Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #71   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 03:03 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:50:40 -0700, Nashville Cats wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:04:19 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 5:19:26 PM UTC-4, Nashville Cats wrote:

They don't have to be credible to be outrageous and unacceptable. He
insists they are credible, and that he never lies. Which makes him a
bald faced liar AND a deadbeat phony conservative who deserves
everything he gets here. You say nothing about any of it because
you're fine with every stupid lie he's ever told. And I'm fine with
you being fine. But you think I should want to please you in any way?
**** that. You're an enabler, and your whining about nyms and nonsense
fits your tribe perfectly.


I just think that RCM ought to be about RCM.


I used to think that. But eventually I realized that people like you
had let the thing deteriorate to the point that it was mostly just
another echo chamber for rightards to parrot each others' idiotic
ideology, and in the words of Triumph, only good for me to poop on.

I do not say anything, because
" Frankly my dear, I do not give a damn ".


So you got what you deserved.

If you do not want to discuss metalworking, that is fine by me. But I would prefer you did not post a lot of other stuff in RCM.


Too bad you didn't care what I wanted, the same as I don't care now
what you want.

I do not whine about nyms,


It's a silly thing you resort to when you run out of equally weak
things to write.

but I also think that most people that use nyms post a lot of crap that they do not want associated with their real names.


Posts have content that can be good or bad. Plenty of the crap that's
posted here is under a real name, and your selective memory and
logical fallacy are good examples.

I do not think I am an enabler and do not consider myself as being in a tribe.


What you think doesn't change the reality of the situation.

You seem to think not commenting is enabling


It is. You were tolerant of extreme BS. It's fair to assume you like
some of it, probably most of it. Many of the less tolerant left for
better groups. Which is pretty much any group. RCM and its crossposted
kin are the only place one can find mention of "the great cull" for
example, and the repeated assertions that "Hitler was a
Socialist/Fascist just like US liberals" Did you think those sorts of
things would attract interesting metalworkers?

and want to stuff everyone into a cubby hole so you can consider every one the same.


You aren't in a cubby hole. It's more of an outhouse.


It's too bad. I was here before the cross posting started. There was
lots of discussion about amateur metalworking.

First, it was Gunner, around 15 years ago. He cross posted to
misc.survivalism and the nutbags started to crawl in. Then he added a
couple more NGs.

Then Cliff (now deceased) picked up the mantle and made it worse. A
couple of cranks from other NGs started cross-posting to *here*, but
that seems to have died down.

Now it's mostly Kopypasta Keller, the dirtbag for all seasons and a
moral cretin. He takes a dump on four or five NGs at a time, usually
calculated for maximum cross provocation.

As someone once said, I'd never wish anyone dead, but there are
certain obituaries that it would give me great pleasure to read.

--
Ed Huntress





  #72   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 04:49 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 2,007
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

Good explanation - sometimes the ends are also wound in the
correct direction naturally to enhance the field in that pole.

Martin

On 7/16/2017 8:47 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2017-07-16, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:36:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:18:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 05:24:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:18:53 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
I picked one of these up this week and dont really know the proper way
to use it.

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg

Its an Ideal 13-001 demagnitizer.

Thanks

Gunner


[ ... ]

that was not for this PARTICULAR 3 module magnitizer. I was asking
about the Ideal 13-001 demagnitizer..not "generic plate demagnitizer"

titter

So tell me..what are the (3) modules used for? There is "NO" plate on
this unit. There are (3) metal gizmos protruding from a plastic
cover.


What you have is a coil wound on the "E" laminations of a
transformer core. Shape of a single one is rather like this:

XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If you look closely at the "modules" you will see that they are
made of multiple pieces of thin metal (a metal which is easy to
magnetize and demagnize.) They are stacked together and usually
combined with "I" laminations (which look like this:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And in normal transformer constructions one 'E' lamination will
put the bar at the bottom and the next will put it at the top, which
the 'I' laminations joining across the the three pole pieces.

For the demagnetizer, you throw out (or never purchase) the 'I'
laminations, and point all of the "E" ones the same way. Wind a coil on
a square bobbin and slide it onto the center pole piece. This produces
a magnetic circuit which puts the North pole on the center and the South
on the two end ones for one half cycle, and then reversed on the next
half cycle.

Once the coil is wound and put over the center pole, the whole
thing is put in a box (poles down), and epoxy is poured in and allowed
to harden. Then maybe go to a belt sander once it is hardened and grind
a little off so the pole pieces are exposed. (Or, maybe put a slab of
plastic over the end so nothing gets hooked on the edges of the pole
pieces.)

(Oh yes -- connect an AC cord to the winding first. :-)

I made such a demagnetizer once.

Depending on how many turns, you may be able to leave it
connected to the AC line full time, or maybe have to limit it to no more
than perhaps five minutes, to keep it from overheating.

And how are they used and for what reason?


Plug it in, and slowly draw the piece of metal over all three
pole pieces until you are fully off them by maybe 6 to 8 inches. Then
turn off the power, or draw a second object over it.

If you want to magnetize instead, add a rectifier in series with
the power line and put the piece there, apply power for a few seconds
and remove the power. This will magnetize it where the pole pieces are
and between them. With the DC -- you may need a lower voltage to keep
the current within reason.

the 2 small end modules are used differently than the larger center
module?


They are used together -- to demagnetize or magnetize.

titter

How are they used?


Described above.

titter

And so forth.

titter

This is a plate demagnitizer

http://www.shars.com/files/products/...2-1170Main.jpg


Same thing, but with a stainless steel cover plate over the pole
pieces.. (likely 300 series non-magnetic stainless.)


This is what I own:

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg

Plate?


As I described above. You can see the ends of the pole pieces
and the epoxy (or perhaps poured tar). And a partial cover over the
edges.

titter

Thank you for your kind commentary however.

titter


Enjoy,
DoN.

  #73   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 06:27 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 32
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On 7/17/2017 7:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
First, it was Gunner, around 15 years ago. He cross posted to
misc.survivalism and the nutbags started to crawl in. Then he added a
couple more NGs.


Gunner would eat you like jerky, you least coast prickfarm.
  #74   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 02:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:47:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I found that if I simply stand the tool vertically on the center mass,
and turn the power on for 5-10 seconds, then turn it off..it
magnitizes the tool well enough for my purposes.


Gunner, you don't need the time. During the time you hold the switch
down, the unit is demagnetizing the unit. What does the magnetizing
is opening the switch on a current peak. The high delta-I/delta-T
causes a step change in the magnetic field and that does the
magnetizing.

This process generates more or less magnetism, depending on the luck
of when you open the switch on the 60 Hz half-cycle. At most, though,
you're dealing with only 120 volts.

The MSD ignition box fires multiple 450 volt pulses into the "coil"
every time it is triggered - normally with opening points (a normally
closed switch in your case. Here's a cheap one on sleazebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361957443181

The demagnetizer probably has more induction than is optimum. Once
you have the MSD box, you can make a more optimum magnetizer by
bundling steel welding rods together to make about a 1 inch bundle
about 8" long. Wrap the bundle with electrical tape and then perhaps
50 turns of electrical wire. Preferably magnet wire but ordinary wire
will do. Gauge doesn't much matter, though I'd use 14 gauge or
larger.

This will magnetize the tool to the extent that you have to actually
tug on the screw to get it off.

An alternative approach that isn't as effective but is cheaper is to
use a fairly good size super-magnet and stroke the tool in the same
direction every time for maybe 10-20 strokes. This drags the magnetic
domains into alignment. It isn't as effective as the capacitor
discharge technique but the only cost is the super-magnet.

I maintain a set of strongly magnetized tools and another set of
demagnetized tools. One can't imagine the handiness of a combination
wrench being able to hold a nut in place in a practically inaccessible
place while the bolt is turned to start the threads.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

  #75   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 03:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 19
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:52:04 -0400, Neon John wrote:

One can't imagine the handiness of a combination
wrench being able to hold a nut in place in a practically inaccessible
place while the bolt is turned to start the threads.


I haven't wanted that feature since I can't remember when, and I turn
my share of wrenches. Although last week I needed some spark plugs
captive in a socket. I put a piece of electrical tape over the edge of
the socket at a hex corner, and got the perfect amount of friction
hassle-free.


  #76   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 03:50 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,243
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:52:04 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:47:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I found that if I simply stand the tool vertically on the center mass,
and turn the power on for 5-10 seconds, then turn it off..it
magnitizes the tool well enough for my purposes.


Gunner, you don't need the time. During the time you hold the switch
down, the unit is demagnetizing the unit. What does the magnetizing
is opening the switch on a current peak. The high delta-I/delta-T
causes a step change in the magnetic field and that does the
magnetizing.


Really? Then why does it provide more of a magnetif field when I keep
it on more than 5 seconds, than if I do a Off/On/Off blip? I was
curious about that when I tried it.

This process generates more or less magnetism, depending on the luck
of when you open the switch on the 60 Hz half-cycle. At most, though,
you're dealing with only 120 volts.


Yes.

The MSD ignition box fires multiple 450 volt pulses into the "coil"
every time it is triggered - normally with opening points (a normally
closed switch in your case. Here's a cheap one on sleazebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361957443181

The demagnetizer probably has more induction than is optimum. Once
you have the MSD box, you can make a more optimum magnetizer by
bundling steel welding rods together to make about a 1 inch bundle
about 8" long. Wrap the bundle with electrical tape and then perhaps
50 turns of electrical wire. Preferably magnet wire but ordinary wire
will do. Gauge doesn't much matter, though I'd use 14 gauge or
larger.


Cool!

This will magnetize the tool to the extent that you have to actually
tug on the screw to get it off.


Ill try that!

An alternative approach that isn't as effective but is cheaper is to
use a fairly good size super-magnet and stroke the tool in the same
direction every time for maybe 10-20 strokes. This drags the magnetic
domains into alignment. It isn't as effective as the capacitor
discharge technique but the only cost is the super-magnet.


Ive used the little tool with the steps and hole in it before..and
they work well enough on small items.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IIT-90262-Ma...-/152411079048


I maintain a set of strongly magnetized tools and another set of
demagnetized tools. One can't imagine the handiness of a combination
wrench being able to hold a nut in place in a practically inaccessible
place while the bolt is turned to start the threads.


Indeed! As a service tech...I find them to be invaluable. I loaned
my above small magnitizer/demagnizer to a guy at a shop..and left
before remembering to get it back. Ive never replaced it...Harbor
Freight doesnt sell them anymore.



John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #77   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 04:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:03:48 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:


It's too bad. I was here before the cross posting started. There was
lots of discussion about amateur metalworking.

First, it was Gunner, around 15 years ago. He cross posted to
misc.survivalism and the nutbags started to crawl in. Then he added a
couple more NGs.

Then Cliff (now deceased) picked up the mantle and made it worse. A
couple of cranks from other NGs started cross-posting to *here*, but
that seems to have died down.

Now it's mostly Kopypasta Keller, the dirtbag for all seasons and a
moral cretin. He takes a dump on four or five NGs at a time, usually
calculated for maximum cross provocation.

As someone once said, I'd never wish anyone dead, but there are
certain obituaries that it would give me great pleasure to read.


It boils down to the unmoderated nature of Usenet. For on-topic stuff
I use groups like the one I linked to in my email. Advantages there,
and at most all such groups, are categorization, popular threads
pinned, FAQs, and built-in searching by category and author. Here's
another I've been reading. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ I could
spend days if I had time, without ever having to wade through gun
crap, BS artists, etc. My suggestion for a more appropriate name for
RCM: DSSBPL (Disgruntled SS Beneficiaries Pretending to be
Libertarians)
  #78   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 04:54 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 112
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:08:55 -0700, Nashville Cats wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:03:48 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:





It's too bad. I was here before the cross posting started. There

was
lots of discussion about amateur metalworking.

First, it was Gunner, around 15 years ago. He cross posted to
misc.survivalism and the nutbags started to crawl in. Then he

added a
couple more NGs.

Then Cliff (now deceased) picked up the mantle and made it worse. A
couple of cranks from other NGs started cross-posting to *here*,

but
that seems to have died down.

Now it's mostly Kopypasta Keller, the dirtbag for all seasons and a
moral cretin. He takes a dump on four or five NGs at a time,

usually
calculated for maximum cross provocation.

As someone once said, I'd never wish anyone dead, but there are
certain obituaries that it would give me great pleasure to read.



It boils down to the unmoderated nature of Usenet. For on-topic

stuff
I use groups like the one I linked to in my email. Advantages there,
and at most all such groups, are categorization, popular threads
pinned, FAQs, and built-in searching by category and author. Here's
another I've been reading. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ I could
spend days if I had time, without ever having to wade through gun
crap, BS artists, etc. My suggestion for a more appropriate name for
RCM: DSSBPL (Disgruntled SS Beneficiaries Pretending to be
Libertarians)


What about ****s in dresses? Are there a lot of ****s in dresses in
that group? Ed needs a new group to troll for gay sex.
  #79   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 05:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 19
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:54:20 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:08:55 -0700, Nashville Cats wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:03:48 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:





It's too bad. I was here before the cross posting started. There

was
lots of discussion about amateur metalworking.

First, it was Gunner, around 15 years ago. He cross posted to
misc.survivalism and the nutbags started to crawl in. Then he

added a
couple more NGs.

Then Cliff (now deceased) picked up the mantle and made it worse. A
couple of cranks from other NGs started cross-posting to *here*,

but
that seems to have died down.

Now it's mostly Kopypasta Keller, the dirtbag for all seasons and a
moral cretin. He takes a dump on four or five NGs at a time,

usually
calculated for maximum cross provocation.

As someone once said, I'd never wish anyone dead, but there are
certain obituaries that it would give me great pleasure to read.



It boils down to the unmoderated nature of Usenet. For on-topic

stuff
I use groups like the one I linked to in my email. Advantages there,
and at most all such groups, are categorization, popular threads
pinned, FAQs, and built-in searching by category and author. Here's
another I've been reading. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ I could
spend days if I had time, without ever having to wade through gun
crap, BS artists, etc. My suggestion for a more appropriate name for
RCM: DSSBPL (Disgruntled SS Beneficiaries Pretending to be
Libertarians)


What about ****s in dresses? Are there a lot of ****s in dresses in
that group? Ed needs a new group to troll for gay sex.


Yawn You need a new shtick... and to come out of the closet.
  #80   Report Post  
Old July 18th 17, 05:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2017
Posts: 112
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:10:20 -0700, Nashville Cats wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:54:20 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:



On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:08:55 -0700, Nashville Cats

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:03:48 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:





It's too bad. I was here before the cross posting started.

There
was
lots of discussion about amateur metalworking.

First, it was Gunner, around 15 years ago. He cross posted to
misc.survivalism and the nutbags started to crawl in. Then he

added a
couple more NGs.

Then Cliff (now deceased) picked up the mantle and made it

worse. A
couple of cranks from other NGs started cross-posting to

*here*,
but
that seems to have died down.

Now it's mostly Kopypasta Keller, the dirtbag for all seasons

and a
moral cretin. He takes a dump on four or five NGs at a time,

usually
calculated for maximum cross provocation.

As someone once said, I'd never wish anyone dead, but there are
certain obituaries that it would give me great pleasure to read.



It boils down to the unmoderated nature of Usenet. For on-topic

stuff
I use groups like the one I linked to in my email. Advantages

there,
and at most all such groups, are categorization, popular threads
pinned, FAQs, and built-in searching by category and author.

Here's
another I've been reading. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ I could
spend days if I had time, without ever having to wade through gun
crap, BS artists, etc. My suggestion for a more appropriate name

for
RCM: DSSBPL (Disgruntled SS Beneficiaries Pretending to be
Libertarians)


What about ****s in dresses? Are there a lot of ****s in dresses

in
that group? Ed needs a new group to troll for gay sex.



Yawn You need a new shtick... and to come out of the closet.


Actually it's pretty safe in the closet now that Ed ****ress has come
out. ;-)


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