I'm looking for a new kitchen faucet, to replace the mistake I bought a
year ago, that now leaks from a pinhole in the spout (which appears to
be die metal).


Requirements:

Single lever, like original Delta.

All water-contact components either brass or stainless steel (excluding
seals). This includes the spout.

Have a separate side sprayer. (I have a 4-hole stainless steel sink.)

Polished chrome finish.

Be large enough for the sink, but not huge (like those things used for
granite counters).


What I've found so far:

American Standard "Reliance" model 4205.001.002.

Delta model 175-DST.

Moen Commercial model 8707 (can be had with 9" or 12" spout, but 12"
seems too long).

Questions:

What experience do people have with these and/or competing faucets?

What similar products not listed are there?


Joe Gwinn

On 12/12/2014 6:09 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
I'm looking for a new kitchen faucet, to replace the mistake I bought a
year ago, that now leaks from a pinhole in the spout (which appears to
be die metal).


Requirements:

Single lever, like original Delta.

All water-contact components either brass or stainless steel (excluding
seals). This includes the spout.

Have a separate side sprayer. (I have a 4-hole stainless steel sink.)

Polished chrome finish.

Be large enough for the sink, but not huge (like those things used for
granite counters).


What I've found so far:

American Standard "Reliance" model 4205.001.002.

Delta model 175-DST.

Moen Commercial model 8707 (can be had with 9" or 12" spout, but 12"
seems too long).

Questions:

What experience do people have with these and/or competing faucets?

What similar products not listed are there?


Joe Gwinn



I'm partial to Moen and their lifetime guarantee, and they are about two
miles up the street.

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:09:23 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

I'm looking for a new kitchen faucet, to replace the mistake I bought a
year ago, that now leaks from a pinhole in the spout (which appears to
be die metal).


Requirements:

Single lever, like original Delta.

All water-contact components either brass or stainless steel (excluding
seals). This includes the spout.

I hear that. The new tin spouts are real dogs. If they don't break
when you hang a plastic bag on them, they rust out.


Have a separate side sprayer. (I have a 4-hole stainless steel sink.)

Polished chrome finish.

I switched to brushed stainless and am happier. Less polishing.

Wife prefers chrome.


Be large enough for the sink, but not huge (like those things used for
granite counters).

What I've found so far:

American Standard "Reliant" model 4205.001.002.

Delta model 175-DST.

Moen Commercial model 8707 (can be had with 9" or 12" spout, but 12"
seems too long).

My Pfister is 10" and isn't quite large enough for my double 15x15x8
brushed SS sink. I wish it were 12". Your mileage may vary.

I did find such a faucet, the Moen Commercial 8707, as mentioned above,
but that's the only one I've found. On my sink, 12" would be very
awkward, but 9" is just about perfect.


Questions:

What experience do people have with these and/or competing faucets?

A bit. What depth is your sink, how tall are the bottles and pans
that you fill, etc.? Height and reach matter.

My kitchen sink has a single well, 21" by 16" by 8".


What similar products not listed are there?

A few. I haven't looked at any recently, other than the little
import from Matco. It had a tin deck plate, but had a decent little
brass spout. Not bad for $39. I think it was this one, a small model
for an apartment sink. http://tinyurl.com/p3tt87y (pricey here)

When I replace my current faucet, it will be with one of the tall farm
style hooks, like this: http://tinyurl.com/o9gbw9y but without a
sprayer. And for better performance on my well pump, I modify the
aerators for better flow. I don't waste water, so I let it flow
quickly.

At about 18" high, this would look silly in my kitchen. Wife was very
definite about this.

The other problem with such faucets is the leverage on the sheet-metal
sink deck, which will bend, making the faucet feel floppy. These are
really designed to work with a granite or solid-surface countertop.

If one uses such a faucet on a stainless steel sink deck, one must
provide some kind of stiffener.

Also be aware that most sheet-metal sinks have 1.25" diameter holes,
while many faucets intended for countertop mount require 1.5" (to
accommodate the larger feed tubes needed to have adequate water flow).
The Miseno farm style hook faucet mentioned above does seem to
accommodate a 1.25" hole, so check if the water flow is adequate. The
goal is 2.2 gallons per minute.


Most sprayers made today are vacuum-deposited chrome covered plastic
and truly suck. Try to find a heavy-duty metal model for longer life
and better performance, or an old style bakelite sprayer. They last.
I'm ready to replace my sprayer with a soap dispenser, as I seldom use
the leaky plastic POS.

Well, I've had reasonable luck with those plastic sprayers. What
usually kills them is lime accumulation, so I have to replace them
every few years. A metal sprayer would be heavy, and wound still lime
up.

Currently, the American Standard "Reliant" model 4205.001.002 is in the
lead. One think I like is that it has the traditional hot and cold
feeds at the outside of the base plate. This is how the current faucet
is set up, simplifying installation. And, the presence of these brass
tails more or less ensures that the base is all brass, and strong, thus
stiffening the attachment to the sheet-metal sink deck.

Some faucets have these two brass tails, but have center feed, so they
have the stiffeners, but feed pipes would need rearrangement.

Joe Gwinn

In article , Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/12/2014 6:09 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
I'm looking for a new kitchen faucet, to replace the mistake I bought a
year ago, that now leaks from a pinhole in the spout (which appears to
be die metal).


Requirements:

Single lever, like original Delta.

All water-contact components either brass or stainless steel (excluding
seals). This includes the spout.

Have a separate side sprayer. (I have a 4-hole stainless steel sink.)

Polished chrome finish.

Be large enough for the sink, but not huge (like those things used for
granite counters).


What I've found so far:

American Standard "Reliance" model 4205.001.002.

Delta model 175-DST.

Moen Commercial model 8707 (can be had with 9" or 12" spout, but 12"
seems too long).

Questions:

What experience do people have with these and/or competing faucets?

What similar products not listed are there?


Joe Gwinn



I'm partial to Moen and their lifetime guarantee, and they are about two
miles up the street.

Moen is my second choice. Two miles helps a lot, but no major faucet
manufacturer is close to me (in the Boston area).

All the major producers have a lifetime guarantee for residential use,
limited to five years for commercial use.

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 07:22:09 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/12/2014 6:09 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
I'm looking for a new kitchen faucet, to replace the mistake I bought a
year ago, that now leaks from a pinhole in the spout (which appears to
be die metal).


Requirements:

Single lever, like original Delta.

All water-contact components either brass or stainless steel (excluding
seals). This includes the spout.

Have a separate side sprayer. (I have a 4-hole stainless steel sink.)

Polished chrome finish.

Be large enough for the sink, but not huge (like those things used for
granite counters).


What I've found so far:

American Standard "Reliance" model 4205.001.002.

Delta model 175-DST.

Moen Commercial model 8707 (can be had with 9" or 12" spout, but 12"
seems too long).

Questions:

What experience do people have with these and/or competing faucets?

What similar products not listed are there?


Joe Gwinn



I'm partial to Moen and their lifetime guarantee, and they are about two
miles up the street.

Indeed. Good stuff. What I replaced the stuff in my kitchen with 10
yrs ago

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:07:37 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:09:23 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

I'm looking for a new kitchen faucet, to replace the mistake I bought a
year ago, that now leaks from a pinhole in the spout (which appears to
be die metal).


Requirements:

Single lever, like original Delta.

All water-contact components either brass or stainless steel (excluding
seals). This includes the spout.

I hear that. The new tin spouts are real dogs. If they don't break
when you hang a plastic bag on them, they rust out.


Have a separate side sprayer. (I have a 4-hole stainless steel sink.)

Polished chrome finish.

I switched to brushed stainless and am happier. Less polishing.

Wife prefers chrome.


Be large enough for the sink, but not huge (like those things used for
granite counters).

What I've found so far:

American Standard "Reliant" model 4205.001.002.

Delta model 175-DST.

Moen Commercial model 8707 (can be had with 9" or 12" spout, but 12"
seems too long).

My Pfister is 10" and isn't quite large enough for my double 15x15x8
brushed SS sink. I wish it were 12". Your mileage may vary.

I did find such a faucet, the Moen Commercial 8707, as mentioned above,
but that's the only one I've found. On my sink, 12" would be very
awkward, but 9" is just about perfect.

Whatever works!


My kitchen sink has a single well, 21" by 16" by 8".

How about setback? Mine's 3", so a 9" faucet would barely stick out
half a foot. The curved bottom keeps half/1 gallon bottles from
nesting well, so I need more reach.

Setback is 2.5". The 9" spout works well.


At about 18" high, this would look silly in my kitchen. Wife was very
definite about this.

Hence my "YMMV".


The other problem with such faucets is the leverage on the sheet-metal
sink deck, which will bend, making the faucet feel floppy. These are
really designed to work with a granite or solid-surface countertop.

If one uses such a faucet on a stainless steel sink deck, one must
provide some kind of stiffener.

Perhaps.

I've seen complaints in faucet reviews about this effect.


Also be aware that most sheet-metal sinks have 1.25" diameter holes,
while many faucets intended for countertop mount require 1.5" (to

Yeah, they're always changing -something- to make selection harder.
sigh


accommodate the larger feed tubes needed to have adequate water flow).
The Miseno farm style hook faucet mentioned above does seem to
accommodate a 1.25" hole, so check if the water flow is adequate. The
goal is 2.2 gallons per minute.

No, the goal is 6gpm. 1.5-2.2 just isn't enough to get dishwater
quickly.

Hmm. I was not looking, but I have not found any ordinary kitchen
faucet with anything like 6 gpm flow. One would think that this would
be hard to control, hard to keep from soaking the entire kitchen,
including the ceiling. Think garden hose.

Maybe faucets intended for commercial kitchens.

If the issue is quickly filling containers, maybe a better approach
would be one of those wall-mount jointed pot-filling faucets.


Most sprayers made today are vacuum-deposited chrome covered plastic
and truly suck. Try to find a heavy-duty metal model for longer life
and better performance, or an old style bakelite sprayer. They last.
I'm ready to replace my sprayer with a soap dispenser, as I seldom use
the leaky plastic POS.

Well, I've had reasonable luck with those plastic sprayers. What
usually kills them is lime accumulation, so I have to replace them
every few years. A metal sprayer would be heavy, and wound still lime
up.

The newer, cheaparse, super-lightweight plastic sprayers are sheer
crap, though.

Yep.


Currently, the American Standard "Reliant" model 4205.001.002 is in the
lead. One think I like is that it has the traditional hot and cold
feeds at the outside of the base plate. This is how the current faucet

I'm sold on single handle simplicity, and have been for decades now.


is set up, simplifying installation. And, the presence of these brass
tails more or less ensures that the base is all brass, and strong, thus
stiffening the attachment to the sheet-metal sink deck.

Some faucets have these two brass tails, but have center feed, so they
have the stiffeners, but feed pipes would need rearrangement.

Yeah, and watch the connections. Some have newfangled push-ons with
plastic clips which don't seat as well as they should.

I have no direct experience, but I was suspicious of those plastic
clips as well. Let someone else gain experience here. It's real
expensive to have a clip blow off while you are away, so you return to
a soaked house. Good luck suing the faucet company - they will claim
installer error, and they have more lawyers than any civilian.

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:53:27 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

How about setback? Mine's 3", so a 9" faucet would barely stick out
half a foot. The curved bottom keeps half/1 gallon bottles from
nesting well, so I need more reach.

Setback is 2.5". The 9" spout works well.

Your sink must have smaller radiused sides.


No, the goal is 6gpm. 1.5-2.2 just isn't enough to get dishwater
quickly.

Hmm. I was not looking, but I have not found any ordinary kitchen
faucet with anything like 6 gpm flow. One would think that this would

That was just a number I threw out there. I like at _least_ double
the meager eco limit, please. I like to get my work done in a hurry
so I can go back to living my Type B lifestyle.


be hard to control, hard to keep from soaking the entire kitchen,
including the ceiling. Think garden hose.

Nah, garden hose is more like 10gpm. But overspray is probable with
good flow.


Yeah, and watch the connections. Some have newfangled push-ons with
plastic clips which don't seat as well as they should.

I have no direct experience, but I was suspicious of those plastic
clips as well. Let someone else gain experience here.

My thoughts exactly.


It's real
expensive to have a clip blow off while you are away, so you return to
a soaked house. Good luck suing the faucet company - they will claim
installer error, and they have more lawyers than any civilian.

Ain't that the truth.

--
Obstacles are those frightful things you
see when you take your eyes off your goal.
--Henry Ford

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:53:27 -0500, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

How about setback? Mine's 3", so a 9" faucet would barely stick out
half a foot. The curved bottom keeps half/1 gallon bottles from
nesting well, so I need more reach.

Setback is 2.5". The 9" spout works well.

Your sink must have smaller radiused sides.

Don't know, but running into the radiused sides has not been a problem,
even with the current 8.5" spout. The replacement faucet spout is
about an inch longer.


No, the goal is 6gpm. 1.5-2.2 just isn't enough to get dishwater
quickly.

Hmm. I was not looking, but I have not found any ordinary kitchen
faucet with anything like 6 gpm flow. One would think that this would

That was just a number I threw out there. I like at _least_ double
the meager eco limit, please. I like to get my work done in a hurry
so I can go back to living my Type B lifestyle.

The current faucet is rated for 1.8 gpm. The new one will be rated for
2.2 gpm, 22% more.

The eco limit appears to be 1.5 gpm, but that's a different part number
(the difference may be in the aerator). Perhaps it's required in
California.


be hard to control, hard to keep from soaking the entire kitchen,
including the ceiling. Think garden hose.

Nah, garden hose is more like 10gpm. But overspray is probable with
good flow.

I put too much faucet on one hemispherical bathroom washbasin. If one
isn't cautious, one gets an unexpected face wash. It's easy to open
those quarter-turn ceramic-disk valves all the way, in one fluid
motion.


Joe Gwinn

On 12/13/2014 11:10 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Moen is my second choice. Two miles helps a lot, but no major faucet
manufacturer is close to me (in the Boston area).

All the major producers have a lifetime guarantee for residential use,
limited to five years for commercial use.

Joe Gwinn


I did not know that. When we renovated the condo 6 years ago we used a
mix of Moen and Delta. No problems with any yet except the soap pump in
the kitchen sink needs lube every few months. Moen only has their
offices here, I don't know where they have parts. I have always just
bought parts for Moan rather than get them under warranty and it's
always the cartridge.

On 12/13/2014 12:16 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:



I'm partial to Moen and their lifetime guarantee, and they are about two
miles up the street.

Indeed. Good stuff. What I replaced the stuff in my kitchen with 10
yrs ago

Gunner

When they do act up it's just a matter of replacing the cartridge in 5
minutes.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 14:47:08 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/13/2014 12:16 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:



I'm partial to Moen and their lifetime guarantee, and they are about two
miles up the street.

Indeed. Good stuff. What I replaced the stuff in my kitchen with 10
yrs ago

Gunner

When they do act up it's just a matter of replacing the cartridge in 5
minutes.

Very good to know! Thanks!

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke