On Apr 4, 5:57*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
I finally figured out why I could sharpen my old stainless knife and
why it would dull so quickly after I had sharpened it. It took
purchasing a new knife and having the same thing happen to it. I won't
be returning the new knife because it helped to teach me what I was
doing wrong.

Any guesses on why both knives would dull so quickly and would not
hold their edge?

You did not sharpen them correctly.

Dan

On Apr 4, 5:52*pm, " wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:57*pm, jon_banquer wrote:

I finally figured out why I could sharpen my old stainless knife and
why it would dull so quickly after I had sharpened it. It took
purchasing a new knife and having the same thing happen to it. I won't
be returning the new knife because it helped to teach me what I was
doing wrong.

Any guesses on why both knives would dull so quickly and would not
hold their edge?

You did not sharpen them correctly.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan

As far as I can tell I was sharpening them correctly. I say this
because not enough time has passed yet but so far neither knife has
gotten dull after many juicing preps. Both knifes use to get dull
after prepping for just one juicing.

On 4/4/2013 8:27 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:52 pm, wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:57 pm, wrote:

I finally figured out why I could sharpen my old stainless knife and
why it would dull so quickly after I had sharpened it. It took
purchasing a new knife and having the same thing happen to it. I won't
be returning the new knife because it helped to teach me what I was
doing wrong.

Any guesses on why both knives would dull so quickly and would not
hold their edge?

You did not sharpen them correctly.

Dan

As far as I can tell I was sharpening them correctly. I say this
because not enough time has passed yet but so far neither knife has
gotten dull after many juicing preps. Both knifes use to get dull
after prepping for just one juicing.


Acid?

On Apr 4, 6:30*pm, Richard wrote:
On 4/4/2013 8:27 PM, jon_banquer wrote:









On Apr 4, 5:52 pm, *wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:57 pm, *wrote:

I finally figured out why I could sharpen my old stainless knife and
why it would dull so quickly after I had sharpened it. It took
purchasing a new knife and having the same thing happen to it. I won't
be returning the new knife because it helped to teach me what I was
doing wrong.

Any guesses on why both knives would dull so quickly and would not
hold their edge?

You did not sharpen them correctly.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan

As far as I can tell I was sharpening them correctly. I say this
because not enough time has passed yet but so far neither knife has
gotten dull after many juicing preps. Both knifes use to get dull
after prepping for just one juicing.

Acid?

No, but I think acid would have been better than what I unwittingly
did to these knives! When the brand new second knife went dull after
just one juice prep I used Google and came up with the answer that I
suspected was the problem.

Ok, enough 20 questions...

What damn fool thing did you do?

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 20:53:24 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 4, 8:18 pm, Richard wrote:
Ok, enough 20 questions...

What damn fool thing did you do?

No doubt, I do feel like a damn fool. I was using a glass cutting board:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1335613.html

Yup that'd do it, alright...

I've got a piece of UHMW about 3/4 thick and 18X24...big enough to break down most any beef primal section...it gets bleached frequently and occasionally I'll carefully scrape to remove any deep scratches....

BTW, I make a killer Pastrami...if you ever get the notion to travel up this way, be sure and give me about 3 weeks advance notice....

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...91702189_n.jpg
I make corned beef from scratch using a brine I developed myself after
failing to find a good recipe for one. Lots of dry recipes but I
wanted something that would work in 24 hours. I would love to have
your recipe for pastrami if you would be willing. I will happily trade
my corned beef recipe for it. In fact, if you don't want to give it up
I will still post my corned beef recipe if anyone is interested.
Eric

On Apr 4, 9:27*pm, jon_banquer wrote:

You did not sharpen them correctly.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan

As far as I can tell I was sharpening them correctly. I say this
because not enough time has passed yet but so far neither knife has
gotten dull after many juicing preps. Both knifes use to get dull
after prepping for just one juicing.

I figured you had sharpened them so they had a feather edge. Never
crossed my mind that glass cutting boards were available. Looks like
Precission Machinist had the right answer when he said cutting bricks.


Dan

wrote in message ...
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 20:53:24 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 4, 8:18 pm, Richard wrote:
Ok, enough 20 questions...

What damn fool thing did you do?

No doubt, I do feel like a damn fool. I was using a glass cutting board:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1335613.html

Yup that'd do it, alright...

I've got a piece of UHMW about 3/4 thick and 18X24...big enough to break down most any beef primal section...it gets bleached frequently and occasionally I'll carefully scrape to remove any deep scratches....

BTW, I make a killer Pastrami...if you ever get the notion to travel up this way, be sure and give me about 3 weeks advance notice....

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...91702189_n.jpg
I make corned beef from scratch using a brine I developed myself after
failing to find a good recipe for one. Lots of dry recipes but I
wanted something that would work in 24 hours. I would love to have
your recipe for pastrami if you would be willing. I will happily trade
my corned beef recipe for it. In fact, if you don't want to give it up
I will still post my corned beef recipe if anyone is interested.


Would love to see it.

Unfortunately, I've never written up recipe per se.....I can tell you quite a bit about my process though...

I start with a "cryo pack brisket"--I buy these from Cash & Carry, (smartfoodservice.com) guessing you probably do the same for your corned beef although I've heard Costco also carries them...anyways, due to the oxygen-free nature of the cryo-pak packaging, the brisket can sit (unopened) in the bottom of the fridge for at least two weeks without degradation, probably longer and so there's usually no big hurry...

When I finally get around to it, I'll open the package and separate the point from the flat....also, I'll trim away excessive fat and anything else that I do not want to eat...then I'll cut the flat into two pieces which leaves me with a total of 3 chunks of meat.....do not trim away all of the fat it's--best to leave about 1/8 in

I "dry cure" using Morton's Tender quick--it's VERY important at this point in the process to weigh the meat and make sure to use the proper amount of cure as per package instructions--a little extra is okay; it wont hurt anything because later you will de-brine to removes any excess salts....the idea here is for the nitrates in the cure to alter the protein molecules in the meat...if there's not enough nitrates, sections of the meat will be gray instead of red after cooking and your product will be much more prone to spoilage...

Anyways, typically I will use a stainless skewer and poke holes all the way through the meat, about an inch apart...in order to avoid poking holes in the cutting board, usually I will stack one piece of meat ontop of another...

Then, I apply the "curing rub"--as I said before, be sure to use the correct amount of curing salts per package instructions but as for the rest of the rub ingredients, the actual amounts are subject to wide interpretation...at a very minimum, you need black pepper and coriander, preferably freshly ground--these two ingredients are what gives Pastrami it's signature flavor profile....personally though, I suggest also adding some brown sugar and garlic powder, possibly some onion powder and perhaps even some paprika...

Finally, once you've applied the rub, put each chunk into a plastic bag and squeeze as much air out as possible...seal the bag and place it into the coldest section of your refrigerator for about ten days, flipping them over once a day or so to redistribute any liquid brine that forms. You can leave it in longer if you wish, probably a LOT longer if need be...from what I understand, meat in this condition ( packed in brine ) used to travel by ship for several months at a time without going rancid...

Anyways, once it's been cured for at least ten days, it's time to "debrine"....what I do is I place the briskets into a 5 gallon bucket filled with fresh water and refrigerate for about 4 hours which leaches out most of the excess salt and nitrate...if you don't have room to refrigerate a 5 gallon bucket then you can use a smaller pot and change out the water several times instead.

After debrining, the meat will be decidedly unappealing visually; all white and gray and pale..this is absolutely nothing to worry about, it's perfectly normal....

Time to add the "finish rub" !!!

Your finish rub will be basically the same or at least very similar to the curing rub except DO NOT use any curing salt or nitrates....pat the meat dry and apply your rub...you want a nice, thick, evenly applied coat....a little olive oil spray helps to make it stick better....then, into the smoker it goes...I usually cold smoke for about 6 hours, using alder chips but again, this is subject to interpretation, some folks prefer hickory but I find hickory to be too strong...a light smoke is probably better than heavy one when it comes to Pastrami.

After smoking, it will be then slowly dry roasted in the oven, usually this takes about six hours at a temperature of 190 to 210....I'm shooting for an internal tremp of 160 or thereabouts....after the temp is reached, it comes out of the oven and is then given a day of rest, refrigerated...avoid the urge to cut into it and sample while it's still hot as you will lose a lot of moisture if you do this...but I suppose if you wait until it's cooled then I'm not going to slap you upside the head....it will be tough, and stringy at this point and so it needs to be steamed before it is finally sliced for sandwiches...

Usually I steam, covered, for about four hours, in a Hamilton Beach roaster oven just like this one :

http://cdn.couponcravings.com/wp-con...9.21.47-PM.png

Specifically, I put about 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of the oven pan and then I set a large glass rectangular casserole dish into the water to catch the drippings, and finally I place the Pastramis onto a wire rack above the casserole so as to keep them up out of the drippings....then I'll set the temp knob to about 210 degrees and check on it every so often to make sure that all of the water hasn't evaporated out from the bottom and ended up all of it collected in the drip pan.....

Finally, before slicing, typically I'll dip each chunk of pastrami into the drippings and then once it's been thinly sliced, it goes into freezer bags along with a tablespoon or so of the drippings and it's then frozen for later use.

The rest of the drippings will make an exceptionally delicious vegetable-beef soup base, BTW

It's worth noting, Pastrami actually becomes more tender and more flavorful after it's been frozen for a week or more.

Anyways, hope this helps--it's a long process but worth it...incredibly delicious...

On Friday, April 5, 2013 3:41:12 PM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote:

snip

Is this group turning into rec.crafts.home-ec?

jsw

Jim:

If it is, it's more civil and informative than the rec.crafts.guns & hyper-partisan politics that this place has become, eh?

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Apr 5, 4:41*pm, BottleBob wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 3:41:12 PM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote:

snip

Is this group turning into rec.crafts.home-ec?

jsw

Jim:

* * * * If it is, it's more civil and informative than the rec.crafts.guns & hyper-partisan politics that this place has become, eh?

--
BottleBobhttp://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

More discussion of organic high tech farming would be nice.

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 10:03:02 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 20:53:24 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 4, 8:18 pm, Richard wrote:
Ok, enough 20 questions...

What damn fool thing did you do?

No doubt, I do feel like a damn fool. I was using a glass cutting board:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1335613.html

Yup that'd do it, alright...

I've got a piece of UHMW about 3/4 thick and 18X24...big enough to break down most any beef primal section...it gets bleached frequently and occasionally I'll carefully scrape to remove any deep scratches....

BTW, I make a killer Pastrami...if you ever get the notion to travel up this way, be sure and give me about 3 weeks advance notice....

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...91702189_n.jpg
I make corned beef from scratch using a brine I developed myself after
failing to find a good recipe for one. Lots of dry recipes but I
wanted something that would work in 24 hours. I would love to have
your recipe for pastrami if you would be willing. I will happily trade
my corned beef recipe for it. In fact, if you don't want to give it up
I will still post my corned beef recipe if anyone is interested.


Would love to see it.

Unfortunately, I've never written up recipe per se.....I can tell you quite a bit about my process though...

I start with a "cryo pack brisket"--I buy these from Cash & Carry, (smartfoodservice.com) guessing you probably do the same for your corned beef although I've heard Costco also carries them...anyways, due to the oxygen-free nature of the cryo-pak packaging, the brisket can sit (unopened) in the bottom of the fridge for at least two weeks without degradation, probably longer and so there's usually no big hurry...

When I finally get around to it, I'll open the package and separate the point from the flat....also, I'll trim away excessive fat and anything else that I do not want to eat...then I'll cut the flat into two pieces which leaves me with a total of 3 chunks of meat.....do not trim away all of the fat it's--best to leave about 1/8 in

I "dry cure" using Morton's Tender quick--it's VERY important at this point in the process to weigh the meat and make sure to use the proper amount of cure as per package instructions--a little extra is okay; it wont hurt anything because later you will de-brine to removes any excess salts....the idea here is for the nitrates in the cure to alter the protein molecules in the meat...if there's not enough nitrates, sections of the meat will be gray instead of red after cooking and your product will be much more prone to spoilage...

Anyways, typically I will use a stainless skewer and poke holes all the way through the meat, about an inch apart...in order to avoid poking holes in the cutting board, usually I will stack one piece of meat ontop of another...

Then, I apply the "curing rub"--as I said before, be sure to use the correct amount of curing salts per package instructions but as for the rest of the rub ingredients, the actual amounts are subject to wide interpretation...at a very minimum, you need black pepper and coriander, preferably freshly ground--these two ingredients are what gives Pastrami it's signature flavor profile....personally though, I suggest also adding some brown sugar and garlic powder, possibly some onion powder and perhaps even some paprika...

Finally, once you've applied the rub, put each chunk into a plastic bag and squeeze as much air out as possible...seal the bag and place it into the coldest section of your refrigerator for about ten days, flipping them over once a day or so to redistribute any liquid brine that forms. You can leave it in longer if you wish, probably a LOT longer if need be...from what I understand, meat in this condition ( packed in brine ) used to travel by ship for several months at a time without going rancid...

Anyways, once it's been cured for at least ten days, it's time to "debrine"....what I do is I place the briskets into a 5 gallon bucket filled with fresh water and refrigerate for about 4 hours which leaches out most of the excess salt and nitrate...if you don't have room to refrigerate a 5 gallon bucket then you can use a smaller pot and change out the water several times instead.

After debrining, the meat will be decidedly unappealing visually; all white and gray and pale..this is absolutely nothing to worry about, it's perfectly normal....

Time to add the "finish rub" !!!

Your finish rub will be basically the same or at least very similar to the curing rub except DO NOT use any curing salt or nitrates....pat the meat dry and apply your rub...you want a nice, thick, evenly applied coat....a little olive oil spray helps to make it stick better....then, into the smoker it goes...I usually cold smoke for about 6 hours, using alder chips but again, this is subject to interpretation, some folks prefer hickory but I find hickory to be too strong...a light smoke is probably better than heavy one when it comes to Pastrami.

After smoking, it will be then slowly dry roasted in the oven, usually this takes about six hours at a temperature of 190 to 210....I'm shooting for an internal tremp of 160 or thereabouts....after the temp is reached, it comes out of the oven and is then given a day of rest, refrigerated...avoid the urge to cut into it and sample while it's still hot as you will lose a lot of moisture if you do this...but I suppose if you wait until it's cooled then I'm not going to slap you upside the head....it will be tough, and stringy at this point and so it needs to be steamed before it is finally sliced for sandwiches...

Usually I steam, covered, for about four hours, in a Hamilton Beach roaster oven just like this one :

http://cdn.couponcravings.com/wp-con...9.21.47-PM.png

Specifically, I put about 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of the oven pan and then I set a large glass rectangular casserole dish into the water to catch the drippings, and finally I place the Pastramis onto a wire rack above the casserole so as to keep them up out of the drippings....then I'll set the temp knob to about 210 degrees and check on it every so often to make sure that all of the water hasn't evaporated out from the bottom and ended up all of it collected in the drip pan.....

Finally, before slicing, typically I'll dip each chunk of pastrami into the drippings and then once it's been thinly sliced, it goes into freezer bags along with a tablespoon or so of the drippings and it's then frozen for later use.

The rest of the drippings will make an exceptionally delicious vegetable-beef soup base, BTW

It's worth noting, Pastrami actually becomes more tender and more flavorful after it's been frozen for a week or more.

Anyways, hope this helps--it's a long process but worth it...incredibly delicious...

Thanks for the instructions. I will be trying your method. I will also
post my corned beef brine, which is similar to your rub.
Eric

"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 5, 4:41 pm, BottleBob wrote:

If it is, it's more civil and informative than the rec.crafts.guns & hyper-partisan politics that this place has become, eh?

More discussion of organic high tech farming would be nice.

Here's a close up photo of some sweet peppers from my garden last year:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...51530558_n.jpg

Still have about 10 gallons in the freezer--remove seeds, chop, quick freeze on a tray, then put up in zip locks....

Below are from 2011, there's chopped onion mixed in with them:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...65580745_n.jpg

Very tasty on pizza !!!

On Friday, April 5, 2013 4:51:01 PM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:

More discussion of organic high tech farming would be nice.


Jon:

You could try these:

msn.forums.gardening.organic

rec.gardens.organic

free.uk.farming.organic

organic%20gardening


Results: about 224 for organic farming

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forumsearch/organic$20farming


--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Apr 5, 6:12*pm, BottleBob wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 4:51:01 PM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
More discussion of organic high tech farming would be nice.

Jon:

* * *You could try these:

msn.forums.gardening.organic

rec.gardens.organic

free.uk.farming.organic

organic%20gardening

Results: about 224 for organic farming

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forumsearch/organic$20fa...

--
BottleBobhttp://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob


Check this out:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...ga-indoor-farm

"BottleBob" wrote in message ...
On Friday, April 5, 2013 4:51:01 PM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:

More discussion of organic high tech farming would be nice.


Jon:

You could try these:

msn.forums.gardening.organic

rec.gardens.organic

free.uk.farming.organic

organic%20gardening


Results: about 224 for organic farming

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forumsearch/organic$20farming


Suggest don't go there and start discussing metalworking.....

On Apr 5, 6:23*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 5, 6:12*pm, BottleBob wrote:









On Friday, April 5, 2013 4:51:01 PM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
More discussion of organic high tech farming would be nice.

Jon:

* * *You could try these:

msn.forums.gardening.organic

rec.gardens.organic

free.uk.farming.organic

organic%20gardening

Results: about 224 for organic farming

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forumsearch/organic$20fa...

--
BottleBobhttp://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Check this out:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis.../business/chic...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7JPBUx057w

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 17:52:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 4, 5:57Â*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
I finally figured out why I could sharpen my old stainless knife and
why it would dull so quickly after I had sharpened it. It took
purchasing a new knife and having the same thing happen to it. I won't
be returning the new knife because it helped to teach me what I was
doing wrong.

Any guesses on why both knives would dull so quickly and would not
hold their edge?

You did not sharpen them correctly.

Dan

Or they are of less than sturdy alloys

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 07:56:21 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 20:53:24 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 4, 8:18 pm, Richard wrote:
Ok, enough 20 questions...

What damn fool thing did you do?

No doubt, I do feel like a damn fool. I was using a glass cutting board:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1335613.html

Yup that'd do it, alright...

I've got a piece of UHMW about 3/4 thick and 18X24...big enough to break down most any beef primal section...it gets bleached frequently and occasionally I'll carefully scrape to remove any deep scratches....

BTW, I make a killer Pastrami...if you ever get the notion to travel up this way, be sure and give me about 3 weeks advance notice....

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...91702189_n.jpg
I make corned beef from scratch using a brine I developed myself after
failing to find a good recipe for one. Lots of dry recipes but I
wanted something that would work in 24 hours. I would love to have
your recipe for pastrami if you would be willing. I will happily trade
my corned beef recipe for it. In fact, if you don't want to give it up
I will still post my corned beef recipe if anyone is interested.
Eric


Gunner asks for it!!