Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle. The spindle has rounded corners,
so it's not the ideal grip. But the flatbar will be pressed onto it
using a hard bolt.

Will 3/8 inch thick aluminum flatbar fit snugly onto a bicycle bottom
bracket square tapered spindle survive the torque?

Thanks.

I'm probably going to find out. Currently, it's the least difficult way I
know of to attach a custom sprocket to a bicycle bottom bracket.

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 9:54:16 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

It's gonna fail. Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears? The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all
from the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the
square spindle.

whit3rd wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

It's gonna fail.

What's gonna fail?

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth. There
are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I wouldn't
want/need the extra hardware.

The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all from
the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the square
spindle.

I've already made a chainring holder that I'm using on my current
electric bike. You can see some of it, the white wooden block, in this
picture.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/photostream

The motor is weaker but it's max RPM is 600 RPM (33% faster). The
chainring holder failed once but it was an easy repair. Instead of a
thick aluminum slab like the current effort, that block of wood is
superglued to the outside of the socket shown in this picture.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/photostream

There will be very little side to side wobble as the aluminum slab
rotates. The drive end of the socket shown in that picture will be
buttressed up against the aluminum slab (sprocket/chainring holding
piece).

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 00:23:29 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 9:54:16 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

It's gonna fail. Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears? The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all
from the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the
square spindle.

I agree. 6061 is NOT the material to make that from.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/dateposted/

That is what it looks like.







I wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle. The spindle has rounded corners,
so it's not the ideal grip. But the flatbar will be pressed onto it
using a hard bolt.

Will 3/8 inch thick aluminum flatbar fit snugly onto a bicycle bottom
bracket square tapered spindle survive the torque?

Thanks.

I'm probably going to find out. Currently, it's the least difficult way I
know of to attach a custom sprocket to a bicycle bottom bracket.

Of course it's not the ideal material, but it's my material. And whether
it's the ideal material is not the question, the question is whether it
will hold up to the torque.

If you were not a major part in every off-topic thread
in this group, your opinion might mean something.





Gunner Asch wrote in :

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 00:23:29 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 9:54:16 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

It's gonna fail. Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears? The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all
from the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the
square spindle.

I agree. 6061 is NOT the material to make that from.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:37:55 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/dateposted/

If you drive it like my 84 year old mom, you might be OK.

Drive it like my son and its "Gone in 60 Seconds"

Its made, try and let us know. make it out of tool steel next time.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

John Doe wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/dateposted/

If you drive it like my 84 year old mom, you might be OK.

Drive it like my son and its "Gone in 60 Seconds"

I watched that movie for the first time a few months ago. Always
remember it being talked about. It was okay until the never ending car
chase scene (it might have been special for the time).

So, that 3/8 inch thick 6061 aluminum will deform?

Its made

I haven't even started on that part. But all it (theoretically) takes is
to cut a square hole through the aluminum slab, roughly shape the outer
area, spin it on the spindle to mark a circle, superglue the chainring
on it, and drill the holes to solidly attach the chainring. Then press it
on to the square tapered spindle.

The main function of the socket that buttresses that aluminum slab onto
the square tapered spindle is to accept the drill connection as shown in
the other picture...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/dateposted/

try and let us know. make it out of tool steel next time.

If it's as easy to make. Problem is making it. Tool steel would make
cutting the square hole much more difficult for me.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 04:50:53 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle. The spindle has rounded corners,
so it's not the ideal grip. But the flatbar will be pressed onto it
using a hard bolt.

Will 3/8 inch thick aluminum flatbar fit snugly onto a bicycle bottom
bracket square tapered spindle survive the torque?

Thanks.

I'm probably going to find out. Currently, it's the least difficult way I
know of to attach a custom sprocket to a bicycle bottom bracket.

A conventional crank arm certainly has more then 3/8" bearing on the
square BB spindle, I don't have a crank arm right here to measure but
I would guess the normal engagement is closer to 3/4" - 1".

Having said that the amount of torque would be the limiting factor. If
you are a champion sprinter, Mark Cavendish for example, you are
putting some 1500 watts of power into the chain ring.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:42:02 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

whit3rd wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

It's gonna fail.

What's gonna fail?

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth. There
are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I wouldn't
want/need the extra hardware.


Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all from
the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the square
spindle.

I've already made a chainring holder that I'm using on my current
electric bike. You can see some of it, the white wooden block, in this
picture.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/photostream

The motor is weaker but it's max RPM is 600 RPM (33% faster). The
chainring holder failed once but it was an easy repair. Instead of a
thick aluminum slab like the current effort, that block of wood is
superglued to the outside of the socket shown in this picture.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/photostream

There will be very little side to side wobble as the aluminum slab
rotates. The drive end of the socket shown in that picture will be
buttressed up against the aluminum slab (sprocket/chainring holding
piece).
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:41:51 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Of course it's not the ideal material, but it's my material. And whether
it's the ideal material is not the question, the question is whether it
will hold up to the torque.

If you were not a major part in every off-topic thread
in this group, your opinion might mean something.


Actually I would suspect that 6061-T6 is probably a stronger material
then the usual aluminum road bike 52 Tooth chain wheel is made from
:-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

I can solidify it by supergluing a square wood cylinder around the
socket after roughening its surface, and then supergluing that to the
aluminum slab. But that is more difficult.

A block of wood with a hole drilled through it and superglued around the
outside of the socket is all that holds the chainring on my current
underpowered bike...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/275322...in/dateposted/

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over the
bottom bracket square tapered spindle. The spindle has rounded corners,
so it's not the ideal grip. But the flatbar will be pressed onto it
using a hard bolt.

Will 3/8 inch thick aluminum flatbar fit snugly onto a bicycle bottom
bracket square tapered spindle survive the torque?

Thanks.

I'm probably going to find out. Currently, it's the least difficult way I
know of to attach a custom sprocket to a bicycle bottom bracket.

So this is what you wanted your square hole for?

Both the taper and the length of contact between the spindle and the crank
are extremely important.
The taper is swaged into the crank to insure an accurate match. When bolted
down they form an interference fit that keeps them aligned and keeps them
from wallowing each other out.

I would suggest working out a way to adapt the business end of a
cannibalized crank to hold the sprocket.

Paul K. Dickman

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

Did you find that the "square" hole needs to be accurately tapered?
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 1:45:26 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.


The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all from
the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the square
spindle.

There will be very little side to side wobble as the aluminum slab
rotates. The drive end of the socket shown in that picture will be
buttressed up against the aluminum slab (sprocket/chainring

If you can't get a real fit over a large area to the tapered square,
don't use that for a shaft.
It oughtn't be hard to make a spindle replacement (two off-the-shelf
ball bearings, and a shaft with suitable keying). Woodruff keys
or plain old 1/8" keystock, are a much more forgiving torque transfer
mechanism (I'd think in terms of using three or more keys, what
would be best, would be a true splined shaft). If you
get the aluminum butted up against a shoulder on the shaft, THEN
I'll expect it not to grow a wobble.

More important, any low-revs shaft has to be thick, and you're starting
(if I understand it) from a high-revs DC motor, that has been geared down.
The scheme has too many parts that have to be slow and strong.

It might be beneficial to replace the chain drive entirely, with a worm drive
located at the driven axle.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--

Cheers,

John B.

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in news:nemrd0$qug$1@dont-
email.me:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

Some people are fixated on doing things in a complex way, they lack
resourcefulness, they haven't been taught to think for themselves.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

"John B." wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on
a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus
I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old putty
and tap in the glazier's points.

It was even the right tool to adjust the output of an old Harley's
three brush generator.

--jsw

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in
news:nemrd0$qug$1@dont-
email.me:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on
a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus
I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

Some people are fixated on doing things in a complex way, they lack
resourcefulness, they haven't been taught to think for themselves.

Have you tried the old clock and gun makers' manual filing techniques
I told you about? I omitted some details to see if you'd ask after
hitting problems.
--jsw

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:11:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in
news:nemrd0$qug$1@dont-
email.me:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on
a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus
I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

Some people are fixated on doing things in a complex way, they lack
resourcefulness, they haven't been taught to think for themselves.

Have you tried the old clock and gun makers' manual filing techniques
I told you about? I omitted some details to see if you'd ask after
hitting problems.
--jsw

I hate to tell you but when I did my apprenticeship we had to learn to
file. We also learned to pour babbitt bearings and scrape them to fit.

The bearing scraping got me a promotion years later. Went to work at a
place and the surface grinder was "broke". I asked the man what was
the matter and it turned out to be a big bronze bearing had gone dry
and "galled". I says "why not scrape it in" and the man says "can you
scrape bearings". I said sure, and about a week later the grinder
running and I was the foreman :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?

For making a large 42 tooth rear freewheel, Yes. There is no easier
reliable way, guaranteed...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/? (should be the first two
pictures)

Supplies...

Shimano Alivio M415 42t 7/8-Speed Outer Chainring.

Any 3/32" 20 tooth freewheel (so far, two different brands work).

Four 5/16" fully threaded short (1") bolts, nuts, and washers.

A rotary tool to trim the excess boltage.

Superglue!

Simply use the four bolts to easily shoehorn the chainring onto the
freewheel and then tighten down the nuts (with washers). There might be
a tiny bit of crimpage on the bolt threads caused by the chainring, but
the fit is within thousandths of an inch. Also, the width of the
chainring and the freewheel sprocket teeth is perfect for clamping. The
superglue might not even be necessary, but not worth going without it.

It's good until somebody changes their specifications.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

Have you tried the old clock and gun makers' manual filing techniques
I told you about? I omitted some details to see if you'd ask after
hitting problems.

Put it in a YouTube video.

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:11:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in
news:nemrd0$qug$1@dont-
email.me:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket
on
a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus
I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

Some people are fixated on doing things in a complex way, they
lack
resourcefulness, they haven't been taught to think for themselves.

Have you tried the old clock and gun makers' manual filing
techniques
I told you about? I omitted some details to see if you'd ask after
hitting problems.
--jsw


I hate to tell you but when I did my apprenticeship we had to learn
to
file. We also learned to pour babbitt bearings and scrape them to
fit.

The bearing scraping got me a promotion years later. Went to work at
a
place and the surface grinder was "broke". I asked the man what was
the matter and it turned out to be a big bronze bearing had gone dry
and "galled". I says "why not scrape it in" and the man says "can
you
scrape bearings". I said sure, and about a week later the grinder
running and I was the foreman :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

I was responding to John Doe's latest rant.

Eddie Rickenbacker went to France during WW1 as a driver-mechanic, not
a pilot. While he was driving General Billy Mitchell the engine failed
and Eddie rebabbited the bad bearing in a roadside garage. Mitchell
was impressed enough to grant his request to be assigned to the French
pilot training school. After 25 flight hours he earned his wings and
soon became one of the leaders of the new US flight school at
Issoudon, and then America's leading WW1 ace.

Along with Reichenbacher the other US flight school officers were
Weidenbach, Spaatz, Tittel and Spiegel, the cadets called them all the
"five German spies". Later Weidenbach became MacArthur's aide
Willoughby, his name's English translation, and Spaatz headed the WW2
bombing campaign and the newly independent USAF.

In the 1980's I "temporarily" patched a worn brass lathe spindle
bearing by building up the low spot with solder and scraping it to
accept the shaft, then reinstalling the OD-tapered bearing in a
different orientation. Although I don't use that lathe much after
finding the South Bend it's still tight.

--jsw

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

Have you tried the old clock and gun makers' manual filing
techniques
I told you about? I omitted some details to see if you'd ask after
hitting problems.

Put it in a YouTube video.

Very little that I encountered in clockmaking or gunsmithing books
applied to my career of building prototype and custom electronics, so
I didn't practice their manual skills enough to demonstrate them.

The valuable skills were operating a metal lathe and vertical milling
machine and sheet metal fabrication, plus welding for my motorized
home projects like the sawmill though not for electronics. I couldn't
even draw parts intelligently without understanding how they would be
made on standard machine tools.
--jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old putty and
tap in the glazier's points.


I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before myself.

"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 1:45:26 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.


The thing is, even if it took chain tension, any wobble at all from
the rotation axis is going to loosen its contact with the square
spindle.

There will be very little side to side wobble as the aluminum slab
rotates. The drive end of the socket shown in that picture will be
buttressed up against the aluminum slab (sprocket/chainring

If you can't get a real fit over a large area to the tapered square,
don't use that for a shaft.
It oughtn't be hard to make a spindle replacement (two off-the-shelf
ball bearings, and a shaft with suitable keying). Woodruff keys
or plain old 1/8" keystock, are a much more forgiving torque transfer
mechanism (I'd think in terms of using three or more keys, what
would be best, would be a true splined shaft). If you
get the aluminum butted up against a shoulder on the shaft, THEN
I'll expect it not to grow a wobble.

More important, any low-revs shaft has to be thick, and you're starting
(if I understand it) from a high-revs DC motor, that has been geared down.
The scheme has too many parts that have to be slow and strong.

It might be beneficial to replace the chain drive entirely, with a worm
drive
located at the driven axle.

One more set of gearing to rob from the BHP number at the rear wheel. A
chain drive or belt drive are much less parasitic.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18 teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That, plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old putty and
tap in the glazier's points.


I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before myself.


The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in with a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket
on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum
fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old
putty and
tap in the glazier's points.


I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before
myself.


The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in with
a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used
them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress

I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It takes
considerable force to install the points.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:05:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
news:vaptgb5pis8egbpb763kn9ulf17fp5udvi@4ax. com...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket
on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum
fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old
putty and
tap in the glazier's points.


I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before
myself.


The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in with
a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used
them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress

I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It takes
considerable force to install the points.

I think mine are all spruce, except for a replacement I made out of
fir. The little diamond-shaped points push in with ease.

I hope you didn't make your window frames out of red oak, did you?
That stuff wisks water like soda straws. That's why they don't use it
to build boats.

90% of the oak here is red oak, so I don't do much with it.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:05:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"

wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
news:vaptgb5pis8egbpb763kn9ulf17fp5udvi@4ax .com...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front
sprocket
on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum
fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it.
I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily
cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old
putty and
tap in the glazier's points.


I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before
myself.


The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in
with
a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used
them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress

I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It
takes
considerable force to install the points.

I think mine are all spruce, except for a replacement I made out of
fir. The little diamond-shaped points push in with ease.

I hope you didn't make your window frames out of red oak, did you?
That stuff wisks water like soda straws. That's why they don't use
it
to build boats.

90% of the oak here is red oak, so I don't do much with it.

--
Ed Huntress

Everything I've done on the house exterior is pressure treated, much
of it covered with white aluminum.

The only exposed, painted red oak is on the solar water heater windows
and it held up fine for about 5 years, until the tank rusted. Various
scraps of red oak flooring left outdoors as woodshed tarp battens
aren't badly affected by the rain. The ends that rest in leaves on the
ground turn dark but that's about all. Red oak pallets last uncovered
for decades here. A stump that I cut 4' high in 1985 is still
standing.

Barkless dead red oaks that I cut down in the winter were already dry
enough to burn. I saw a woodpecker strip all the bark from a large
dead oak in one day.

--jsw

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:38:01 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:05:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"

wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
news:vaptgb5pis8egbpb763kn9ulf17fp5udvi@4a x.com...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front
sprocket
on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum
fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.

Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?

Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.

Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.

Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it.
I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily
cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.

One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.

"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old
putty and
tap in the glazier's points.


I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before
myself.


The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in
with
a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used
them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress

I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It
takes
considerable force to install the points.

I think mine are all spruce, except for a replacement I made out of
fir. The little diamond-shaped points push in with ease.

I hope you didn't make your window frames out of red oak, did you?
That stuff wisks water like soda straws. That's why they don't use
it
to build boats.

90% of the oak here is red oak, so I don't do much with it.

--
Ed Huntress

Everything I've done on the house exterior is pressure treated, much
of it covered with white aluminum.

The only exposed, painted red oak is on the solar water heater windows
and it held up fine for about 5 years, until the tank rusted. Various
scraps of red oak flooring left outdoors as woodshed tarp battens
aren't badly affected by the rain. The ends that rest in leaves on the
ground turn dark but that's about all. Red oak pallets last uncovered
for decades here. A stump that I cut 4' high in 1985 is still
standing.

Barkless dead red oaks that I cut down in the winter were already dry
enough to burn. I saw a woodpecker strip all the bark from a large
dead oak in one day.

--jsw

Just so it doesn't stand in water, or water doesn't stand on the end
of the wood. It has very little resistance to rot.

One way that boatbuilders test for red oak is to take a short stick of
it and blow on one end, with the other end in a cup of water. If you
can blow air through it, it's red oak (or any species in the red oak
family). I've done this myself.

--

Ed Huntress

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:58:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old putty
and tap in the glazier's points.

I bought a urethane mallet when I was doing some carving work and will
use that 10 out of 11 times instead of a hammer. (Nails get a hammer,
almost everything else gets the nice mallet.) Try one and tell me
what you think. My 12oz brass carving mallet also seems to work well
for driving shear and roll pins.

http://tinyurl.com/z5lw9w8 and http://tinyurl.com/jf66ol2
Prices sure have climbed since I bought mine!


It was even the right tool to adjust the output of an old Harley's
three brush generator.

g

--
If you want to make your dreams come true,
the first thing you have to do is wake up!
--anon

On 14/04/16 20:01, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:05:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket
on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum
fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.
Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?
Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.
Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.
Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.
One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.
"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.
A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old
putty and
tap in the glazier's points.

I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before
myself.

The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in with
a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used
them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress
I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It takes
considerable force to install the points.
I think mine are all spruce, except for a replacement I made out of
fir. The little diamond-shaped points push in with ease.

I hope you didn't make your window frames out of red oak, did you?
That stuff wisks water like soda straws. That's why they don't use it
to build boats.

90% of the oak here is red oak, so I don't do much with it.

Interesting what you say as a wood worker I know here in the UK
mentioned that US oak is rubbish outdoors whereas UK and European oak is
fine. US oak may start to rot after only a few years outside whereas
local oak can be outside for 50+ years and still be fine, I have some
60+ year oak boundary markers on my house boundary. My doctor had a mail
box made at some expense and I suspect it was made of US oak as it was
rotting after a few years outdoors apparently. Any way to tell the
difference between red oak and other varieties.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:17:17 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

On 14/04/16 20:01, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:05:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:37:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"John B." wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:26:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:32:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Doe wrote:
Using 6061 3/8" thick aluminum to hold the front sprocket
on a
bicycle.

A 1/2 inch square hole through 3/8 inch thick aluminum
fits
over
the bottom bracket square tapered spindle.
Why can't you use a proper crank with spider that takes
replaceable
ring gears?
Because I'm using a 450 max RPM motor to turn the
sprocket/chainring.
The chainring must be extraordinarily small, like 14 to 18
teeth.
There are no crankssets with chainrings that small. That,
plus I
wouldn't want/need the extra hardware.
Inner chain rings on a triple often are in the 20-something
tooth
range. I'm looking at a 24 tooth at the moment and there is
easily
enough meat there to go to 20 teeth and maybe even smaller.
Even if it could be down to 20 teeth, it wouldn't work for my
application.

If there were an easier way to do it, I would have found it. I
already
have turned the other three parts of making an electric bike
into
ridiculously easy tasks (with hardly any tools). Easily cutting
a
square
hole through an appropriate piece of metal would make it all
four.
One can only speculate, "is your way the best way"?
--
Cheers,
John B.
"If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

True, but all problems aren't nails. I think that you'll have
problems
installing window glass with your hammer.
--

Cheers,

John B.
A hammer is exactly the right tool to help chisel out the old
putty and
tap in the glazier's points.

I was going to say the same thing as I have glazed windows before
myself.

The old, diamond-shaped ones aren't hammered. They're pushed in with
a
screwdriver-like tool that's made for the job.

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. I've used
them
on about a dozen windows and as many wood-framed storn sashes. The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

--
Ed Huntress
I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It takes
considerable force to install the points.
I think mine are all spruce, except for a replacement I made out of
fir. The little diamond-shaped points push in with ease.

I hope you didn't make your window frames out of red oak, did you?
That stuff wisks water like soda straws. That's why they don't use it
to build boats.

90% of the oak here is red oak, so I don't do much with it.

Interesting what you say as a wood worker I know here in the UK
mentioned that US oak is rubbish outdoors whereas UK and European oak is
fine. US oak may start to rot after only a few years outside whereas
local oak can be outside for 50+ years and still be fine, I have some
60+ year oak boundary markers on my house boundary. My doctor had a mail
box made at some expense and I suspect it was made of US oak as it was
rotting after a few years outdoors apparently. Any way to tell the
difference between red oak and other varieties.

There are some ways, but keep in mind there are at least ten "red oak"
varieties and about as many white oak types. (The primary oak from the
UK was known as "brown oak" here, but I don't know what you call it.)

Jim must be having good luck with his red oak because it can rot in a
hurry. White oak is slightly heavier and considerably more expensive
around here. You're probably getting red oak from the US. The physical
difference is that white oak's pores are blocked with little nodes at
close intervals, like bamboo, while those of red oak can be open for a
foot or more.

Here is a pretty good guide to distinguishing the two. Acolytes of R.
Bruce Hoadley's _Understanding Wood_ (like me) often acquire a 15X
Hastings Triplet magnifier for distinguishing wood types, and carry a
*very* sharp pocketkinfe or a razor blade to make a clean cut across
the end grain:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-ar...rom-white-oak/

--
Ed Huntress

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:59 AM UTC-7, Bob La Londe wrote:
"whit3rd" wrote in message
...

It might be beneficial to replace the chain drive entirely, with a worm
drive
located at the driven axle.

One more set of gearing to rob from the BHP number at the rear wheel. A
chain drive or belt drive are much less parasitic.

Not so; the entire power-drill gearbox and the long mechanical
connection from crank to driven wheel all go away.
It's my impression that the better powered bicycles use hub motors,
and presumably planetary gearing. You don't want an electric motor
to move as slow as a bicycle wheel. Chain ratios aren't extreme enough.

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 11:05:17 AM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

You may be using the newer, triangular glazing points that have a
little flange on the window side, right?

My windows (and zinc glazing points) are 92 years old. ... The
points are around 3/8" long, on the longest dimension.

I make doors, windows, frames etc out of oak from my sawmill. It takes
considerable force to install the points.

I've had the same problem with my aluminum windows.
I''m not entirely kidding, for thermopane installation, gluing in
some thin wood strips allows putty/points glazing and the results are good.
The glass doesn't bend, the frames are not perfect, a bed of putty
solves all problems.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:38:01 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


Just so it doesn't stand in water, or water doesn't stand on the end
of the wood. It has very little resistance to rot.

One way that boatbuilders test for red oak is to take a short stick
of
it and blow on one end, with the other end in a cup of water. If you
can blow air through it, it's red oak (or any species in the red oak
family). I've done this myself.
--
Ed Huntress

Maybe our local red oaks resist our local fungus better. Dead red oaks
I taped and then didn't get back to cut for 5-10 years were often
clean and solid inside, except at the bottom, while white oaks were
invariably too far gone to save for lumber once I noticed they had
died.

I deal with the rapid drying through the porous ends and resultant
shrinkage and radial splitting by coating lumber log ends with melted
toilet ring wax, which is less brittle than canning jar wax. They
really are sponges; logs I weighed wet have lost half their weight
drying.

And yes, I learned as a Boy Scout how to tell a quercus rubra from a
quercus alba, by the leaves and bark and usually the wood grain and
color. The white oak in my yard usually retains its brown leaves all
winter.

--jsw