I have an ENCO 110-1340 wired 3-phase. The power switch or breaker has developed a problem. Push the on switch and the motor runs, but as soon as you let off, the motor stops and won't stay running as it used to. Any ideas? Thanks

"Bucephalus" wrote in message
...

I have an ENCO 110-1340 wired 3-phase. The power switch or breaker
has
developed a problem. Push the on switch and the motor runs, but as
soon
as you let off, the motor stops and won't stay running as it used
to.
Any ideas? Thanks


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Bucephalus

This shows how "3 wire control" works:
http://www.industrial-electronics.co...l_Circuit.html

The AUX contact in parallel with the Start button keeps the contacter
energized after you release the button, but doesn't allow the machine
to restart by itself after a power failure.

-- Marengo

Marengo — Thanks for helping me out. I understand the diagram and principle, but I'm having difficulty sorting out the box itself. I'm unclear about how to identify the breaker I understand is likely the problem. I have the schematic for the unit, but it doesn't seem to correspond to what I see in the box.

"Bucephalus" wrote in message
...

Marengo - Thanks for helping me out. I understand the diagram and
principle, but I'm having difficulty sorting out the box itself. I'm
unclear about how to identify the breaker I understand is likely the
problem. I have the schematic for the unit, but it doesn't seem to
correspond to what I see in the box.


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Bucephalus

Then you need to trace out and draw what you have. Is there a
contactor that reverses the motor?

When I reverse enginer a circuit I draw pictorial representations of
the components that show the terminals and how they connect inside, in
the same relative positions as in the device but spaced further apart.
Then I draw each wire connection as I trace it, using freehand curved
lines which are more distinct than straight ones where they cross.

Once I've traced and labelled all the connections I usually understand
it well enough to redraw a neater schematic that shows the logical
flow from source to load, left to right or top to bottom. The standard
practice is a bit different from electronic schematics.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/text...dder-diagrams/

You can add labels to mark your progress by dabbing on white nail
polish and writing with a fine permanent marker after it dries. As the
Line and Neutral pass through contacts you can track them with a
prefix number, as L1, 1L1, 2L1 ...

A good first step is to -completely- disconnect power and then tighten
all the terminal screws. Also check for loose crimps when you trace
the wiring.

--Marengo

On 2016-02-23, Bucephalus wrote:

I have an ENCO 110-1340 wired 3-phase. The power switch or breaker has
developed a problem. Push the on switch and the motor runs, but as soon
as you let off, the motor stops and won't stay running as it used to.
Any ideas? Thanks

Looking at the two images, the only switch there is the panic
stop switch with the red mushroom handle. Normally, those are designed
to lock pushed (stop state) and have to be either turned a bit clockwise
to unlock, or pulled, depending on who made the switch. The two red
wires with white terminal lugs look as though they should go to the
start switch. One looks as though it has the number '4' on to, while
the other is too out of focus to read any number, but since the
panic/stop switch wires seem to be number '1' and '2' this makes sense.

The panic switch should be NC (normally closed -- that is when
the switch is in the reset (not depressed) position, the two contacts
will measure very low resistance between them. The "Start" or "Run"
switch, however, will be NO (Normally Open) -- that is it has to be
pressed to connect the two terminals.

Is it possible that you (or someone else) substituted the panic
switch for the "Run" switch?? And where is the other switch? I see
what looks like the mounting hardware for it above the hole where it
goes.

Do you have a manual for the machine which includes a schematic
of the wiring?

Good Luck,
DoN.

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Nothing was changed before the Start circuit started acting up. I hadn't even taken the lid off the circuits box since this was wired 20 years ago. Something failed on its own. And, yeah, the Start switch is numbered 3 and 4. I presumed it was some sort of breaker causing the problem, but the schematic doesn't even show them.

"Bucephalus" wrote in message
...

Nothing was changed before the Start circuit started acting up. I
hadn't
even taken the lid off the circuits box since this was wired 20
years
ago. Something failed on its own. And, yeah, the Start switch is
numbered 3 and 4. I presumed it was some sort of breaker causing the
problem, but the schematic doesn't even show them.


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Bucephalus

What changed was that contacts eroded and the machine vibrated.

I finally found a reference to manually closing the contacts to check
them. Watch the red plungers in the center of the contactors when you
press the start button.
http://www.hvachowto.com/2014/10/02/...ys-contactors/

--Marengo

Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bucephalus" wrote in message
...

I have an ENCO 110-1340 wired 3-phase. The power switch or breaker
has
developed a problem. Push the on switch and the motor runs, but as
soon
as you let off, the motor stops and won't stay running as it used
to.
Any ideas? Thanks


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: Enco-2A1x.jpg
|
|Download:
http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8910|
|Filename: Enco-1A1.jpg
|
|Download:
http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8909|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
Bucephalus

This shows how "3 wire control" works:
http://www.industrial-electronics.co...l_Circuit.html

The AUX contact in parallel with the Start button keeps the contacter
energized after you release the button, but doesn't allow the machine
to restart by itself after a power failure.

-- Marengo




That link you posted:

http://www.industrial-electronics.co...l_Circuit.html

Seems to have an effed up upper diagram, because:

The "Maux" contacts are drawn normally closed, they should be normally open.

The way it's shown would turn the whole thing into a "buzzer" with power
applied.

The "Stop" button switch has nothing connected to one side of it.

I assume you didn't notice those errors when posting a link that page.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bucephalus" wrote in message
...

I have an ENCO 110-1340 wired 3-phase. The power switch or breaker
has
developed a problem. Push the on switch and the motor runs, but as
soon
as you let off, the motor stops and won't stay running as it used
to.
Any ideas? Thanks


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: Enco-2A1x.jpg
|
|Download:
http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8910|
|Filename: Enco-1A1.jpg
|
|Download:
http://www.diybanter.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8909|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
Bucephalus

This shows how "3 wire control" works:
http://www.industrial-electronics.co...l_Circuit.html

The AUX contact in parallel with the Start button keeps the
contacter
energized after you release the button, but doesn't allow the
machine
to restart by itself after a power failure.

-- Marengo




That link you posted:

http://www.industrial-electronics.co...l_Circuit.html

Seems to have an effed up upper diagram, because:

The "Maux" contacts are drawn normally closed, they should be
normally open.

The way it's shown would turn the whole thing into a "buzzer" with
power applied.

The "Stop" button switch has nothing connected to one side of it.

I assume you didn't notice those errors when posting a link that
page.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

I didn't notice. I've been having trouble finding -anything- useful to
explain control logic.

--jsw

Usually means a contact on the aux bypass is dirty and doesn't make.
You are drawing the entire motor current through the contacts.

Might be the coil burnt but more like contacts.

The unit is a black box of plastic with screw connections or wires
coming out.

It might be in the motor area due to size not in the switch area.

Trace wires see what goes where.

Martin

On 2/24/2016 1:49 PM, Bucephalus wrote:
Nothing was changed before the Start circuit started acting up. I hadn't
even taken the lid off the circuits box since this was wired 20 years
ago. Something failed on its own. And, yeah, the Start switch is
numbered 3 and 4. I presumed it was some sort of breaker causing the
problem, but the schematic doesn't even show them.


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On 2016-02-24, Bucephalus wrote:

Nothing was changed before the Start circuit started acting up. I hadn't
even taken the lid off the circuits box since this was wired 20 years
ago. Something failed on its own. And, yeah, the Start switch is
numbered 3 and 4. I presumed it was some sort of breaker causing the
problem, but the schematic doesn't even show them.

In that case -- what was the hole for? Empty suggests that what
may have happened is that the original start switch failed, and things
were re-wired so the panic switch serves as the start switch (in which
case the two loose wires should be connected together as a permanently
pressed "start" switch, and the panic switch is serving as both start
and stop. It *does* lock in the pressed state, does it not?

So was it bumped or moved recently? Perhaps the two loose wires
were touching each other and are not longer doing so.

It would help if there were a schematic showing the switches and
relays, so we could determine how it *should* be wired, in contrast to
how it is currently wired.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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On 2016-02-25, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Usually means a contact on the aux bypass is dirty and doesn't make.
You are drawing the entire motor current through the contacts.

Might be the coil burnt but more like contacts.

The unit is a black box of plastic with screw connections or wires
coming out.

Instead of a single reversing relay, it is implemented here by
two relays (contactors) side by side -- just below the existing switch
and the hole where another one *should* be.

The wires carrying the three phase from one to the other
contactor are what looks like brown, with hand-written labels on the
crimp terminals.

This suggests to me that it was originally imported wired with a
cap start single phase motor and was re-wired for three phase by someone
else. This may also be why there is a missing switch. (Hmm ... does
this not have the ability to run in reverse? Or is this in a lever
switch There is a smaller contactor below the left-hand on the front panel?

Hmm ... I remember using a Jet of about the same design a number
of years ago (maybe 20 by now? :-) and there was a lever on the carriage
which could be moved up to go forward and down to go in reverse. On
that one, I think that the red switch was purely for a panic stop
switch, not for daily use. There may have been another switch on the
panel as well -- a rotary knob along with the gearbox switches on
similar knobs.

In this case -- the empty hole and the floating wires may have
been for another indicator light instead of a switch. A pity that I
don't have a manual for that machine -- or for yours.

There is a smaller contactor below the left-hand
larger contactor, which likely implements the logic of the switching.

It might be in the motor area due to size not in the switch area.

Trace wires see what goes where.

Indeed so.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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