I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 1:24:58 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?


Oil does a much better job protecting the cutting edge but it doesn't cool very well. This is especially true on difficult to machine alloys.

In article , Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?

Drill press is far easier and better than hand drilling, if you can use
the drill press.

I usually use plumbers black sulfur oil, but it is messy for sure.

What I also use with success is oil emulsion cutting fluid, such as
Rustlick WS-5050, at high concentration (as defined on the label).
This still leaves an oil film, so you will need to clean things if
painting is intended.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

Martin


On 7/10/2015 3:24 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:10:20 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

Ayup! Good post

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

Any favorite coolants you use? I'll order something something from MSC.
Prices range from $35 to $50 for a gallon for the water based coolant
concentrates.

For drilling with plain cutting oil, I tend to be happy when the oil just
starts to smoke, and for whatever reason, I've always had better luck
with HSS bits over cobalt which I tend to ruin faster. The HSS can be
cleaned up with even a worn out stone and will cut again.

Any suggestions for how hard you can push things with the water based
stuff? A few squirts from the spray bottle here and there is the amount
I'd be able to apply.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:03:19 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

Any favorite coolants you use? I'll order something something from MSC.
Prices range from $35 to $50 for a gallon for the water based coolant
concentrates.

For drilling with plain cutting oil, I tend to be happy when the oil just
starts to smoke, and for whatever reason, I've always had better luck
with HSS bits over cobalt which I tend to ruin faster. The HSS can be
cleaned up with even a worn out stone and will cut again.

Any suggestions for how hard you can push things with the water based
stuff? A few squirts from the spray bottle here and there is the amount
I'd be able to apply.

Well..many of my clients run cobalt or tungstun at 2000-3000 and
..003-.009 per rev feed. HSS tends to go down to 800-1200 at the same
feed rates

This of course depends on the size of the drill bit. Remember...the
bigger the bit..the slower you turn. Feed rates remain the same.

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:03:19 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

Any favorite coolants you use? I'll order something something from MSC.
Prices range from $35 to $50 for a gallon for the water based coolant
concentrates.

For drilling with plain cutting oil, I tend to be happy when the oil just
starts to smoke, and for whatever reason, I've always had better luck
with HSS bits over cobalt which I tend to ruin faster. The HSS can be
cleaned up with even a worn out stone and will cut again.

Any suggestions for how hard you can push things with the water based
stuff? A few squirts from the spray bottle here and there is the amount
I'd be able to apply.

Well..many of my clients run cobalt or tungstun at 2000-3000 and
.003-.009 per rev feed. HSS tends to go down to 800-1200 at the same
feed rates

This of course depends on the size of the drill bit. Remember...the
bigger the bit..the slower you turn. Feed rates remain the same.

I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

--
Ned Simmons

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

--
Ned Simmons

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:03:19 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

Any favorite coolants you use? I'll order something something from MSC.
Prices range from $35 to $50 for a gallon for the water based coolant
concentrates.

For drilling with plain cutting oil, I tend to be happy when the oil just
starts to smoke, and for whatever reason, I've always had better luck
with HSS bits over cobalt which I tend to ruin faster. The HSS can be
cleaned up with even a worn out stone and will cut again.

Any suggestions for how hard you can push things with the water based
stuff? A few squirts from the spray bottle here and there is the amount
I'd be able to apply.
You can push pretty much as hard as you can when drilling steel with a
5/16 split point drill. Smaller drills less so. As long as the drill
is making a chip. Squirt a little coolant, drill a little, pull the
drill away from the work, squirt more coolant, and so on. If the chips
are starting to turn blue you are not keeping things cool enough. This
can be from too heavy feed rate, not enough coolant, or a combination
of the two. I used to use Trim-Sol soluble oil. Used it for years.
It's pretty good stuff but if some gets in your coffee it makes the
coffee taste so bad you might have a hard time drinking coffee for a
few days. I now use Blasocut 2000 CF because it is pretty benign.
Blasocut is made by Swisslube. I don't know if it is available in
gallon sizes. The Rutland coolant is OK too. In my experience all the
water soluble oils I have used will work OK in your situation.
Eric

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

What RPM are you running the drill at?

jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

What RPM are you running the drill at?

various speeds- I've had this happen by hand with 1/4" bits and well as in
a Cameron drill press- so the bit in that must have been around 3/32" in
that case. Not enough feed pressure and I'm just spinning/burning the bit?
They bits were all used on stuff like Al, brass and plastic, some steel.
It's obvious pretty quick when a drill bit is dulled, and it's always the
cobalt stuff that ends up in the dull pile.

Never had this problem with genericy black oxide or HSS bits, pretty sure
all of those that I have are 118 degree though. Why are the cobalt ones
always 135 degrees in the first place?

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

What RPM are you running the drill at?

various speeds- I've had this happen by hand with 1/4" bits and well as in
a Cameron drill press- so the bit in that must have been around 3/32" in
that case. Not enough feed pressure and I'm just spinning/burning the bit?
They bits were all used on stuff like Al, brass and plastic, some steel.
It's obvious pretty quick when a drill bit is dulled, and it's always the
cobalt stuff that ends up in the dull pile.

Never had this problem with genericy black oxide or HSS bits, pretty sure
all of those that I have are 118 degree though. Why are the cobalt ones
always 135 degrees in the first place?

135 degree cobalt split point drills are self centering. 135 degree drill bits are used for drilling into hard materials. They will last much longer on hard material. I often use 135 degree split point American made cobalt stub drills if I don't want to center drill first and position tolerance is .002 or greater.

The "coating" of hot rolled steel is often very abrasive. My choice for hand drilling would be a sulpher type oil not a water soluble oil. Be careful not to use too high an RPM or to light a feed.

Cobalt drills will take more heat before the cutting edge breaks down but they will chip easier if you force them.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 3:24:58 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?

I bought about 8 gallons of Chevron water soluble oil at an estate sale a few months ago ($8). Haven't touched it because I didn't know for sure if it was usable in my all-manual shop.
I mostly cut mild steel and aluminum, using WD40 on aluminum. I did take a small job in SS which gave me fits. Would the soluble oil have made that cut better?

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 4:26:02 PM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut.. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

What RPM are you running the drill at?

various speeds- I've had this happen by hand with 1/4" bits and well as in
a Cameron drill press- so the bit in that must have been around 3/32" in
that case. Not enough feed pressure and I'm just spinning/burning the bit?
They bits were all used on stuff like Al, brass and plastic, some steel..
It's obvious pretty quick when a drill bit is dulled, and it's always the
cobalt stuff that ends up in the dull pile.

Never had this problem with genericy black oxide or HSS bits, pretty sure
all of those that I have are 118 degree though. Why are the cobalt ones
always 135 degrees in the first place?

135 degree cobalt split point drills are self centering. 135 degree drill bits are used for drilling into hard materials. They will last much longer on hard material. I often use 135 degree split point American made cobalt stub drills if I don't want to center drill first and position tolerance is .002 or greater.

The "coating" of hot rolled steel is often very abrasive. My choice for hand drilling would be a sulpher type oil not a water soluble oil. Be careful not to use too high an RPM or to light a feed.

Cobalt drills will take more heat before the cutting edge breaks down but they will chip easier if you force them.

"The "coating" of hot rolled steel is often very abrasive."

Should have used the word skin rather than coating.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:03:19 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I need to drill about 100 holes (around 5/16") in 1/8" hot roll plate. I
usually just use cutting oil from the hardware store, works fine, makes a
huge mess. Steel tube will be welded to the plates, each drilled with with
4 holes for fastening to supports for countertops.

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Any real difference between the two for hand drilling or use with a drill
press, or good reasons to pick one over the other for specific jobs?
I make my living as a machinist using CNC and manual machines.
Virtually all the machining I do uses water soluble oil at about 8%
concentration in water. It works great. A big enemy of HSS drills is
overheating. The drill steel gets relatively soft and dulls. When hand
drilling this can be a problem because it is often hard to apply
enough pressure to keep the drill bit cutting and the operator often
has the drill spinning too fast. So a water soluble oil coolant works
well because not only does it supply high pressure additives it also
removes heat very fast and keeps the drill bit cool.
Eric

Any favorite coolants you use? I'll order something something from MSC.
Prices range from $35 to $50 for a gallon for the water based coolant
concentrates.

For drilling with plain cutting oil, I tend to be happy when the oil just
starts to smoke, and for whatever reason, I've always had better luck
with HSS bits over cobalt which I tend to ruin faster. The HSS can be
cleaned up with even a worn out stone and will cut again.

Any suggestions for how hard you can push things with the water based
stuff? A few squirts from the spray bottle here and there is the amount
I'd be able to apply.

Well..many of my clients run cobalt or tungstun at 2000-3000 and
.003-.009 per rev feed. HSS tends to go down to 800-1200 at the same
feed rates

This of course depends on the size of the drill bit. Remember...the
bigger the bit..the slower you turn. Feed rates remain the same.

I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.

Then simply order split point drills from MSC or other suppliers of
GOOD drill bits.

Ive found "Vermont" at the local hardware stores..and they are hardly
"good".

They are "passible in a pinch"..but thats about all.

https://www.google.com/search?q=spli...utf-8&oe=utf-8



Gunner

jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

What RPM are you running the drill at?

various speeds- I've had this happen by hand with 1/4" bits and well as in
a Cameron drill press- so the bit in that must have been around 3/32" in
that case. Not enough feed pressure and I'm just spinning/burning the bit?
They bits were all used on stuff like Al, brass and plastic, some steel.
It's obvious pretty quick when a drill bit is dulled, and it's always the
cobalt stuff that ends up in the dull pile.

Never had this problem with genericy black oxide or HSS bits, pretty sure
all of those that I have are 118 degree though. Why are the cobalt ones
always 135 degrees in the first place?

135 degree cobalt split point drills are self centering. 135 degree drill bits are used for drilling into hard materials. They will last much longer on hard material. I often use 135 degree split point American made cobalt stub drills if I don't want to center drill first and position tolerance is .002 or greater.

The "coating" of hot rolled steel is often very abrasive. My choice for hand drilling would be a sulpher type oil not a water soluble oil. Be careful not to use too high an RPM or to light a feed.

Cobalt drills will take more heat before the cutting edge breaks down but they will chip easier if you force them.

I centerpunch first, but maybe the flatter angle of the 135 degree bits
don't even land in the punch mark or something.

Anyways, I did order some of the ws-5050 stuff from Enco, and I'll try it
and the standard pipe thread cutting oil just for fun. Getting my saw
aligned to 90 degrees resulted in a small scrap pile to experiment on.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 8:51:06 AM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:



I suspect it has something to do with the angles they bits are cut. The
cobalt stuff from a good hardware store is usually 135 degrees. I seem to
wear the tips out real quick, large or small. Never really figured out
why.


Are you wearing the edges or chipping them? Common high speed steel
(M2) is tougher than cobalt high speed steel (M42). M42 is more wear
resistant and has higher heat tolerance. The edges on M42 drills will
chip much more easily than common HSS drills, so I don't personally
think they're a good choice for general use in hand drills.

It's wear. The tips go dull and seem worn as If I drilled into a brick or
something.

What RPM are you running the drill at?

various speeds- I've had this happen by hand with 1/4" bits and well as in
a Cameron drill press- so the bit in that must have been around 3/32" in
that case. Not enough feed pressure and I'm just spinning/burning the bit?
They bits were all used on stuff like Al, brass and plastic, some steel.
It's obvious pretty quick when a drill bit is dulled, and it's always the
cobalt stuff that ends up in the dull pile.

Never had this problem with genericy black oxide or HSS bits, pretty sure
all of those that I have are 118 degree though. Why are the cobalt ones
always 135 degrees in the first place?

135 degree cobalt split point drills are self centering. 135 degree drill bits are used for drilling into hard materials. They will last much longer on hard material. I often use 135 degree split point American made cobalt stub drills if I don't want to center drill first and position tolerance is .002 or greater.

The "coating" of hot rolled steel is often very abrasive. My choice for hand drilling would be a sulpher type oil not a water soluble oil. Be careful not to use too high an RPM or to light a feed.

Cobalt drills will take more heat before the cutting edge breaks down but they will chip easier if you force them.

I centerpunch first, but maybe the flatter angle of the 135 degree bits
don't even land in the punch mark or something.

Anyways, I did order some of the ws-5050 stuff from Enco, and I'll try it
and the standard pipe thread cutting oil just for fun. Getting my saw
aligned to 90 degrees resulted in a small scrap pile to experiment on.

Good drills are expensive. USA made Cleveland and Precision Twist Drills are the drills I use most of the time. I have them in letter, fractional and number sets. They aren't cheap but they have done nothing but make me money with no hassles.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 4:24:58 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Welding instructor uses a spray bottle of a water based coolant, something
milky looking. It's not as messy and doesn't make everything rust either.
I tried it, but with a dull bit, it wasn't really a test of anything
meaningful for the short time I tried it out.

Maybe (or not) applicable to your HRS drilling, but when I drill (usually 1/4" pilots and then step-drill to size) conduit holes in stainless enclosures, I use a spray bottle of 91% isopropyl as a coolant. Works great, evaporates cleanly, cheap enough at Walgreens. Did about 30 of those holes for 1/2" - 1" pipes last week.

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

I ordered the rustlick ws-5050, been spraying the first mix of 1:10 on scrap metal
outside to see how quick it rusts or doesn't rust stuff.

Unfortunately, I tried Enco for this stuff and ordered two drill bits, to try out oil
vs. water based coolant. Of course the cheapo bits were completely different from
each other while technically still the same style and size. They did the same thing
with some 45/90 degree welding magnets, one is made in USA like in the photo and made
well, the other is some chicom garbage from the same manufacturer. That one has to go
back.

Ugh.

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

Oh, forgot the key part of the message.

Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:35:18 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

Oh, forgot the key part of the message.

Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

It will mess up the rubber over time. However they are easy to change
out.

Gunner

In article , Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:35:18 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

Oh, forgot the key part of the message.

Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee
equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

It will mess up the rubber over time. However they are easy to change
out.

As will oil. Try wax instead. There is a kind of wax made for just
this. I use the one made by Lenox.

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 20:18:44 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:35:18 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

Oh, forgot the key part of the message.

Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee
equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

It will mess up the rubber over time. However they are easy to change
out.

As will oil. Try wax instead. There is a kind of wax made for just
this. I use the one made by Lenox.

Joe Gwinn

Right. Wax lubricants for bandsaws are available from several sources
-- DoAll, Lenox, Olson, etc. You can even get it on Amazon.

It's the best stuff. When I cut metal on my old 14" Delta, I use a
stick I got from DoAll around 35 years ago. It lasts for a long time.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 20:18:44 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:35:18 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you have a horizontal saw and if it runs coolant - that is rust
preventing water based coolant. (most likely). That can be used in a
pinch.

Oh, forgot the key part of the message.

Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee
equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

It will mess up the rubber over time. However they are easy to change
out.

As will oil. Try wax instead. There is a kind of wax made for just
this. I use the one made by Lenox.

Joe Gwinn
Castrol of all people sold/sells a band saw wax as well. I have a
tube of it on my bandsaw for difficult cuts

Gunner

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:35:18 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

Not recommended. The lube that Rockwell recommended and supplied with
my PortaBand is a tube of beeswax. I wore that saw out and now have a
Milwaukee unit. Same tube of beeswax still working great.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

Neon John wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:35:18 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


Can coolants be used with a portaband (on the whatever the Milwaukee equivalent is
called) saw, or does that mess up the rubber wheels or bearings?

Not recommended. The lube that Rockwell recommended and supplied with
my PortaBand is a tube of beeswax. I wore that saw out and now have a
Milwaukee unit. Same tube of beeswax still working great.

I do have a tube of some sort of cutting wax, have used it with larger taps with
success. I never did see what it did with the portaband saw. Tried it on a hacksaw
for the hell of it and all it did was bind to the metal being cut off a clog the
teeth. Had to clean the blade with a file card to use it again.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:10:38 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


I do have a tube of some sort of cutting wax, have used it with larger taps with
success. I never did see what it did with the portaband saw. Tried it on a hacksaw
for the hell of it and all it did was bind to the metal being cut off a clog the
teeth. Had to clean the blade with a file card to use it again.

the beeswax works well because the blade gets hot enough to melt it;
the liquid wax flowing out of the cut carries away the chips. I think
you'd have to work pretty hard to get a hacksaw hot enough to do that.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

Neon John wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:10:38 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


I do have a tube of some sort of cutting wax, have used it with larger taps with
success. I never did see what it did with the portaband saw. Tried it on a hacksaw
for the hell of it and all it did was bind to the metal being cut off a clog the
teeth. Had to clean the blade with a file card to use it again.

the beeswax works well because the blade gets hot enough to melt it;
the liquid wax flowing out of the cut carries away the chips. I think
you'd have to work pretty hard to get a hacksaw hot enough to do that.

fair enough.

--Soluble oil is great stuff but you might want to set it up in a spray mist unit if you're able to do the job on a mill or drillpress so you've always got coverage. Hot rolled is nasty stuff at least until you break thru the 'crust' so go slow when you start the holes. One brand you might want to try is Westlube. I use it straight for stainless and titanium but you could probably thin it a bit on hot rolled to make it go a little further.