I tend to run a bit behind the times with computers, only finally
switching from my W2k computer to an XP box shortly before my move.
I elected to bring the computer in my checked baggage, as I have all
my photography software and thousands of photos on it. But pulled the
HDD's and packed in my carry on. Also had my laptop and three small
external drives in carry on.

Get down here, put the drives back in, boot up, and....
Unknown Device on both disks. Whoa. At first I thought maybe the carry
on scanner biffed them. Google showed the X-ray scanners are not a
problem, but, the full body scanners can emit a strong magnetic field
that can affect a drive, and at SFO, the scanner is pretty close to the
X-ray line. But the laptop and external drives were fine.
I'd brought my HDD dock to salvage some data off my wife's old computer,
but grabbed the wrong power supply. Finally go a replacement, and both
drives are recognized just find when hooked to the laptop, can see all
my folders. Figured if I could see them, the data must be OK and didn't
go further. So looking deeper into it (and yes, I DID switch the PS to
220 before plugging it in!), I checked power to the drives. The 12vdc is
running 14v, but the 5vdc line is running a whopping 31 volts! I cycled
the input voltage selector several times, but made no difference. So,
new mobo and PS on the way thanks to eBay.
I'd buy something much newer, except all my install disks are buried
deep in storage back in the States.

So, just curious, has anyone ever seen a PS do this before?
Any thoughts on what happened to it to run the 5v side so high?

Thanks,

Jon

On 5/15/2014 2:04 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Jon Anderson wrote:

I checked power to the drives. The 12vdc is
running 14v, but the 5vdc line is running a whopping 31 volts! I cycled
the input voltage selector several times, but made no difference. So,
new mobo and PS on the way thanks to eBay.
Impossible! If there was 31 V on the 5V supply to the drives, you'd
have flames pouring out of them! I have seen a DVM show 120 V DC
on a 5V supply where the equipment was working correctly. It may
be possible to turn off the auto-range and get a more reliable
reading. Or, try a different meter.

Jon


No load? Maybe?

Jon Anderson wrote:

I checked power to the drives. The 12vdc is
running 14v, but the 5vdc line is running a whopping 31 volts! I cycled
the input voltage selector several times, but made no difference. So,
new mobo and PS on the way thanks to eBay.
Impossible! If there was 31 V on the 5V supply to the drives, you'd
have flames pouring out of them! I have seen a DVM show 120 V DC
on a 5V supply where the equipment was working correctly. It may
be possible to turn off the auto-range and get a more reliable
reading. Or, try a different meter.

Jon

Accidentally replied direct to Jon Elson, for anyone with possible
input, this was my response to him:

------------------
I'd thought maybe there was voltage, but not enough current to damage
anything. And I'd checked power with all but one drive plugged in, so
the PS was loaded.

Meter is a Fluke 8020 B, not some cheap auto-range. I'm no electronics
guru, but reasonably confident I know how to measure DC voltages. But to
prove I did it right, I went and checked the output of a wall wart.
Dang, a 13 volt supply was measuring over 200 volts! Then tried a 9 volt
battery, and it's showing 57 volts.

I was severely weight restricted in my move, just my checked luggage
cost $500 for extra bags and overweight. So I shipped some basic tools
via USPS. Looks like my Fluke didn't survive the trip despite being well
padded. I'll go buy an inexpensive meter and see what it says about the
power supply...

Is a Fluke 8020 worth having fixed? If so, anyone know of an outfit in
AU that can (hopefully) fix it?
---------------------

Jon replied suggesting possible condensation in the meter. I removed the
top and placed it in front of the heater. Tested the 9v battery after
about 20 minutes, it read 50+ volts, but then, began dropping, finally
settling at around 20 volts. After an hour, it read 20-some volts and
settled down to 9.9. So condensation appears to be at least part of the
problem.

Our house was built in probably the 30's, and who knows when the
additional rooms were added, but by US standards if insulation, the
additions are barely better than a bare stud wall in a garage. And it's
friggin cold here right now! I'd brought the meter in from the cold room
into the main living room, which was warm. Soon as the meter starts
reading a battery like I'd expect, I'll test the PS again.

I'd bought the 8020B maybe 10 years ago, well used. Thinking I ought to
maybe get a newer one. On eBay, I found many Fluke meters, looking at a
model 115, 233/A, and an 8060A. Want to stay right around $100, which
means used most likely. Any input on these models for someone that does
fairly basic electronics/electrical work? Or suggestions on other models?

Thanks,

Jon

On Fri, 16 May 2014 09:38:33 +1000, Jon Anderson
wrote:

Accidentally replied direct to Jon Elson, for anyone with possible
input, this was my response to him:

------------------
I'd thought maybe there was voltage, but not enough current to damage
anything. And I'd checked power with all but one drive plugged in, so
the PS was loaded.

Meter is a Fluke 8020 B, not some cheap auto-range. I'm no electronics
guru, but reasonably confident I know how to measure DC voltages. But to
prove I did it right, I went and checked the output of a wall wart.
Dang, a 13 volt supply was measuring over 200 volts! Then tried a 9 volt
battery, and it's showing 57 volts.

I was severely weight restricted in my move, just my checked luggage
cost $500 for extra bags and overweight. So I shipped some basic tools
via USPS. Looks like my Fluke didn't survive the trip despite being well
padded. I'll go buy an inexpensive meter and see what it says about the
power supply...

Is a Fluke 8020 worth having fixed? If so, anyone know of an outfit in
AU that can (hopefully) fix it?
---------------------

Jon replied suggesting possible condensation in the meter. I removed the
top and placed it in front of the heater. Tested the 9v battery after
about 20 minutes, it read 50+ volts, but then, began dropping, finally
settling at around 20 volts. After an hour, it read 20-some volts and
settled down to 9.9. So condensation appears to be at least part of the
problem.

Our house was built in probably the 30's, and who knows when the
additional rooms were added, but by US standards if insulation, the
additions are barely better than a bare stud wall in a garage. And it's
friggin cold here right now! I'd brought the meter in from the cold room
into the main living room, which was warm. Soon as the meter starts
reading a battery like I'd expect, I'll test the PS again.

I'd bought the 8020B maybe 10 years ago, well used. Thinking I ought to
maybe get a newer one. On eBay, I found many Fluke meters, looking at a
model 115, 233/A, and an 8060A. Want to stay right around $100, which
means used most likely. Any input on these models for someone that does
fairly basic electronics/electrical work? Or suggestions on other models?

Thanks,

Jon

Depends on if you want Tru-RMS or just regular plain jane readings

The 77s are good, as are the 23s etc. Surprisingly the T5-1000 is a
very handy meter as well. I keep several meters in the service truck,
including the T5-1000 which has been a good utility meter.
I probably have 7-9 Fluke meters. Most portable..a couple bench types
such as the 8600 etc etc. And a couple HP bench meters.

That being said..there are a large number of other meters that work
just as well as a Fluke, and are imported. And much...much cheaper.
Shrug. You are close to where they are made in the grand scheme of
things.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-LCD-...-/330874520833

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MS2008A-m...-/170622238358

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Auto-Powe...-/151133596763

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fluke-75-...-/301179186316

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/fluke-mul...-/191170689908

As you can see..Fluke sells "used" for a fair amount more money than
they do in the States. Ive got B&K and HP digital bench meters and a
bunch of others analog ones (Simpson 260/270s)..some as old as the
1930s.

Come to think of it..I probably have 2-3 of the 8020/8021 series. Ill
have to hunt around for them and see if any of them still work. Want
one..I can drop on in the mail for you after I check it out completely
and make sure its working properly. Chuckle..you might be able to
find some Royal Enfield/Indian Chief/ Super Meteor motorcycle parts
for me.

Hell..Ive even got a Simpson 467-E that works fine on the bench or in
the field. In a hard case.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Simpson-4...-/251520395456

Geeze!! They that good a meter or is that guy simply proud as hell of
it?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SIMPSON-M...-/290600339981


Need a bench meter? Got an HP on the shelf..3465A works like a
champ..but is AC only.

Gunner, making a note to do a meter inventory this weekend along with
a scope inventory..and wishing you had said something about needing
extra test equip before leaving the country.












--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...

I'd bought the 8020B maybe 10 years ago, well used. Thinking I ought
to maybe get a newer one. On eBay, I found many Fluke meters,
looking at a model 115, 233/A, and an 8060A. Want to stay right
around $100, which means used most likely. Any input on these models
for someone that does fairly basic electronics/electrical work? Or
suggestions on other models?

Thanks,

Jon

Although I have better 4-1/2 digit meters I usually grab a Harbor
Freight cheapie or this:
http://www.amazon.com/TekPower-TP400.../dp/B000OPDFLM

My dozen or so HF meters were all within 5 counts (50mV) at 12.00V
before I calibrated them closer with the internal pot. Their input
resistance is 1 Megohm, not the usual 10, so they load sensitive
circuits slightly and my variable-voltage insulation tester
excessively. The leads are fairly frail but repairable when they break
off inside the probe.

I bought some TP4000ZCs to use for multichannel energy datalogging.
They are decent auto-ranging general-purpose DVMs and they take AA
batteries so leaving them on for a few days while recording costs only
a visit to the charger, then I know they are fully charged and won't
quit during the next session. I haven't carefully checked the
calibration yet because they seemed close enough in casual use. The
thermocouple reading can be a few degrees off and seems to vary with
the meter's internal temperature, but a quick dip in slush to check
zero and a fudge factor in the spreadsheet takes care of the offset.
The program that displays and logs the readings includes a better
K-type correction curve than the meter itself.
jsw

On 2014-05-15, Jon Anderson wrote:
Accidentally replied direct to Jon Elson, for anyone with possible
input, this was my response to him:

------------------
I'd thought maybe there was voltage, but not enough current to damage
anything. And I'd checked power with all but one drive plugged in, so
the PS was loaded.

Meter is a Fluke 8020 B, not some cheap auto-range. I'm no electronics
guru, but reasonably confident I know how to measure DC voltages. But to
prove I did it right, I went and checked the output of a wall wart.
Dang, a 13 volt supply was measuring over 200 volts! Then tried a 9 volt
battery, and it's showing 57 volts.

Ouch! Certainly a problem with the meter.

Out of curiosity -- how old in the 9V battery which runs it? If
it gets too low, readings can be quite unpredictable.

And has there been any leakage in the battery compartment? If
so, has it reached the circuit boards? If so there, pull the battery,
open it up, wash with clean water several cycles (use an old toothbrush
to clean the areas where the leakage hit, then let it dry while opened
up. (This is more than just *visibly* dry. Your heat source mentioned
somewhere in this thread is a good idaa during the drying.) (Actually,
down later in this very article, but now snipped. :-)

IIRC, your model of Fluke has a piano-key switch running along
one edge. The slightly high on the 12V and the very high on the 5V
suggests that the leakage affected the circuitry related to the 0-10V
range, and that you used a different range for the 12V measurement. In
particular, look around the 10V switch to see whether there is any
contamination in there.

I was severely weight restricted in my move, just my checked luggage
cost $500 for extra bags and overweight. So I shipped some basic tools
via USPS. Looks like my Fluke didn't survive the trip despite being well
padded. I'll go buy an inexpensive meter and see what it says about the
power supply...

I'll bet that the power supply is fine. Your original post
suggested that there was more than one drive involved. Could it be that
they are connected to different interface cables than they were
originally, so it is trying to boot off a secondary drive? (Did you
*mark* which drive was which when disassembling and packing?)

Anyway -- try swapping the drives.

Is a Fluke 8020 worth having fixed? If so, anyone know of an outfit in
AU that can (hopefully) fix it?

It probably can be fixed by the wash and dry cycle described
above. If it were a problem with a bad LCD readout, you might have
difficulty finding one to match to replace it, but this is conductance
paths, not the LCD.

Just for the fun of it -- with the probes disconnected, does it
show a voltage measurement anyway?

And as another possibility -- are you by any chance fairly close
to a radio or TV transmitter? High levels of RFI can confuse these
meters.

[ ... ]

I'd bought the 8020B maybe 10 years ago, well used. Thinking I ought to
maybe get a newer one. On eBay, I found many Fluke meters, looking at a
model 115, 233/A, and an 8060A. Want to stay right around $100, which
means used most likely. Any input on these models for someone that does
fairly basic electronics/electrical work? Or suggestions on other models?

My own favorite meter (now obsolete) is the Fluke model 27. A
bit bigger than the Fluke 77 which I first had, but it has a lower
pitched beep which I can hear for continuity tests. The 77 I had to ask
my wife to repeat the beeps when she heard them. Too high pitched for
my ears. There is another (and less common) brother to it, the model 37
has the same features, but is more set up as a benchtop meter, and has a
storage compartment for the test leads and accessories behind the main
body. (The 27 is very well sealed for use in rain and the like, the 37
is more ventilated. :-) I have both. The 27 was bought new, the 37 from
eBay. Both are autoranging, and I have no problems from that, FWIW.

Among other things, both have a LCD bar graph to take the place
of a meter needle when tuning for a null or a peak. Pure digital
readout is a real pain for that.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 5/16/2014 11:24 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Out of curiosity -- how old in the 9V battery which runs it? If it
gets too low, readings can be quite unpredictable.
Brand new, outside of my pocket and DSLR cameras, I removed all
batteries before shipping. It's brand new.


And has there been any leakage in the battery compartment?
External dirt from typical handling, but the internals look nice and
clean, no corrosion visible anywhere.


IIRC, your model of Fluke has a piano-key switch running along one
edge. The slightly high on the 12V and the very high on the 5V
suggests that the leakage affected the circuitry related to the
0-10V range, and that you used a different range for the 12V
measurement. In particular, look around the 10V switch to see
whether there is any contamination in there.
Used same range for all measurements. The 20v range switch is now flaky
however, and won't always stay in. This was never a problem before the
move, and I don't know if it affects anything.

I'll bet that the power supply is fine.
The meter now reads nearly correct on a 9v battery now, but of course is
still highly suspect. Checking the PS again, I'm getting around 13vdc on
the 5v line and 6vdc on the 12v line. Bought a replacement and paying
the shipping, might as well use it!


Your original post suggested that there was more than one drive
involved. Could it be that they are connected to different interface
cables than they were originally, so it is trying to boot off a
secondary drive? (Did you *mark* which drive was which when
disassembling and packing?)
Only one ribbon cable for the HDDs and I marked which connector went to
which drive.


Just for the fun of it -- with the probes disconnected, does it show
a voltage measurement anyway?
Powers up and reads 0.00


And as another possibility -- are you by any chance fairly close to a
radio or TV transmitter? High levels of RFI can confuse these
meters.
Nah, nearest transmitter is probably a 40 minute drive. I'm really in
the sticks, this is sheep, wheat, and canola country.


My own favorite meter (now obsolete) is the Fluke model 27. A bit
bigger than the Fluke 77 which I first had, but it has a lower
pitched beep which I can hear for continuity tests.
The lower pitch would benefit me too, I'll add that one to my search
list. I'm sure some of the import stuff is good, but since I'm not up
snuff enough to diagnose issues, I prefer to pay for known quality meters.

Your in depth and thoughtful replies are always welcome and appreciated!

Jon

Hokay, big plate of egg on my face. I looked up the voltages on an IDE
drive's Molex connector. But between my laptop in the back room and the
computer out in the front room, I mixed up the 5 and 12 volt colors.
My Fluke still has issues, so I ran down to the auto parts and bought a
cheapo digital. Good enough for my needs. The PS is just fine. The HDD
are both fine, can read data via external dock. So appears somehow, the
motherboard has shat itself....

Jon

On 2014-05-16, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 5/16/2014 11:24 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Out of curiosity -- how old in the 9V battery which runs it? If it
gets too low, readings can be quite unpredictable.

Brand new, outside of my pocket and DSLR cameras, I removed all
batteries before shipping. It's brand new.

O.K. One thing eliminated. :-)

And has there been any leakage in the battery compartment?

External dirt from typical handling, but the internals look nice and
clean, no corrosion visible anywhere.

Great!

IIRC, your model of Fluke has a piano-key switch running along one
edge. The slightly high on the 12V and the very high on the 5V
suggests that the leakage affected the circuitry related to the
0-10V range, and that you used a different range for the 12V
measurement. In particular, look around the 10V switch to see
whether there is any contamination in there.

Used same range for all measurements. The 20v range switch is now flaky
however, and won't always stay in. This was never a problem before the
move, and I don't know if it affects anything.

O.K. Do you have access to a good contact cleaner spray?
Hitting the contacts with that and exercising the switch a few cycles
might clean up some oxidation. What used to be the best around was a
product called Cramolin. It was replaced by something from the some
company called De-Oxit, which did not smell nearly as nasty, and I still
have some of that for my use. Not sure whether it is still made,
however. Both of them came in a red and a blue version, but in reality,
this was just a ploy to make sure that people used them properly. You
were supposed to spritz with one, exercise the contacts to break oxide
films (both switches and bus connectors on some computers), and then
spritz with the other. This ensures that a fresh clean film of the
cleaner remains on the contacts to protect them.

I'll bet that the power supply is fine.

The meter now reads nearly correct on a 9v battery now, but of course is
still highly suspect. Checking the PS again, I'm getting around 13vdc on
the 5v line and 6vdc on the 12v line. Bought a replacement and paying
the shipping, might as well use it!

O.K. Good Luck, there.

Your original post suggested that there was more than one drive
involved. Could it be that they are connected to different interface
cables than they were originally, so it is trying to boot off a
secondary drive? (Did you *mark* which drive was which when
disassembling and packing?)

Only one ribbon cable for the HDDs and I marked which connector went to
which drive.

O.K. Another eliminated. Perhaps someone at customs fired it
up and perhaps attempting to find drives played with the BIOS settings?

Or, I guess, an electrolytic capacitor or two bulged from the
low air pressure in flight and dried out? Look at the on-end cans for
bulges in the flat tops. (Usually these will have a groove making a weak
point for it to split if the cap over-pressures from failure.

Just for the fun of it -- with the probes disconnected, does it show
a voltage measurement anyway?

Powers up and reads 0.00

O.K. So not a leak from other areas of the board donating
current to the reading.

And as another possibility -- are you by any chance fairly close to a
radio or TV transmitter? High levels of RFI can confuse these
meters.

Nah, nearest transmitter is probably a 40 minute drive. I'm really in
the sticks, this is sheep, wheat, and canola country.

O.K. Yet another thing eliminated.

My own favorite meter (now obsolete) is the Fluke model 27. A bit
bigger than the Fluke 77 which I first had, but it has a lower
pitched beep which I can hear for continuity tests.

The lower pitch would benefit me too, I'll add that one to my search
list. I'm sure some of the import stuff is good, but since I'm not up
snuff enough to diagnose issues, I prefer to pay for known quality meters.

O.K. Fluke is a good name -- but not cheap. :-)

Your in depth and thoughtful replies are always welcome and appreciated!

Thank you. I try, but so far I don't seem to have hit it for
your current (or voltage?) problem.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

IIRC, your model of Fluke has a piano-key switch running along
one edge. The slightly high on the 12V and the very high on the 5V
suggests that the leakage affected the circuitry related to the
0-10V
range, and that you used a different range for the 12V measurement.
In
particular, look around the 10V switch to see whether there is any
contamination in there.


I recently bought a Fluke 8060A for $10.99 that shows symptoms of
intermittent connections in the row of switches. Sometimes it's very
accurate, other times the reading is ridiculous. I bought some Deoxit
to try when the meter reaches the top of the fixit job stack. Firefox
for XP and lightning protection for my TV antenna have precedence.
-jsw

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
The lower pitch would benefit me too, I'll add that one to my search
list. I'm sure some of the import stuff is good, but since I'm not
up
snuff enough to diagnose issues, I prefer to pay for known quality
meters. Jon

I don't rely on the accuracy of the import meters I mentioned, I use
them for general portable troubleshooting and check them against
lab-quality Fluke and Keithley meters that I don't risk away from the
workbench, or for charging batteries or measuring power supply
current. The under-$5 HF meter is no great loss if dropped or fried.
Except for the test probes the two I use most have been reliable and
accurate enough for troubleshooting.

My ingrained habit is to stop and think twice before turning a meter
to the current or resistance scales. It's easy to forget the meter
setting when absorbed by the problem I'm trying to solve, twice as
easy if someone is watching.
jsw

Jon Anderson wrote:

Hokay, big plate of egg on my face. I looked up the voltages on an IDE
drive's Molex connector. But between my laptop in the back room and the
computer out in the front room, I mixed up the 5 and 12 volt colors.
My Fluke still has issues, so I ran down to the auto parts and bought a
cheapo digital. Good enough for my needs. The PS is just fine. The HDD
are both fine, can read data via external dock. So appears somehow, the
motherboard has shat itself....

Jon


Jon, do you have a spare data cable for the drives? I've seen more
than one that was bad.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 5/17/2014 2:01 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon, do you have a spare data cable for the drives? I've seen more
than one that was bad.

Hmm, never seen one go bad myself. Too bad I tossed probably a dozen of
them before I moved... I don't think that's it, as BIOS is also
reporting only one of the two DVD drives and calls it a CD-ROM.
But I'll see if I can get one in town, certainly worth a shot.

Thanks,

Jon

On 5/16/2014 10:07 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I recently bought a Fluke 8060A for $10.99 that shows symptoms of
intermittent connections in the row of switches. Sometimes it's very
accurate, other times the reading is ridiculous. I bought some Deoxit
to try when the meter reaches the top of the fixit job stack.

I'm thinking that this might be part of the problem with my Fluke, have
to see if I can find some Deoxit or similar and give it a shot.

I bought as cheap a meter as I could find locally, more than adequate to
test the PS, which turns out to be fine. Sounds like I need to find
some contact cleaner.

Jon

On Sat, 17 May 2014 07:57:07 +1000, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 5/17/2014 2:01 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon, do you have a spare data cable for the drives? I've seen more
than one that was bad.

Hmm, never seen one go bad myself. Too bad I tossed probably a dozen of
them before I moved... I don't think that's it, as BIOS is also
reporting only one of the two DVD drives and calls it a CD-ROM.
But I'll see if I can get one in town, certainly worth a shot.

Thanks,

Jon

Swap em and make sure that if they are IDE, one is set for master and
one for slave. And in older MOBOs...try to put a optical drive as a
slave to C: (E: and the second one as a Slave(F) to D (other hard
drive if you have 2 hard drives. If one of the config jumpers has
fallen out.,.it can make that drive invisible or in stone conflict.
Which most folks dont know or remember.

Which is one of the reasons (among seveal) they developed SATA...

My regular desk top puter has 4 hard drives, 2 DVD Read/write and 3
addtional USB drives..but I have a card that allows me to add
additonal IDE drives (up to 4 on the card..a Promise Tech card)..so I
couild run a total of 6 HDs and 2 opticals, plus the USB media.

I have a pretty decent power supply to run the drives...shrug.

Gunner



--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Fri, 16 May 2014 22:58:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2014 07:57:07 +1000, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 5/17/2014 2:01 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon, do you have a spare data cable for the drives? I've seen more
than one that was bad.

Hmm, never seen one go bad myself. Too bad I tossed probably a dozen of
them before I moved... I don't think that's it, as BIOS is also
reporting only one of the two DVD drives and calls it a CD-ROM.
But I'll see if I can get one in town, certainly worth a shot.

Thanks,

Jon

Swap em and make sure that if they are IDE, one is set for master and
one for slave. And in older MOBOs...try to put a optical drive as a
slave to C: (E: and the second one as a Slave(F) to D (other hard
drive if you have 2 hard drives. If one of the config jumpers has
fallen out.,.it can make that drive invisible or in stone conflict.
Which most folks dont know or remember.

Which is one of the reasons (among seveal) they developed SATA...

My regular desk top puter has 4 hard drives, 2 DVD Read/write and 3
addtional USB drives..but I have a card that allows me to add
additonal IDE drives (up to 4 on the card..a Promise Tech card)..so I
couild run a total of 6 HDs and 2 opticals, plus the USB media.

I have a pretty decent power supply to run the drives...shrug.

Gunner
The SIMPLE way is to set them all to CS (Cable Select) and mark
which one goes on the end of the cable so you know which one is the
master (when it matters)

On Saturday, May 17, 2014 8:24:14 AM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2014 22:58:33 -0700, Gunner Asch


Swap em and make sure that if they are IDE, one is set for master and
one for slave.

The SIMPLE way is to set them all to CS (Cable Select) and mark
which one goes on the end of the cable so you know which one is the
master (when it matters)

There are cables that support cable select (these have one blue,
one grey, and one black connector), and cables that don't.

The first recommendation above is nonstandard if used with a
modern, ultraATA, CS supporting cable.
When swapping cables around, the blue connector MUST be to the
logic board; the grey is for the slave, and black is the master.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 11:24:14 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 16 May 2014 22:58:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2014 07:57:07 +1000, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 5/17/2014 2:01 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon, do you have a spare data cable for the drives? I've seen more
than one that was bad.

Hmm, never seen one go bad myself. Too bad I tossed probably a dozen of
them before I moved... I don't think that's it, as BIOS is also
reporting only one of the two DVD drives and calls it a CD-ROM.
But I'll see if I can get one in town, certainly worth a shot.

Thanks,

Jon

Swap em and make sure that if they are IDE, one is set for master and
one for slave. And in older MOBOs...try to put a optical drive as a
slave to C: (E: and the second one as a Slave(F) to D (other hard
drive if you have 2 hard drives. If one of the config jumpers has
fallen out.,.it can make that drive invisible or in stone conflict.
Which most folks dont know or remember.

Which is one of the reasons (among seveal) they developed SATA...

My regular desk top puter has 4 hard drives, 2 DVD Read/write and 3
addtional USB drives..but I have a card that allows me to add
additonal IDE drives (up to 4 on the card..a Promise Tech card)..so I
couild run a total of 6 HDs and 2 opticals, plus the USB media.

I have a pretty decent power supply to run the drives...shrug.

Gunner
The SIMPLE way is to set them all to CS (Cable Select) and mark
which one goes on the end of the cable so you know which one is the
master (when it matters)

On many older mother boards, cable select was very very iffy...in my
experience.

Shrug


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Sat, 17 May 2014 12:05:31 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Saturday, May 17, 2014 8:24:14 AM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2014 22:58:33 -0700, Gunner Asch


Swap em and make sure that if they are IDE, one is set for master and
one for slave.

The SIMPLE way is to set them all to CS (Cable Select) and mark
which one goes on the end of the cable so you know which one is the
master (when it matters)

There are cables that support cable select (these have one blue,
one grey, and one black connector), and cables that don't.

The first recommendation above is nonstandard if used with a
modern, ultraATA, CS supporting cable.
When swapping cables around, the blue connector MUST be to the
logic board; the grey is for the slave, and black is the master.

The end connector is the slave, and pin 28 is not connected on the
slave connector for a CS compatible cable. So just cut #28 (counting
from the coloured side) and you have a CS cable. Most cables produced
in the last 15 or more years are CS compatible cables.

On Saturday, May 17, 2014 4:00:29 PM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 12:05:31 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd

wrote:



On Saturday, May 17, 2014 8:24:14 AM UTC-7, Clare wrote:

On Fri, 16 May 2014 22:58:33 -0700, Gunner Asch

Swap em and make sure that if they are IDE, one is set for master and
one for slave.

There are cables that support cable select (these have one blue,
one grey, and one black connector), and cables that don't.

...with a
modern, ultraATA, CS supporting cable.
When swapping cables around, the blue connector MUST be to the
logic board; the grey is for the slave, and black is the master.


The end connector is the slave, and pin 28 is not connected on the
slave connector for a CS compatible cable. So just cut #28 (counting
from the coloured side) and you have a CS cable.


Clearly, you're referring to 40-wire cables (UltraATA are 80wire
cables with 40-wire sockets). Those 40-wire cables are IDE; the
recent cables are all UltraATA, and are color-coded.

For UltraATA, the end connector must be the master (it's in the standard).
Regardless of the CS feature, UltraATA must be terminated at the
ends for signal-propogation integrity, and that means a
sole unit (master) on the bus must be on the end connector.