I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Gunner


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed

Gunner Asch wrote:
I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Gunner

Somebody's gonna be thirsty ... What percentage of full is that , 25%-35%
? Might look half-full , but the top half has about 3 times the capacity of
the bottom half ...
--
Snag

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:49:59 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Gunner

Somebody's gonna be thirsty ... What percentage of full is that , 25%-35%
? Might look half-full , but the top half has about 3 times the capacity of
the bottom half ...

A lot like Lake Travis near Austin. The storage lakes are at 36%. The
crazy building boom is going to go bust if it doesn't rain. A lot.

Pete Keillor

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken? This appears to be the start
of another 1,000 year drought cycle that finished off
several indian civilizations from Central America
http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu up into the American southwest
http://tinyurl.com/mtfwusg .

Are there any steps being taken to implement drip irrigation
for the orchards, or replace open field agriculture with
hydroponics? These can cut the water needed by 90 to 95%
and increase yield per acre up to 10X. Israel seems to be
the leader in this technology. Extensive desalinization is
another pallative, but will require massive energy input,
and this can't be done overnight.

Anyone projected the effects of massive internal
migration/displacement if the American southwest (and much
of Mexico) returns to desert conditions? Will camels
replace SUVs? Inquiring minds want to know! :-)


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On 3/20/2015 12:21 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/env...e11355200.html

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:49:59 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Gunner

Somebody's gonna be thirsty ... What percentage of full is that , 25%-35%
? Might look half-full , but the top half has about 3 times the capacity of
the bottom half ...

If you do some scaling..you will note that the water level is beyond
200 feet low. If you will note the concrete tower on the far end of
the dam..it should be partially submerged

If we dont get any rain next year..California is gonna be out..out of
water. Period. End Program. Full stop.

You can see last years water level on the dam ..the dark line.

Of course its only one..one of our dams..but its representative.

That being said...California gets regular droughts..with about a 12
yr period and a length of between 5 and 7 yrs..so ever 19 or so years
we almost run out of water..then it rains again for a few years and
refills the state.






"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:20:43 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:49:59 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Gunner

Somebody's gonna be thirsty ... What percentage of full is that , 25%-35%
? Might look half-full , but the top half has about 3 times the capacity of
the bottom half ...

A lot like Lake Travis near Austin. The storage lakes are at 36%. The
crazy building boom is going to go bust if it doesn't rain. A lot.

Pete Keillor

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...messages/11575

Eagle Mountain lake has the same problem...


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:21:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken? This appears to be the start
of another 1,000 year drought cycle that finished off
several indian civilizations from Central America
http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu up into the American southwest
http://tinyurl.com/mtfwusg .

Are there any steps being taken to implement drip irrigation
for the orchards, or replace open field agriculture with
hydroponics? These can cut the water needed by 90 to 95%
and increase yield per acre up to 10X. Israel seems to be
the leader in this technology. Extensive desalinization is
another pallative, but will require massive energy input,
and this can't be done overnight.

Anyone projected the effects of massive internal
migration/displacement if the American southwest (and much
of Mexico) returns to desert conditions? Will camels
replace SUVs? Inquiring minds want to know! :-)


http://www.infowars.com/california-f...-just-take-it/

Read this link and review the comments at the bottom:
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/11...to-developers/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102515180

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/...r-414093379755

The farmers must pay for 100% of their estimated water needs each
year...and each year they have been getting less and less
water..despite paying for it.

And the (non native) Delta Shrimp remain safe!!


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 12:45:16 -0700, ex-PFC Wintergreen
wrote:

On 3/20/2015 12:21 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/env...e11355200.html


They do have some options. First, stock up on deoderant and cologne.
It's going to be a smelly summer in many parts of California.

Second, smear yourself with Vaseline to cut down on skin evaporation.

Third, get some salt water soap. If you've ever tried to wash with
regular soap in salt water, you know what I mean. The soap turns to
something like Crisco. But, if that happens, leave it on. See
"Vaseline," above.

Eat more fried food, instead of boiled or steamed.

Kiss your lawn goodbye.

Suck on a cactus.

Move.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:05:32 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:21:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken? This appears to be the start
of another 1,000 year drought cycle that finished off
several indian civilizations from Central America
http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu up into the American southwest
http://tinyurl.com/mtfwusg .

Are there any steps being taken to implement drip irrigation
for the orchards, or replace open field agriculture with
hydroponics? These can cut the water needed by 90 to 95%
and increase yield per acre up to 10X. Israel seems to be
the leader in this technology. Extensive desalinization is
another pallative, but will require massive energy input,
and this can't be done overnight.

Anyone projected the effects of massive internal
migration/displacement if the American southwest (and much
of Mexico) returns to desert conditions? Will camels
replace SUVs? Inquiring minds want to know! :-)


http://www.infowars.com/california-f...-just-take-it/

Read this link and review the comments at the bottom:
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/11...to-developers/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102515180

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/...r-414093379755

The farmers must pay for 100% of their estimated water needs each
year...and each year they have been getting less and less
water..despite paying for it.

And the (non native) Delta Shrimp remain safe!!

-----------------------
Scanned the articles and comments.

More "new think" and "double speak," aka "blowing smoke."
Part of the problem lies in the way the water district drew
up the contracts. They could have specified the water was
to be used only for agriculture but did not.

Back to my original question, what is being done to prepare
for a drought that historically will last for generations?
At the very least are any contingency evacuation and
resettlement plans being formulated?


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 18:46:41 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:05:32 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:21:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken? This appears to be the start
of another 1,000 year drought cycle that finished off
several indian civilizations from Central America
http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu up into the American southwest
http://tinyurl.com/mtfwusg .

Are there any steps being taken to implement drip irrigation
for the orchards, or replace open field agriculture with
hydroponics? These can cut the water needed by 90 to 95%
and increase yield per acre up to 10X. Israel seems to be
the leader in this technology. Extensive desalinization is
another pallative, but will require massive energy input,
and this can't be done overnight.

Anyone projected the effects of massive internal
migration/displacement if the American southwest (and much
of Mexico) returns to desert conditions? Will camels
replace SUVs? Inquiring minds want to know! :-)


http://www.infowars.com/california-f...-just-take-it/

Read this link and review the comments at the bottom:
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/11...to-developers/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102515180

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/...r-414093379755

The farmers must pay for 100% of their estimated water needs each
year...and each year they have been getting less and less
water..despite paying for it.

And the (non native) Delta Shrimp remain safe!!

-----------------------
Scanned the articles and comments.

More "new think" and "double speak," aka "blowing smoke."
Part of the problem lies in the way the water district drew
up the contracts. They could have specified the water was
to be used only for agriculture but did not.

Back to my original question, what is being done to prepare
for a drought that historically will last for generations?
At the very least are any contingency evacuation and
resettlement plans being formulated?

Why would you think the drought will last for generations? Some
years we have enough water..some years not enough water..some years
way the **** too much water.

Climate is a funny thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862

Notice the periods OF the flood years here..and the times between
them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

That's about the same thing I saw last October when I went across the
bridge over Lake Shasta. 75-100' low, I'd guess.

What I don't understand is why 'they' allow so many ORCHARDS to die
while allowing all the idiots growing the water-hungry RICE to thrive.
Rice can go a year without being planted/watered. TREES can't. I saw
half a dozen 5-100 acre orchards all dead on my last drive through
NorCal. It made me sick, then angry when I saw the flooded rice
paddies. Where is their sense of honor and value?

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:21:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:38:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:35:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015

Gunner

Man, that's dry. You're going to have to switch to drinking booze if
that keeps up.

Ed
===========================
I know there is a lot of hand wringing going on, but what
*REAL* steps have been taken? This appears to be the start
of another 1,000 year drought cycle that finished off
several indian civilizations from Central America
http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu up into the American southwest
http://tinyurl.com/mtfwusg .

That is impossible, Unka, because everyone knows, -man- made all
droughts via AGWK. Just ask a Librul.


Are there any steps being taken to implement drip irrigation
for the orchards, or replace open field agriculture with
hydroponics? These can cut the water needed by 90 to 95%
and increase yield per acre up to 10X. Israel seems to be
the leader in this technology. Extensive desalinization is
another pallative, but will require massive energy input,
and this can't be done overnight.

Sandy Eggo's is putting in beaucoup desal at the Encina Plant.
That was close to where I used to live. http://tinyurl.com/pprdj6v
50M gal/day, plus look at all the proposals in SoCal. UFR!


Anyone projected the effects of massive internal
migration/displacement if the American southwest (and much
of Mexico) returns to desert conditions? Will camels
replace SUVs? Inquiring minds want to know! :-)

The migration I'm still waiting for is the one where the illegals go
home.

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Notice the periods OF the flood years here..and the times between
them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Why would you think the drought will last for generations? Some
years we have enough water..some years not enough water..some years
way the **** too much water.
snip
The historical/geological record shows these long cycles
http://tinyurl.com/md969j8 . Seems to have been what
happened to the Mayans http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu
http://tinyurl.com/6chd3nz and several other [extinct]
peoples. Moved in and prospered during the wet half of the
cycle and had to leave when the dry half of the cycle hit,
and it lasted for generations. Many southwest residents may
may well have to do the same.

FWIW human activity *MAY* be exacerbating/accelerating the
conditions causing the drought, but given that these
"mega-droughts" have occurred several time in the past, as
indicated by the tree rings, clearly it cannot be *THE*
cause. http://tinyurl.com/myt5lkk

Its dustbowl time again, but this time the Okies are moving
back to Oklahoma... http://tinyurl.com/myt5lkk



--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:18:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Notice the periods OF the flood years here..and the times between
them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

We also have a ****load of people. Until recently..more and more were
moving in each and every day.

Its a huge, wide open state with land for everybody. However there
isn't enough water for everybody..and that is the problem.

We can either be the nations breadbasket..OR we can be the nations
bedroom community..but we cant be both.



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 23:13:48 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Why would you think the drought will last for generations? Some
years we have enough water..some years not enough water..some years
way the **** too much water.
snip
The historical/geological record shows these long cycles
http://tinyurl.com/md969j8 . Seems to have been what
happened to the Mayans http://tinyurl.com/m8wnyzu
http://tinyurl.com/6chd3nz and several other [extinct]
peoples. Moved in and prospered during the wet half of the
cycle and had to leave when the dry half of the cycle hit,
and it lasted for generations. Many southwest residents may
may well have to do the same.

FWIW human activity *MAY* be exacerbating/accelerating the
conditions causing the drought, but given that these
"mega-droughts" have occurred several time in the past, as
indicated by the tree rings, clearly it cannot be *THE*
cause. http://tinyurl.com/myt5lkk

Its dustbowl time again, but this time the Okies are moving
back to Oklahoma... http://tinyurl.com/myt5lkk

And Texas and Georgia and Alabama etc etc etc..and they are taking
their businesses..and tax dollars with them.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:21:42 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:18:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Notice the periods OF the flood years here..and the times between
them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.


We also have a ****load of people. Until recently..more and more were
moving in each and every day.

Including over 12 Million illegal aliens.


Its a huge, wide open state with land for everybody. However there
isn't enough water for everybody..and that is the problem.

California is a desert state. Everyone has known that from the start.
But now, Nevada and Arizona are claiming their share of the Colorado
water, and it's coming to haunt CA. Or at least HelL.A.tians.


We can either be the nations breadbasket..OR we can be the nations
bedroom community..but we cant be both.

I vote for breadbasket, please. I like cheap CA foods and veggies.
I can do without the crappy Calrose rice, though. Icky!

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 11:49:59 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
I took some photos yesterday of Lake Castaic, which is a man made
lake at the foot of the Grapevine ..(mountain range I travel weekly
between Los Angeles and the Central Valley.)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02/Castaic2015


Somebody's gonna be thirsty ... What percentage of full is
that , 25%-35% ? Might look half-full , but the top half has
about 3 times the capacity of the bottom half ...

"Nearly 60 percent of the world's 12,500 desalination plants are in the Middle East. There, they generate 70 percent of the region's water, according to the Texas Water Development Board." -ibtimes

You could either move to the jungle or get a desalination plant.

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:23:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Its dustbowl time again, but this time the Okies are moving
back to Oklahoma... http://tinyurl.com/myt5lkk

And Texas and Georgia and Alabama etc etc etc..and they are taking
their businesses..and tax dollars with them.
==============
If anyone is following this thread this may be of interest.
http://tinyurl.com/kyuqomr


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 06:23:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:21:42 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:18:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Notice the periods OF the flood years here..and the times between
them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Define "enough"
This is year 14 of the drought as some people think it. Now all we
really need to do is get ride of 8 million illegals....


We also have a ****load of people. Until recently..more and more were
moving in each and every day.

Including over 12 Million illegal aliens.

Estimated illegals in the US run between 20-30 Million


Its a huge, wide open state with land for everybody. However there
isn't enough water for everybody..and that is the problem.

California is a desert state. Everyone has known that from the start.
But now, Nevada and Arizona are claiming their share of the Colorado
water, and it's coming to haunt CA. Or at least HelL.A.tians.

Ayup. Everything south of Sacramento can indeed be considered desert.


We can either be the nations breadbasket..OR we can be the nations
bedroom community..but we cant be both.

I vote for breadbasket, please. I like cheap CA foods and veggies.
I can do without the crappy Calrose rice, though. Icky!

Indeed!


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:08:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:23:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip
Its dustbowl time again, but this time the Okies are moving
back to Oklahoma... http://tinyurl.com/myt5lkk

And Texas and Georgia and Alabama etc etc etc..and they are taking
their businesses..and tax dollars with them.
==============
If anyone is following this thread this may be of interest.
http://tinyurl.com/kyuqomr


Thanks!

Many of Californias reseviors are used exactly for this
purpose...replenishing ground water. We have probably a full 1000
that are not "public access"..no boating and fishing and are dry much
of the year..but when it rains..it catches the rain water and allows
it to sink into the water table. My county (Kern) has at least 15 such
if not more.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 11:30:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 06:23:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:21:42 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:18:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 19:00:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Notice the periods OF the flood years here..and the times between
them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Define "enough"
This is year 14 of the drought as some people think it. Now all we
really need to do is get ride of 8 million illegals....

12+ million. Enough is having sufficient water to continue flowing
-during- those 14 years of drought.


We also have a ****load of people. Until recently..more and more were
moving in each and every day.

Including over 12 Million illegal aliens.

Estimated illegals in the US run between 20-30 Million

A more honest guess is 50M or more.


Its a huge, wide open state with land for everybody. However there
isn't enough water for everybody..and that is the problem.

California is a desert state. Everyone has known that from the start.
But now, Nevada and Arizona are claiming their share of the Colorado
water, and it's coming to haunt CA. Or at least HelL.A.tians.

Ayup. Everything south of Sacramento can indeed be considered desert.

The Mojave, the Sonoran, the Colorado, and the Great Basin deserts all
dwell there.


--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

Larry Jaques on Sat, 21 Mar 2015
06:23:01 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Part of the problem is that over the last several decades, while
the population has been increasing, from immigration and "natural
increase" - there has been no co-responding increase in storage
capacity. Something about protecting the environment, and stopping
all those nasty dam building project.
Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 3/21/2015 8:19 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Kiss your lawn goodbye.

I read an article a while back about California fining residents of some
towns for watering their lawns, while one of the cities in the affected
area, says it will fine those that don't water their lawns.
Only in California....
About time for the guys that spray paint dead lawns green to make a
comeback.

But another article predicts if the drought holds a few more years, a
huge portion of California residents will move elsewhere, devastating
the economy.

Jon

On 3/22/2015 2:21 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

Don't recall how many years ago, was a while, but the Sierras had
collected a very heavy snow pack. Then spring arrived much sooner and
hotter than normal, and the runoff picked up quickly. Folsom dam was
dumping water as fast as they could trying to stay ahead of it.
It revived interest in finishing the Auburn dam, for a while anyway...


Jon

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:21:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 21 Mar 2015
06:23:01 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Part of the problem is that over the last several decades, while
the population has been increasing, from immigration and "natural
increase" - there has been no co-responding increase in storage
capacity. Something about protecting the environment, and stopping
all those nasty dam building project.
Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Then we have that Delta Smelt issue..preventing Sacramento River Delta
water from being pumped into the system. A long term issue..very long
term.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/is.../?IssueID=5921


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:21:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 21 Mar 2015
06:23:01 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Part of the problem is that over the last several decades, while
the population has been increasing, from immigration and "natural
increase" - there has been no co-responding increase in storage
capacity. Something about protecting the environment, and stopping
all those nasty dam building project.
Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

We've had our dams removed recently (they were damaging the salmon
swimming upstream) but now the salmon are damaging themselves in the
riffles due to low water levels. I guess our AGWK is all to blame,
too.

Hey, maybe it was the sharp rocks in the riffles which hurt the salmon
in the first place. Nah, had to be the nasty man-made dams, huh?
deep sigh

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 17:20:51 +1100, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 3/21/2015 8:19 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Kiss your lawn goodbye.

I read an article a while back about California fining residents of some
towns for watering their lawns, while one of the cities in the affected
area, says it will fine those that don't water their lawns.
Only in California....
About time for the guys that spray paint dead lawns green to make a
comeback.

But another article predicts if the drought holds a few more years, a
huge portion of California residents will move elsewhere, devastating
the economy.

Jon

We really need to find ways to deal with this. It's going to affect
the whole country in negative ways if we don't.

There's a lot of development work going on with desalination, and I
don't doubt they can solve the drinking-water problem, and take care
of residential and even indistrial use. But agriculture is going to be
tougher, and we depend heavily on California produce.

I suspect that other parts of the country, ones that are now producing
mostly grain crops, could take up the slack. But that would mean huge
displacements of people and production.

I don't know the numbers, and numbers are the big story here, but my
feeling is that we're not taking this issue seriously enough. Even if
it is a natural cycle, and that it will solve itself in the long run,
as Keynes said, in the long run, we're all dead.

--
Ed Huntress

On 03/22/2015 10:34 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
....

I suspect that other parts of the country, ones that are now producing
mostly grain crops, could take up the slack. But that would mean huge
displacements of people and production.
....

Not much, no...the midwest is generally too short a growing season for
the produce crops to make it particularly productive for much of the
CA-specific production, sorry.

And, of course, much of us are in severe drought as well as the jet
patterns and the El Nino/La Nina and the general global oscillation
patterns are global, hence affect broad areas similarly...

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

Draw a line from the Pacific NW corner to the southern tip of FL on the
map and with a few exceptions other than the coastal NW and towards the
SE, if you're to the south and west of the line it ain't good. The two
targets are, of course, S CA and TX/OK/KS. The good news is that it has
begun to at least abate somewhat in the midwest indications are some
more movement. Last two years, all of KS was at least D2-D3 and 40% was
D4 (exceptional) extending the current areas that show D0/D1 in the
upper high plains/midwest to D2/D3...

Being dryland wheat/milo farmer in SW KS, we pay attention to such
things... (We're in that D3 bullseye in the SW corner)

--

Gunner Asch on Sun, 22 Mar 2015 00:55:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:21:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 21 Mar 2015
06:23:01 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Part of the problem is that over the last several decades, while
the population has been increasing, from immigration and "natural
increase" - there has been no co-responding increase in storage
capacity. Something about protecting the environment, and stopping
all those nasty dam building project.
Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

Then we have that Delta Smelt issue..preventing Sacramento River Delta
water from being pumped into the system. A long term issue..very long
term.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/is.../?IssueID=5921

Which is politics exacerbating an existing "natural" situation.

My understanding of California history is that the first four
attempts to settle in the LA basin failed, due to famine and drought.


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:09:28 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/22/2015 10:34 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...

I suspect that other parts of the country, ones that are now producing
mostly grain crops, could take up the slack. But that would mean huge
displacements of people and production.
...

Not much, no...the midwest is generally too short a growing season for
the produce crops to make it particularly productive for much of the
CA-specific production, sorry.

And, of course, much of us are in severe drought as well as the jet
patterns and the El Nino/La Nina and the general global oscillation
patterns are global, hence affect broad areas similarly...

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

Draw a line from the Pacific NW corner to the southern tip of FL on the
map and with a few exceptions other than the coastal NW and towards the
SE, if you're to the south and west of the line it ain't good. The two
targets are, of course, S CA and TX/OK/KS. The good news is that it has
begun to at least abate somewhat in the midwest indications are some
more movement. Last two years, all of KS was at least D2-D3 and 40% was
D4 (exceptional) extending the current areas that show D0/D1 in the
upper high plains/midwest to D2/D3...

Being dryland wheat/milo farmer in SW KS, we pay attention to such
things... (We're in that D3 bullseye in the SW corner)

Oh, that's interesting. I just took a look at some of the animated
drought maps. It looks brutal.

--
Ed Huntress

On 3/22/2015 12:55 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:21:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 21 Mar 2015
06:23:01 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Part of the problem is that over the last several decades, while
the population has been increasing, from immigration and "natural
increase" - there has been no co-responding increase in storage
capacity. Something about protecting the environment, and stopping
all those nasty dam building project.
Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Then we have that Delta Smelt issue..preventing Sacramento River Delta
water from being pumped into the system. A long term issue..very long
term.

Why don't you just send your buddies on motorcycles in the middle of the
night to menace the legislators, gummer. That should get them to
reconsider. chortle

On 03/22/2015 11:26 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:09:28 -0500, wrote:
....

Being dryland wheat/milo farmer in SW KS, we pay attention to such
things... (We're in that D3 bullseye in the SW corner)

Oh, that's interesting. I just took a look at some of the animated
drought maps. It looks brutal.

'Tain't good, fur shure...last year ended up not _too_ bad locally,
depending on just when/where local showers fell. We're in fourth year;
unfortunately, the USDA starts the drought clock over at the beginning
of each calendar year so as far as their concerns go, it's a yearly
thing. Were "century farm" this past year; grandfather homesteaded this
place in 1914 so went the the Dust Bowl of the 30s. In looking back,
two years ago we had less total here at the house than any year he
recorded--just under 10" as compared to about 12" was lowest in the 30s.
The early 50s was another stretch here, it holds our personal record
of '55-56 of only 9" for the year. That one was broken by a "blizzard
of the century" in late spring of '57 that lasted from a Saturday
afternoon thru next Monday night at 50-70 mph wind and snow.

'58 began a stretch of very good years, similar to those of the '20s
when grandfather was getting established--if hadn't had that stretch
wouldn't have been able to hang thru the 30s.

--

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:21:12 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sun, 22 Mar 2015 00:55:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:21:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 21 Mar 2015
06:23:01 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_California

With floods that predictable, my question is: "Why hasn't anyone built
100+ reservoirs to catch it all every 14-24 years?" Hmm...

We have a ****load of reservoirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._in_California

Some 1400 of them

But not nearly enough, as is well evident.

Part of the problem is that over the last several decades, while
the population has been increasing, from immigration and "natural
increase" - there has been no co-responding increase in storage
capacity. Something about protecting the environment, and stopping
all those nasty dam building project.
Not saying raising the height of some of the dams would be a cure
all, but, increasing the capacity of the dams means that less water
has to be sent over the spillway to make way for the spring floods.

Then we have that Delta Smelt issue..preventing Sacramento River Delta
water from being pumped into the system. A long term issue..very long
term.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/is.../?IssueID=5921

Which is politics exacerbating an existing "natural" situation.

My understanding of California history is that the first four
attempts to settle in the LA basin failed, due to famine and drought.

Then came William Mulholland.

There was a good movie with Jack Nicholson which tapped that theme.
Chinatown, 1974.

http://www.laaqueduct100.com/vltg_portfolio/movies/ More info on the
result of Mulholland's work.

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:16:35 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/22/2015 11:26 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:09:28 -0500, wrote:
...

Being dryland wheat/milo farmer in SW KS, we pay attention to such
things... (We're in that D3 bullseye in the SW corner)

Oh, that's interesting. I just took a look at some of the animated
drought maps. It looks brutal.

'Tain't good, fur shure...last year ended up not _too_ bad locally,
depending on just when/where local showers fell. We're in fourth year;
unfortunately, the USDA starts the drought clock over at the beginning
of each calendar year so as far as their concerns go, it's a yearly
thing. Were "century farm" this past year; grandfather homesteaded this
place in 1914 so went the the Dust Bowl of the 30s. In looking back,
two years ago we had less total here at the house than any year he
recorded--just under 10" as compared to about 12" was lowest in the 30s.
The early 50s was another stretch here, it holds our personal record
of '55-56 of only 9" for the year. That one was broken by a "blizzard
of the century" in late spring of '57 that lasted from a Saturday
afternoon thru next Monday night at 50-70 mph wind and snow.

'58 began a stretch of very good years, similar to those of the '20s
when grandfather was getting established--if hadn't had that stretch
wouldn't have been able to hang thru the 30s.

Your family was right in there for an important part of American
history. I'll bet they have some great stories.

--
Ed Huntress

On 03/22/2015 6:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:16:35 -0500, wrote:

On 03/22/2015 11:26 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:09:28 -0500, wrote:
...

Being dryland wheat/milo farmer in SW KS, we pay attention to such
things... (We're in that D3 bullseye in the SW corner)

Oh, that's interesting. I just took a look at some of the animated
drought maps. It looks brutal.

'Tain't good, fur shure...last year ended up not _too_ bad locally,
depending on just when/where local showers fell. We're in fourth year;
unfortunately, the USDA starts the drought clock over at the beginning
of each calendar year so as far as their concerns go, it's a yearly
thing. Were "century farm" this past year; grandfather homesteaded this
place in 1914 so went the the Dust Bowl of the 30s. In looking back,
two years ago we had less total here at the house than any year he
recorded--just under 10" as compared to about 12" was lowest in the 30s.
The early 50s was another stretch here, it holds our personal record
of '55-56 of only 9" for the year. That one was broken by a "blizzard
of the century" in late spring of '57 that lasted from a Saturday
afternoon thru next Monday night at 50-70 mph wind and snow.

'58 began a stretch of very good years, similar to those of the '20s
when grandfather was getting established--if hadn't had that stretch
wouldn't have been able to hang thru the 30s.

Your family was right in there for an important part of American
history. I'll bet they have some great stories.

Have only one Auntie still around...she was grade-school age thru the
worst of the 30s. She had a girlfriend who's father worked for the City
utility in town which was a real gift to have a reliable job at the
time. She said this friend said a final "...and bless Liberal Power
Company!" for a closing bedtime prayer every night.

A great aunt kept a letter from one of my other aunts (older than the
above) who told her story of the week--she had, amongst school work and
other ordinary chores, gathered, washed, candled and packed 96-dozen
eggs. And this, of course, was just one week of a never-ending stretch
of them. The letter ends with the lament "And, oh, the EGGS!!!"

Them was tough folks...

--

On 03/23/2015 9:22 AM, dpb wrote:
....

....[couple of SW KS Dust Bowl stories elided for brevity]...


Them was tough folks...

One last one...my grandfather, "Andy" and his brother initially
homesteaded on this "home quarter" together. After a couple of years
grandpa bought out Frank who moved to another place NE of town about 10
miles north of us. Granddad was a "go-getter", Frank was a little more
relaxed in his approach to things; still quite successful, but a little
more given to diversion.

The story is that while still farming together and heading out for
morning chores on day Frank says, "Andy, I never was afraid of work but
_must_ we sneak up on it in the dark?"

--

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 09:22:37 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/22/2015 6:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:16:35 -0500, wrote:

On 03/22/2015 11:26 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:09:28 -0500, wrote:
...

Being dryland wheat/milo farmer in SW KS, we pay attention to such
things... (We're in that D3 bullseye in the SW corner)

Oh, that's interesting. I just took a look at some of the animated
drought maps. It looks brutal.

'Tain't good, fur shure...last year ended up not _too_ bad locally,
depending on just when/where local showers fell. We're in fourth year;
unfortunately, the USDA starts the drought clock over at the beginning
of each calendar year so as far as their concerns go, it's a yearly
thing. Were "century farm" this past year; grandfather homesteaded this
place in 1914 so went the the Dust Bowl of the 30s. In looking back,
two years ago we had less total here at the house than any year he
recorded--just under 10" as compared to about 12" was lowest in the 30s.
The early 50s was another stretch here, it holds our personal record
of '55-56 of only 9" for the year. That one was broken by a "blizzard
of the century" in late spring of '57 that lasted from a Saturday
afternoon thru next Monday night at 50-70 mph wind and snow.

'58 began a stretch of very good years, similar to those of the '20s
when grandfather was getting established--if hadn't had that stretch
wouldn't have been able to hang thru the 30s.

Your family was right in there for an important part of American
history. I'll bet they have some great stories.

Have only one Auntie still around...she was grade-school age thru the
worst of the 30s. She had a girlfriend who's father worked for the City
utility in town which was a real gift to have a reliable job at the
time. She said this friend said a final "...and bless Liberal Power
Company!" for a closing bedtime prayer every night.

A great aunt kept a letter from one of my other aunts (older than the
above) who told her story of the week--she had, amongst school work and
other ordinary chores, gathered, washed, candled and packed 96-dozen
eggs. And this, of course, was just one week of a never-ending stretch
of them. The letter ends with the lament "And, oh, the EGGS!!!"

Them was tough folks...

I'll say they were tough. We have plenty of Depression-era stories in
my family, but combining it with the Dust Bowl must have made them
epic.

My Depression-era relatives were hard-boiled New Englanders. I never
knew if it was the Depression that boiled them so hard, or if it was
just three centuries of plowing rocks.

--
Ed Huntress