I have an early 70's Craftsman "Shredder Bagger" (chipper,
model 917.285761) that has a 143.226032 engine (Tecumseh
V60-70233H. Vertical shaft 6HP 4 stroke, "L Head" I believe).

Pretty good shape, not used in about 4 years.

After degunking the carburator, it starts first pull even
when cold.

I had to remove the carburator/disconnect the governor
links. I don't think I buggered anything up putting it back
together (ie: the links didn't get bent, they're _definately_
in the right holes).

Problem is it's running a trifle fast. I _assume_ it's
supposed to be tuned to 3600 RPM. It seems to start out
around 3800, and then slowly creeps up. Ie: 4000+ RPM
after a few minutes.

No surging. Just smooth slow increase.

That's worrisome (the thought of those blades or a rod...).

So the assumption is that the governor either requires
adjustment or is borked.

I've gotten the Tech manual for it, but as I've not
had to fiddle with governors before, and I REALLY REALLY
don't want to pull the crankcase apart to get at the
internals, I was wondering if anybody might comment
on the symptoms:

[If someone has the docs that say what the idle/fast
speeds on this specific model _should_ be, I'd appreciate
that too!]

The governor arm (with the rod/spring linkage to the carb)
is always "hard to" the "slow" side. If I gently move
the arm counterclockwise (long arm towards the carb), the
engine speeds up (even more). It has no travel CW
(no movement right from dead vertical), and hence the
governor _can't_ slow it down.

I haven't _yet_ tried to adjust the governor, I have to
study the manual a bit more before that.

Does this sound like (just) an adjustment/external linkage
issue, or would you think something inside borked?

I have no evidence (yet) that the internals will actually
move the governor arm based on engine speed.

The governor linkage looks almost exactly identical to this:

http://www.small-engines.com/tvs.html (first one, upper left).

The only difference being that the governor clamp(? short
arm) and link (long arm) is at the 6 oclock position instead
of the 3 oclock position in the diagram.

[Think of the long arm as the minute hand, and the short arm
as the hour ;-)]

The manual talks about swinging the clamp to 9 oclock,
but only with motors = 5HP and made prior to 1977. It's
6HP, but I assume it was prior to 1977.

It's really not clear which way it should be from the manual, except
perhaps I should be assuming that the diagram from the above link
(they're from the manual) _is_ correct, and not that specific to
TVM series. My carb is slightly different than the one pictured
for the TVM. None of the other generator linkages come remotely
close to mine.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris,

Knowing whether the internals are working should be fairly easy. At rest, with the engine speed control at max if so
equipped, the spring should be pulling the throttle plate wide open. As soon as the engine reaches speed, the governor
should move the plate toward the closed position. If there is no such movement, there might be a problem inside the motor
although this is rare.

It seems much more likely it's just an adjustment problem, especially since you state that the governor is unable to move the
throttle to the closed position. If you adjust it a little so it *can* close the throttle, you'll probably be all set.

If your linkage is exactly as pictured, you can make small adjustments by tweaking the linkage wire where it's "kinked" in
the middle. If more adjustment is needed, you should be able to loosen the screw where the governor arm attaches near the
shaft coming out of the motor, and reposition it.

Don't have specs on your particular motor but 99+% of them are designed to run at 3600 RPM when set to highest speed. Idle
specs exist, but as a practical matter you usually just set the lowest speed where it runs smoothly.

Eric Law

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ...
I have an early 70's Craftsman "Shredder Bagger" (chipper,
model 917.285761) that has a 143.226032 engine (Tecumseh
V60-70233H. Vertical shaft 6HP 4 stroke, "L Head" I believe).

Pretty good shape, not used in about 4 years.

After degunking the carburator, it starts first pull even
when cold.

I had to remove the carburator/disconnect the governor
links. I don't think I buggered anything up putting it back
together (ie: the links didn't get bent, they're _definately_
in the right holes).

Problem is it's running a trifle fast. I _assume_ it's
supposed to be tuned to 3600 RPM. It seems to start out
around 3800, and then slowly creeps up. Ie: 4000+ RPM
after a few minutes.

No surging. Just smooth slow increase.

That's worrisome (the thought of those blades or a rod...).

So the assumption is that the governor either requires
adjustment or is borked.

I've gotten the Tech manual for it, but as I've not
had to fiddle with governors before, and I REALLY REALLY
don't want to pull the crankcase apart to get at the
internals, I was wondering if anybody might comment
on the symptoms:

[If someone has the docs that say what the idle/fast
speeds on this specific model _should_ be, I'd appreciate
that too!]

The governor arm (with the rod/spring linkage to the carb)
is always "hard to" the "slow" side. If I gently move
the arm counterclockwise (long arm towards the carb), the
engine speeds up (even more). It has no travel CW
(no movement right from dead vertical), and hence the
governor _can't_ slow it down.

I haven't _yet_ tried to adjust the governor, I have to
study the manual a bit more before that.

Does this sound like (just) an adjustment/external linkage
issue, or would you think something inside borked?

I have no evidence (yet) that the internals will actually
move the governor arm based on engine speed.

The governor linkage looks almost exactly identical to this:

http://www.small-engines.com/tvs.html (first one, upper left).

The only difference being that the governor clamp(? short
arm) and link (long arm) is at the 6 oclock position instead
of the 3 oclock position in the diagram.

[Think of the long arm as the minute hand, and the short arm
as the hour ;-)]

The manual talks about swinging the clamp to 9 oclock,
but only with motors = 5HP and made prior to 1977. It's
6HP, but I assume it was prior to 1977.

It's really not clear which way it should be from the manual, except
perhaps I should be assuming that the diagram from the above link
(they're from the manual) _is_ correct, and not that specific to
TVM series. My carb is slightly different than the one pictured
for the TVM. None of the other generator linkages come remotely
close to mine.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

id try resetting the gov adjustment. procedure should be in your manual.
basically you loosen the screw on the gov arm ,turn the shaft sticking
out of the engine til it stops ccw or cw depending on manual
instructions,while at the same time holding the throttleshaft on the
carb in the wide open position,with both shafts in this position tighten
the screw on the gov arm and its set.you can grab the gov arm and move
it to accellerate while its running ,if you feel it being pulled back
then the gov inside is working. lucas

On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:43:10 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

I have an early 70's Craftsman "Shredder Bagger" (chipper,
model 917.285761) that has a 143.226032 engine (Tecumseh
V60-70233H. Vertical shaft 6HP 4 stroke, "L Head" I believe).

Pretty good shape, not used in about 4 years.

After degunking the carburator, it starts first pull even
when cold.

I had to remove the carburator/disconnect the governor
links. I don't think I buggered anything up putting it back
together (ie: the links didn't get bent, they're _definately_
in the right holes).

Problem is it's running a trifle fast. I _assume_ it's
supposed to be tuned to 3600 RPM. It seems to start out
around 3800, and then slowly creeps up. Ie: 4000+ RPM
after a few minutes.

No surging. Just smooth slow increase.

That's worrisome (the thought of those blades or a rod...).

So the assumption is that the governor either requires
adjustment or is borked.

I've gotten the Tech manual for it, but as I've not
had to fiddle with governors before, and I REALLY REALLY
don't want to pull the crankcase apart to get at the
internals, I was wondering if anybody might comment
on the symptoms:

[If someone has the docs that say what the idle/fast
speeds on this specific model _should_ be, I'd appreciate
that too!]

The governor arm (with the rod/spring linkage to the carb)
is always "hard to" the "slow" side. If I gently move
the arm counterclockwise (long arm towards the carb), the
engine speeds up (even more). It has no travel CW
(no movement right from dead vertical), and hence the
governor _can't_ slow it down.

I haven't _yet_ tried to adjust the governor, I have to
study the manual a bit more before that.

Does this sound like (just) an adjustment/external linkage
issue, or would you think something inside borked?

I have no evidence (yet) that the internals will actually
move the governor arm based on engine speed.

The governor linkage looks almost exactly identical to this:

http://www.small-engines.com/tvs.html (first one, upper left).

The only difference being that the governor clamp(? short
arm) and link (long arm) is at the 6 oclock position instead
of the 3 oclock position in the diagram.

[Think of the long arm as the minute hand, and the short arm
as the hour ;-)]

The manual talks about swinging the clamp to 9 oclock,
but only with motors = 5HP and made prior to 1977. It's
6HP, but I assume it was prior to 1977.

It's really not clear which way it should be from the manual, except
perhaps I should be assuming that the diagram from the above link
(they're from the manual) _is_ correct, and not that specific to
TVM series. My carb is slightly different than the one pictured
for the TVM. None of the other generator linkages come remotely
close to mine.

Sounds like ,, when you reassembled the linkages.. something was
turned 90 or 180 degrees from where it should be..

On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:43:10 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

I have an early 70's Craftsman "Shredder Bagger" (chipper,
model 917.285761) that has a 143.226032 engine (Tecumseh
V60-70233H. Vertical shaft 6HP 4 stroke, "L Head" I believe).

Pretty good shape, not used in about 4 years.

After degunking the carburator, it starts first pull even

The governor simply controls a butterfly valve in the carb. As the
valve closes the engine gets less air/fuel mixture and slows down.
Form you description the governor is already pushing the valve closed
as best it can.

So it sounds like your governor is working fine and you have another
problem. Perhaps you have one heck of a vacuum leak somewhere on the
carb or the butterfly vlave is missing or damaged. Another
possibility would be that the linkage for the governor is back on
wrong. You could try disconnecting it and manually closing the valve
to see if the engine slows. At the fully closed position the engine
should barely run or die.

Steve B.

According to EL :
It seems much more likely it's just an adjustment problem, especially since
you state that the governor is unable to move the throttle to the closed
position. If you adjust it a little so it *can* close the throttle, you'll probably
be all set.

I had a chance to work on it, and the situation is a little different than
I thought. I adjusted the governor by the instructions in the manual
(and those here - thanks!). It didn't change the motor's behaviour.

The governor _can_ pull the throttle plate all the way closed (and in
fact it is closed all the way when running). When pulled all the way
closed, the motor is _still_ running at over 3600 RPM.

It won't slow down to an idle either.

In other words, over 3600 RPM is the minimum speed.

The only way to slow the motor down is to starve it via the run needle.
The idle needle does nothing.

The state of the governor internals is still somewhat unknown, but,
given that it runs so fast even when the throttle is closed all the way,
it's probably fine.

The troubleshooting chart doesn't have symptoms that exactly match
this, but, making some assumptions, this is probably due to air
leaks inside the carburator - gaskets, needle seals, damaged needles,
bowl seals, etc, bypassing the throttle plate.

Right?

I've bought a carb kit (various seals and replacement needles), plus
the two gaskets between the carb and the engine. That, plus a more
thorough cleanout should do the trick. I perhaps don't have to go
this far, but, it's a useful learning experience ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

While the engine is running, using the spray stem to localize the action,
spray a small burst of WD-40 around the mounting gasket(s) area to see if it
affects the engine speed. This will indicate a vacuum leak if it does. If
you hold the butterfly shut on the engine and it is still revving high, you
very likely have a vacuum leak between the butterfly and the engine valves.
Check orientation of gaskets to see if one was placed back on incorrectly,
thereby allowing air into the intake tract. Make sure mounting ears are not
cracked. Start slowly blocking off the intake port of the carb with your
gloved hand or a piece of cardboard, as some butterflies have a port hole in
them. If this doesn't slow the engine, then you DEFINITELY have a vacuum
leak, as the engine has to get it's air from somewhere to run.

RJ

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to EL :
It seems much more likely it's just an adjustment problem, especially
since
you state that the governor is unable to move the throttle to the closed
position. If you adjust it a little so it *can* close the throttle,
you'll probably
be all set.

I had a chance to work on it, and the situation is a little different than
I thought. I adjusted the governor by the instructions in the manual
(and those here - thanks!). It didn't change the motor's behaviour.

The governor _can_ pull the throttle plate all the way closed (and in
fact it is closed all the way when running). When pulled all the way
closed, the motor is _still_ running at over 3600 RPM.

It won't slow down to an idle either.

In other words, over 3600 RPM is the minimum speed.

The only way to slow the motor down is to starve it via the run needle.
The idle needle does nothing.

The state of the governor internals is still somewhat unknown, but,
given that it runs so fast even when the throttle is closed all the way,
it's probably fine.

The troubleshooting chart doesn't have symptoms that exactly match
this, but, making some assumptions, this is probably due to air
leaks inside the carburator - gaskets, needle seals, damaged needles,
bowl seals, etc, bypassing the throttle plate.

Right?

I've bought a carb kit (various seals and replacement needles), plus
the two gaskets between the carb and the engine. That, plus a more
thorough cleanout should do the trick. I perhaps don't have to go
this far, but, it's a useful learning experience ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

if the engine is running too fast with the throttle plate all the way
closed, this is not a governor problem but rather a carb problem. Ther
gov is trying to slow the engine down but the carb won't do it. You
must have an air leak or some other problem with the carb. With the
throttle plate all the way closed the engine should be at idle or less.
You need to figure out hoe air and gas is getting to the eingine
despite the fact that the throttle is closed.

Mark

is the round plate still on the throttleshaft inside the venturi,
usually held by 2 screws.lucas.

According to :
is the round plate still on the throttleshaft inside the venturi,
usually held by 2 screws.lucas.

I've not actually seen the plate (didn't have the elbow off the carb,
and it's too dark looking t'other way in ;-), but I'm pretty sure it's
there. Otherwise, the motor wouldn't speed up when I open up the
throttle shaft.

In any event, I'll find out when I take it apart again soon.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Backlash :
While the engine is running, using the spray stem to localize the action,
spray a small burst of WD-40 around the mounting gasket(s) area to see if it
affects the engine speed. This will indicate a vacuum leak if it does. If
you hold the butterfly shut on the engine and it is still revving high, you
very likely have a vacuum leak between the butterfly and the engine valves.
Check orientation of gaskets to see if one was placed back on incorrectly,
thereby allowing air into the intake tract. Make sure mounting ears are not
cracked. Start slowly blocking off the intake port of the carb with your
gloved hand or a piece of cardboard, as some butterflies have a port hole in
them. If this doesn't slow the engine, then you DEFINITELY have a vacuum
leak, as the engine has to get it's air from somewhere to run.

I put my hand over the air filter intake, and was able to stall it. So,
there wasn't an external leak. Took the carb apart, cleaned it,
installed the "carb kit" and replaced the gaskets between the carb
and valves.

Now it will idle. It's probable that my original problem was that
the idle regulator screw (sets minimum throttle opening) was set
_way_ too far in and held the throttle plate open too far, but I
didn't understand the carburator well enough at the time to realize
what I had to do. Now that I took the whole thing apart, I do now :-(

The engine hunts a fair bit at full speed but settles down after warmup.
It hunts at idle even after warmup, and if I move it too far towards
idle, it quits.

I think this will go away once it has a more formal/careful
adjustment - especially the idle regulator screw. Unfortunately, the
relevant Tecumseh manual doesn't appear to have anything to say about
adjusting the idle regulator, other than an initial setting (one turn
"back" from no longer contacting the throttle - I assume it's the
full closed end of the throttle range).

I have all four screws to adjust properly (idle & run
mixture, run screw for the governor, idle regulating screw).

The governor arm is _clearly_ operating now.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.