On 10/19/2014 3:11 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I was working in a shop earlier in the week that cut a lot of
"sheet metal". They have a Cincinatti lazer (10,000 watts) that
travels at 1500 IPM..thats 125 feet a minute..which doesnt seem all
that fast until you realize that they are cutting on 4x8 and 5x8
sheets of 1/2" plate (will cut 1" thick +)..and the machine is big
enough to lay (2) of those plates side by side on the table....5x16
feet..and the lazer is screaming along at 125 feet a minute

It has guarding all around the table about 4' tall with lazer
perimeter sensors that stops everything RIGHT NOW if anything gets
inside the cage, They were complaining that moths would shut the
system down on morning shift.......

Is a lazer anything like a LASER?

The LASER Shop, where I work, has 3 Mazak LASERs. 2 have old controls
with only a serial DB25 interface for loading cutting programs. The
third is basically the same iron, but the control is Linux based, with
USB ports, a CAT5 port for network cable and an assortment of other
interfaces. We load programs to it over a WIFI adapter.

All three machines can run the same programs.

David

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

Is a lazer anything like a LASER?

Yep... light amplification by ZINGING electrons randomly

Lloyd

On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 22:17:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 20:20:42 -0500, Ignoramus11869
wrote:

On 2014-10-19, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:15:54 -0500, Ignoramus11869
wrote:

These Spanish controls use special Spanish G-codes: G-uno, G-dos,
G-tres etc

And the special homing code, G-whiz.



To home on the specific spot G-spot.

G-zus, how'd we ever get HERE?

We G-roped our way ...

For a light cut, use the G-fondle code.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:18:12 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Carl Ijames" fired this volley in
:

125 feet per minute is 85 miles per hour,

really? You want to run those figures again? G

A skosh over a couple feet per second, equalling 1.42mph, Carl.
It just _looks_ like 85mph when you see it cutting that thick plate.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:18:12 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Carl Ijames" fired this volley in
:

125 feet per minute is 85 miles per hour,

really? You want to run those figures again? G

A skosh over a couple feet per second, equalling 1.42mph, Carl.
It just _looks_ like 85mph when you see it cutting that thick plate.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

"Larry Jaques"
wrote in message
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:18:12 -0500, "Lloyd E.
Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Carl Ijames"
fired this volley in
:

125 feet per minute is 85 miles per hour,

really? You want to run those figures again?
G

A skosh over a couple feet per second, equalling
1.42mph, Carl.
It just _looks_ like 85mph when you see it
cutting that thick plate.

Carl just absentmindlessly multiplied by 60 twice
doing the
calc. He was tired... yawn...time to knap..

"Phil Kangas" fired this volley in news:m21k6q
:

yawn...time to knap..

If you ain't bleedin', you ain't knappin'!

LLoyd

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 17:16:10 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Yes and?

Gunner


Gunner, if you'd read the prior responses closely, you'll notice one
responder referred to them as "lathes", even after seeing "vertical
machining center" plastered all over them.

LLoyd

I didnt miss it.

Simply shook my head and ignored it.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Karl Townsend wrote:

What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?

Speeds and feeds most likely. The new stuff is scary fast. Also more and
more 5axis to reduce setups.

Right now,"The Kid" is doing nothing but setting up new 5axis machines
and programming. With this and other optimizing things, they are
reducing time to make a part by a factor of five.

If anyone is interested, the limiting factor is finding enough highly
trained help to get the new stuff running right.

The reason they have that limiting factor is the fact that they are
looking for "highly trained" rather than "highly skilled", rather the
same issue throughout industry these days.

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:15:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Phil Kangas" fired this volley in news:m21k6q
:

yawn...time to knap..

If you ain't bleedin', you ain't knappin'!

Wear gloves next time, silly beastie.
Thin kid or deer work well. Y'know, TIG gloves.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

Well, they used one or two beam steering mirrors to get the beam to the
focusing lens, and back then they already had the table system on the turret
punch presses that they could just use, and they probably didn't think they
could keep a mirror system in alignment over that large a range of motion,
plus it would take at least one more mirror so even more losses and
alignment issues. Nowadays they use fiber bundles to handle the alignment
issue.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On 2014-10-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...

Possibly the laser tube (glass or quartz for CO2, I believe) was
too fragile to accept the acceleration. It is possible to design more
durable tubes, but they probably didn't back then. :-) I'm not sure what
the window material would have to be for CO2 -- perhaps something like
Irtran -- I forget what wavelengths it worked well at. I do remember
lenses for far infrared imagers being made from either silicon or
germanium crystals.

Let's see -- Nd/Yag lasers were about 1.06 uM (1064 nm) (very near to
red), and I think that CO2 was closer to 10.6 uM

Also -- depending on the size (mass) of the head, it might be
easier to move the workpiece. :-)

One possibility would be prisms or first-surface reflectors to
take a horizontal light beam parallel to a support beam, and move the
reflector to turn the beam down from the horizontal to impact the
workpiece. (And, of course, each reflection introduces more potential
positional error, so how precise was this beastie, anyway?)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

On 2014-10-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing
to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and
mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but
it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...

Possibly the laser tube (glass or quartz for CO2, I believe) was
too fragile to accept the acceleration. It is possible to design more
durable tubes, but they probably didn't back then. :-) I'm not sure what
the window material would have to be for CO2 -- perhaps something like
Irtran -- I forget what wavelengths it worked well at. I do remember
lenses for far infrared imagers being made from either silicon or
germanium crystals.

Let's see -- Nd/Yag lasers were about 1.06 uM (1064 nm) (very near to
red), and I think that CO2 was closer to 10.6 uM

Also -- depending on the size (mass) of the head, it might be
easier to move the workpiece. :-)

One possibility would be prisms or first-surface reflectors to
take a horizontal light beam parallel to a support beam, and move the
reflector to turn the beam down from the horizontal to impact the
workpiece. (And, of course, each reflection introduces more potential
positional error, so how precise was this beastie, anyway?)

Enjoy,
DoN.
================================================== ===========

On this one the laser has several tubes (10-12 or so, each about 1 meter
long) in series so the beam folds back and forth to keep the overall size
down, and the whole laser ensemble with pumps, heat exchanger, power
supplies, and power control circuitry is a little bit bigger than a
Volkswagen Beetle (or one of our 4020 Fadal cnc machining centers). It
draws about 20 kW electric to make 1.2 kW laser output power, so 18.8 kW
goes into heat, hence the refrigeration system, heat exchanger, and vacuum
pump to keep the laser gas moving rapidly between tubes and heat exchanger
and back. Honestly, it has been a while since I've seen it, but I believe
that the table sits in front of the laser, the beam comes out of the laser
parallel to the floor and travels to the center of the table travel where a
front surface mirror turns it down into the ZnSe lens assembly just above
the table. It is possible that the final laser output points downwards and
is over the table so no turning mirror, just the lens. CO2 lasers make max
power at 10.6 um. Silicon isn't transparent there (has a strong absorption
band at 9 um) but you can use germanium lenses up to about 75 watts uncooled
or maybe 200 watts with water cooled optics mounts, or ZnSe for higher
powers like this. Not sure of the exact specs but we can get cutting
accuracy of at least 0.010", probably better but I've never asked. The beam
is smaller than 0.020" at the focus, so that's the minimum kerf width, and
the table positioning accuracy I would guess is 0.005" or better. You can
gain a lot of cutting speed if you are willing to get rough edges with a lot
of slag and give up some accuracy, so like any job how you set it up depends
on the specs you have to meet for that piece. A shop up in Baltimore has a
slightly later version of our laser, with the moving table assembly between
the laser and a turret punch press so they can do both operations without
having to move the workpiece between machines like we do. Haven't seen
theirs run, just saw it while getting a tour. Looked very impressive and
I'm sure saves them money on combination jobs, but of course you lose the
ability to run both punch press and laser independently and simultaneously.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

The reason they have that limiting factor is the fact that they are
looking for "highly trained" rather than "highly skilled", rather the
same issue throughout industry these days.

I agree with you. It even happened to my son. he spent two years in
production while telling his bosses he was capable of CNC programming
and setup person work. But he had no ticket to prove it. As soon as he
got the chance, he quickly moved up to #1 programmer and lead setup
guy.

Karl

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x


I wish I was 30 years younger, I feel like a dinosaur!

On 10/19/2014 4:24 PM, Ignoramus9750 wrote:
On 2014-10-19, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/18/2014 2:33 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Id be posting a Craigslist ad for them in North Dakota. Given their
work size..they would be good lathes for oilfield work. Even if they
dont cut to .0002..they would be suitable for oilcountry production

Im assuming they are Spanish made based on the name. Nothing wrong
with that btw. Good stuff.

Gunner


What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?


New ones are faster, more accurate, Ethernet enabled, etc.

i


But the market for "good" machines vs "great" machines doesn't exist
except as scrap? I guess it is that big of an advantage in production
and depreciation. It makes sense, who wants to be a second or third
rate producer.

On 20 Oct 2014 04:55:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-10-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...

Possibly the laser tube (glass or quartz for CO2, I believe) was
too fragile to accept the acceleration. It is possible to design more
durable tubes, but they probably didn't back then. :-) I'm not sure what
the window material would have to be for CO2 -- perhaps something like
Irtran -- I forget what wavelengths it worked well at. I do remember
lenses for far infrared imagers being made from either silicon or
germanium crystals.

Let's see -- Nd/Yag lasers were about 1.06 uM (1064 nm) (very near to
red), and I think that CO2 was closer to 10.6 uM

Also -- depending on the size (mass) of the head, it might be
easier to move the workpiece. :-)

One possibility would be prisms or first-surface reflectors to
take a horizontal light beam parallel to a support beam, and move the
reflector to turn the beam down from the horizontal to impact the
workpiece. (And, of course, each reflection introduces more potential
positional error, so how precise was this beastie, anyway?)

Enjoy,
DoN.

As Carl said, it was the mirrors and alignment that were the issue.
You have the wavelengths about right but they're not an issue. The
fiber lasers that have been mentioned, and which are the real speed
demons in thin stock, produce the same wavelength as the Nd/Yag types.

The next big thing is the direct-diode lasers, which are being used
for welding and cladding already, but not much -- yet -- for cutting
sheet and plate. They're coming soon.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:51:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x


I wish I was 30 years younger, I feel like a dinosaur!

Just jump in. It's pretty exciting to watch -- especially, right now,
in the field of lasers for manufacturing. That's why we started _Shop
Floor Lasers_ a month ago:

www.shopfloorlasers.com

I'm going to Fabtech in Atlanta next month. I'll report from the
front.

--
Ed Huntress

Carl, your units must be off.
example: 60 mph = 88 ft/sec.
the example was ft/minute.
Ivan Vegvary

On 20 Oct 2014 04:55:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-10-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...

Possibly the laser tube (glass or quartz for CO2, I believe) was
too fragile to accept the acceleration. It is possible to design more
durable tubes, but they probably didn't back then. :-) I'm not sure what
the window material would have to be for CO2 -- perhaps something like
Irtran -- I forget what wavelengths it worked well at. I do remember
lenses for far infrared imagers being made from either silicon or
germanium crystals.

Yeah, I guess the fragility and mirror/prisms were two major limiters
back in the earlier days. I'm amazed that fiber optic cables can take
the heat, though. I woonta guessed that on my own (but I'm an
outsider.)


Let's see -- Nd/Yag lasers were about 1.06 uM (1064 nm) (very near to
red), and I think that CO2 was closer to 10.6 uM

Also -- depending on the size (mass) of the head, it might be
easier to move the workpiece. :-)

More mass than two 4x8' slabs of 1/2" plate? shrug

One possibility would be prisms or first-surface reflectors to
take a horizontal light beam parallel to a support beam, and move the
reflector to turn the beam down from the horizontal to impact the
workpiece. (And, of course, each reflection introduces more potential
positional error, so how precise was this beastie, anyway?)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/19/2014 4:24 PM, Ignoramus9750 wrote:
On 2014-10-19, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/18/2014 2:33 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Id be posting a Craigslist ad for them in North Dakota. Given their
work size..they would be good lathes for oilfield work. Even if they
dont cut to .0002..they would be suitable for oilcountry production

Im assuming they are Spanish made based on the name. Nothing wrong
with that btw. Good stuff.

Gunner


What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?


New ones are faster, more accurate, Ethernet enabled, etc.

i


But the market for "good" machines vs "great" machines doesn't exist
except as scrap? I guess it is that big of an advantage in production
and depreciation. It makes sense, who wants to be a second or third
rate producer.

The market for used "good" machines certainly exists, but it's in
smaller non-production shops so those beasts are just outside the
acceptable size range. To a large extent if you can't move it with your
1T truck and a decent trailer it's too big to be useable/affordable in
those markets. That puts the limit at something around 10k-12k weight,
or a nice small VMC.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:51:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x

Where Crazy Eddy typed "Which laser will actually cuts your parts"
Somebody call an Editor!


I wish I was 30 years younger, I feel like a dinosaur!

Well, you're two for two, Tawmy boy. Look and feel. gd&r

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:47:09 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:51:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x

Where Crazy Eddy typed "Which laser will actually cuts your parts"
Somebody call an Editor!

You can be our proofreader, Larry. It doesn't pay much...

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 21:33:24 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?

Speeds and feeds most likely. The new stuff is scary fast. Also more and
more 5axis to reduce setups.

Right now,"The Kid" is doing nothing but setting up new 5axis machines
and programming. With this and other optimizing things, they are
reducing time to make a part by a factor of five.

If anyone is interested, the limiting factor is finding enough highly
trained help to get the new stuff running right.

The reason they have that limiting factor is the fact that they are
looking for "highly trained" rather than "highly skilled", rather the
same issue throughout industry these days.

Indeed.

Because I dont have a PHD etc etc in my resume...Ive gotten passed
over for maint jobs, despite the fact I know the tricks many of the
guys with the extra letters dont have a clue about.

Nestle Foods keeps advertising locally for maint people..yet cant find
any because HR apparently doesnt have a clue.
As a single example

Shrug


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 23:12:05 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Well, they used one or two beam steering mirrors to get the beam to the
focusing lens, and back then they already had the table system on the turret
punch presses that they could just use, and they probably didn't think they
could keep a mirror system in alignment over that large a range of motion,
plus it would take at least one more mirror so even more losses and
alignment issues. Nowadays they use fiber bundles to handle the alignment
issue.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...


Ayup. the Laser isnt this box riding on the top of the X/Z mechanism.
Its a rather large (or was) a rather large assembly of tubes at least
3 FEET long enclosed in a shield and bolted down to a coolant/Chiller
system. It remains in place while a series of mirrors are turned
within the X/Z arms and the beam is fed through a "head"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cutting

Its not like bolting this supersize lazer pointer on the moving parts
Grin


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 21:33:24 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?

Speeds and feeds most likely. The new stuff is scary fast. Also more and
more 5axis to reduce setups.

Right now,"The Kid" is doing nothing but setting up new 5axis machines
and programming. With this and other optimizing things, they are
reducing time to make a part by a factor of five.

If anyone is interested, the limiting factor is finding enough highly
trained help to get the new stuff running right.

The reason they have that limiting factor is the fact that they are
looking for "highly trained" rather than "highly skilled", rather the
same issue throughout industry these days.

Indeed.

Because I dont have a PHD etc etc in my resume...Ive gotten passed
over for maint jobs, despite the fact I know the tricks many of the
guys with the extra letters dont have a clue about.

Nestle Foods keeps advertising locally for maint people..yet cant find
any because HR apparently doesnt have a clue.
As a single example


That's like a company advertising for someone with 15 years
experience, in a two year old OS.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Gunner Asch on Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:30:06 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


Indeed.

Because I dont have a PHD etc etc in my resume...Ive gotten passed
over for maint jobs, despite the fact I know the tricks many of the
guys with the extra letters dont have a clue about.

Nestle Foods keeps advertising locally for maint people..yet cant find
any because HR apparently doesnt have a clue.

Or, they are looking for one guy to do exactly what the last guy
did. Never mind if he hard the certificate to do everything when he
started.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Michael A. Terrell" on Mon, 20 Oct 2014
13:49:20 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Because I dont have a PHD etc etc in my resume...Ive gotten passed
over for maint jobs, despite the fact I know the tricks many of the
guys with the extra letters dont have a clue about.

Nestle Foods keeps advertising locally for maint people..yet cant find
any because HR apparently doesnt have a clue.
As a single example


That's like a company advertising for someone with 15 years
experience, in a two year old OS.

My Uncle had this spiel:

"I was born at the age of three, a six foot high midget. I found
it difficult to find work my first two years. It wasn't that they
weren't hiring six foot tall midgets, but that they all wanted three
years of experience."


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:37:32 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 23:12:05 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Well, they used one or two beam steering mirrors to get the beam to the
focusing lens, and back then they already had the table system on the turret
punch presses that they could just use, and they probably didn't think they
could keep a mirror system in alignment over that large a range of motion,
plus it would take at least one more mirror so even more losses and
alignment issues. Nowadays they use fiber bundles to handle the alignment
issue.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...


Ayup. the Laser isnt this box riding on the top of the X/Z mechanism.
Its a rather large (or was) a rather large assembly of tubes at least
3 FEET long enclosed in a shield and bolted down to a coolant/Chiller
system. It remains in place while a series of mirrors are turned
within the X/Z arms and the beam is fed through a "head"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cutting

Its not like bolting this supersize lazer pointer on the moving parts
Grin

Remember how I jumped at the chance to own the laser you said you had?
Well, until you told me it was a pointer, not a burner. Aw, shucks!

More bad news:
Remember that sore throat I had on Oct 4th which turned into a pair of
sinus infections? It came back again last night, 3 days after the
completion of a course of azithromycin, and I'm down again.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On 10/20/2014 7:32 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:51:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x


I wish I was 30 years younger, I feel like a dinosaur!

Just jump in. It's pretty exciting to watch -- especially, right now,
in the field of lasers for manufacturing. That's why we started _Shop
Floor Lasers_ a month ago:

www.shopfloorlasers.com

I'm going to Fabtech in Atlanta next month. I'll report from the
front.


I subscribed and read the site. Fascinating! Thanks for the link.

On 10/20/2014 12:47 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:51:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x

Where Crazy Eddy typed "Which laser will actually cuts your parts"
Somebody call an Editor!


I wish I was 30 years younger, I feel like a dinosaur!

Well, you're two for two, Tawmy boy. Look and feel. gd&r

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck



Appreciate your youth and vitality, you hold the bar high!

On 10/20/2014 4:34 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
More bad news:
Remember that sore throat I had on Oct 4th which turned into a pair of
sinus infections? It came back again last night, 3 days after the
completion of a course of azithromycin, and I'm down again.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck



Hot tea w/honey and lemon and meditate on healing.

On 10/20/2014 11:19 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/19/2014 4:24 PM, Ignoramus9750 wrote:
On 2014-10-19, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/18/2014 2:33 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Id be posting a Craigslist ad for them in North Dakota. Given their
work size..they would be good lathes for oilfield work. Even if they
dont cut to .0002..they would be suitable for oilcountry production

Im assuming they are Spanish made based on the name. Nothing wrong
with that btw. Good stuff.

Gunner


What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?


New ones are faster, more accurate, Ethernet enabled, etc.

i


But the market for "good" machines vs "great" machines doesn't exist
except as scrap? I guess it is that big of an advantage in production
and depreciation. It makes sense, who wants to be a second or third
rate producer.

The market for used "good" machines certainly exists, but it's in
smaller non-production shops so those beasts are just outside the
acceptable size range. To a large extent if you can't move it with your
1T truck and a decent trailer it's too big to be useable/affordable in
those markets. That puts the limit at something around 10k-12k weight,
or a nice small VMC.



A few more years of 3D printing and they will ALL be obsolete!

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:34:09 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/20/2014 7:32 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:51:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 10/19/2014 5:12 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's an explanation of how LVD-Strippit does it on their new fiber
laser machines:

http://tinyurl.com/nb5694x


I wish I was 30 years younger, I feel like a dinosaur!

Just jump in. It's pretty exciting to watch -- especially, right now,
in the field of lasers for manufacturing. That's why we started _Shop
Floor Lasers_ a month ago:

www.shopfloorlasers.com

I'm going to Fabtech in Atlanta next month. I'll report from the
front.


I subscribed and read the site. Fascinating! Thanks for the link.

Good. I hope you enjoy it.

That was the first issue. It starts its regular, every-other-month
schedule in January.

And, although I'm on the top of the masthead, that's just an internal
thing. It's really edited by Abbe Miller, who is first-class. I'm
looking forward to seeing what she can do with it.

If you want to see a trade magazine article that's about as good as it
gets, read her article "Best of Both Worlds -- Hybrid Laser Welding."

--
Ed Huntress

On 10/20/2014 12:37 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 23:12:05 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Well, they used one or two beam steering mirrors to get the beam to the
focusing lens, and back then they already had the table system on the turret
punch presses that they could just use, and they probably didn't think they
could keep a mirror system in alignment over that large a range of motion,
plus it would take at least one more mirror so even more losses and
alignment issues. Nowadays they use fiber bundles to handle the alignment
issue.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 20:03:29 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

The sparks travel that fast, yeah, that's what I meant :-). Guess I
shouldn't post while watching football. The Giants just finished losing to
Dallas, and I'm not doing any math, so maybe I'm safe from typos and mental
misteaks (:-)) this time. We have a 1200 W Amada CO2 laser at work, but it
dates from the 80's and moves the sheet, not the laser head, so it isn't
nearly as impressive as current tech.

Perhaps not, but 1200w is nothing to scoff at. I wonder why they
moved the work instead of the cutter, though...


Ayup. the Laser isnt this box riding on the top of the X/Z mechanism.
Its a rather large (or was) a rather large assembly of tubes at least
3 FEET long enclosed in a shield and bolted down to a coolant/Chiller
system. It remains in place while a series of mirrors are turned
within the X/Z arms and the beam is fed through a "head"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cutting

Its not like bolting this supersize lazer pointer on the moving parts
Grin


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

I have an heavy duty laser printer. The laser is the size of my hand.
It shines on a rotating reflector (high quality) and prints the letters
and pictures on the drum of the printer - the drum transports the
magnetized ink onto the static paper and into the burner/hot head.
Delivers out a 1200 dpi print. Laser is better than spec - I buy high
quality ink/drums normal is 600, high quality is 1200.
I gave one to my son for some high tech show and tell - don't know if
it is gas, ruby, or diode. Figure it is ruby from the age.
Laser affixed and the 1/1200th or less of a line is spit out serially.
drum rolls and another is sent. Very high speed mind you.
Martin

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 16:47:50 -0400, Carl Ijames wrote:

125 feet per minute is 85 miles per hour,

They are good, but not that good. 125 ft/min is about 2fps or 1.5 mph.

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/20/2014 11:19 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/19/2014 4:24 PM, Ignoramus9750 wrote:
On 2014-10-19, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/18/2014 2:33 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Id be posting a Craigslist ad for them in North Dakota. Given their
work size..they would be good lathes for oilfield work. Even if they
dont cut to .0002..they would be suitable for oilcountry production

Im assuming they are Spanish made based on the name. Nothing wrong
with that btw. Good stuff.

Gunner


What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?


New ones are faster, more accurate, Ethernet enabled, etc.

i


But the market for "good" machines vs "great" machines doesn't exist
except as scrap? I guess it is that big of an advantage in production
and depreciation. It makes sense, who wants to be a second or third
rate producer.

The market for used "good" machines certainly exists, but it's in
smaller non-production shops so those beasts are just outside the
acceptable size range. To a large extent if you can't move it with your
1T truck and a decent trailer it's too big to be useable/affordable in
those markets. That puts the limit at something around 10k-12k weight,
or a nice small VMC.


A few more years of 3D printing and they will ALL be obsolete!

A few more decades perhaps. Current 3D printing aint' even close except
for very high end very expensive setups that require not just a super
expensive 3D printer, but also a furnace for sintering metal and plenty
of other ancillary equipment to produce what a used VMC can produce for
a fraction of the cost. Yea, 3D printing can do complex internal stuff
you can't readily do on a VMC, but that stuff is also rarely needed for
real world parts.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" on Mon, 20 Oct 2014
13:49:20 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Because I dont have a PHD etc etc in my resume...Ive gotten passed
over for maint jobs, despite the fact I know the tricks many of the
guys with the extra letters dont have a clue about.

Nestle Foods keeps advertising locally for maint people..yet cant find
any because HR apparently doesnt have a clue.
As a single example


That's like a company advertising for someone with 15 years
experience, in a two year old OS.

My Uncle had this spiel:

"I was born at the age of three, a six foot high midget. I found
it difficult to find work my first two years. It wasn't that they
weren't hiring six foot tall midgets, but that they all wanted three
years of experience."


A local manufacturer advertised for someone to build test fixtures
for medical electronics. I applied, and detailed the test fixture work I
did at Microdyne. Four years wasn't enough to be considered. How many
people do they think were looking for work, like that.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 10/20/2014 8:59 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/20/2014 11:19 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/19/2014 4:24 PM, Ignoramus9750 wrote:
On 2014-10-19, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/18/2014 2:33 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Id be posting a Craigslist ad for them in North Dakota. Given their
work size..they would be good lathes for oilfield work. Even if they
dont cut to .0002..they would be suitable for oilcountry production

Im assuming they are Spanish made based on the name. Nothing wrong
with that btw. Good stuff.

Gunner


What's the difference between these and new? How are they obsolete?


New ones are faster, more accurate, Ethernet enabled, etc.

i


But the market for "good" machines vs "great" machines doesn't exist
except as scrap? I guess it is that big of an advantage in production
and depreciation. It makes sense, who wants to be a second or third
rate producer.

The market for used "good" machines certainly exists, but it's in
smaller non-production shops so those beasts are just outside the
acceptable size range. To a large extent if you can't move it with your
1T truck and a decent trailer it's too big to be useable/affordable in
those markets. That puts the limit at something around 10k-12k weight,
or a nice small VMC.


A few more years of 3D printing and they will ALL be obsolete!

A few more decades perhaps. Current 3D printing aint' even close except
for very high end very expensive setups that require not just a super
expensive 3D printer, but also a furnace for sintering metal and plenty
of other ancillary equipment to produce what a used VMC can produce for
a fraction of the cost. Yea, 3D printing can do complex internal stuff
you can't readily do on a VMC, but that stuff is also rarely needed for
real world parts.

They can use pure copper, bronze, and another metal I can't recall.
They have some really large ones that make cars now. Parts like frames
and bumpers...everything.

Kinda cool. - oh and the other cool thing is the birds are attacking
these flying spy things. Goose jumped on and a smaller bird of some
type maybe a starling. Saw it on video's on Yahoo.

Martin