The width is 60 feet and the height is 20 feet in the center .. The load
will be spanned 2 feet in the top center of the arch. If tube is not bent
, it can be welded every 10 feet of the arch and a piece of flat strap
welded to butt welded joint to strengthen to joint. We are actually trying
to support something 2 feet wide by 30 feet long weighing 1300 pounds. The
arched tubing will be fastened to a roof above which will not allow it to
shift. I want to support the 1300 pound weight sitting on the arched steel
roof above. The arched steel roof already exists, I just want to add
arched steel support underneath. I do not want to use any of existing roof
to support weight because I want to maintain prior engineered snow loads.
I can bolt into roof to reduce shifting The roof is 18 gauge steel, int
the shape of described arch. The base if the new support arch of 2"x6" ?
Square tubing can be anchored in to cement at ends by use of steel plating
and anchor bolts.

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On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 17:18:02 +0000, Joe
wrote:

The width is 60 feet and the height is 20 feet in the center .. The load
will be spanned 2 feet in the top center of the arch. If tube is not bent
, it can be welded every 10 feet of the arch and a piece of flat strap
welded to butt welded joint to strengthen to joint. We are actually trying
to support something 2 feet wide by 30 feet long weighing 1300 pounds. The
arched tubing will be fastened to a roof above which will not allow it to
shift. I want to support the 1300 pound weight sitting on the arched steel
roof above. The arched steel roof already exists, I just want to add
arched steel support underneath. I do not want to use any of existing roof
to support weight because I want to maintain prior engineered snow loads.
I can bolt into roof to reduce shifting The roof is 18 gauge steel, int
the shape of described arch. The base if the new support arch of 2"x6" ?
Square tubing can be anchored in to cement at ends by use of steel plating
and anchor bolts.
You say the load is 30 feet long, supported every two feet. So, if the
load is uniform, it will be supported in 15 or 16 places. If we assume
15 places then each arch of the building will need to support 86.67
pounds. My steel arch building, which I think is similar to yours, is
rated for 70 pounds per square foot snow load. However, your building
is twice as wide as mine and two feet taller. What is you building
rated for? Do you get that much snow? Since I never get more than 8
inches of wet snow I would not hesitate to put that type of load on my
building if I needed to.
ERS

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On Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:18:02 PM UTC-4, Joe wrote:
The width is 60 feet and the height is 20 feet in the center ..

I am confused. How many arches are you planning on having? One, two, or many?

Two thoughts: One is can you support it by the roof and when it snows , lower it to the ground. The second is that it would take less steel if you figured out how to beef up the roof.

Dan

"Joe" wrote in
message roups.com...
The width is 60 feet and the height is 20 feet in the center .. The
load
will be spanned 2 feet in the top center of the arch. If tube is
not bent
, it can be welded every 10 feet of the arch and a piece of flat
strap
welded to butt welded joint to strengthen to joint. We are actually
trying
to support something 2 feet wide by 30 feet long weighing 1300
pounds. The
arched tubing will be fastened to a roof above which will not allow
it to
shift. I want to support the 1300 pound weight sitting on the arched
steel
roof above. The arched steel roof already exists, I just want to add
arched steel support underneath. I do not want to use any of
existing roof
to support weight because I want to maintain prior engineered snow
loads.
I can bolt into roof to reduce shifting The roof is 18 gauge steel,
int
the shape of described arch. The base if the new support arch of
2"x6" ?
Square tubing can be anchored in to cement at ends by use of steel
plating
and anchor bolts.


To narrow your search, look into truss design and column buckling
strength, the "column" being the long truss components.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckling

replying to etpm , Joe Farmer wrote:
etpm wrote:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 17:18:02 +0000, Joe
You say the load is 30 feet long, supported every two feet. So, if the
load is uniform, it will be supported in 15 or 16 places. If we assume
15 places then each arch of the building will need to support 86.67
pounds. My steel arch building, which I think is similar to yours, is
rated for 70 pounds per square foot snow load. However, your building
is twice as wide as mine and two feet taller. What is you building
rated for? Do you get that much snow? Since I never get more than 8
inches of wet snow I would not hesitate to put that type of load on my
building if I needed to.
ERS



Sorry , I didn't give the right amount of load. The load is 600 pounds in
30 feet. The building roof I'm trying to support is made by
AmericanSteelSpan. What I'm supporting is a conveyer for grain , being set
on top of the roof. The roof is designed to support 37# /foot snow load. I
don't want to steal from that in case I have alot of snow sometime. I hope
I'm not confusing things , but what I'm supporting is the CONVEYER on top
of the roof. I mentioned the conveyer weighs 600 # and is 30 feet long. It
is actually 60 feet long and 1200 #, but I was planning on putting up 2 of
the arches of 2"x6"x1/8" wall arches directly underneath the roof.

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replying to , Joe Farmer wrote:
dcaster wrote:

I am confused. How many arches are you planning on having? One, two, or
many?
Two thoughts: One is can you support it by the roof and when it snows ,
lower it to the ground. The second is that it would take less steel if you
figured out how to beef up the roof.
Dan


the load actually is 1200# in 60 feet. I was planning on using 2 of the
arches made of the 2x6 material. I thought if I could out how much weight
the 2x6 material would support, then I could figure out if two were
enough. I may have to switch material? The conveyer on the roof cannot be
lowered in the winter. I need it's use year around. The conveyor will be
bolted to the roof. Again if I could find out how much weight the tubing
in that arch could support , it could help alot.


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On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:19:03 +0000, Joe Farmer
wrote:

replying to , Joe Farmer wrote:
dcaster wrote:

I am confused. How many arches are you planning on having? One, two, or
many?
Two thoughts: One is can you support it by the roof and when it snows ,
lower it to the ground. The second is that it would take less steel if you
figured out how to beef up the roof.
Dan


the load actually is 1200# in 60 feet. I was planning on using 2 of the
arches made of the 2x6 material. I thought if I could out how much weight
the 2x6 material would support, then I could figure out if two were
enough. I may have to switch material? The conveyer on the roof cannot be
lowered in the winter. I need it's use year around. The conveyor will be
bolted to the roof. Again if I could find out how much weight the tubing
in that arch could support , it could help alot.
Greetings Joe,
It depends on which way the 2 x 6 tubing is loaded. If the tubing is
loaded on the 2 inch wide direction it will be 27 times stiffer that
putting the load across the 6 inch dimension. Which way are you going
to use and how much deflection can you tolerate?
Eric

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"Joe Farmer" wrote
in message
oups.com...
replying to , Joe Farmer wrote:
dcaster wrote:

I am confused. How many arches are you planning on having? One,
two, or
many?
Two thoughts: One is can you support it by the roof and when it
snows ,
lower it to the ground. The second is that it would take less steel
if you
figured out how to beef up the roof.
Dan


the load actually is 1200# in 60 feet. I was planning on using 2 of
the
arches made of the 2x6 material. I thought if I could out how much
weight
the 2x6 material would support, then I could figure out if two were
enough. I may have to switch material? The conveyer on the roof
cannot be
lowered in the winter. I need it's use year around. The conveyor
will be
bolted to the roof. Again if I could find out how much weight the
tubing
in that arch could support , it could help alot.

You could measure the deflection by hanging pallets of weighed
sandbags from the arches, but that won't tell you the margin to
failure from snow and wind loads.

Ask Joe Trussmaker to evaluate your problem.
http://www.midwestmanufacturing.com/...oductTypeId=17

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 12:18:02 PM UTC-4, Joe Farmer wrote:


Sorry , I didn't give the right amount of load. The load is 600 pounds in

30 feet. The building roof I'm trying to support is made by

AmericanSteelSpan. What I'm supporting is a conveyer for grain , being set

on top of the roof. The roof is designed to support 37# /foot snow load. I

don't want to steal from that in case I have alot of snow sometime. I hope

I'm not confusing things , but what I'm supporting is the CONVEYER on top

of the roof. I mentioned the conveyer weighs 600 # and is 30 feet long. It

is actually 60 feet long and 1200 #, but I was planning on putting up 2 of

the arches of 2"x6"x1/8" wall arches directly underneath the roof.



You need to add the weight of the grain on the conveyor to get the total weight.

I would contact AmericanSteelSpan and see if they have any suggestions. They might have run into this same situation before. I am not a mechanical engineer, but I would think that adding to the building supports would be the best solution. Maybe AmericanSteelSpan has a way to increase the buildings snow load capability.

Dan

replying to etpm , Joe Farmer wrote:
etpm wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:19:03 +0000, Joe Farmer
Greetings Joe,
It depends on which way the 2 x 6 tubing is loaded. If the tubing is
loaded on the 2 inch wide direction it will be 27 times stiffer that
putting the load across the 6 inch dimension. Which way are you going
to use and how much deflection can you tolerate?
Eric
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I'm loading it on the 2" side . The number of arches can be decided when I
find out how much one will support. The building is an arch building 60' x
150' long. The arches are in a 60' span.


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replying to etpm , Joe wrote:
etpm wrote:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 17:18:02 +0000, Joe
You say the load is 30 feet long, supported every two feet. So, if the
load is uniform, it will be supported in 15 or 16 places. If we assume
15 places then each arch of the building will need to support 86.67
pounds. My steel arch building, which I think is similar to yours, is
rated for 70 pounds per square foot snow load. However, your building
is twice as wide as mine and two feet taller. What is you building
rated for? Do you get that much snow? Since I never get more than 8
inches of wet snow I would not hesitate to put that type of load on my
building if I needed to.
ERS
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I made a correction in another post , but my real load is 600# in 30' or
1200# in 60'.
What I really need to know is how much load will a 2"x6"x1/8" wall tubing
carry in an arch of 60' wide by 20' high at the center of the arch.

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replying to , Joe wrote:
dcaster wrote:

t
I
e
t
f
You need to add the weight of the grain on the conveyor to get the total
we
ight.
I would contact AmericanSteelSpan and see if they have any suggestions.
Th
ey might have run into this same situation before. I am not a mechanical
e
ngineer, but I would think that adding to the building supports would be
th
e best solution. Maybe AmericanSteelSpan has a way to increase the
buildin
gs snow load capability.
Dan


I used them in the past and the building failed. I don't trust their
opinion alone.
If I know how much the 2'x6'x1/8' wall carries in an arch 60'wide x20'
high in the center of the arch , That may solve my problem.

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"Joe" wrote in
message roups.com...
replying to , Joe wrote:
dcaster wrote:
...
Maybe AmericanSteelSpan has a way to increase the buildings . snow
load capability
Dan


I used them in the past and the building failed. I don't trust their
opinion alone. If I know how much the 2'x6'x1/8' wall carries in an
arch 60'wide x20'
high in the center of the arch , That may solve my problem.

Even if a stranger on the Net was willing to risk a lawsuit by
calculating the safe load capacity for you for free, it may not be
possible to determine without knowing details like the exact design of
the joints between arch sections, how well they are cross-braced
against buckling, the properties of the steel used to make it and if
ill-advised bending into arches weakens it. And then, if it was
properly assembled on a foundation that can resist the downward and
spreading loads.

"Commercial Steel" doesn't indicate much yield strength, consistency
or quality control:
http://www.mcneilus.com/products/sheet.html
http://www.materialgrades.com/a-653a...teels-120.html

How did the other one fail, in tension, compression, shear or
buckling?

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Americ...L-MORE--718071

On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:18:02 +0000, Joe Farmer
wrote:

replying to etpm , Joe Farmer wrote:
etpm wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:19:03 +0000, Joe Farmer
Greetings Joe,
It depends on which way the 2 x 6 tubing is loaded. If the tubing is
loaded on the 2 inch wide direction it will be 27 times stiffer that
putting the load across the 6 inch dimension. Which way are you going
to use and how much deflection can you tolerate?
Eric
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I'm loading it on the 2" side . The number of arches can be decided when I
find out how much one will support. The building is an arch building 60' x
150' long. The arches are in a 60' span.

Why not add half a dozen more arced tubes (such as used on the inside
but 1 to 2' longer) on the outside for the conveyor system, Joe?
Attach to the end supports on the building for stability and you're
set. The (what, 1.5 or 2"?) tubing can easily handle the 200lbs per
ten feet of conveyor and it leaves the roof intact. It would probably
be less expensive in the long run, too, plus it leaves your existing
building untouched, except for the tie-ins at the 4 top "corners".

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

replying to Jim Wilkins , Joe Farmer wrote:
muratlanne wrote:

"Joe" wrote in
message roups.com...
Even if a stranger on the Net was willing to risk a lawsuit by
calculating the safe load capacity for you for free, it may not be
possible to determine without knowing details like the exact design of
the joints between arch sections, how well they are cross-braced
against buckling, the properties of the steel used to make it and if
ill-advised bending into arches weakens it. And then, if it was
properly assembled on a foundation that can resist the downward and
spreading loads.
"Commercial Steel" doesn't indicate much yield strength, consistency
or quality control:
http://www.mcneilus.com/products/sheet.html

http://www.materialgrades.com/a-653a...teels-120.html
How did the other one fail, in tension, compression, shear or
buckling?

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Americ...L-MORE--718071



First of all I would never expect someone's opinion to be a garrantee. I
figure the idea of this site is for educated and experienced guys or gals
to give their opinions on things that are their passion. I constantly
enjoy bouncing my ideas off of other colleges. I do alot of engineering on
the farm even though I do not have an engineering degree. I've learned
alot of things from experience. . Yes I could simply hire an engineer and
probably get a guarantee.,I can't afford to spend alot of money, but am
willing to spend some. Again I personally enjoy communicating ideas with
other people ,even though I wouldn't want to garrantee anything. Some
engineers will tell you one thing while others will disagree , and that's
ok, it's up to me to sort out what Imthink is the right decision with-out
holding anyone else accountable. Commercial steel is not consistent , but
if I overkill it , it may be just fine. I know I could build catwalk
runways wit alot of support, or put up I-beams tall an to the outside of
the structure and run cables to negate the weight, but I feel there is
probably a cheaper and easier way to attack it. I enjoy your opinion and
everyone's on this site. I find the articles on this site interesting. If
it wasn't for this site we wouldn't know some of things other people are
dealing with each day. Furthermore some comments are made that expand our
thinking, things we may never of thought of if it wasn't from someone
approaching things from a different angle.
Thank you very
much for for your opinion



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replying to Jim Wilkins , Joe Farmer wrote:
muratlanne wrote:

"Joe" wrote in
message roups.com...
Even if a stranger on the Net was willing to risk a lawsuit by
calculating the safe load capacity for you for free, it may not be
possible to determine without knowing details like the exact design of
the joints between arch sections, how well they are cross-braced
against buckling, the properties of the steel used to make it and if
ill-advised bending into arches weakens it. And then, if it was
properly assembled on a foundation that can resist the downward and
spreading loads.
"Commercial Steel" doesn't indicate much yield strength, consistency
or quality control:
http://www.mcneilus.com/products/sheet.html

http://www.materialgrades.com/a-653a...teels-120.html
How did the other one fail, in tension, compression, shear or
buckling?

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Americ...L-MORE--718071



First of all I would never expect someone's opinion to be a garrantee. I
figure the idea of this site is for educated and experienced guys or gals
to give their opinions on things that are their passion. I constantly
enjoy bouncing my ideas off of other colleges. I do alot of engineering on
the farm even though I do not have an engineering degree. I've learned
alot of things from experience. . Yes I could simply hire an engineer and
probably get a guarantee.,I can't afford to spend alot of money, but am
willing to spend some. Again I personally enjoy communicating ideas with
other people ,even though I wouldn't want to garrantee anything. Some
engineers will tell you one thing while others will disagree , and that's
ok, it's up to me to sort out what Imthink is the right decision with-out
holding anyone else accountable. Commercial steel is not consistent , but
if I overkill it , it may be just fine. I know I could build catwalk
runways wit alot of support, or put up I-beams tall an to the outside of
the structure and run cables to negate the weight, but I feel there is
probably a cheaper and easier way to attack it. I enjoy your opinion and
everyone's on this site. I find the articles on this site interesting. If
it wasn't for this site we wouldn't know some of things other people are
dealing with each day. Furthermore some comments are made that expand our
thinking, things we may never of thought of if it wasn't from someone
approaching things from a different angle.
Thank you very
much for for your opinion

Joe


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"Joe Farmer" wrote
in message
roups.com...
replying to Jim Wilkins , Joe Farmer wrote:
muratlanne wrote:

First of all I would never expect someone's opinion to be a
garrantee. I
figure the idea of this site is for educated and experienced guys or
gals
to give their opinions on things that are their passion. I
constantly
enjoy bouncing my ideas off of other colleges. I do alot of
engineering on
the farm even though I do not have an engineering degree. I've
learned
alot of things from experience. . Yes I could simply hire an
engineer and
probably get a guarantee.,I can't afford to spend alot of money, but
am
willing to spend some.

If it was my problem I'd go see if the truss people could add an
independent support inside. You need to support only a point load in
the center so the design is pretty simple. They might even have
something left over from a cancelled order.
jsw