Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary

Ivan Vegvary fired this volley in
:

Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will
not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.


'These' as in normal one-lung vertical-shaft motors, or Harbor Freight
motors, specifically?

Lots of verticals are used in pulley take-off setups, where the only
'flywheel' is a little steel or pot metal vee-belt pulley. They seem to
work just fine. Although you might not realize it, there's a substantial
flywheel on the motor, as it comes.

Lloyd

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to
replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well
drilling setup. Some time back there was mention in this group that
these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower
blades etc. Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts
weighing just a few ounces. clarification would be appreciated. Let's
not get off topic with a HF rant. Thanks. Ivan Vegvary

That usually applies to the engines used on the blue light special push
mowers. The ones where they trimmed the flywheels as much as possible
and expect a blade to be there.
The "general purpose" replacements sold at HF and others don't need the
blade as a flywheel.

If you buy one I suggest you drain it, then dump in some solvent and
slosh it around real good. Do that twice to make sure that all the
casting sand/flash/swarf is gone. Then use a good oil to fill it. and go
over all the bolts to make sure they are secure.
They are a decent engine. Most are based on Honda designs.


--
Steve W.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
The vrtical shaft engines used on pressure washers work just fine -
but they are not lown mower engines. You need an engine with a
high-mass flywheel

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:16:01 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ivan Vegvary fired this volley in
:

Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will
not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.


'These' as in normal one-lung vertical-shaft motors, or Harbor Freight
motors, specifically?

Lots of verticals are used in pulley take-off setups, where the only
'flywheel' is a little steel or pot metal vee-belt pulley. They seem to
work just fine. Although you might not realize it, there's a substantial
flywheel on the motor, as it comes.

Lloyd
MANY direct drive rotary mower engines had a "low mass" flywheel and
would not start or run under about 2000rpm with the blade
disconnected.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:54:35 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to
replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well
drilling setup. Some time back there was mention in this group that
these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower
blades etc. Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts
weighing just a few ounces. clarification would be appreciated. Let's
not get off topic with a HF rant. Thanks. Ivan Vegvary

That usually applies to the engines used on the blue light special push
mowers. The ones where they trimmed the flywheels as much as possible
and expect a blade to be there.
The "general purpose" replacements sold at HF and others don't need the
blade as a flywheel.

If you buy one I suggest you drain it, then dump in some solvent and
slosh it around real good. Do that twice to make sure that all the
casting sand/flash/swarf is gone. Then use a good oil to fill it. and go
over all the bolts to make sure they are secure.
They are a decent engine. Most are based on Honda designs.
Like anything made in China, be prepaired to treat it as a
semi-assembled kit, and you are usually OK.

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the
unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not
run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just
a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
================================================== ================================================

Reading the manual at hf
(http://manuals.harborfreight.com/man...999/69731.pdf), it says
several times to only use this on a lawnmower, not on a vehicle, which isn't
that much help because lots of riding mowers use belt drives between motor
and blades. However, on page 8 in the installation instructions it says:

8. Refer to the mower's service manual for instructions
on how to properly attach a belt drive pulley, chain
drive gear, etc. onto the output shaft of the Engine.

So to me that says it should be able to handle your pulley without a blade
for extra flywheel, but I have no first-hand experience so of course ymmv.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On Saturday, October 11, 2014 12:11:03 AM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:54:35 -0400, "Steve W."

wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to

replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well

drilling setup. Some time back there was mention in this group that

these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower

blades etc. Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.

In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts

weighing just a few ounces. clarification would be appreciated. Let's

not get off topic with a HF rant. Thanks. Ivan Vegvary

That usually applies to the engines used on the blue light special push

mowers. The ones where they trimmed the flywheels as much as possible

and expect a blade to be there.

The "general purpose" replacements sold at HF and others don't need the

blade as a flywheel.

If you buy one I suggest you drain it, then dump in some solvent and

slosh it around real good. Do that twice to make sure that all the

casting sand/flash/swarf is gone. Then use a good oil to fill it. and go

over all the bolts to make sure they are secure.

They are a decent engine. Most are based on Honda designs.

Like anything made in China, be prepaired to treat it as a

semi-assembled kit, and you are usually OK.

I wouldn't say all that about a time-honored venerable Japanese company like that, but I don't know Clare. Some of the stuff from areas outside of Japan like that is so gosh-awful ramshackle that it is pretty appalling.

To see an imported nail-clipper from the dollar store fall apart after its first use? You don't know whether to laugh or cry. Ever had that happen?

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
Greetings Ivan,
I have one of those Deep Rock well drillers. It uses a two stroke
engine. I'm pretty sure that the Flymo mowers used the same engine. So
maybe a garage sale mower might get what you want. Regarding the
flywheel problem, if an engine can power a log splitter or pressure
washer pump attached directly to the shaft the engine will work for
your well driller. If the engine is made to power a mower that has a
clutch of some sort that disconnects the engine from the blade(s) it
will also work. But if the engine is made to power a load that acts as
a flywheel it will not be safe to use. The engine will try to run
backwards if the starter cord is not pulled fast enough and will
violently yank the handle from your hand. If you can pull it really
fast, and if the motor never gets bogged down while in use, you might
get away with an engine meant for a rotary mower. So check out the HF
engine and see if it is made to power loads like a log splitter pump.
Cheers,
Eric

On 10/11/2014 11:59 AM, wrote:
... But if the engine is made to power a load that acts as
a flywheel it will not be safe to use. The engine will try to run
backwards if the starter cord is not pulled fast enough and will
violently yank the handle from your hand. ...


I used a lawn mower engine for my Power Wagon (see Dropbox). It
definitely needs a blade, but I manage. The violently yanking part is
the biggest problem. I hurt my wrist a couple of times before I learned
to always use both hands on the cord and give a swift pull. Once
running there is no problem. Adding a flywheel to the output shaft has
been on my to-do list for a long time.

Bob

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 08:39:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, October 11, 2014 12:11:03 AM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:54:35 -0400, "Steve W."

wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to

replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well

drilling setup. Some time back there was mention in this group that

these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower

blades etc. Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.

In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts

weighing just a few ounces. clarification would be appreciated. Let's

not get off topic with a HF rant. Thanks. Ivan Vegvary

That usually applies to the engines used on the blue light special push

mowers. The ones where they trimmed the flywheels as much as possible

and expect a blade to be there.

The "general purpose" replacements sold at HF and others don't need the

blade as a flywheel.

If you buy one I suggest you drain it, then dump in some solvent and

slosh it around real good. Do that twice to make sure that all the

casting sand/flash/swarf is gone. Then use a good oil to fill it. and go

over all the bolts to make sure they are secure.

They are a decent engine. Most are based on Honda designs.

Like anything made in China, be prepaired to treat it as a

semi-assembled kit, and you are usually OK.

I wouldn't say all that about a time-honored venerable Japanese company like that, but I don't know Clare. Some of the stuff from areas outside of Japan like that is so gosh-awful ramshackle that it is pretty appalling.

To see an imported nail-clipper from the dollar store fall apart after its first use? You don't know whether to laugh or cry. Ever had that happen?
The engines are not Hondas. They are Chiinese clones They may be
"based on Honda designs" but in many cases not close enough to use
Honda parts - and even if they are, they are no generally of Honda
quality - although they are improving.
The last ChiCom Honda clone engine I got required removal of the fuel
tank to install the fuel line that was inadvertently missed during
assembly. I've seen them with governor springs mis-assembled, carbs
not properly assembled or attached, and all kinds of other issues.
Lots of Chinese equipment that "almost" worked - and was "almost"
assembled properly. Assume it is a kit assembled by someone who " knew
just enough to be dangerous", or it was "assembled just to make it fit
into the box".

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 00:09:26 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:16:01 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ivan Vegvary fired this volley in
:

Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will
not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.


'These' as in normal one-lung vertical-shaft motors, or Harbor Freight
motors, specifically?

Lots of verticals are used in pulley take-off setups, where the only
'flywheel' is a little steel or pot metal vee-belt pulley. They seem to
work just fine. Although you might not realize it, there's a substantial
flywheel on the motor, as it comes.

Lloyd
MANY direct drive rotary mower engines had a "low mass" flywheel and
would not start or run under about 2000rpm with the blade
disconnected.
I found this with tecumseh engines but not with B&S
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On 10/10/2014 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
The vrtical shaft engines used on pressure washers work just fine -
but they are not lown mower engines. You need an engine with a
high-mass flywheel

A chipper motor has a nice flywheel.

I had a one cylinder chipper. It would start on the first pull every
time. You had to pull hard and fast and the flywheel would spin the
cylinder several times if it had to. I had to give it away when I
moved. Large piston size - and powerful.

Martin

wrote:

The engines are not Hondas. They are Chiinese clones They may be
"based on Honda designs" but in many cases not close enough to use
Honda parts - and even if they are, they are no generally of Honda
quality - although they are improving.
The last ChiCom Honda clone engine I got required removal of the fuel
tank to install the fuel line that was inadvertently missed during
assembly. I've seen them with governor springs mis-assembled, carbs
not properly assembled or attached, and all kinds of other issues.
Lots of Chinese equipment that "almost" worked - and was "almost"
assembled properly. Assume it is a kit assembled by someone who " knew
just enough to be dangerous", or it was "assembled just to make it fit
into the box".



Actually the 6.5 horse horizontal is almost exactly the same as a Honda
of the same size. The crank, rod, piston, rings all interchange with a
Honda. Currently they are a hot item with cart racers. They drill the
main jet out, add an offset key and a 3 stage exhaust and get 10 HP easy.


--
Steve W.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:25:23 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 10/10/2014 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
The vrtical shaft engines used on pressure washers work just fine -
but they are not lown mower engines. You need an engine with a
high-mass flywheel

A chipper motor has a nice flywheel.

I had a one cylinder chipper. It would start on the first pull every
time. You had to pull hard and fast and the flywheel would spin the
cylinder several times if it had to. I had to give it away when I
moved. Large piston size - and powerful.

Martin

Which reminds me..anyone need a near new Craftsman chipper shredder?
Has a 6.5hp engine on it. I have zero need for it and Id like to swap
something for it.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch on Sun, 12 Oct 2014 01:25:44 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:25:23 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 10/10/2014 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
The vrtical shaft engines used on pressure washers work just fine -
but they are not lown mower engines. You need an engine with a
high-mass flywheel

A chipper motor has a nice flywheel.

I had a one cylinder chipper. It would start on the first pull every
time. You had to pull hard and fast and the flywheel would spin the
cylinder several times if it had to. I had to give it away when I
moved. Large piston size - and powerful.

Martin

Which reminds me..anyone need a near new Craftsman chipper shredder?
Has a 6.5hp engine on it. I have zero need for it and Id like to swap
something for it.

Now if only I had something worth trading .... six ton of bricks?
naw, saving that for the porch. Or BBQ. Or something ...
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 03:17:07 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sun, 12 Oct 2014 01:25:44 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:25:23 -0500, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 10/10/2014 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Want to purchase a vertical shaft small engine (probably HF) to replace the unobtainable one that goes on my "Deep Rock" well drilling setup.
Some time back there was mention in this group that these engines will not run without the flywheel effect of lawn mower blades etc.
Is this true. There is no mention of this in the specs.
In my case the only flywheel effect would be some clutch parts weighing just a few ounces.
clarification would be appreciated. Let's not get off topic with a HF rant.
Thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
The vrtical shaft engines used on pressure washers work just fine -
but they are not lown mower engines. You need an engine with a
high-mass flywheel

A chipper motor has a nice flywheel.

I had a one cylinder chipper. It would start on the first pull every
time. You had to pull hard and fast and the flywheel would spin the
cylinder several times if it had to. I had to give it away when I
moved. Large piston size - and powerful.

Martin

Which reminds me..anyone need a near new Craftsman chipper shredder?
Has a 6.5hp engine on it. I have zero need for it and Id like to swap
something for it.

Now if only I had something worth trading .... six ton of bricks?
naw, saving that for the porch. Or BBQ. Or something ...
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Shooting sticks would work. You would have to come for it though.
Its too big to put in an envelope...

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke