I often cruse through the local scrap yard and not find anything that I want. But yesterday there was a console and I striped out of it some useful stuff.

A power strip about six feet long with an outlet about every 10 inches. It will replace the power strip behind my bench that has about half as many outlets.

Another power strip with nine outlets and one switch. Short only about 20 inches long.

A bunch of power cords with plugs.

A temperature controller.

A 24 volt very small power supply.

A panel with a dozen dpdt center off toggle switches.

A bunch of terminal strips.

And not part of the console, a electric heater assembly from a heat pump and a nice sized box for controlling three model trains with three reostats and toggle switches.

All told 35 lbs of stuff. They asked $9 ,but I gave them $10. It will all even out eventually. Not earth shattering, but I hate to buy stuff like that retail.

Topping out the day, I got a package from China with a dozen 5 gram tubes of diamond lapping paste. It was just over $10.


Dan

Those extra long power strips are extremely useful to have on your big
bench or desk.

i

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 10:19:29 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus18163 wrote:
Those extra long power strips are extremely useful to have on your big
bench or desk.

i

My bench is not all that big, but the current power strip only has 6 outlets. The new one has 11 outlets in the same length. More is not always better, but in this case it is.

Dan

Hey Dan,

Put altogether, that's running into a MAJOR gloat !!

Mind if I ask where you ordered the diamond paste? URL available?

Thank you.

Happy New Year.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 06:59:49 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

I often cruse through the local scrap yard and not find anything that I want. But yesterday there was a console and I striped out of it some useful stuff.

A power strip about six feet long with an outlet about every 10 inches. It will replace the power strip behind my bench that has about half as many outlets.

Another power strip with nine outlets and one switch. Short only about 20 inches long.

A bunch of power cords with plugs.

A temperature controller.

A 24 volt very small power supply.

A panel with a dozen dpdt center off toggle switches.

A bunch of terminal strips.

And not part of the console, a electric heater assembly from a heat pump and a nice sized box for controlling three model trains with three reostats and toggle switches.

All told 35 lbs of stuff. They asked $9 ,but I gave them $10. It will all even out eventually. Not earth shattering, but I hate to buy stuff like that retail.

Topping out the day, I got a package from China with a dozen 5 gram tubes of diamond lapping paste. It was just over $10.


Dan

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 4:38:09 PM UTC-5, Brian Lawson wrote:
Hey Dan,

Mind if I ask where you ordered the diamond paste? URL available?

Thank you.

Happy New Year.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Ebay item # 191259749827

mrshop128 is the vendors name.

You are welcome.

Dan

wrote:
On Saturday, January 3, 2015 4:38:09 PM UTC-5, Brian Lawson wrote:
Hey Dan,

Mind if I ask where you ordered the diamond paste? URL available?

Thank you.

Happy New Year.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Ebay item # 191259749827

mrshop128 is the vendors name.

You are welcome.

Dan

I ordered some too ... I have some bearings (loose rollers !) that will need
lapping as I rebuild the trans and motor for Dad's old Harley . 1939 WLDD
flathead mutt .

--
Snag

On Sat, 03 Jan 2015 16:38:04 -0500, Brian Lawson
wrote:

Hey Dan,

Put altogether, that's running into a MAJOR gloat !!

Mind if I ask where you ordered the diamond paste? URL available?

eBay vendors have it for a buck or two, including shipping.
Goto www.ebay.com and search for "diamond lapping paste"
http://tinyurl.com/lc7qc6z Look for the 6pc sets, and watch those
larger lots going for a penny. You'll often pay more for them, but
some escape for the single penny, delivered halfway around the world
to you. It's crazy great.
13pc of 5g syringes of varying grits, $10.50 w/ free shipping.


I got another Chinese Connection package in the mail today, too. Ten
15w LED spotlights with E27 (medium light bulb) base for $24.53, dlvd.
They're beautifully bright, and 2 are now adorning my motion/security
light over the front walk and one is lighting my living room bookcase.
50 other shapes and sizes of LEDs are on the way, too. Some T10
wedgies of varying SMD-counts and sizes (2106, 3528, and 5050), and
some T10 bases with pigtails for stray work. All are 5500-6500k in
color, nice and white. Prices were $0.04-0.99 each. The funny thing
is that some were running $2.29 apiece, but I picked up a lot of 10
for $2.99, with free shipping. I love it.

(snipped Dan's nice gloat)


Here's some other fun stuff from China:

10pc 5k 1/2W pots for $3.19 wfs (with free shipping)
10pc 10k 1/2W pots for $3.19 wfs
10pc knobs for above pots for $0.99 wfs
New 30v 5a bench power supply for $51.99 wfs (US vendor)
2pc aluminum carabiner water bottle clip w/ compass $0.99 wfs
USB multimeter tester $1.25 wfs
EN-EL9 battery for my Nikon $6.35 wfs (US vendor)
21w white LED ceiling light fixture $17.16 wfs
14 function bicycle repair tool/chain brkr $4.29 wfs
http://tinyurl.com/nnkyqtc 3 hole knotting tool (tent holddown rope
sliding clip)

(Merry Christmas to Larry from Larry)

--
All I want is a warm bed,
a kind word, and
U N L I M I T E D P O W E R !
--anon

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:11:00 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:

eBay vendors have it for a buck or two, including shipping.
Goto www.ebay.com and search for "diamond lapping paste"
http://tinyurl.com/lc7qc6z Look for the 6pc sets, and watch those
larger lots going for a penny. You'll often pay more for them, but
some escape for the single penny, delivered halfway around the world
to you. It's crazy great.
13pc of 5g syringes of varying grits, $10.50 w/ free shipping.


(Merry Christmas to Larry from Larry)



I might have been able to have paid a little less. I just bought from the lowest price vendor in the buy it now option. I paid $10.44 for 12 syringes.

Dan

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

wrote:
On Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:11:00 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:

eBay vendors have it for a buck or two, including shipping.
Goto www.ebay.com and search for "diamond lapping paste"
http://tinyurl.com/lc7qc6z Look for the 6pc sets, and watch those
larger lots going for a penny. You'll often pay more for them, but
some escape for the single penny, delivered halfway around the world
to you. It's crazy great.
13pc of 5g syringes of varying grits, $10.50 w/ free shipping.


(Merry Christmas to Larry from Larry)



I might have been able to have paid a little less. I just bought
from the lowest price vendor in the buy it now option. I paid $10.44
for 12 syringes.

Dan

I bought the same dozen from the same seller . Dan , I have a bearing race
that's pressed into a hole in a Harley 3 speed case . That race was
perfectly fitted to the clutch gear before I pressed it into the case . Now
it's out of round ... thus the need to lap the race . I'm wondering if it's
worth the trouble of peressing it back out to check the hole and the race .
Might be that the race is perfect and the hole is out of round , might be
variations in the thickness of the race . Either way it's unacceptable as-is
with OOR .0015" total
Should I decide to lap it in place , what material do you suggest for the
lap ? I have on hand lead , wheel weight material , aluminum , and several
grades of steel . I can cast anything but the steel directly onto a mandrel
for machining to maintain concentricity - I will be using a guide bushing on
the other side of the case to maintain alignment . I started an adjustable
lap set several years ago , but it never really worked out like I wanted . I
did learn a lot though !
--
Snag

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:41:38 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:


. Dan , I have a bearing race
that's pressed into a hole in a Harley 3 speed case . That race was
perfectly fitted to the clutch gear before I pressed it into the case . Now
it's out of round ... thus the need to lap the race . I'm wondering if it's
worth the trouble of peressing it back out to check the hole and the race .
Might be that the race is perfect and the hole is out of round , might be
variations in the thickness of the race . Either way it's unacceptable as-is
with OOR .0015" total
Should I decide to lap it in place , what material do you suggest for the
lap ? I have on hand lead , wheel weight material , aluminum , and several
grades of steel . I can cast anything but the steel directly onto a mandrel
for machining to maintain concentricity - I will be using a guide bushing on
the other side of the case to maintain alignment . I started an adjustable
lap set several years ago , but it never really worked out like I wanted .. I
did learn a lot though !
--
Snag

I would press the race out of the housing. The race is not likely to have been out of round or have variations in the thickness. So I suspect the hole is not round.


I am not an expert on laps and lapping. What I read is that the lap must be softer than the metal being lapped. That is so the abrasive embeds in the lap and cuts the metal. So what is the Harley case made of? I suspect aluminum so you would want something softer than aluminum. So lead or wheel weight material. I think most wheel weights are now Zinc and could be too hard. That assumes you are lapping the hole and not the race. If you lap the hole , you may need to use locktite compound when you put the race back in. I am pretty sure they have a compound for seating bearings. yes, they have several retaining compounds.

Dan

On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 18:38:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

Too bad you have to shut off the power/remove the cord/disassemble the
circuit to install those. Handy gadgets, tho.

--
All I want is a warm bed,
a kind word, and
U N L I M I T E D P O W E R !
--anon

wrote:
On Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:41:38 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:


. Dan , I have a bearing race
that's pressed into a hole in a Harley 3 speed case . That race was
perfectly fitted to the clutch gear before I pressed it into the
case . Now it's out of round ... thus the need to lap the race . I'm
wondering if it's worth the trouble of peressing it back out to
check the hole and the race . Might be that the race is perfect and
the hole is out of round , might be variations in the thickness of
the race . Either way it's unacceptable as-is with OOR .0015" total
Should I decide to lap it in place , what material do you suggest
for the lap ? I have on hand lead , wheel weight material , aluminum
, and several grades of steel . I can cast anything but the steel
directly onto a mandrel for machining to maintain concentricity - I
will be using a guide bushing on the other side of the case to
maintain alignment . I started an adjustable lap set several years
ago , but it never really worked out like I wanted . I did learn a
lot though ! --
Snag

I would press the race out of the housing. The race is not likely to
have been out of round or have variations in the thickness. So I
suspect the hole is not round.


I am not an expert on laps and lapping. What I read is that the lap
must be softer than the metal being lapped. That is so the abrasive
embeds in the lap and cuts the metal. So what is the Harley case
made of? I suspect aluminum so you would want something softer than
aluminum. So lead or wheel weight material. I think most wheel
weights are now Zinc and could be too hard. That assumes you are
lapping the hole and not the race. If you lap the hole , you may
need to use locktite compound when you put the race back in. I am
pretty sure they have a compound for seating bearings. yes, they
have several retaining compounds.

Dan

If I modify the case it'll be with a boring head . I hadn't considered
using a retaining compound . I was just thinking about the forces involved -
this bearing is also the main thrust bearing for the clutch - and that may
be the correct solution . I'll be loading up the bike and bringing it home
from Memphis in the next few weeks . I have a very few pieces here because I
haven't had storage space . That is about to change , the time has come to
get this machine back on the road .

--
Snag

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 18:38:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two
turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

Too bad you have to shut off the power/remove the cord/disassemble
the
circuit to install those. Handy gadgets, tho.

That's hardly an unreasonable burden for someone who spent his career
building and repairing electronics. This is a semi-permanent
installation until I need them elsewhere. I had been using a Fluke
clamp-on current probe extended upstairs from the breaker box with an
extension cord but it's a tripping hazard, and the Fluke is too
expensive to suggest buying new.

-jsw

On Sun, 4 Jan 2015 07:11:22 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 18:38:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two
turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

Too bad you have to shut off the power/remove the cord/disassemble
the
circuit to install those. Handy gadgets, tho.

That's hardly an unreasonable burden for someone who spent his career
building and repairing electronics.

True. g But in some cases, it's an extreme hassle to install one
where you want it. I looked into current sensing to automate my dust
collection system for the shop and it looked like more hassle than it
was worth.


This is a semi-permanent
installation until I need them elsewhere. I had been using a Fluke
clamp-on current probe extended upstairs from the breaker box with an
extension cord but it's a tripping hazard, and the Fluke is too
expensive to suggest buying new.

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. I'll be
investing a full $11.99 at HF for a clamp-on current probe DVM later
this week.

Oh, my new 12w LEDs are very, very bright but only take 5w of current.
Hmm... Typical Chiwanese power/Sears horsepower stats, wot? The
funny thing is that the 4-LED 12-watters take less power than the
older 3-LED 9w (7w draw) spots I bought a couple years ago, and
they're considerably brighter. Alas, when I went out to get the
Sunday paper last night (he delivers between 9:30 and 10pm), I noticed
that my new, bright spots were strobing once per second. sigh I
wonder if the trick I used for the CFLs will work he Addition of a
220kohm resistor across the mains.

--
All I want is a warm bed,
a kind word, and
U N L I M I T E D P O W E R !
--anon

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
....

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.

Just probes and the like generally are pretty cheap w/o the instrument
altho I've not bought Fluke-branded I've bought quite a few
Tektronix...you do have to be patient sometimes, though, so if it's an
immediate need that can't wait isn't always the option.

--

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:21:38 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.

Just probes and the like generally are pretty cheap w/o the instrument
altho I've not bought Fluke-branded I've bought quite a few
Tektronix...you do have to be patient sometimes, though, so if it's an
immediate need that can't wait isn't always the option.

Ayup. Got a lot of my Fluke on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.
Someday Ill get a solid state scope there as well, unless I can find
one at an auction.

Anybody passing this way..Ive got more scopes than I need.....

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 09:44:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:21:38 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.

Just probes and the like generally are pretty cheap w/o the instrument
altho I've not bought Fluke-branded I've bought quite a few
Tektronix...you do have to be patient sometimes, though, so if it's an
immediate need that can't wait isn't always the option.

Ayup. Got a lot of my Fluke on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, but so much of that stuff is abused so badly, it's worth only
those pennies. It too often takes luck to get a good one.


Someday Ill get a solid state scope there as well, unless I can find
one at an auction.

Anybody passing this way..Ive got more scopes than I need.....

I forgot to ask if you had the Tek 422 manual when I was there. The
intensity pot is flaky (open), but it will work in several spots. The
Tek was calling out to me "Calibrate me!" as I cleaned and put a new
pair of probes on 'er.

12w LED security lights:
I think the 100k resistors (didn't have 220k) across the input fixed
the strobing on the LEDs. They're out there on the wall again and not
flashing. Once it's fully dark out there, I'll see fer sher. The
lamps unscrew and I could run the resistor right across the PCB at the
leads to the base.

--
All I want is a warm bed,
a kind word, and
U N L I M I T E D P O W E R !
--anon

Larry Jaques wrote:

I forgot to ask if you had the Tek 422 manual when I was there. The
intensity pot is flaky (open), but it will work in several spots. The
Tek was calling out to me "Calibrate me!" as I cleaned and put a new
pair of probes on 'er.


http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/422 has the manual for free.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 22:12:58 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I forgot to ask if you had the Tek 422 manual when I was there. The
intensity pot is flaky (open), but it will work in several spots. The
Tek was calling out to me "Calibrate me!" as I cleaned and put a new
pair of probes on 'er.


http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/422 has the manual for free.

Danke mucho, Mikey. DLing now!

--
I’ve long been passionate about protecting and expanding democracy,
which is really the only viable mechanism to preserve liberty and
distribute power from kings to the rest of us.
--George Farah

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 15:22:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 09:44:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:21:38 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.

Just probes and the like generally are pretty cheap w/o the instrument
altho I've not bought Fluke-branded I've bought quite a few
Tektronix...you do have to be patient sometimes, though, so if it's an
immediate need that can't wait isn't always the option.

Ayup. Got a lot of my Fluke on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, but so much of that stuff is abused so badly, it's worth only
those pennies. It too often takes luck to get a good one.

Actually..with good quality DVMs..if it looks reasonably good..it
probably isnt abused.
As you know/seen..Ive got a fair bit of electronic test
equipment...and the Fluke stuff I have mostly came from either
auctions or Ebay..and Ive never lost a meter to failure. I did drive
over one once...sigh.

Now the Simpson 260s...did I show you the drawer filled with them?
Most with the bakelite cases epoxied back together? I think the only
one I have that is close to pristine..is the nylon body one. 260-8P as
I recall..???

Someday Ill find one of the rolltop carrying cases and put one back on
the road. They are much better for the kinds of work I do than DVMs



Someday Ill get a solid state scope there as well, unless I can find
one at an auction.

Anybody passing this way..Ive got more scopes than I need.....

I forgot to ask if you had the Tek 422 manual when I was there. The
intensity pot is flaky (open), but it will work in several spots. The
Tek was calling out to me "Calibrate me!" as I cleaned and put a new
pair of probes on 'er.

http://elektrotanya.com/tektronix_42.../download.html

http://exodus.poly.edu/~kurt/mmm/tek-422.pdf

All that doc stuff is easily availble free on the net.

I gave you your choice of at least 4 other scopes...but no..you had
to have "that" one!! (Grin)

Open the critter up and spray the intensity pot with tuner cleaner.
Good first start.



12w LED security lights:
I think the 100k resistors (didn't have 220k) across the input fixed
the strobing on the LEDs. They're out there on the wall again and not
flashing. Once it's fully dark out there, I'll see fer sher. The
lamps unscrew and I could run the resistor right across the PCB at the
leads to the base.

Happy zapping!!

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 01/04/2015 5:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 09:44:04 -0800, Gunner
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:21:38 -0600, wrote:

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.
....

Ayup. Got a lot of my Fluke on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, but so much of that stuff is abused so badly, it's worth only
those pennies. It too often takes luck to get a good one.
....

I've never had an issue simply by using common sense in selecting
sellers from which to buy and looking...the Fluke clampon meter looks
pristine and was complete down to the little caps over the probe tips...

--

On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 05:49:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 15:22:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 09:44:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:21:38 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.

Just probes and the like generally are pretty cheap w/o the instrument
altho I've not bought Fluke-branded I've bought quite a few
Tektronix...you do have to be patient sometimes, though, so if it's an
immediate need that can't wait isn't always the option.

Ayup. Got a lot of my Fluke on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, but so much of that stuff is abused so badly, it's worth only
those pennies. It too often takes luck to get a good one.

Actually..with good quality DVMs..if it looks reasonably good..it
probably isnt abused.
As you know/seen..Ive got a fair bit of electronic test
equipment...and the Fluke stuff I have mostly came from either
auctions or Ebay..and Ive never lost a meter to failure. I did drive
over one once...sigh.

Ouch! That was a fluke. (sorry)


Now the Simpson 260s...did I show you the drawer filled with them?
Most with the bakelite cases epoxied back together? I think the only
one I have that is close to pristine..is the nylon body one. 260-8P as
I recall..???

I remember the old Simpsons from school. Solid analog bastids.

Someday Ill find one of the rolltop carrying cases and put one back on
the road. They are much better for the kinds of work I do than DVMs



Someday Ill get a solid state scope there as well, unless I can find
one at an auction.

Anybody passing this way..Ive got more scopes than I need.....

I forgot to ask if you had the Tek 422 manual when I was there. The
intensity pot is flaky (open), but it will work in several spots. The
Tek was calling out to me "Calibrate me!" as I cleaned and put a new
pair of probes on 'er.

http://elektrotanya.com/tektronix_42.../download.html

http://exodus.poly.edu/~kurt/mmm/tek-422.pdf

All that doc stuff is easily availble free on the net.

Got it from Mikey's link, but thanks. Much better than paying some
leech $60 for one. I applaud Ig and these folks for making so many
manuals available.


I gave you your choice of at least 4 other scopes...but no..you had
to have "that" one!! (Grin)

g Yeah, I guess it felt familiar for some reason.


Open the critter up and spray the intensity pot with tuner cleaner.
Good first start.

Yeah, I'll have to do that and see if I can refurb the batteries. Got
any tips there?

Oh, do you have the face cover, by any chance?


12w LED security lights:
I think the 100k resistors (didn't have 220k) across the input fixed
the strobing on the LEDs. They're out there on the wall again and not
flashing. Once it's fully dark out there, I'll see fer sher. The
lamps unscrew and I could run the resistor right across the PCB at the
leads to the base.

Happy zapping!!

It worked. No more strobing. It'll cost me about $0.06 a month,
though, at 1.2mA, unless the triac leakage which turns it on limits
that, which is fairly certain. I'll have to do that with the rest,
too, then test them in my dimmer circuit. It may be the only thing
which separates the two, dimmable from non-dimmable, at least in the
cheap Chiwanese lights. Who knows?

Still amazed at the 520lumen output from 6 watts. I LOVE LEDs!

--
I’ve long been passionate about protecting and expanding democracy,
which is really the only viable mechanism to preserve liberty and
distribute power from kings to the rest of us.
--George Farah

On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 06:15:25 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 05:49:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 15:22:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 09:44:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:21:38 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 01/04/2015 10:06 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Verily. Fluke is very proud of their (very good) stuff. ...

Keep watching eBay...it won't get to the HF pricing, but I've bought a
couple Fluke meters for _VERY_ reasonable prices...about 10c on the
dollar at the low end; about 25% retail/new for the more expensive/exotic.

Just probes and the like generally are pretty cheap w/o the instrument
altho I've not bought Fluke-branded I've bought quite a few
Tektronix...you do have to be patient sometimes, though, so if it's an
immediate need that can't wait isn't always the option.

Ayup. Got a lot of my Fluke on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, but so much of that stuff is abused so badly, it's worth only
those pennies. It too often takes luck to get a good one.

Actually..with good quality DVMs..if it looks reasonably good..it
probably isnt abused.
As you know/seen..Ive got a fair bit of electronic test
equipment...and the Fluke stuff I have mostly came from either
auctions or Ebay..and Ive never lost a meter to failure. I did drive
over one once...sigh.

Ouch! That was a fluke. (sorry)


Now the Simpson 260s...did I show you the drawer filled with them?
Most with the bakelite cases epoxied back together? I think the only
one I have that is close to pristine..is the nylon body one. 260-8P as
I recall..???

I remember the old Simpsons from school. Solid analog bastids.

Someday Ill find one of the rolltop carrying cases and put one back on
the road. They are much better for the kinds of work I do than DVMs



Someday Ill get a solid state scope there as well, unless I can find
one at an auction.

Anybody passing this way..Ive got more scopes than I need.....

I forgot to ask if you had the Tek 422 manual when I was there. The
intensity pot is flaky (open), but it will work in several spots. The
Tek was calling out to me "Calibrate me!" as I cleaned and put a new
pair of probes on 'er.

http://elektrotanya.com/tektronix_42.../download.html

http://exodus.poly.edu/~kurt/mmm/tek-422.pdf

All that doc stuff is easily availble free on the net.

Got it from Mikey's link, but thanks. Much better than paying some
leech $60 for one. I applaud Ig and these folks for making so many
manuals available.


I gave you your choice of at least 4 other scopes...but no..you had
to have "that" one!! (Grin)

g Yeah, I guess it felt familiar for some reason.


Open the critter up and spray the intensity pot with tuner cleaner.
Good first start.

Yeah, I'll have to do that and see if I can refurb the batteries. Got
any tips there?

Oh, do you have the face cover, by any chance?

Nope..not for that one. Many of the others..but not that. Ebay is
about your best bet. Some collectors will have some..expect to pay
$10-50 though from them. Ebay...shrug



12w LED security lights:
I think the 100k resistors (didn't have 220k) across the input fixed
the strobing on the LEDs. They're out there on the wall again and not
flashing. Once it's fully dark out there, I'll see fer sher. The
lamps unscrew and I could run the resistor right across the PCB at the
leads to the base.

Happy zapping!!

It worked. No more strobing. It'll cost me about $0.06 a month,
though, at 1.2mA, unless the triac leakage which turns it on limits
that, which is fairly certain. I'll have to do that with the rest,
too, then test them in my dimmer circuit. It may be the only thing
which separates the two, dimmable from non-dimmable, at least in the
cheap Chiwanese lights. Who knows?

Still amazed at the 520lumen output from 6 watts. I LOVE LEDs!

Im looking at some 30' coils on ebay and pondering doing the cabins of
the sailboats in 4' strips

Now which ones do I want? The 5020s?

I want red and white strips.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Larry Jaques wrote:

I LOVE LEDs!


You love 'Lie Emitting Democrats'? SHAME ON YOU! ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 00:32:10 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I LOVE LEDs!


You love 'Lie Emitting Democrats'? SHAME ON YOU! ;-)

Ain't what I said! Ain't, ain't, ain't!

I said
"I love Light Emitting Diodes" and I'll append to that "...when they
bring to light Lie Emitting Democrats (or LERs, for that matter."

--
I’ve long been passionate about protecting and expanding democracy,
which is really the only viable mechanism to preserve liberty and
distribute power from kings to the rest of us.
--George Farah

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 00:32:10 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I LOVE LEDs!


You love 'Lie Emitting Democrats'? SHAME ON YOU! ;-)

Ain't what I said! Ain't, ain't, ain't!

I said
"I love Light Emitting Diodes" and I'll append to that "...when they
bring to light Lie Emitting Democrats (or LERs, for that matter."


So, you do pay attention. Sometimes! ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 04:17:51 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 00:32:10 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I LOVE LEDs!


You love 'Lie Emitting Democrats'? SHAME ON YOU! ;-)

Ain't what I said! Ain't, ain't, ain't!

I said
"I love Light Emitting Diodes" and I'll append to that "...when they
bring to light Lie Emitting Democrats (or LERs, for that matter."


So, you do pay attention. Sometimes! ;-)

Keereckt. I just don't respond to every message you, um, aim at me.



Sadness: I came home after dark last night and one of my brand new
LEDs had already died. 2 days! Burntesting the rest now so I can
give the vendor feedback and product replacement request.

--
I’ve long been passionate about protecting and expanding democracy,
which is really the only viable mechanism to preserve liberty and
distribute power from kings to the rest of us.
--George Farah

On 1/3/2015 6:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.



So, the LED's show when the heaters are on. Why do you want to know
that? Just curious.

Bob

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
On 1/3/2015 6:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two
turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.



So, the LED's show when the heaters are on. Why do you want to know
that? Just curious.

Bob

The behavior of the thermostats isn't obvious. The bathroom one has a
shutoff near fully CCW that makes no sound, so I can't tell if it's
off or set low, or couldn't until this morning. It appears to have an
internal anticipator which causes the room temperature to slowly
stairstep up over an hour or so; at first it shuts off at 60, but an
hour later it's still cycling and the room is at 68.
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heati...nticipator.htm
Maybe the old idea of setting the thermostat to 80F to make a cold
house warm up faster had some merit?

I'm datalogging the current to other one and room temperature, with no
other heat source. So far it looks like a single ~700W radiator can
hold the house at 50F. Outside is at 3F now and dropping. Tomorrow
morning I should know if that radiator is an adequate automatic backup
to the wood stove and how much it costs to run. Last winter the
weather warmed before I completed the datalogging setup.
-jsw

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:55:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
On 1/3/2015 6:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two
turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

So, the LED's show when the heaters are on. Why do you want to know
that? Just curious.

Ever get that feeling? "I'm cold. Is that heater on and working?"


The behavior of the thermostats isn't obvious. The bathroom one has a
shutoff near fully CCW that makes no sound, so I can't tell if it's
off or set low, or couldn't until this morning. It appears to have an
internal anticipator which causes the room temperature to slowly
stairstep up over an hour or so; at first it shuts off at 60, but an
hour later it's still cycling and the room is at 68.
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heati...nticipator.htm
Maybe the old idea of setting the thermostat to 80F to make a cold
house warm up faster had some merit?

With the new electronic tstats, yes. Anticipation circuits work on
both the up and downstroke of temp now, too. '80s heaters had to rely
on mechanics, via the bimetal strips. Electronic tstats can watch the
temperature curve and adjust logically. I love it! EXCEPT in the
case of quick warming of a cold house after a vacation, etc.

With the new HVAC units being steeped in Green, it takes hours for my
house to come down to temp in the summer if I've left the tstat off to
enjoy some fresh air via open-door breezes. Saving energy costs time.


I'm datalogging the current to other one and room temperature, with no
other heat source. So far it looks like a single ~700W radiator can
hold the house at 50F. Outside is at 3F now and dropping. Tomorrow
morning I should know if that radiator is an adequate automatic backup
to the wood stove and how much it costs to run. Last winter the
weather warmed before I completed the datalogging setup.

Heat stratification is the bane to my existence. I hated the
fireplace in my old house and hated the wall heat in the new house, so
I installed a Carrier Infinity here, complete with my first A/C unit!

That said, what kind of airflow mechanism do you have to distribute
that room's hot air to the house? Ditto for the woodstove. I've
tried single-point heat and have always found it to suck, bigtime.
Something I've never tried is to distribute that heat to other rooms
in the house via a ductwork in the attic or crawlspace, just like the
real forced-air units I love. A couple or 3 reversible muffin fans
would do that with insulated 4" ducting for not too much cost. Suck
it directly off the ceiling in the heated room and blow it elsewhere
for a whole-house flow, just like a -real- HVAC system. As long
as there's a flow of air, I can take warmer temps in the house in the
summer.

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:55:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
On 1/3/2015 6:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two
turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

So, the LED's show when the heaters are on. Why do you want to
know
that? Just curious.

Ever get that feeling? "I'm cold. Is that heater on and working?"


The behavior of the thermostats isn't obvious. The bathroom one has
a
shutoff near fully CCW that makes no sound, so I can't tell if it's
off or set low, or couldn't until this morning. It appears to have
an
internal anticipator which causes the room temperature to slowly
stairstep up over an hour or so; at first it shuts off at 60, but an
hour later it's still cycling and the room is at 68.
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heati...nticipator.htm
Maybe the old idea of setting the thermostat to 80F to make a cold
house warm up faster had some merit?

With the new electronic tstats, yes. Anticipation circuits work on
both the up and downstroke of temp now, too. '80s heaters had to
rely
on mechanics, via the bimetal strips. Electronic tstats can watch
the
temperature curve and adjust logically. I love it! EXCEPT in the
case of quick warming of a cold house after a vacation, etc.

With the new HVAC units being steeped in Green, it takes hours for
my
house to come down to temp in the summer if I've left the tstat off
to
enjoy some fresh air via open-door breezes. Saving energy costs
time.

I haven't found much of a selection of line-switching electric heat
thermostats, and the two I have that can be set below 50F aren't well
calibrated so I've been measuring and marking their actual settings on
them. I don't want them turning on unnoticed (thus the LEDs) from the
normal wide swing of wood heat. The one I'm testing increases my daily
electricity consumption from 4 KWH to 20 KWH.
2.8A * 240V * 24 Hrs = 16.1 KWH

I'm datalogging the current to other one and room temperature, with
no
other heat source. So far it looks like a single ~700W radiator can
hold the house at 50F. Outside is at 3F now and dropping. Tomorrow
morning I should know if that radiator is an adequate automatic
backup
to the wood stove and how much it costs to run. Last winter the
weather warmed before I completed the datalogging setup.

Heat stratification is the bane to my existence. I hated the
fireplace in my old house and hated the wall heat in the new house,
so
I installed a Carrier Infinity here, complete with my first A/C
unit!

That said, what kind of airflow mechanism do you have to distribute
that room's hot air to the house? Ditto for the woodstove. I've
tried single-point heat and have always found it to suck, bigtime.
Something I've never tried is to distribute that heat to other rooms
in the house via a ductwork in the attic or crawlspace, just like
the
real forced-air units I love. A couple or 3 reversible muffin fans
would do that with insulated 4" ducting for not too much cost. Suck
it directly off the ceiling in the heated room and blow it elsewhere
for a whole-house flow, just like a -real- HVAC system. As long
as there's a flow of air, I can take warmer temps in the house in
the
summer.

My neighbors with similar houses and basement stoves need circulating
fans to keep happy, but I've added enough extra north wall, ceiling,
door and window insulation that the stratification isn't bad with only
natural circulation up the stairwell. My basement is normally about
10F warmer, theirs was closer to 20F without the fans.

Right now an infrared thermometer shows about 4 degrees difference
between the top and bottom of interior door frames. A fine wire
thermocouple reads a 6 degree spread between the ceiling and desktop
air, with the stove running hotter than usual to turn off the
thermostat SOON.

I bypassed the anticipator heater when I installed the current coil so
it needs the full on/off differential to develop the energy to snap
off. I think the anticipator would compensate for much of the
differential.

-jsw

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 13:42:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:55:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
On 1/3/2015 6:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
...
Here's some other fun stuff from China:
...

My package today:
http://www.amazon.com/CR-Magnetics-R.../dp/B006K3O1MY

I bought the amber ones, to put on heater thermostats. These two
turn
on dimly at 0.4~ 0.5A AC.

So, the LED's show when the heaters are on. Why do you want to
know
that? Just curious.

Ever get that feeling? "I'm cold. Is that heater on and working?"


The behavior of the thermostats isn't obvious. The bathroom one has
a
shutoff near fully CCW that makes no sound, so I can't tell if it's
off or set low, or couldn't until this morning. It appears to have
an
internal anticipator which causes the room temperature to slowly
stairstep up over an hour or so; at first it shuts off at 60, but an
hour later it's still cycling and the room is at 68.
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heati...nticipator.htm
Maybe the old idea of setting the thermostat to 80F to make a cold
house warm up faster had some merit?

With the new electronic tstats, yes. Anticipation circuits work on
both the up and downstroke of temp now, too. '80s heaters had to
rely
on mechanics, via the bimetal strips. Electronic tstats can watch
the
temperature curve and adjust logically. I love it! EXCEPT in the
case of quick warming of a cold house after a vacation, etc.

With the new HVAC units being steeped in Green, it takes hours for
my
house to come down to temp in the summer if I've left the tstat off
to
enjoy some fresh air via open-door breezes. Saving energy costs
time.

I haven't found much of a selection of line-switching electric heat
thermostats, and the two I have that can be set below 50F aren't well
calibrated so I've been measuring and marking their actual settings on
them. I don't want them turning on unnoticed (thus the LEDs) from the
normal wide swing of wood heat. The one I'm testing increases my daily
electricity consumption from 4 KWH to 20 KWH.
2.8A * 240V * 24 Hrs = 16.1 KWH

That's quite a substantial increase! I'm using 11kwh/day now, which
means I might need more than the 45w HF panels to supply it.

Of course, that's just a guess.


I'm datalogging the current to other one and room temperature, with
no
other heat source. So far it looks like a single ~700W radiator can
hold the house at 50F. Outside is at 3F now and dropping. Tomorrow
morning I should know if that radiator is an adequate automatic
backup
to the wood stove and how much it costs to run. Last winter the
weather warmed before I completed the datalogging setup.

Heat stratification is the bane to my existence. I hated the
fireplace in my old house and hated the wall heat in the new house,
so
I installed a Carrier Infinity here, complete with my first A/C
unit!

That said, what kind of airflow mechanism do you have to distribute
that room's hot air to the house? Ditto for the woodstove. I've
tried single-point heat and have always found it to suck, bigtime.
Something I've never tried is to distribute that heat to other rooms
in the house via a ductwork in the attic or crawlspace, just like
the
real forced-air units I love. A couple or 3 reversible muffin fans
would do that with insulated 4" ducting for not too much cost. Suck
it directly off the ceiling in the heated room and blow it elsewhere
for a whole-house flow, just like a -real- HVAC system. As long
as there's a flow of air, I can take warmer temps in the house in
the
summer.

My neighbors with similar houses and basement stoves need circulating
fans to keep happy, but I've added enough extra north wall, ceiling,
door and window insulation that the stratification isn't bad with only
natural circulation up the stairwell. My basement is normally about
10F warmer, theirs was closer to 20F without the fans.

I don't see how a bit of insulation would destratify stagnant hot air.
In fact, the lack of heat loss would tend to stratify it more,
reducing the natural circulation of the air being cooled due to the
lack of insulation. I've missed your point here.


Right now an infrared thermometer shows about 4 degrees difference
between the top and bottom of interior door frames. A fine wire
thermocouple reads a 6 degree spread between the ceiling and desktop
air, with the stove running hotter than usual to turn off the
thermostat SOON.

You must have a bit of circulation in your house to prevent much
strat.


I bypassed the anticipator heater when I installed the current coil so
it needs the full on/off differential to develop the energy to snap
off. I think the anticipator would compensate for much of the
differential.

Are you saying that you think the anticipator would de-stratify your
air better? I can't see how.

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 13:42:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

.....................
My neighbors with similar houses and basement stoves need
circulating
fans to keep happy, but I've added enough extra north wall, ceiling,
door and window insulation that the stratification isn't bad with
only
natural circulation up the stairwell. My basement is normally about
10F warmer, theirs was closer to 20F without the fans.

I don't see how a bit of insulation would destratify stagnant hot
air.
In fact, the lack of heat loss would tend to stratify it more,
reducing the natural circulation of the air being cooled due to the
lack of insulation. I've missed your point here.


Right now an infrared thermometer shows about 4 degrees difference
between the top and bottom of interior door frames. A fine wire
thermocouple reads a 6 degree spread between the ceiling and desktop
air, with the stove running hotter than usual to turn off the
thermostat SOON.

You must have a bit of circulation in your house to prevent much
strat.

Instead of theorizing you can make the air flow visible by ballasting
a Mylar helium balloon to neutral buoyancy and watching where it
travels, being careful to keep it off exposed hot bulbs and the wood
stove. Added insulation and sealing leaks reduces the "stratification"
by reducing the amount of cooled air flowing down the outside walls
and across the floor.

Latex balloons lose helium rapidly enough that you have to ballast
them with paper dampened with water or rubbing alcohol to keep the
buoyancy close to neutral for a useful length of time.

I bypassed the anticipator heater when I installed the current coil
so
it needs the full on/off differential to develop the energy to snap
off. I think the anticipator would compensate for much of the
differential.

Are you saying that you think the anticipator would de-stratify your
air better? I can't see how.

The switch in a line voltage thermostat has to snap open rapidly and
far enough to break the arc, and the compressed spring energy this
requires comes from a differential of several degrees between the
turn-on and turn-off points.

Say the difference is 5 degrees. If the anticipator heats the
thermostat by 4 degrees while the contacts are closed, the air
temperature has to rise by only 1 degree to shut off the heat.

-jsw

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 23:03:41 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 13:42:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

....................
My neighbors with similar houses and basement stoves need
circulating
fans to keep happy, but I've added enough extra north wall, ceiling,
door and window insulation that the stratification isn't bad with
only
natural circulation up the stairwell. My basement is normally about
10F warmer, theirs was closer to 20F without the fans.

I don't see how a bit of insulation would destratify stagnant hot
air.
In fact, the lack of heat loss would tend to stratify it more,
reducing the natural circulation of the air being cooled due to the
lack of insulation. I've missed your point here.


Right now an infrared thermometer shows about 4 degrees difference
between the top and bottom of interior door frames. A fine wire
thermocouple reads a 6 degree spread between the ceiling and desktop
air, with the stove running hotter than usual to turn off the
thermostat SOON.

You must have a bit of circulation in your house to prevent much
strat.

Instead of theorizing you can make the air flow visible by ballasting
a Mylar helium balloon to neutral buoyancy and watching where it
travels, being careful to keep it off exposed hot bulbs and the wood
stove. Added insulation and sealing leaks reduces the "stratification"
by reducing the amount of cooled air flowing down the outside walls
and across the floor.

Doesn't the flow of cooler air to the bottom create flow in the room,
decreasing stratification? Or is it too slow for that? I can feel
cold drafts from windows if I stand barefooted in front of the window.
Maybe that's not enough to swirl room air.


Latex balloons lose helium rapidly enough that you have to ballast
them with paper dampened with water or rubbing alcohol to keep the
buoyancy close to neutral for a useful length of time.

OK.


I bypassed the anticipator heater when I installed the current coil
so
it needs the full on/off differential to develop the energy to snap
off. I think the anticipator would compensate for much of the
differential.

Are you saying that you think the anticipator would de-stratify your
air better? I can't see how.

The switch in a line voltage thermostat has to snap open rapidly and
far enough to break the arc, and the compressed spring energy this
requires comes from a differential of several degrees between the
turn-on and turn-off points.

Say the difference is 5 degrees. If the anticipator heats the
thermostat by 4 degrees while the contacts are closed, the air
temperature has to rise by only 1 degree to shut off the heat.

I 'got' the mechanical point. I was asking about the strat. I had
misread what you were referring to.

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 23:03:41 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


Instead of theorizing you can make the air flow visible by
ballasting
a Mylar helium balloon to neutral buoyancy and watching where it
travels, being careful to keep it off exposed hot bulbs and the wood
stove. Added insulation and sealing leaks reduces the
"stratification"
by reducing the amount of cooled air flowing down the outside walls
and across the floor.

Doesn't the flow of cooler air to the bottom create flow in the
room,
decreasing stratification? Or is it too slow for that? I can feel
cold drafts from windows if I stand barefooted in front of the
window.
Maybe that's not enough to swirl room air.

If you don't believe me I've told you how to find out for yourself.

-jsw