Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #21   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 02:17 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

Just don't leave anything in the blue magnetizer it will turn into a
magnet. Ok for some things.

The 'ac'/demag part - vary the field is your arm jacking in / out the
screwdriver to make a changing field. Changing the point where the
field line 'focus'.

Martin

On 7/15/2017 9:00 PM, Nashville Cats wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 18:26:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 3:11:07 PM UTC-4, Nashville Cats wrote:


Had a laugh about him planning
"to magnitize things, like screw drivers and so forth."


Well the laugh is on you. Some demagnetizers can also magnetise things.

Dan


One hardly needs a device to magnetize screwdrivers, and the laugh's
on you for needing to be told that.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MASTER-MA...6424/203613158

Besides, I'm faaaairyly certain that the ability to magnetize
screwdrivers won't do anything to help Wieber catch up on his rent.

Man, you sure can be counted on to jump in to defend the deadbeat's
dumb decisions... again and again.


  #22   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 02:47 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On 2017-07-16, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:36:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:18:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 05:24:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:18:53 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
I picked one of these up this week and dont really know the proper way
to use it.

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg

Its an Ideal 13-001 demagnitizer.

Thanks

Gunner


[ ... ]

that was not for this PARTICULAR 3 module magnitizer. I was asking
about the Ideal 13-001 demagnitizer..not "generic plate demagnitizer"

titter

So tell me..what are the (3) modules used for? There is "NO" plate on
this unit. There are (3) metal gizmos protruding from a plastic
cover.


What you have is a coil wound on the "E" laminations of a
transformer core. Shape of a single one is rather like this:

XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If you look closely at the "modules" you will see that they are
made of multiple pieces of thin metal (a metal which is easy to
magnetize and demagnize.) They are stacked together and usually
combined with "I" laminations (which look like this:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And in normal transformer constructions one 'E' lamination will
put the bar at the bottom and the next will put it at the top, which
the 'I' laminations joining across the the three pole pieces.

For the demagnetizer, you throw out (or never purchase) the 'I'
laminations, and point all of the "E" ones the same way. Wind a coil on
a square bobbin and slide it onto the center pole piece. This produces
a magnetic circuit which puts the North pole on the center and the South
on the two end ones for one half cycle, and then reversed on the next
half cycle.

Once the coil is wound and put over the center pole, the whole
thing is put in a box (poles down), and epoxy is poured in and allowed
to harden. Then maybe go to a belt sander once it is hardened and grind
a little off so the pole pieces are exposed. (Or, maybe put a slab of
plastic over the end so nothing gets hooked on the edges of the pole
pieces.)

(Oh yes -- connect an AC cord to the winding first. :-)

I made such a demagnetizer once.

Depending on how many turns, you may be able to leave it
connected to the AC line full time, or maybe have to limit it to no more
than perhaps five minutes, to keep it from overheating.

And how are they used and for what reason?


Plug it in, and slowly draw the piece of metal over all three
pole pieces until you are fully off them by maybe 6 to 8 inches. Then
turn off the power, or draw a second object over it.

If you want to magnetize instead, add a rectifier in series with
the power line and put the piece there, apply power for a few seconds
and remove the power. This will magnetize it where the pole pieces are
and between them. With the DC -- you may need a lower voltage to keep
the current within reason.

the 2 small end modules are used differently than the larger center
module?


They are used together -- to demagnetize or magnetize.

titter

How are they used?


Described above.

titter

And so forth.

titter

This is a plate demagnitizer

http://www.shars.com/files/products/...2-1170Main.jpg


Same thing, but with a stainless steel cover plate over the pole
pieces.. (likely 300 series non-magnetic stainless.)


This is what I own:

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg

Plate?


As I described above. You can see the ends of the pole pieces
and the epoxy (or perhaps poured tar). And a partial cover over the
edges.

titter

Thank you for your kind commentary however.

titter


Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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  #23   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 03:10 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 12,152
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:24:03 -0700, Nashville Cats wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:17:29 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 9:35:04 AM UTC-4, Nashville Cats wrote:


Except there was no ignorance from me. You pretended there was so that
you could mount your usual sideways defense of anything Wieber, no
matter how ridiculous. I ask again, how much is your life like
Wieber's that you need to whine every time he gets kicked? In this
case, I'm guessing that you, just like Wieber, had no idea that
screwdrivers are easily magnetized.


Well all the readers of RCM knows that you thought that a]l demagnetiser's could not also magnetise.


No, you made that up, because that's what dopes with nothing useful to
say, are wont to do.

That is your ignorance. You also rummaged around on the internet and found a dinky thing at Home Depot as if that is comparable to an industrial demagnetiser.


No. I've had perhaps a dozen different magnetizers over the years. The
Home Depot link showed the most common type one sees these days, which
is so prolific that it isn't worth rummaging around for a speaker
magnet or whatever to do the job. If I had anything that didn't fit in
my magnetizer, I'd use the magnetic parts bin that lives on the side
of my hoist.

I would like to see you using that Home Depot item to demagnitise things ground on a surface grinder.


Wieber only said that he wanted to magnetize "screw drivers and so
forth." The "so forth" means that he can't even think of anything else
he's going to use his new treasure for. He bought it because in lieu
of being self sufficient, and as a diversion from the reality of his
trailer trash life, he likes hoarding tons of crap, especially crap he
can waste time talking about endlessly. Now all his screwdrivers are
magnetized, and will turn into metal shard furballs the first time he
lays them near any grinding job. On second thought, I don't think that
will be a problem for him because if he was doing any real work, he'd
have learned long ago that magnetizing all his screwdrivers is even
dumber than wasting his money on a demagnetizer to do the job.

But if you are so knowledgeable how about letting us knew what metal working you have done lately.


Why would I do that? I've posted a half dozen projects lately in a
place that kicks nitwits like you and Wieber out to places like this
one. Now, I know you'll say I'm making that up. But your problem with
that approach is that a couple months ago I sent a link to one of
those posts to Huntress, which he can use to search all my dozens of
posts on that site if he likes. Maybe he'll back me up.


Darn. This is not a good computer day for me. I can see the photos of
your motorcycle rack that you linked to, but I can't figure out how to
see the other photos.

Why don't you just post a photo of the Glasair RG you built, and be
done with it? g

Seriously, let me know, here or in email, how to see the other photos.

And then
you'll apologize. LOL Just kidding, I know you'll make up something
new.

My wife decided that our propane fired grill was no good and so I picked up a Webber grill at a tag sale.
So now have to light the charcoal. So made a charcoal chimney out of misc stuff I already had.
My life is simple as I am retired and just do things for fun.


Apparently you find it "fun" to repeatedly put words in others'
mouths, and that's all you've done here, as usual.

  #24   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 03:11 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 12,152
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 17:45:11 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 3:24:07 PM UTC-4, Nashville Cats wrote:

Why would I do that? I've posted a half dozen projects lately in a
place that kicks nitwits like you and Wieber out to places like this
one. Now, I know you'll say I'm making that up. But your problem with
that approach is that a couple months ago I sent a link to one of
those posts to Huntress, which he can use to search all my dozens of
posts on that site if he likes. Maybe he'll back me up. And then
you'll apologize. LOL Just kidding, I know you'll make up something
new.


Every one that reads RCM believes you. Honest they do. No one would dare think that you made up some mythical place where you posted mythical projects.

Dan


Oh, they're not mythical.

--
Ed Huntress
  #25   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 03:42 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 9,699
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:57:21 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 23:52:50 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg


That's easy. That's an E-core type demagnetizer. Imagine an E laid
on its back so the legs poke upward. The coil is wound on the center,
larger leg. If at any instant in time the center leg is north
polarity, the three legs will be S-N-S. So you have two magnetic
loops in which to insert something to be demagnetized.

To demagnetize something, energize the unit and move it between the
center pole and either of the outside legs. Move it slowly and in
several directions. Slowly move it an arm's length away before
cutting power.

To magnetize something, place it on the center pole or between poles
and interrupt the current at its peak. This will require some custom
electronics. Three approaches. A peak switching solid state switch
using 60hz line voltage, a capacitor discharge device that switches a
high joule capacitor across the coil or a peak firing SCR (silicon
controlled rectifier).

The most effective would be a capacitor discharge unit. An MSD MS-6AL
racing ignition box and a 12 volt magnet would do the job unmodified.
Easiest and least expensive would be a heavy duty lamp dimmer with the
TRIAC replaced with an SCR so that it only fires on half the 60
cycles.

I can tell you how to do it either way. I'd prefer the MSD racing
box. Here are what the boxes look like in order of preference.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-6201

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-5520

Though not made anymore, the old analog MSD-6A would work perfectly.
You should be able to find one at any auto swap meet or on sleazebay.

John


John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address



Many thanks John!! Much obliged!!


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  #26   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 03:47 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 9,699
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On 17 Jul 2017 01:47:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-07-16, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:36:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:18:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 05:24:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:18:53 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
I picked one of these up this week and dont really know the proper way
to use it.

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg

Its an Ideal 13-001 demagnitizer.

Thanks

Gunner


[ ... ]

that was not for this PARTICULAR 3 module magnitizer. I was asking
about the Ideal 13-001 demagnitizer..not "generic plate demagnitizer"

titter

So tell me..what are the (3) modules used for? There is "NO" plate on
this unit. There are (3) metal gizmos protruding from a plastic
cover.


What you have is a coil wound on the "E" laminations of a
transformer core. Shape of a single one is rather like this:

XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If you look closely at the "modules" you will see that they are
made of multiple pieces of thin metal (a metal which is easy to
magnetize and demagnize.) They are stacked together and usually
combined with "I" laminations (which look like this:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And in normal transformer constructions one 'E' lamination will
put the bar at the bottom and the next will put it at the top, which
the 'I' laminations joining across the the three pole pieces.

For the demagnetizer, you throw out (or never purchase) the 'I'
laminations, and point all of the "E" ones the same way. Wind a coil on
a square bobbin and slide it onto the center pole piece. This produces
a magnetic circuit which puts the North pole on the center and the South
on the two end ones for one half cycle, and then reversed on the next
half cycle.

Once the coil is wound and put over the center pole, the whole
thing is put in a box (poles down), and epoxy is poured in and allowed
to harden. Then maybe go to a belt sander once it is hardened and grind
a little off so the pole pieces are exposed. (Or, maybe put a slab of
plastic over the end so nothing gets hooked on the edges of the pole
pieces.)

(Oh yes -- connect an AC cord to the winding first. :-)

I made such a demagnetizer once.

Depending on how many turns, you may be able to leave it
connected to the AC line full time, or maybe have to limit it to no more
than perhaps five minutes, to keep it from overheating.

And how are they used and for what reason?


Plug it in, and slowly draw the piece of metal over all three
pole pieces until you are fully off them by maybe 6 to 8 inches. Then
turn off the power, or draw a second object over it.

If you want to magnetize instead, add a rectifier in series with
the power line and put the piece there, apply power for a few seconds
and remove the power. This will magnetize it where the pole pieces are
and between them. With the DC -- you may need a lower voltage to keep
the current within reason.

the 2 small end modules are used differently than the larger center
module?


They are used together -- to demagnetize or magnetize.

titter

How are they used?


Described above.

titter

And so forth.

titter

This is a plate demagnitizer

http://www.shars.com/files/products/...2-1170Main.jpg


Same thing, but with a stainless steel cover plate over the pole
pieces.. (likely 300 series non-magnetic stainless.)


This is what I own:

https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.co...d4/540x360.jpg

Plate?


As I described above. You can see the ends of the pole pieces
and the epoxy (or perhaps poured tar). And a partial cover over the
edges.

titter

Thank you for your kind commentary however.

titter


Enjoy,
DoN.



Many thanks!

I found that if I simply stand the tool vertically on the center mass,
and turn the power on for 5-10 seconds, then turn it off..it
magnitizes the tool well enough for my purposes.

Thank you for your clear description and suggestions!

Gunner

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  #27   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 02:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 19
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 17:45:11 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 3:24:07 PM UTC-4, Nashville Cats wrote:

Why would I do that? I've posted a half dozen projects lately in a
place that kicks nitwits like you and Wieber out to places like this
one. Now, I know you'll say I'm making that up. But your problem with
that approach is that a couple months ago I sent a link to one of
those posts to Huntress, which he can use to search all my dozens of
posts on that site if he likes. Maybe he'll back me up. And then
you'll apologize. LOL Just kidding, I know you'll make up something
new.


Every one that reads RCM believes you.


So you're speaking for "everyone" now, eh?

Honest they do.


LOL You should banish the word honest from your vocabulary.

No one would dare think that you made up some mythical place where you posted mythical projects.


Yawn You responded exactly as I predicted, even with full warning
that you'd probably be proven wrong. What is it with rightards' need
to make things up so they can be on the wrong side of the facts? What
does it get you?
  #28   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 02:29 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 19
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:10:55 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:24:03 -0700, Nashville Cats wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:17:29 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


But if you are so knowledgeable how about letting us knew what metal working you have done lately.


Why would I do that? I've posted a half dozen projects lately in a
place that kicks nitwits like you and Wieber out to places like this
one. Now, I know you'll say I'm making that up. But your problem with
that approach is that a couple months ago I sent a link to one of
those posts to Huntress, which he can use to search all my dozens of
posts on that site if he likes. Maybe he'll back me up.


Darn. This is not a good computer day for me. I can see the photos of
your motorcycle rack that you linked to, but I can't figure out how to
see the other photos.


Looks like you need to be a member to search. I'll send you direct
links.

Why don't you just post a photo of the Glasair RG you built, and be
done with it? g


No need. I'd hate to post anything that rightards might enjoy since
the main reason I come here is to bash them by burning down their
poster boy. Anyway, Dan et al. would just make up something new, same
as I see in the climate change thread. I'll never understand why some
people work so hard to be on the wrong side of facts and history.
  #29   Report Post  
Old July 17th 17, 03:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,792
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 10:12:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Oh, they're not mythical.

--
Ed Huntress


You I believe. But you can't blame me for being skepical of posts from someone that uses a pseudo name, claims to have posted stuff months ago while google only turns up very recent posts by his current nym. Also who posts a lot on RCM that is not metal related and will not post thing that are on topic.

Dan

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Old July 17th 17, 04:15 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 12,152
Default How do I properly use an electrical demagnitizer?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 10:12:01 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Oh, they're not mythical.

--
Ed Huntress


You I believe. But you can't blame me for being skepical of posts from someone that uses a pseudo name, claims to have posted stuff months ago while google only turns up very recent posts by his current nym. Also who posts a lot on RCM that is not metal related and will not post thing that are on topic.

Dan


There's a lot of stress around these days, Dan -- fallout from the
tribalization of culture and a spreading infestation of situational
ethics.

It's too bad in many ways. For example, Whoyakidding has some primo
metalworking and building experience. It could be fun. If Gunner
hadn't threatened him with death, that is.

--
Ed Huntress


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