On 4/20/2014 7:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

In 2000, over 90% of the U.S. corn crop went to feed people and
livestock, many in undeveloped countries, with less than 5% used to
produce ethanol. In 2013, however, 40% went to produce ethanol, 45%
was used to feed livestock, and only 15% was used for food and
beverage (AgMRC).
....

What they're neglecting is the overall...

Between 2000/2001 MY (market year) and 2010/11, while total US
Food/Alcohol/Industrial use went from roughly 2000 MMBu to about 6000
MMBu, Feed and Residual use went from just under 6000 MMBu to 5000 MMBu
and total production went from 10000 to 13000 or almost that 40%
difference. Exports remained almost flat at 1,800-1,900 MMBu/yr.

So, IOW, there's no shortage of corn.

--

On 4/21/2014 8:18 AM, dpb wrote:
On 4/20/2014 7:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

In 2000, over 90% of the U.S. corn crop went to feed people and
livestock, ...


What, specifically, is "the U.S. corn crop"?

USDA figures for MY 2000/2001 show total production of 9915 MMBu w/
total "disappearance" (difference between ending stocks on hand at
beginning to ending of year, including all use plus wastage, loss in
transit, etc., etc., etc., ...) of 9740 MMBu. Food, alcohol &
industrial was 1958 while feed and residual was 5822. Thus including
all human food use as well as alcohol and industrial and animal feed and
residuals (everything, iow, excepting for seed) is only 78% of
production. IOW, we had a surplus of roughly 20% of the production,
some of which (about 10%) was accounted for by export.

So there's no way the above 90% is accurate w/o a very careful selection
of what is used for numerator and denominator.

In 2010/2011 things have shifted a little, certainly, but still just
under 90% of all annual production was consumed for everything excepting
seed and about 50% is in the food, alcohol and industrial category.

I don't have a finer breakdown at hand easily, but production can easily
outpace demand at the moment and would do so more even more rapidly if
demand were to continue to swell.

On the side note the earlier responder's comment on the
subsidy--that ended December a year ago and even when in effect it
didn't go to the alcohol producer or the grower, it went to the oil
companies/distributors--they're the "blenders" in the "blenders' credit".

--

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:18:29 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 4/20/2014 7:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

In 2000, over 90% of the U.S. corn crop went to feed people and
livestock, many in undeveloped countries, with less than 5% used to
produce ethanol. In 2013, however, 40% went to produce ethanol, 45%
was used to feed livestock, and only 15% was used for food and
beverage (AgMRC).
...

What they're neglecting is the overall...

Between 2000/2001 MY (market year) and 2010/11, while total US
Food/Alcohol/Industrial use went from roughly 2000 MMBu to about 6000
MMBu, Feed and Residual use went from just under 6000 MMBu to 5000 MMBu
and total production went from 10000 to 13000 or almost that 40%
difference. Exports remained almost flat at 1,800-1,900 MMBu/yr.

So, IOW, there's no shortage of corn.

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

And our corn exports to many other countries like Mexico were scaled
way the **** back. Sadly the price of corn and corn byproducts in
Mexico went through the ****ing roof. And much of Mexican daily diet
involves corn products.

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 4/21/2014 4:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:18:29 -0500, wrote:

On 4/20/2014 7:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

In 2000, over 90% of the U.S. corn crop went to feed people and
livestock, many in undeveloped countries, with less than 5% used to
produce ethanol. In 2013, however, 40% went to produce ethanol, 45%
was used to feed livestock, and only 15% was used for food and
beverage (AgMRC).
...

What they're neglecting is the overall...

Between 2000/2001 MY (market year) and 2010/11, while total US
Food/Alcohol/Industrial use went from roughly 2000 MMBu to about 6000
MMBu, Feed and Residual use went from just under 6000 MMBu to 5000 MMBu
and total production went from 10000 to 13000 or almost that 40%
difference. Exports remained almost flat at 1,800-1,900 MMBu/yr.

So, IOW, there's no shortage of corn.

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

And our corn exports to many other countries like Mexico were scaled
way the **** back. Sadly the price of corn and corn byproducts in
Mexico went through the ****ing roof. And much of Mexican daily diet
involves corn products.

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

....

I shouldn't but...

Nonsense and nonsense. Corn exports to Mexico are controlled mostly by
Mexican import policy -- they've really squeezed the door on their own
volition not because of any shortage to supply.

If you'll actually look at export numbers they're pretty much consistent
with the exception of last year, the drought year.

Again from USDA ERS Yearbook...

MY MMBu Exports
/90 2,028
/91 2,367
/92 1,727
/93 1,584
/94 1,663
/95 1,328
/96 2,177
/97 2,228
/98 1,797
/99 1,504
/00 1,984
/01 1,937
/02 1,941
/03 1,905
/04 1,588
/05 1,900
/06 1,818
/07 2,134
/08 2,125
/09 2,437
/10 1,849
/11 1,979
/12 1,830
/13 1,543

While some downward trend in -12 and -13, lots of that is owing to
China's rejection of GMO in another of their continuing/alternating snits.

World prices climbed for all commodities, not corn. It's owing to a
multitude of factors the most of which is energy input costs -- the high
price of crude and other derived inputs.

Look in more depth rather than the hysteria and the picture's far more
complicated than it seems (as is the case in most everything).

--

On 4/21/2014 6:41 PM, dpb wrote:
On 4/21/2014 4:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

....

U.S. Farmers Expect to Plant Record-High Soybean Acreage
Planting Intentions Surpass Historic Soybean Record by 4 Million
Acres, USDA Reports

WASHINGTON, March 31, 2014 –Producers surveyed across the United
States intend to plant an estimated 81.5 million acres of soybeans
in2014, up 6 percent from last year and an all-time record high, ...


Say what, again????

Again, you've got to look at the details and it helps to know something
about agriculture that most popular press reports lack. Low acreages
last year were owing almost completely to the extremely wet/late spring
in the major corn and bean parts of the US while continuing drought in
the High Plains hurt some winter wheat plantings...

But those are not issues having any thing whatsoever to do w/ corn
ethanol. Again, "correlation does not imply causation". Just because
ethanol production is up doesn't mean bean planting acreage is down
because of it.

--

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:41:44 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 4/21/2014 4:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:18:29 -0500, wrote:

On 4/20/2014 7:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

In 2000, over 90% of the U.S. corn crop went to feed people and
livestock, many in undeveloped countries, with less than 5% used to
produce ethanol. In 2013, however, 40% went to produce ethanol, 45%
was used to feed livestock, and only 15% was used for food and
beverage (AgMRC).
...

What they're neglecting is the overall...

Between 2000/2001 MY (market year) and 2010/11, while total US
Food/Alcohol/Industrial use went from roughly 2000 MMBu to about 6000
MMBu, Feed and Residual use went from just under 6000 MMBu to 5000 MMBu
and total production went from 10000 to 13000 or almost that 40%
difference. Exports remained almost flat at 1,800-1,900 MMBu/yr.

So, IOW, there's no shortage of corn.

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

And our corn exports to many other countries like Mexico were scaled
way the **** back. Sadly the price of corn and corn byproducts in
Mexico went through the ****ing roof. And much of Mexican daily diet
involves corn products.

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

...

I shouldn't but...

Nonsense and nonsense. Corn exports to Mexico are controlled mostly by
Mexican import policy -- they've really squeezed the door on their own
volition not because of any shortage to supply.

If you'll actually look at export numbers they're pretty much consistent
with the exception of last year, the drought year.

Again from USDA ERS Yearbook...

MY MMBu Exports
/90 2,028
/91 2,367
/92 1,727
/93 1,584
/94 1,663
/95 1,328
/96 2,177
/97 2,228
/98 1,797
/99 1,504
/00 1,984
/01 1,937
/02 1,941
/03 1,905
/04 1,588
/05 1,900
/06 1,818
/07 2,134
/08 2,125
/09 2,437
/10 1,849
/11 1,979
/12 1,830
/13 1,543

While some downward trend in -12 and -13, lots of that is owing to
China's rejection of GMO in another of their continuing/alternating snits.

World prices climbed for all commodities, not corn. It's owing to a
multitude of factors the most of which is energy input costs -- the high
price of crude and other derived inputs.

Look in more depth rather than the hysteria and the picture's far more
complicated than it seems (as is the case in most everything).

Really?

http://www.theecologist.org/trial_in...la_crisis.html
http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/world/200... d=print&_r=0
https://www.progressive.org/nafta-co...ls-immigration

Care for more?

Be glad to provide it to you..to help make you less ****ing ignorant
of the world around you.

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 19:19:51 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 4/21/2014 6:41 PM, dpb wrote:
On 4/21/2014 4:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

...

U.S. Farmers Expect to Plant Record-High Soybean Acreage
Planting Intentions Surpass Historic Soybean Record by 4 Million
Acres, USDA Reports

WASHINGTON, March 31, 2014 –Producers surveyed across the United
States intend to plant an estimated 81.5 million acres of soybeans
in2014, up 6 percent from last year and an all-time record high, ...


Say what, again????

Again, you've got to look at the details and it helps to know something
about agriculture that most popular press reports lack. Low acreages
last year were owing almost completely to the extremely wet/late spring
in the major corn and bean parts of the US while continuing drought in
the High Plains hurt some winter wheat plantings...

But those are not issues having any thing whatsoever to do w/ corn
ethanol. Again, "correlation does not imply causation". Just because
ethanol production is up doesn't mean bean planting acreage is down
because of it.

You didnt see me mentioning Soybeans. Seems like that was your ox to
slaughter.

But hey..its a nice try, Very nice.

Gunner
--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 20:35:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

Which is why I capitalized Green. Its hardly Green in anything more
than photos.

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On 4/21/2014 9:32 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 19:19:51 -0500, wrote:

On 4/21/2014 6:41 PM, dpb wrote:
On 4/21/2014 4:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

...

U.S. Farmers Expect to Plant Record-High Soybean Acreage
Planting Intentions Surpass Historic Soybean Record by 4 Million
Acres, USDA Reports

....

You didnt see me mentioning Soybeans. ....

You didn't many any specific crop. Soybeans are the most likely
sufferer in competing acreage as they're the one that most overlaps
production areas for predominant corn production.

What crops, specifically do you think are not being planted instead?

--

On 4/21/2014 9:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

http://www.theecologist.org/...

Be glad to provide it to you..to help make you less ****ing ignorant
of the world around you.
....

They're railing against the commodities speculators--I don't have any
problem with additional controls there, but that's not the same as
production limitations.

The export numbers are what they are and as shown are essentially
constant and Mexico national policy reimposed import quotas on white
corn amongst other products w/ the exception of NAFTA. Hence, US corn
is still as cheap as it is available. Can't do no better than that.

The competing side of the story is that if grain prices aren't at
break-even or better, global production will decrease in response there,
too. Farming is, after all, at the core a business just as any other.

--

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 01:07:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 20:35:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

Which is why I capitalized Green. Its hardly Green in anything more
than photos.

I can't figure out why our Gov't, in its majestic wisdom, continues to
subsidize it -after- reading the true stats on it. Which senators are
making millions from it and why are the other CONgresscritters going
along with the scam?

More of its wholesome goodness he

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/st...natures-enemy/
http://tinyurl.com/o6vy7n8 Forbes, ethanol worse than fracking.
http://wtop.com/index.php?nid=1035&sid=3497726

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

Larry Jaques on Mon, 21 Apr 2014
20:35:48 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

I'm for ending the corn subsidies - period. And that includes the
Sugar tariff.
The other day, was in the local Co-op, looking for lunch. Herself
is diabetic, which means "no sugar". Doesn't matter if it is 'high
fructose corn syrup" or "all organic dehydrated cane juice" - sugar is
sugar. One would think that an establishment claiming to be so
concerned with "healthy food" could actually produce some healthy
food.


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:31:09 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 4/21/2014 9:32 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 19:19:51 -0500, wrote:

On 4/21/2014 6:41 PM, dpb wrote:
On 4/21/2014 4:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

...

U.S. Farmers Expect to Plant Record-High Soybean Acreage
Planting Intentions Surpass Historic Soybean Record by 4 Million
Acres, USDA Reports

...

You didnt see me mentioning Soybeans. ....

You didn't many any specific crop. Soybeans are the most likely
sufferer in competing acreage as they're the one that most overlaps
production areas for predominant corn production.

What crops, specifically do you think are not being planted instead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_vs._fuel

http://ensia.com/voices/its-time-to-...s-corn-system/

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2026...when-it-bursts

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspe...and-tortillas/

"So which crops are being displaced by corn? Food crops, animal feed
crops, and cotton all have experienced declines. In fact, since 2003,
barley acreage has decreased 46.3 percent, oats 31.7 percent and
cotton 18.6 percent. Hence farmers are just responding to the
economics of corn. High gasoline prices drive ethanol prices up, and
high ethanol prices drive corn prices up.

If cattle feed lots, poultry producers and hog farmers have to pay
$5.40 per bushel for corn (the average price in 2010), is it
surprising that food prices are increasing? And with cotton acreage
decreasing by 18.6 percent, is it surprising that cotton prices went
up 86 percent over the last 12 months?

The bottom line is the food versus fuel issue is very real and it will
only get worse. To meet the 2022 mandate of 35 billion gallons of
biofuels using corn-based ethanol, crop land dedicated to corn will
have to increase from 88 million acres to 233 million acres. That
would increase the total crop land in the U.S. to 461 million acres,
which is highly unrealistic. The most U.S. crop land ever planted was
375 million acres, back in 1932."
--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:44:56 -0500, dpb wrote:

Hence, US corn
is still as cheap as it is available. Can't do no better than that.

"So which crops are being displaced by corn? Food crops, animal feed
crops, and cotton all have experienced declines. In fact, since 2003,
barley acreage has decreased 46.3 percent, oats 31.7 percent and
cotton 18.6 percent. Hence farmers are just responding to the
economics of corn. High gasoline prices drive ethanol prices up, and
high ethanol prices drive corn prices up.

If cattle feed lots, poultry producers and hog farmers have to pay
$5.40 per bushel for corn (the average price in 2010), is it
surprising that food prices are increasing? And with cotton acreage
decreasing by 18.6 percent, is it surprising that cotton prices went
up 86 percent over the last 12 months?

The bottom line is the food versus fuel issue is very real and it will
only get worse. To meet the 2022 mandate of 35 billion gallons of
biofuels using corn-based ethanol, crop land dedicated to corn will
have to increase from 88 million acres to 233 million acres. That
would increase the total crop land in the U.S. to 461 million acres,
which is highly unrealistic. The most U.S. crop land ever planted was
375 million acres, back in 1932."


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo



How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks on Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:26:20 -0400 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.


How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

In my case, running through a corn field in full tassel. I
swolded up like a poisoned pup.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 4/22/2014 12:37 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:31:09 -0500, wrote:
On 4/21/2014 9:32 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

U.S. Farmers Expect to Plant Record-High Soybean Acreage
Planting Intentions Surpass Historic Soybean Record by 4 Million
Acres, USDA Reports

...

You didnt see me mentioning Soybeans. ....

You didn't many any specific crop. Soybeans are the most likely
sufferer in competing acreage as they're the one that most overlaps
production areas for predominant corn production.

What crops, specifically do you think are not being planted instead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_vs._fuel
http://ensia.com/voices/its-time-to-...s-corn-system/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2026...when-it-bursts
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspe...and-tortillas/

"So which crops are being displaced by corn? Food crops, animal feed
crops, and cotton all have experienced declines. In fact, since 2003,
barley acreage has decreased 46.3 percent, oats 31.7 percent and
cotton 18.6 percent. ...

Oats, barley and the other small grains combined are only a fraction of
corn acreage. When you divide a smaller number as the denominator, of
course, the decreases as _percentages_ is inflated. Again one needs to
look more at the totals of production and usage. For one example, of
the oats in US, 5% is actual human food crop; the bulk is also feed.
Hence, it's nearly a wash as to which is which for much of the use.

So, they've not illustrated how much of the diversion is truly
significant in crop end use nor what is owing to other planting factors
other than purely price--as noted earlier, much of the reduced acreages
of the last few years are far more weather-driven than anything else.

And of the corn that goes to ethanol, roughly a third ends up as
feedstock, anyway, thru the distillers grains. Consequently, one can
effectively cut the amounts lost for alcohol from the feed category by a
third as it does, in essence, double-duty.

I'm sorta' ambivalent on ethanol as a major fuel source but I'm yet to
be convinced it's nearly as distorting as the petroleum, food
manufacturers and retailers and livestock feeders/packers would like to
make folks think. Much of the rhetoric has been funded by these various
trade and producers' organizations.

Grain production and farming in general was a very tough business for
quite a long time; I see no reason why there shouldn't be some period of
relative prosperity for the producers as well....

(BTW, we farm but corn is not one of our grain crops...we're all dryland
outside the corn belt)

--

On 4/22/2014 12:38 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:44:56 -0500, wrote:

Hence, US corn
is still as cheap as it is available. Can't do no better than that.

....

The bottom line is the food versus fuel issue is very real and it will
only get worse. To meet the 2022 mandate of 35 billion gallons of
biofuels using corn-based ethanol, crop land dedicated to corn will
have to increase from 88 million acres to 233 million acres. That
would increase the total crop land in the U.S. to 461 million acres,
which is highly unrealistic. The most U.S. crop land ever planted was
375 million acres, back in 1932."
....

A) Nothing says either 1) the 2022 mandate will stay in effect or, even
if does 2) that it has to be met by corn-based ethanol.

B) In 1932, average corn yield was roughly 25 bu/A; now it's routinely
150 on a national average. Good corn can easily be 250/A; the current
competition production record is 450 bu/A to give an idea of what upside
there may be.

C) Since the early 60s, the yield trend is roughly +2 bu/A/yr increase
in national average yields with no indication of any systematic
reduction in that linear trend. With the continued advent of genetics
and practices, there's no reason not to think that continued production
increases are on the horizon.

D) There's some 40 million acres of idle farm ground, a fair amount of
which is reasonably good crop ground. Dad put a great deal of our
ground into CRP (Conservation Reserve Program grass) as well as several
our neighbors of roughly the same age back in the early- to mid-90s when
they were either like he ready to retire or in some cases nearly broke
given the disastrous farm economy of the time. While not prime corn
ground, certainly it could go back into production as it was for the 70
to 80 years prior to that...it does well in winter wheat, milo (grain
sorghum), canola, and a number of other crops. We're still farming what
wasn't put in but just in this very small local area just around our
place there's some 10,000 A that's been out of production for going on
30 yr. Out of that I'd say only about 1000 A or so would not be
suitable to be broken out. But, even yet, the economics just aren't
that good that there's no major stampede to do so and I doubt in my
lifetime I'll ever increase our current production acres given present
age and the capital costs in expanding equipment, etc., that would be
required.

So, all in all, I'm not terribly worried about the pseudo debate...I
don't think it's really real in real shortages being at all likely.

--

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:26:20 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

Not odd any more. They've been putting it in so many things, people
are developing corn allergies all over the place. Googlit.

I discovered mine by paying attention, just sleuthing out what I was
eating the day before I started hurting all over. Coffee, sugar, and
nightshade plants (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, chiles, and peppers)
are the others. I found the nightshade allergy about 25 years ago when
dating a girl whose mom was studying to become a Naturopath in
California. She muscle tested it (kinesiology) and when I stopped
eating most of those foods, I started feeling ten years younger and
3/4 of my arthritis pain stopped. It sobered me up in a hurry.

Since then, I've found the coffee allergy (brief shooting nerve pain
and muscle aches, mostly shoulders, arms, and hands) It gets me if I
drink as much as one cup a day for several days. 2 cups in one day
with none consumed in the following week is OK, too.

Tomato and chile symptoms: full body ache, muscles and joints,
probably from the acidification they cause. I've never completely
stayed away from either of these so they're still with me in spades.
8-12 hour delay from ingestion. I still love Mexican food, but I can
no longer eat any at dinner. Breakfast and lunch are semi-OK, but
dinner kills me if I eat anything hot with good, spicy salsa on it.
Chiles affect my wrists and ankles most, with weakness and pain.

Potatoes caused achy intestines/colon. I started being able to eat
these again a year or two ago, in moderation. 12-16 hour delay.

Bell peppers give me indigestion and body aches for a couple days
after one meal containing them. Nasty things. I don't eat them.

Eggplant never caused noticeable distress, and I can eat it again
today after pretty much shunning it for 25 years.

Corn was related to sugar ingestion and caused my patellar tendinitis.
Within three days of cutting the majority of corn out of my diet, my
knees were completely strong and pain free again. Blew me away.

Sugar consumption gives me general weakness in my muscles. It hurts
to work hard after eating desserts all the time. I switched to fake
sugars and they don't cause the problem at all.


I'd be willing to bet that well over half the maladies which cause
people consult doctors are caused by food allergies. Both doctors and
patients are completely unaware of these, too, amazingly enough. With
the price of health care, I'm surprised no insurance companies demand
food allergy testing. It would save them trillions of dollars.

As Justin Wilson said, HooEee, ah gare-on-TEE!


--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On 4/23/2014 1:20 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks on Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:26:20 -0400 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.


How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

In my case, running through a corn field in full tassel. I
swolded up like a poisoned pup.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."


NOT fun!

On 4/24/2014 12:02 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:26:20 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

Not odd any more. They've been putting it in so many things, people
are developing corn allergies all over the place. Googlit.

I discovered mine by paying attention, just sleuthing out what I was
eating the day before I started hurting all over. Coffee, sugar, and
nightshade plants (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, chiles, and peppers)
are the others. I found the nightshade allergy about 25 years ago when
dating a girl whose mom was studying to become a Naturopath in
California. She muscle tested it (kinesiology) and when I stopped
eating most of those foods, I started feeling ten years younger and
3/4 of my arthritis pain stopped. It sobered me up in a hurry.

Since then, I've found the coffee allergy (brief shooting nerve pain
and muscle aches, mostly shoulders, arms, and hands) It gets me if I
drink as much as one cup a day for several days. 2 cups in one day
with none consumed in the following week is OK, too.

Tomato and chile symptoms: full body ache, muscles and joints,
probably from the acidification they cause. I've never completely
stayed away from either of these so they're still with me in spades.
8-12 hour delay from ingestion. I still love Mexican food, but I can
no longer eat any at dinner. Breakfast and lunch are semi-OK, but
dinner kills me if I eat anything hot with good, spicy salsa on it.
Chiles affect my wrists and ankles most, with weakness and pain.

Potatoes caused achy intestines/colon. I started being able to eat
these again a year or two ago, in moderation. 12-16 hour delay.

Bell peppers give me indigestion and body aches for a couple days
after one meal containing them. Nasty things. I don't eat them.

Eggplant never caused noticeable distress, and I can eat it again
today after pretty much shunning it for 25 years.

Corn was related to sugar ingestion and caused my patellar tendinitis.
Within three days of cutting the majority of corn out of my diet, my
knees were completely strong and pain free again. Blew me away.

Sugar consumption gives me general weakness in my muscles. It hurts
to work hard after eating desserts all the time. I switched to fake
sugars and they don't cause the problem at all.


I'd be willing to bet that well over half the maladies which cause
people consult doctors are caused by food allergies. Both doctors and
patients are completely unaware of these, too, amazingly enough. With
the price of health care, I'm surprised no insurance companies demand
food allergy testing. It would save them trillions of dollars.

As Justin Wilson said, HooEee, ah gare-on-TEE!


--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo



You're a MESS! I empathize with you a little though, certain pollens in
the spring and others in the fall get me stuffed-up and in need of a
rescue inhaler and I don't tolerate artificial sweeteners.

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:46:12 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/24/2014 12:02 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:26:20 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

Not odd any more. They've been putting it in so many things, people
are developing corn allergies all over the place. Googlit.

I discovered mine by paying attention, just sleuthing out what I was
eating the day before I started hurting all over. Coffee, sugar, and
nightshade plants (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, chiles, and peppers)
are the others. I found the nightshade allergy about 25 years ago when
dating a girl whose mom was studying to become a Naturopath in
California. She muscle tested it (kinesiology) and when I stopped
eating most of those foods, I started feeling ten years younger and
3/4 of my arthritis pain stopped. It sobered me up in a hurry.

Since then, I've found the coffee allergy (brief shooting nerve pain
and muscle aches, mostly shoulders, arms, and hands) It gets me if I
drink as much as one cup a day for several days. 2 cups in one day
with none consumed in the following week is OK, too.

Tomato and chile symptoms: full body ache, muscles and joints,
probably from the acidification they cause. I've never completely
stayed away from either of these so they're still with me in spades.
8-12 hour delay from ingestion. I still love Mexican food, but I can
no longer eat any at dinner. Breakfast and lunch are semi-OK, but
dinner kills me if I eat anything hot with good, spicy salsa on it.
Chiles affect my wrists and ankles most, with weakness and pain.

Potatoes caused achy intestines/colon. I started being able to eat
these again a year or two ago, in moderation. 12-16 hour delay.

Bell peppers give me indigestion and body aches for a couple days
after one meal containing them. Nasty things. I don't eat them.

Eggplant never caused noticeable distress, and I can eat it again
today after pretty much shunning it for 25 years.

Corn was related to sugar ingestion and caused my patellar tendinitis.
Within three days of cutting the majority of corn out of my diet, my
knees were completely strong and pain free again. Blew me away.

Sugar consumption gives me general weakness in my muscles. It hurts
to work hard after eating desserts all the time. I switched to fake
sugars and they don't cause the problem at all.


I'd be willing to bet that well over half the maladies which cause
people consult doctors are caused by food allergies. Both doctors and
patients are completely unaware of these, too, amazingly enough. With
the price of health care, I'm surprised no insurance companies demand
food allergy testing. It would save them trillions of dollars.

As Justin Wilson said, HooEee, ah gare-on-TEE!


You're a MESS!

Nah! g It's semi-dysfunctional, not life-threatening. And now that
I have them spotted and avoid them, it's no big deal. But I'm in good
shape, compared to most people my age. Really good shape. I walk at
least a mile a day on most days, and hike when I can. How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school? 'Course, my shape has changed a bit. (No 6-pack abs like when
I was on the swim team.


I empathize with you a little though, certain pollens in
the spring and others in the fall get me stuffed-up and in need of a
rescue inhaler and I don't tolerate artificial sweeteners.

I had horrible allergies in AR growing up, and missed weeks of school
per year to them. Moving to CA, the allergies dropped by 60%. Now
that I'm in OR, they're down to maybe 10% of what I once suffered.
I'm in good shape up here.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

Gunner Asch wrote:
almost flat at 1,800-1,900 MMBu/yr.

So, IOW, there's no shortage of corn.

However..there has been a shortage of other crops as they were not
planted to make room for corn. Thats quite factual and feel free to
look it up.

There are fewer acres planted in corn today than there were 60 years ago.


And our corn exports to many other countries like Mexico were scaled
way the **** back. Sadly the price of corn and corn byproducts in
Mexico went through the ****ing roof. And much of Mexican daily diet
involves corn products.

That is all due to the evil uses corn was put to
before it was used for ethanol.

Before NAFTA the US shipped no corn to Mexico.
Mexican farmers grew all the corn the country needed.
After NAFTA the US dumped enormous quantities of
Taxpayer subsidized corn on the Mexican market.
That bankrupted all the corn farmers in Mexico.
They lost their land and now that price is back to
where the corn farmer could make a living, there
are no corn farmers. Most of them were forced off
their land and many are now illegal immigrants in
the US
You want to go back to the days when the US was about
destroying third world economies and propping up despotic
dictators.

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.


You didn't care much about the poor starving when their
livelihood was being destroyed. The amount of starvation
caused by US grain exports to countries where most of the
people make a living growing grain has been extraordinary.
There was only one evil purpose in these exports - to destroy
the lives of people. There was never a cvare about feeding anyone.

John Foster Dulles explained the policy clearly in
the early 50's. The intent of the US grain give-aways
always has been to create new markets for US agriculture.
That of course meant putting the existing producers out
of business. JFK didn't much like the purpose framed
so blatantly so he renamed the program "Food for Peace",
but the evil intent and effect still remained.






---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:26:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school?

Gunner, raises his hand.

210 on graduation from High school, 205 today, 40+ yrs later

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On 4/24/2014 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:46:12 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/24/2014 12:02 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:26:20 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/21/2014 11:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 14:30:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

--much snippage--

So those that were pushing corn for fuel were literally starving the
poor in Mexico and other countries..simply out of greed and Green.

"Green" my ASS! It's a bummer for poor folks everywhere, though. I'm
somewhat allergic to corn now, and I'm having a helluva time trying to
find things NOT made with it. It's getting tougher.

How did you find out you were allergic to corn? What an odd allergy,
isn't it?

Not odd any more. They've been putting it in so many things, people
are developing corn allergies all over the place. Googlit.

I discovered mine by paying attention, just sleuthing out what I was
eating the day before I started hurting all over. Coffee, sugar, and
nightshade plants (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, chiles, and peppers)
are the others. I found the nightshade allergy about 25 years ago when
dating a girl whose mom was studying to become a Naturopath in
California. She muscle tested it (kinesiology) and when I stopped
eating most of those foods, I started feeling ten years younger and
3/4 of my arthritis pain stopped. It sobered me up in a hurry.

Since then, I've found the coffee allergy (brief shooting nerve pain
and muscle aches, mostly shoulders, arms, and hands) It gets me if I
drink as much as one cup a day for several days. 2 cups in one day
with none consumed in the following week is OK, too.

Tomato and chile symptoms: full body ache, muscles and joints,
probably from the acidification they cause. I've never completely
stayed away from either of these so they're still with me in spades.
8-12 hour delay from ingestion. I still love Mexican food, but I can
no longer eat any at dinner. Breakfast and lunch are semi-OK, but
dinner kills me if I eat anything hot with good, spicy salsa on it.
Chiles affect my wrists and ankles most, with weakness and pain.

Potatoes caused achy intestines/colon. I started being able to eat
these again a year or two ago, in moderation. 12-16 hour delay.

Bell peppers give me indigestion and body aches for a couple days
after one meal containing them. Nasty things. I don't eat them.

Eggplant never caused noticeable distress, and I can eat it again
today after pretty much shunning it for 25 years.

Corn was related to sugar ingestion and caused my patellar tendinitis.
Within three days of cutting the majority of corn out of my diet, my
knees were completely strong and pain free again. Blew me away.

Sugar consumption gives me general weakness in my muscles. It hurts
to work hard after eating desserts all the time. I switched to fake
sugars and they don't cause the problem at all.


I'd be willing to bet that well over half the maladies which cause
people consult doctors are caused by food allergies. Both doctors and
patients are completely unaware of these, too, amazingly enough. With
the price of health care, I'm surprised no insurance companies demand
food allergy testing. It would save them trillions of dollars.

As Justin Wilson said, HooEee, ah gare-on-TEE!


You're a MESS!

Nah! g It's semi-dysfunctional, not life-threatening. And now that
I have them spotted and avoid them, it's no big deal. But I'm in good
shape, compared to most people my age. Really good shape. I walk at
least a mile a day on most days, and hike when I can. How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school? 'Course, my shape has changed a bit. (No 6-pack abs like when
I was on the swim team.


I empathize with you a little though, certain pollens in
the spring and others in the fall get me stuffed-up and in need of a
rescue inhaler and I don't tolerate artificial sweeteners.

I had horrible allergies in AR growing up, and missed weeks of school
per year to them. Moving to CA, the allergies dropped by 60%. Now
that I'm in OR, they're down to maybe 10% of what I once suffered.
I'm in good shape up here.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo



Swimming is such a great activity, do you still swim?

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 11:58:51 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:26:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school?

Gunner, raises his hand.

210 on graduation from High school, 205 today, 40+ yrs later

No fair! You've been starving. ;/

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:25:03 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/24/2014 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:46:12 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

You're a MESS!

Nah! g It's semi-dysfunctional, not life-threatening. And now that
I have them spotted and avoid them, it's no big deal. But I'm in good
shape, compared to most people my age. Really good shape. I walk at
least a mile a day on most days, and hike when I can. How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school? 'Course, my shape has changed a bit. (No 6-pack abs like when
I was on the swim team.


Swimming is such a great activity, do you still swim?

No, not much at all. The Rogue River is too cold, and only during the
heat of summer is the Applegate comfortable to swim in. My last
girlfriend had a place on the Applegate, but that's over, so my fave
swimhole is gone. kaff

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 08:45:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 11:58:51 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:26:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school?

Gunner, raises his hand.

210 on graduation from High school, 205 today, 40+ yrs later

No fair! You've been starving. ;/

Only a little. Even in the glory days I weighed about that much. I
tend to watch what I eat, and how I eat it, and stay busy doing active
stuff.


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On 4/24/2014 1:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:26:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school?

Gunner, raises his hand.

210 on graduation from High school, 205 today, 40+ yrs later
....

165 then, 150+/- now (+50 yr)

I don't work out or play organized athletics now as then...

--

On 4/25/2014 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:25:03 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/24/2014 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:46:12 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

You're a MESS!

Nah! g It's semi-dysfunctional, not life-threatening. And now that
I have them spotted and avoid them, it's no big deal. But I'm in good
shape, compared to most people my age. Really good shape. I walk at
least a mile a day on most days, and hike when I can. How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school? 'Course, my shape has changed a bit. (No 6-pack abs like when
I was on the swim team.


Swimming is such a great activity, do you still swim?

No, not much at all. The Rogue River is too cold, and only during the
heat of summer is the Applegate comfortable to swim in. My last
girlfriend had a place on the Applegate, but that's over, so my fave
swimhole is gone. kaff

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo



There's a marvelous new invention out there...a swimming pool, kinda'
like a man-made lake only smaller and fits in a back yard.

On 4/28/2014 10:37 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
....

There's a marvelous new invention out there...a swimming pool, kinda'
like a man-made lake only smaller and fits in a back yard.

Oh, the cement pond...

--

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:37:42 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/25/2014 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:25:03 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/24/2014 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:46:12 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

You're a MESS!

Nah! g It's semi-dysfunctional, not life-threatening. And now that
I have them spotted and avoid them, it's no big deal. But I'm in good
shape, compared to most people my age. Really good shape. I walk at
least a mile a day on most days, and hike when I can. How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school? 'Course, my shape has changed a bit. (No 6-pack abs like when
I was on the swim team.


Swimming is such a great activity, do you still swim?

No, not much at all. The Rogue River is too cold, and only during the
heat of summer is the Applegate comfortable to swim in. My last
girlfriend had a place on the Applegate, but that's over, so my fave
swimhole is gone. kaff

There's a marvelous new invention out there...a swimming pool, kinda'
like a man-made lake only smaller and fits in a back yard.

And for only $20k, you can have one, too! I'm only $20k short.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

On 4/29/2014 12:02 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:37:42 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/25/2014 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:25:03 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 4/24/2014 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:46:12 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

You're a MESS!

Nah! g It's semi-dysfunctional, not life-threatening. And now that
I have them spotted and avoid them, it's no big deal. But I'm in good
shape, compared to most people my age. Really good shape. I walk at
least a mile a day on most days, and hike when I can. How many 60 y/o
guys do you know who are only 13 pounds heavier than they were in high
school? 'Course, my shape has changed a bit. (No 6-pack abs like when
I was on the swim team.


Swimming is such a great activity, do you still swim?

No, not much at all. The Rogue River is too cold, and only during the
heat of summer is the Applegate comfortable to swim in. My last
girlfriend had a place on the Applegate, but that's over, so my fave
swimhole is gone. kaff

There's a marvelous new invention out there...a swimming pool, kinda'
like a man-made lake only smaller and fits in a back yard.

And for only $20k, you can have one, too! I'm only $20k short.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke



Why didn't you say so, check's in the mail!