious shock hazard here. If you have a load plugged in
its 220V socket and turned on, and you pull out of the wall one of
the extension cords, you will have a male power plug with a hot prong
waiting to shock you. Right next to the ground prong of that plug.
(snip)

For those who do spark-stuff, this was kicking around
the antique radio ng.

Jim

I did a simple version in about 1960 so a friend could use
his 220v compressor in a house that didn't have any 220V
outlets.

It's amazing you can patent such an obvious simple idea that
has probably been used thousands of times in the past.

Dick


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Doesn't this thing work because there is 220 coming into the house and
1 hot from each side, along with the neutral is wired to the outlet?
So if two outlets are used that get their power from the different
legs of the 220 feed then you get 220. When I wired my shop one end
and one side are from one leg and the other two walls are from the
other leg. Connecting the right corners would get 220. And they want
$130.00? sheesh!
ERS

In article , Robert Casey says...
...
There's a serious shock hazard here. If you have a load plugged in
its 220V socket and turned on, and you pull out of the wall one of
the extension cords, you will have a male power plug with a hot prong
waiting to shock you. ...

Not necessarily. There is an interlock built into it. They say " [its]
safety interlock blocks all power to the 220 volt outlet until
electrical connections are complete and correct." Probably is a relay
since it consumes 4w.

Bob

Use this item to get 220 from 110 genarator set big enough will
run a well pump in a power outage

It is like a transformer or is a transformer step up you do not
understand that stuff i do

In the first house I built back in 62 I ran 3-12 conductors to all of my
kitchen outlet boxes which gave me two 110V circuits at each box on
either side of the neutral. My sears RAS ran like a pig on 110V so I
always ran it on 220V. In order to do that I made up an extension on
which I literally cut the 110V male plug down the center and pulled my
220V by plugging in to the hot side of each of the two outlets in the
same box. As long as you did not plug the saw into the extension there
was no danger of shock. You had to be careful not to unplug from the wall
with the saw switch on and of course there was never any need to do that.



Bill D

In article , HaroldA102 says...


It is like a transformer or is a transformer step up you do not
understand that stuff i do

Ah, so then you can explain why the particular item (which
according to you has a transformer inside of it) needs to
be plugged into two outlets, each outlet connecting to a
different hot leg of a residential service.

Such a transformer would have to be only an isolation tranformer,
because it is apparently being fed from a 240 volt source, and
is supplying 240 to the load.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Probably not, the 110 plugs are the same phase.

HaroldA102 wrote:
Use this item to get 220 from 110 genarator set big enough will
run a well pump in a power outage

On 24 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

It's even patented.

There's a serious shock hazard here. If you have a load plugged in
its 220V socket and turned on, and you pull out of the wall one of
the extension cords, you will have a male power plug with a hot prong
waiting to shock you. Right next to the ground prong of that plug.
(snip)

For those who do spark-stuff, this was kicking around
the antique radio ng.

Jim

================================================= =
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
================================================= =
They're asking over $100 for this piece of crap that anyone can build
for five bucks, an outlet receptacle in a box with the black wires of
two cords connected to the "hots", one ground connected and a 240v
pilot light across the "hots"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:24:55 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:50:39 -0700, D.B. wrote:

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

It's even patented.

There's a serious shock hazard here. If you have a load plugged in
its 220V socket and turned on, and you pull out of the wall one of
the extension cords, you will have a male power plug with a hot prong
waiting to shock you. Right next to the ground prong of that plug.
(snip)

For those who do spark-stuff, this was kicking around
the antique radio ng.

Jim

I did a simple version in about 1960 so a friend could use
his 220v compressor in a house that didn't have any 220V
outlets.

It's amazing you can patent such an obvious simple idea that
has probably been used thousands of times in the past.

Dick


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Doesn't this thing work because there is 220 coming into the house and
1 hot from each side, along with the neutral is wired to the outlet?
So if two outlets are used that get their power from the different
legs of the 220 feed then you get 220. When I wired my shop one end
and one side are from one leg and the other two walls are from the
other leg. Connecting the right corners would get 220. And they want
$130.00? sheesh!
ERS
No neutral in this.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On 25 Oct 2003 02:08:42 GMT, (HaroldA102) wrote:


It is like a transformer or is a transformer step up you do not
understand that stuff i do

LOL! Guess you told him!

On 24 Oct 2003 19:38:32 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , HaroldA102 says...


It is like a transformer or is a transformer step up you do not
understand that stuff i do

Ah, so then you can explain why the particular item (which
according to you has a transformer inside of it) needs to
be plugged into two outlets, each outlet connecting to a
different hot leg of a residential service.

Such a transformer would have to be only an isolation tranformer,
because it is apparently being fed from a 240 volt source, and
is supplying 240 to the load.

Nevermind, Jim. The likes of we don't understand such things. I
don't feel bad about it and neither should you. It's OK; stiff upper
lip, Mate.

It's even patented.


No patent was found under the current manufacturer.

In article , Tom Quackenbush wrote:
HaroldA102 wrote:

Use this item to get 220 from 110 genarator set big enough will
run a well pump in a power outage

I don't think so. It looks like it's "creating" 220v by using the
two 120 legs of a typical US house 220v residential service. That
wouldn't be the case with a generator that only creates 120v.

From their FAQ ( http://www.quick220.com/faq's1.htm#independent ) :

has anyone checked out the differential in the 4400w vs 3300 watt
U.S.A. plugs? 80.00(!), ouch. i wonder if the insides are any
different for the two models? my old standby, total rube and very
unsafe, method looks pretty good by comparison (just wire 220 to a
15a 110 jack, paint it red, and change the plug on the 220v gear
to match). --Loren


__________

"What do you mean by "independent 110 volt outlets?"
Technically, the AC voltage of the two outlets are 180 degrees out
of phase. Practically, you find the "independent outlet" by moving
the second power cord to different outlets until the green light on
the front panel goes on. About half the outlets in a building will be
"independent" of the other half.
__________

R,
Tom Q.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:57:29 GMT, someone who calls themselves Loren
Coe wrote:
In article , Tom Quackenbush wrote:
HaroldA102 wrote:

Use this item to get 220 from 110 genarator set big enough will
run a well pump in a power outage

I don't think so. It looks like it's "creating" 220v by using the
two 120 legs of a typical US house 220v residential service. That
wouldn't be the case with a generator that only creates 120v.

Yes, but from a small generator that is wired that way, it works.
Had to use the one-plug-on-each-circuit method, and warned the people
about how it works. If they kill themselves, I said the mandatory
"Kids, Don't try this at home!" ;-p

has anyone checked out the differential in the 4400w vs 3300 watt
U.S.A. plugs? 80.00(!), ouch. i wonder if the insides are any
different for the two models? my old standby, total rube and very
unsafe, method looks pretty good by comparison (just wire 220 to a
15a 110 jack, paint it red, and change the plug on the 220v gear
to match). --Loren

NO! Do NOT do that, use the right plugs and receptacles for
permanent uses. Someone who can't read (or just plugs in without
thinking first - even you!) is going to blow something up. The whole
reason behind changing the plug configurations is so you can't plug in
to the wrong voltage.

Where the heck are they charging those prices? You must be shopping
in the wrong places, with people who think that "Manufacturers
Suggested List Price" is only a starting point... "Builder's quality"
15A 120V duplex receptacles are under 50 cents each in quantity, but
even the fancy "mixed duplex" with a straight-blade 20A 120V on top
and a 20A 240V on the bottom are around $10 - $12. Even smaller
twistlock receptacles are under $20. $80 is up into IEC
pin-and-sleeve receptacle territory...

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA

WARNING: UCE Spam E-mail is not welcome here. I report violators.
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:48:46 GMT, Gerald Miller
brought forth from the murky depths:

On 24 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

They're asking over $100 for this piece of crap that anyone can build
for five bucks, an outlet receptacle in a box with the black wires of
two cords connected to the "hots", one ground connected and a 240v
pilot light across the "hots"

No, they're asking $130 or $210 for that same crap. thud

Also, in older homes (60's on back), all the outlets are on one leg
and all the lights on another. That box will never work with any home
using that style of electrical scheme. In newer homes, the balancing
is better, but most rooms have only one leg connected to the outlets.
You'd have to string extension cords (hence their modus operandi) to
other rooms every time. Not too cool.

My bogus gadget meter is pegged on BOGUS!


================================================== ===================
-=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards
-=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com
================================================== ===================

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:02:23 GMT, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:48:46 GMT, Gerald Miller
brought forth from the murky depths:

On 24 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

They're asking over $100 for this piece of crap that anyone can build
for five bucks, an outlet receptacle in a box with the black wires of
two cords connected to the "hots", one ground connected and a 240v
pilot light across the "hots"

No, they're asking $130 or $210 for that same crap. thud

Also, in older homes (60's on back), all the outlets are on one leg
and all the lights on another. That box will never work with any home
using that style of electrical scheme. In newer homes, the balancing
is better, but most rooms have only one leg connected to the outlets.
You'd have to string extension cords (hence their modus operandi) to
other rooms every time. Not too cool.

IF the home is wired according to code, there Will be split circuit
receptacles, particularly at the kitchen counter. By CODE, these are
ballanced - one on one side, one on the other.
IN THIS SITUATION they are safe. Particularly if the fuses are in
pullout blocks, or linked breakers are used.
Still overpriced, and I can't believe a patent would be issued. I did
it years ago.
My bogus gadget meter is pegged on BOGUS!


================================================= ====================
-=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards
-=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com
================================================= ====================

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:48:46 GMT, Gerald Miller
brought forth from the murky depths:

On 24 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Robert Casey says...

http://www.quick220.com/index.htm

They're asking over $100 for this piece of crap that anyone can build
for five bucks, an outlet receptacle in a box with the black wires of
two cords connected to the "hots", one ground connected and a 240v
pilot light across the "hots"

No, they're asking $130 or $210 for that same crap. thud

Also, in older homes (60's on back), all the outlets are on one leg
and all the lights on another. That box will never work with any home
using that style of electrical scheme. In newer homes, the balancing
is better, but most rooms have only one leg connected to the outlets.
You'd have to string extension cords (hence their modus operandi) to
other rooms every time. Not too cool.

My bogus gadget meter is pegged on BOGUS!

Sure it's bogus BS but Wow! You gotta love the way they packaged this
product. (two male plugs wired to one female plug with a 4 watt bulb wired
across the hot lines in a box) They must have apprenticed under a Snake
Oil seller! "All for a pittance".

It's kinda neat how they cover their ass by saying:

" 3. The "220 VOLT" lamp on the front panel lights immediately when you
have 220 volts. If it does not light, remove one of the power cords from
the wall outlet, and plug it into different outlets until it the lamp
lights."

*and plug it into different outlets until it the lamp lights*
*and plug it into different outlets until it the lamp lights*

Not the seller's fault if an individual does not have a 220V service and
*can't find* a second circuit that will deliver the 220 to the lamp and
plugin, to make it work. (^:

Bill D

HaroldA102 ) wrote:

: It is like a transformer or is a transformer step up you do not
: understand that stuff i do


At a weight of 5 lbs & 20 amps output that's some special transformer.
Must have unobtanium windings wound on a solididfied air core.


--
Howard Eisenhauer on **************************************
* *
Chebucto Community Network * Can't think of anything cute *
Halifax Nova Scotia * to put in here *
* *
**************************************

Bill ) wrote:


: Larry Jaques wrote:

: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:48:46 GMT, Gerald Miller
: brought forth from the murky depths:
:
: On 24 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0700, jim rozen
: wrote:
:
: In article , Robert Casey says...
:
: http://www.quick220.com/index.htm
:
: They're asking over $100 for this piece of crap that anyone can build
: for five bucks, an outlet receptacle in a box with the black wires of
: two cords connected to the "hots", one ground connected and a 240v
: pilot light across the "hots"
:
: No, they're asking $130 or $210 for that same crap. thud
:
: Also, in older homes (60's on back), all the outlets are on one leg
: and all the lights on another. That box will never work with any home
: using that style of electrical scheme. In newer homes, the balancing
: is better, but most rooms have only one leg connected to the outlets.
: You'd have to string extension cords (hence their modus operandi) to
: other rooms every time. Not too cool.
:
: My bogus gadget meter is pegged on BOGUS!

: Sure it's bogus BS but Wow! You gotta love the way they packaged this
: product. (two male plugs wired to one female plug with a 4 watt bulb wired
: across the hot lines in a box) They must have apprenticed under a Snake
: Oil seller! "All for a pittance".

: It's kinda neat how they cover their ass by saying:

: " 3. The "220 VOLT" lamp on the front panel lights immediately when you
: have 220 volts. If it does not light, remove one of the power cords from
: the wall outlet, and plug it into different outlets until it the lamp
: lights."

: *and plug it into different outlets until it the lamp lights*
: *and plug it into different outlets until it the lamp lights*

: Not the seller's fault if an individual does not have a 220V service and
: *can't find* a second circuit that will deliver the 220 to the lamp and
: plugin, to make it work. (^:

: Bill D


--
Howard Eisenhauer on **************************************
* *
Chebucto Community Network * Can't think of anything cute *
Halifax Nova Scotia * to put in here *
* *
**************************************

In article , Howard Eisenhauer says...

At a weight of 5 lbs & 20 amps output that's some special transformer.
Must have unobtanium windings wound on a solididfied air core.

Remember, 'he understands this, you don't.'

:^)

I think this is going to be my new catch phrase
here at work. You don't, I do. Nyah nyah!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Don Foreman says...

Nevermind, Jim. The likes of we don't understand such things. I
don't feel bad about it and neither should you. It's OK; stiff upper
lip, Mate.

sniff

Quivering upper lip and all.

:^)

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I would sort of object to your implication that you "understand
that stuff"

In the case of many smaller (4000 to 5000 watt) generators, the
110 circuit comes off some heavier wire on the lower side of the
circuit, the 220 comes off that cirucuit plus some smaller wire
on the upper side.

HaroldA102 wrote:
It is like a transformer or is a transformer step up you do not
understand that stuff i do

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:00:10 -0400, someone who calls themselves Tom
Quackenbush wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:50:01 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:57:29 GMT, someone who calls themselves Loren
Coe wrote:
In article , Tom Quackenbush wrote:
HaroldA102 wrote:

Use this item to get 220 from 110 genarator set big enough will
run a well pump in a power outage

I don't think so. It looks like it's "creating" 220v by using the
two 120 legs of a typical US house 220v residential service. That
wouldn't be the case with a generator that only creates 120v.

Yes, but from a small generator that is wired that way, it works.
Had to use the one-plug-on-each-circuit method, and warned the people
about how it works. If they kill themselves, I said the mandatory
"Kids, Don't try this at home!" ;-p

SNIP

Actually, I had that caveat in my response, but deleted it before I
posted. Do any small 120v generators actually use a CT 240v
transformer to provide their 120v? If so, I'd think they would come
equipped with 240v outlets as well. Otherwise, why add the extra
weight and expense of a transformer?

R,
Tom Q.

No transformers involved. The inexpensive "Contractor grade" 2KW to
4KW generator plants use a center-tapped 240V winding on the
alternator to provide two circuits of 120V. That makes the end shell
simple, two duplex 120V receptacles and a couple of cheap thermal
circuit breakers. It would raise the cost to add two more circuit
breakers and another receptacle for 240V, and these units are designed
to a price point.

If they were selling the exact same generator plant overseas they
would leave the center tap disconnected to get straight 240V, and
place the proper receptacle for that countries power plugs on the rear
shell of the alternator.

Or a set of connection lugs in a hardwire hookup box (with a lid to
keep wandering fingers out), and leave it as an excercise for the user
to make an adapter cord.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA
Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA

WARNING: UCE Spam E-mail is not welcome here. I report violators.
SpamBlock In Use - Remove the "Python" with a "net" to E-Mail.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:25:54 GMT, clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote:



IF the home is wired according to code, there Will be split circuit
receptacles, particularly at the kitchen counter. By CODE, these are
ballanced - one on one side, one on the other.
IN THIS SITUATION they are safe. Particularly if the fuses are in
pullout blocks, or linked breakers are used.
Still overpriced, and I can't believe a patent would be issued. I did
it years ago.
Splits only came into use in the mid '60s, but I never saw a house
wired with receptacles on one leg and lights on the other. When I
rewired my house in '78, I ended up with thirteen fuses feeding the
kitchen. I haven't done this house fully yet, but it only had two
circuits for each level.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:37:29 GMT, Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:25:54 GMT, clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote:



IF the home is wired according to code, there Will be split circuit
receptacles, particularly at the kitchen counter. By CODE, these are
ballanced - one on one side, one on the other.
IN THIS SITUATION they are safe. Particularly if the fuses are in
pullout blocks, or linked breakers are used.
Still overpriced, and I can't believe a patent would be issued. I did
it years ago.
Splits only came into use in the mid '60s, but I never saw a house
wired with receptacles on one leg and lights on the other. When I
rewired my house in '78, I ended up with thirteen fuses feeding the
kitchen. I haven't done this house fully yet, but it only had two
circuits for each level.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
The first house my dad owned, purchased in 1957, had 2 fuses.All
lights (5 or 6 drop cords) on one side, all receptacles (I think 3 0r
4) on the other side. All knob and tube wiring. 30 amp service?
Anyway, Dad being an electrician, that was the first thing to be
changed.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:44:24 GMT, clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote:


The first house my dad owned, purchased in 1957, had 2 fuses.All
lights (5 or 6 drop cords) on one side, all receptacles (I think 3 0r
4) on the other side. All knob and tube wiring. 30 amp service?
Anyway, Dad being an electrician, that was the first thing to be
changed.
When we got hydro in '48, there were a couple of "Electricians" who
would wire the whole house for IIRC $200. The "Inspector" would let
them away with a two fuse 30A disconnect 'service panel' fed by two
#10 wires in 3/4 conduit. I don't recall how they handled the meter,
which at that time, went between the main disconnect and the fuse
panel. The stuff hit the fan a couple years down the road when people
started getting used to having electricity and bought a few
appliances, such as electric stoves.
My Dad was considered an idiot for putting in such a heavy duty
service ( 75A., 220V. )
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"D.B." wrote in message t...
I did a simple version in about 1960 so a friend could use
his 220v compressor in a house that didn't have any 220V
outlets.

It's amazing you can patent such an obvious simple idea that
has probably been used thousands of times in the past.

Dick


I agree, its bull. My electronics shop teacher told us about 220 circuit crossover
effects in 1975. Rocket science it ain't. But come to think of it, patent examiners
are not exactly rocket scientists themselves

"D.B." wrote in message t...
As another poster mentioned there are potential shock
problems. If you popped a circuit breaker, chances are only
one would pop and the other leg would remain hot.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Dick


The 220 breakers are dual, and break the entire circuit. But you have to assume by the site that
the box attempts to prevent that.

Bottom line is this unit is for people afraid to open their circuit box and do the job right.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ...
Also, in older homes (60's on back), all the outlets are on one leg
and all the lights on another. That box will never work with any home
using that style of electrical scheme. In newer homes, the balancing
is better, but most rooms have only one leg connected to the outlets.
You'd have to string extension cords (hence their modus operandi) to
other rooms every time. Not too cool.

My bogus gadget meter is pegged on BOGUS!

I don't know. For instance, I am in the process of wiring my shop, and its very
tempting to say you will only use one phase in there. After all, you could get
across two plugs.

However, that would also defeat the idea of ballancing the load there, and make
it that much more likely that you will trip a breaker while operating that nice
arc welder.

Scott Moore wrote:

However, that would also defeat the idea of ballancing the load there, and make
it that much more likely that you will trip a breaker while operating that nice
arc welder.

That's an interesting comment Scott. I have oh so often heard people speak of balancing the load. What are
the concerns about this balanced load issue?

Bill D

In article , Bruce L Bergman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:57:29 GMT, someone who calls themselves Loren
Coe wrote:
In article , Tom Quackenbush wrote:
HaroldA102 wrote:

Use this item to get 220 from 110 genarator set big enough will
run a well pump in a power outage

I don't think so. It looks like it's "creating" 220v by using the
two 120 legs of a typical US house 220v residential service. That
wouldn't be the case with a generator that only creates 120v.

Yes, but from a small generator that is wired that way, it works.
Had to use the one-plug-on-each-circuit method, and warned the people
about how it works. If they kill themselves, I said the mandatory
"Kids, Don't try this at home!" ;-p

has anyone checked out the differential in the 4400w vs 3300 watt
U.S.A. plugs? 80.00(!), ouch. i wonder if the insides are any
different for the two models? my old standby, total rube and very
unsafe, method looks pretty good by comparison (just wire 220 to a
15a 110 jack, paint it red, and change the plug on the 220v gear
to match). --Loren

NO! Do NOT do that, use the right plugs and receptacles for
permanent uses. Someone who can't read (or just plugs in without
thinking first - even you!) is going to blow something up. The whole

yes, exactly, _me_! after years of using it i plugged my shop vac
into it. it immediately sucked onto the concrete floor so fast i
could not move the wand. duhhhh...., as i was yanking the cord the
motor started sparking and smoking.

next time, i will also paint the jack red and install a cover of
some type with further warnings.

reason behind changing the plug configurations is so you can't plug in
to the wrong voltage.

Where the heck are they charging those prices? You must be shopping
in the wrong places, with people who think that "Manufacturers
Suggested List Price" is only a starting point... "Builder's quality"
15A 120V duplex receptacles are under 50 cents each in quantity, but
even the fancy "mixed duplex" with a straight-blade 20A 120V on top
and a 20A 240V on the bottom are around $10 - $12. Even smaller
twistlock receptacles are under $20. $80 is up into IEC
pin-and-sleeve receptacle territory... -- Bruce --

yes, agreed, and even lower grade plugs get pricey in 20+ amp 240v
configurations, one of the reasons i have done the rube 110-240
thing. not that i would recommend it... remember that you have
to buy jack _and_ plug.

i have worked most of my adult life with computers/computer rooms,
and am consantly amazed at the prices of "Stoval" plugs and jacks,
and at how many are just scrapped when the equipment is retired.

Regards, --Loren

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:59:16 -0500, Bill wrote:
Scott Moore wrote:

However, that would also defeat the idea of ballancing the load there, and make
it that much more likely that you will trip a breaker while operating that nice
arc welder.

That's an interesting comment Scott. I have oh so often heard people speak of balancing the load. What are the concerns about this balanced load issue?

If the load is balanced, there's zero net current in the neutral leg.
That almost never happens in practice, of course, so the neutral
leg has to be sized to handle some net current. In a completely
unbalanced case, it has to be as large as either of the hot legs.
Balancing the load doesn't actually reduce the required size of
the neutral because the Code requires it to be sized for the fully
unbalanced case.

Of course if the load is completely unbalanced, then you're only
using half of the main breaker. If you balance the load, you get to
use both sides of the main, and can draw up to twice as much
total 110 volt current as you could if it were totally unbalanced.

Note that every other breaker in a row in a normal entrance box
is on the opposite leg. So just filling the rows with equal size
110 breakers automatically balances the box. Of course any
220 breaker is automatically balanced since it connects to
both hot legs.

Gary

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:59:16 -0500, Bill
brought forth from the murky depths:



Scott Moore wrote:

However, that would also defeat the idea of ballancing the load there, and make
it that much more likely that you will trip a breaker while operating that nice
arc welder.

That's an interesting comment Scott. I have oh so often heard people speak of balancing the load. What are
the concerns about this balanced load issue?

If you're going to run several 120v machines at once, you try to
balance the current draw between the legs so you don't pop breakers.
For 240v, make separate runs from separate breakers. When I removed
the 240v baseboard heaters in this new (to me) house, I had several
spare breakers. I ran 3 lines for the larger shop equipment (all WW)
in 3 areas of the shop and it worked fine. The table saw, bandsaw,
dust collector, and lights are all on separate circuits.


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Larry, and Gary!!

Your posts set the record straight. The reason I asked is that somewhere in my dark past I was told that it was
for reasons of economy. The reason being was that the meter *was said* only to read current through the high
side and that value was simply doubled in calculating your usage. Meaning that if you were to only use one side
at any given time then you true usage would be exactly half of what you were being charged. (so that is just a
fable)

So thanks again
Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:59:16 -0500, Bill
brought forth from the murky depths:



Scott Moore wrote:

However, that would also defeat the idea of ballancing the load there, and make
it that much more likely that you will trip a breaker while operating that nice
arc welder.

That's an interesting comment Scott. I have oh so often heard people speak of balancing the load. What are
the concerns about this balanced load issue?

If you're going to run several 120v machines at once, you try to
balance the current draw between the legs so you don't pop breakers.
For 240v, make separate runs from separate breakers. When I removed
the 240v baseboard heaters in this new (to me) house, I had several
spare breakers. I ran 3 lines for the larger shop equipment (all WW)
in 3 areas of the shop and it worked fine. The table saw, bandsaw,
dust collector, and lights are all on separate circuits.

--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

jim rozen ) wrote:
: In article , Howard Eisenhauer says...

: At a weight of 5 lbs & 20 amps output that's some special transformer.
: Must have unobtanium windings wound on a solididfied air core.

: Remember, 'he understands this, you don't.'

: :^)

: I think this is going to be my new catch phrase
: here at work. You don't, I do. Nyah nyah!

: Jim

: ==================================================
: please reply to:
: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
: ==================================================


Actually, I don't know what in hell I was thinking about.

I of course meant "A Laminated Air Core", wouldn't want those eddy
currents, er-um- breezes, wasting power ;.


I guess I really don't undertand .


--
Howard Eisenhauer on **************************************
* *
Chebucto Community Network * Can't think of anything cute *
Halifax Nova Scotia * to put in here *
* *
**************************************

Yea, I learned a few things too.

"Bill" wrote in message ...
Thanks Larry, and Gary!!

Your posts set the record straight. The reason I asked is that somewhere in my dark past I was told that it was
for reasons of economy. The reason being was that the meter *was said* only to read current through the high
side and that value was simply doubled in calculating your usage. Meaning that if you were to only use one side
at any given time then you true usage would be exactly half of what you were being charged. (so that is just a
fable)

So thanks again
Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:59:16 -0500, Bill
brought forth from the murky depths:



Scott Moore wrote:

However, that would also defeat the idea of ballancing the load there, and make
it that much more likely that you will trip a breaker while operating that nice
arc welder.

That's an interesting comment Scott. I have oh so often heard people speak of balancing the load. What are
the concerns about this balanced load issue?

If you're going to run several 120v machines at once, you try to
balance the current draw between the legs so you don't pop breakers.
For 240v, make separate runs from separate breakers. When I removed
the 240v baseboard heaters in this new (to me) house, I had several
spare breakers. I ran 3 lines for the larger shop equipment (all WW)
in 3 areas of the shop and it worked fine. The table saw, bandsaw,
dust collector, and lights are all on separate circuits.

--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:04:18 GMT, "Scott Moore"
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

Well, one of them was. That's where Einstein started out IIRC.

I agree, its bull. My electronics shop teacher told us about 220 circuit crossover
effects in 1975. Rocket science it ain't. But come to think of it, patent examiners
are not exactly rocket scientists themselves


************************************************** ****************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

"Old Nick" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:04:18 GMT, "Scott Moore"
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:

Well, one of them was. That's where Einstein started out IIRC.

I agree, its bull. My electronics shop teacher told us about 220 circuit crossover
effects in 1975. Rocket science it ain't. But come to think of it, patent examiners
are not exactly rocket scientists themselves

I think this is one of the great paradoxes. However, he was a Swiss patent examiner.
Maybe they have their act together

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:08:33 +0800, Old Nick wrote:
Well, one of them was. That's where Einstein started out IIRC.

Einstein was no rocket scientist, he knew nothing about plumbing.

Gary