My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing. Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, Steve B wrote:
My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing. Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

A lot of switches that look like that are DPDT (double pole double
throw) with middle pair of pins being commons for the two poles.
If it is DPDT, and if you do the measurements with the switch out
of circuit, and if you label the pins A,B,C down one side and D,E,F
down the other, I'd expect an A-B connection and a D-E connection
with it toggled one way; no connections between any pins when the
rocker is centered; and a B-C connection and an E-F connection
with it toggled the other way.

What is the switch supposed to do in the application? If it's for
reversing the motor, the circuit it's in might be wired as
illustrated at the bottom of
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=504.

--
jiw

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing. Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve

What problem does the motor have? Most likely the switch IS shot.

"BQ340" wrote in message
. com...
On 6/15/2012 10:34 PM, Steve B wrote:
My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has
a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back,
two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the
middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing.
Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve



Usually the middle will have continuity with either side, depending on the
switch position.


MikeB


Tried touching every combination of terminals with switch in all positions,
and can only get it when the switch is in the middle position, and then on
only the two center prongs.

Steve

"James Waldby" wrote

What is the switch supposed to do in the application? If it's for
reversing the motor, the circuit it's in might be wired as
illustrated at the bottom of
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=504.

--
jiw

Yes, this is the reverse switch. There are four leads. Two from the
battery, one ground to the motor, and one hot to the speed switch.

There are no other jumpers.

Steve

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back,
two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the
middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing.
Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve

What problem does the motor have? Most likely the switch IS shot.

Motor won't reverse using switch. Totally eliminating the reverse switch, I
can wire the wire from motor and speed selector directly to power, and the
motor will run in all four speeds, and go to off in the off position.
Direction must be determined by polarity rather than by reverse switch.

Steve

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:04:03 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"James Waldby" wrote

What is the switch supposed to do in the application? If it's for
reversing the motor, the circuit it's in might be wired as illustrated
at the bottom of
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/
product&product_id=504.

--
jiw

Yes, this is the reverse switch. There are four leads. Two from the
battery, one ground to the motor, and one hot to the speed switch.

There are no other jumpers.

Six lugs on the switch, but only four wires? Hmmm

From your description, the switch _is_ shot. Things rust on boats...

I'd replace it with a regular old DPDT switch with the appropriate
crossover jumpers for reversing, and see how long the new one lasted. A
switch from Radio Shack may not last as long as the original; a good
switch from Mouser or Newark may outlast the motor.

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:06:34 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back,
two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the
middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing.
Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve

What problem does the motor have? Most likely the switch IS shot.

Motor won't reverse using switch. Totally eliminating the reverse switch, I
can wire the wire from motor and speed selector directly to power, and the
motor will run in all four speeds, and go to off in the off position.
Direction must be determined by polarity rather than by reverse switch.

Steve

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Steve B wrote:
My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing. Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve




Two center contacts should go to the motor. Then two on one end connect
to battery. Two cross over jumpers should be wired to those and connect
to the opposite switch contacts on the other end.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/012_01.gif shows how it should be
connected.

Sounds like the reverse jumpers rotted off or were removed for some
reason. What make and model is the motor? I may have a source for a
manual on it.

--
Steve W.

On 6/15/2012 10:34 PM, Steve B wrote:
My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing. Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

Not if the contacts are defective. They make high current,
'reversing' toggle switches that have a flat pair of straps that run to
opposing corners. If that thing was stored outdoors, or in a damp
location the guts are probably a green ball of goo.

wrote in :

The reverse switch reverses the polarity.

Correct.

Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Probably incorrect. While this would work, the usual method of wiring such a switch is to
connect the power source to the center terminals, and the motor to the end terminals, cross-
jumpered as you describe.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
On 6/15/2012 10:34 PM, Steve B wrote:
My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe.
It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the
back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

Not if the contacts are defective. They make high current,
'reversing' toggle switches that have a flat pair of straps that run
to opposing corners. If that thing was stored outdoors, or in a
damp location the guts are probably a green ball of goo.


If you feel adventuresome and inquisitive, and can buy a replacement,
it's often possible to disassemble and repair a toggle switch if it
has a top plate held to the body by bent fingers. Clamp or hold it
together and bend out the fingers with a small screwdriver and
needlenose pliers, then carefully let the plate spring out upwards and
note how it's assembled.

Scrape the burnt contacts clean, reassemble, test, and bend the
fingers back in with a small punch.

jsw

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:27:05 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in :

The reverse switch reverses the polarity.

Correct.

Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Probably incorrect. While this would work, the usual method of wiring such a switch is to
connect the power source to the center terminals, and the motor to the end terminals, cross-
jumpered as you describe.
I
Electricity doesn't really care which end of a switch goes where, so
either would work. The examples I have to refer to are wired as I
described

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:06:34 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has
a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back,
two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the
middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing.
Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when
I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve

What problem does the motor have? Most likely the switch IS shot.

Motor won't reverse using switch. Totally eliminating the reverse switch,
I
can wire the wire from motor and speed selector directly to power, and the
motor will run in all four speeds, and go to off in the off position.
Direction must be determined by polarity rather than by reverse switch.

Steve

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

After thinking about it for a day now, I was just out there, and connected
the wires in just about every configuration I could think of. Maybe I
missed that one. I will try it. I did exactly as you describe, and used a
short piece of wire to shunt the two unused terminals in all directions. No
go. I can only get it to work on one end. If I put the two supply wires on
the center pair, it works if I put the other two on either end terminal
pair. But when I put one on one end, and the other on the other end, and
use a shunt, I still can't get it to work. I got out the test light this
time, to see what was going on instead of the meter.

I just left it, still scratching my head. I will try your approach
tomorrow. I have had enough of it for one day.

Besides, I just bought a new steering assembly which goes on MY boat, and
need to get it on there, and start doing some fishing.

Fish fear me.

Steve

wrote

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Now, would that be to connect the other two wires to the two terminals on
one end of the switch, or to the two terminals with the same orientation on
opposite sides of the center two?

Steve

"Steve W." wrote


Two center contacts should go to the motor. Then two on one end connect to
battery. Two cross over jumpers should be wired to those and connect to
the opposite switch contacts on the other end.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/012_01.gif shows how it should be
connected.

Sounds like the reverse jumpers rotted off or were removed for some
reason. What make and model is the motor? I may have a source for a
manual on it.

--
Steve W.

Minn Kota 55 W, 23# thrust, four speed. All wires and switch appear to be
in pristine condition, no arc melting sites. So, I would need to make a
jumper to connect the one ends to the other, with the battery coming in on
one end, and cross jumping to the other end?

Steve

"Steve W." wrote

Two center contacts should go to the motor. Then two on one end connect to
battery. Two cross over jumpers should be wired to those and connect to
the opposite switch contacts on the other end.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/012_01.gif shows how it should be
connected.

Sounds like the reverse jumpers rotted off or were removed for some
reason. What make and model is the motor? I may have a source for a
manual on it.

--
Steve W.

Am I wrong, or does this diagram show the center contacts going to the power
supply, and NOT the motor, as you suggest?

It looks like I need to find my box of spade crimp on terminals and make a
couple of jumpers.

Steve

"Jim Wilkins" wrote

If you feel adventuresome and inquisitive, and can buy a replacement, it's
often possible to disassemble and repair a toggle switch if it has a top
plate held to the body by bent fingers. Clamp or hold it together and bend
out the fingers with a small screwdriver and needlenose pliers, then
carefully let the plate spring out upwards and note how it's assembled.

Scrape the burnt contacts clean, reassemble, test, and bend the fingers
back in with a small punch.

jsw

Did that. NAPA can special order the switch. $36 regular price, but they
will "let me have it" for a mere $18.

A lot of money by my book for a piece of plastic and a little copper. This
one apparently is functioning, now that I tested it with a light. I just
need to figure out the wiring sequence. Will make some jumpers tomorrow,
and advise.

Steve

On 6/16/2012 12:43 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

If you feel adventuresome and inquisitive, and can buy a replacement,
it's often possible to disassemble and repair a toggle switch if it
has a top plate held to the body by bent fingers. Clamp or hold it
together and bend out the fingers with a small screwdriver and
needlenose pliers, then carefully let the plate spring out upwards and
note how it's assembled.

Scrape the burnt contacts clean, reassemble, test, and bend the
fingers back in with a small punch.


The reversing switches I've seen were riveted, and the body was
damaged from heat before the switch failed. Most had the toggle
mechanism damaged, and some had the spring missing where it had popped
out and ended up across the power terminals.

Lower power switches are easier to repair, and I've repaired a lot
of damaged rotary switches. I've replaced damaged contacts that I
salvaged from other switches. Most of the time, time was a bigger issue
than the cost of a new switch, and my customers wanted long term repairs
so they were replaced whenever possible. I've worked in Electronics for
over 50 years, and started at eight years old. There _was_ a reason that
my shop had the best reputation in town.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:05:01 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:06:34 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has
a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back,
two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the
middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing.
Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when
I
flip the rocker to that position?

Steve

What problem does the motor have? Most likely the switch IS shot.

Motor won't reverse using switch. Totally eliminating the reverse switch,
I
can wire the wire from motor and speed selector directly to power, and the
motor will run in all four speeds, and go to off in the off position.
Direction must be determined by polarity rather than by reverse switch.

Steve

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

After thinking about it for a day now, I was just out there, and connected
the wires in just about every configuration I could think of. Maybe I
missed that one. I will try it. I did exactly as you describe, and used a
short piece of wire to shunt the two unused terminals in all directions. No
go. I can only get it to work on one end. If I put the two supply wires on
the center pair, it works if I put the other two on either end terminal
pair. But when I put one on one end, and the other on the other end, and
use a shunt, I still can't get it to work. I got out the test light this
time, to see what was going on instead of the meter.

I just left it, still scratching my head. I will try your approach
tomorrow. I have had enough of it for one day.

You need BOTH shunts installed before the "reverse" connection can
work. clarification. supply on 2 centers. Motor on 2 on one end. 2
jumpers CROSSING between the 4 end terminals.

Besides, I just bought a new steering assembly which goes on MY boat, and
need to get it on there, and start doing some fishing.

Fish fear me.

Steve

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:08:04 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Now, would that be to connect the other two wires to the two terminals on
one end of the switch, or to the two terminals with the same orientation on
opposite sides of the center two?

Steve

A-B-C
D-E-F

Connect power to A and D or B and E
Jumper A to F and D to C
Connect motor A and D or B and E, whichever you did not
connect power to.

wrote in



You need BOTH shunts installed before the "reverse" connection can
work. clarification. supply on 2 centers. Motor on 2 on one end. 2
jumpers CROSSING between the 4 end terminals.


this motor has obviously had some modifications.

On 2012-06-16, Steve B wrote:
My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back, two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

When doing a continuity check, I can only get continuity between the middle
two. The right and left do not have any continuity whatsoever, with the
pair, or with any other spade push terminal. There is no melting, no
blackening, and no evidence of melted metal from shorting/arcing. Shouldn't
there be continuity on all three pairs, each one having continuity when I
flip the rocker to that position?

That depends. First off -- how many positions are supposed to
produce active output from the motor? One should be a stop, should it
not, and the other two what -- Forward/Reverse? Slow/Fast?

Anyway -- there can be almost any combination of switch
terminals, but the most common is like this:


Switch to left:

A B C
o----o o


o----o o
D E F

Switch in center:

A B C
o o o


o o o
D E F


Switch to right

A B C
o o----o


o o----o
D E F

That is -- in the center position, there is no connection at all. And
in the left and right positions -- the center two connections are
connected to the two terminal on the same end.

When you measured continuity between the terminals shown as 'B'
and 'E' in my drawings above, were all the wires disconnected from the
switch? If the motor was connected to those, they would be showing as
connected to each other with a simple continuity checker, and likely the
resistance would be low enough so an ohmmeter would indicate continuity
as well.

Anyway -- if I were setting it up for Forward/Stop/Reverse (with
a switch such as I drew above), I would connect the motor to 'B' and 'E'
and the battery Plus side) to 'A' and 'F', and minus side to 'C' and
'D'. This would give Forward with the switch thrown to one side, Stop
in the middle, and Reverse with the switch thrown to the other. side

Or -- I would connect the battery to 'B' and 'E' and the motor
to the others cross-connected as above. A little safer, as in the
center position the outer terminals (the most likely to hit something
else) are not powered when the switch is in the "Stop" position.

Is your "continuity tester" one of those Electric lamp in a
housing with a battery, a clip lead coming out one end, and a probe out
the other? If so, it should light when the clip lead and probe are
connected together. If it doesn't, the battery is dead, and your
supposed "continuity" could be the light being run through the dead
internal battery by the battery which runs the motor. (And what is the
state of charge of that battery?)

Much more meaningful information would be from an
volt/ohm/ammeter -- a "multimeter" -- using the voltage ranges first to
make sure that there is no voltage applied to the terminals, and after
that, measuring the resistance between the terminals.

There could be a fuse between the motor's battery and the switch
which is blown.

Why not start by giving us the make and model of the trolling
motor, so perhaps we can look up the manual and hopefully see the switch
configuration.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 6/16/2012 10:08 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Now, would that be to connect the other two wires to the two terminals on
one end of the switch, or to the two terminals with the same orientation on
opposite sides of the center two?


http://rollertrol.com/DC-motor-reverse-switch-diagram shows how to wire
a reversing switch. The speed control wiring is between the motor & switch.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

After thinking about it for a day now, I was just out there, and
connected the wires in just about every configuration I could think
of. Steve

Does this help?
http://www.instructables.com/id/HOW-...g-po/?ALLSTEPS

Electrons fear me
jsw

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
...
Often times..they (almost any equipment maker) doesnt use decent
switches. They save a buck or 2..but the equipment dies faster.

Gunner

Experience leads me to suspect that mechanical (and sometimes
electrical) engineers don't learn how to specify electro-mechanical
components.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_4/2.html

One -very- capable mechanical engineer I worked for didn't know that
Pemnuts existed. He could design and analyze a complex engine or
transmission casting but had never worked with sheet metal.

jsw

wrote in :

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:27:05 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in :

The reverse switch reverses the polarity.

Correct.

Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Probably incorrect. While this would work, the usual method of wiring such a switch is to
connect the power source to the center terminals, and the motor to the end terminals,
cross-
jumpered as you describe.
I
Electricity doesn't really care which end of a switch goes where, so
either would work.

Yes, of course -- however, the OP doesn't appear to have much idea of how to debug this
on his own, and any description of how the switch "should be" wired that doesn't match
what's in front of him will only add to his existing bewilderment.

"Steve B" wrote in :


wrote

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Now, would that be to connect the other two wires to the two terminals on
one end of the switch, or to the two terminals with the same orientation on
opposite sides of the center two?

Like this:

a c e
b d f

First, connect a to f, and b to e

Then do any one of the following:
1. battery to c & d, motor to a & b
2. battery to c & d, motor to e & f
3. motor to c & d, battery to a & b
4. motor to c & d, battery to e & f

If the motor runs forward when you select reverse, then reverse the motor leads, or the
battery leads (for example, connect to b & a instead of a & b).

"Steve B" wrote in :


"Steve W." wrote

Two center contacts should go to the motor. Then two on one end connect to
battery. Two cross over jumpers should be wired to those and connect to
the opposite switch contacts on the other end.

http://www.eleinmec.com/figures/012_01.gif shows how it should be
connected.

Sounds like the reverse jumpers rotted off or were removed for some
reason. What make and model is the motor? I may have a source for a
manual on it.
Am I wrong, or does this diagram show the center contacts going to the power
supply, and NOT the motor, as you suggest?

Yes, it does -- that's the "normal" way to connect such a switch.

"Doug Miller" wrote

Yes, of course -- however, the OP doesn't appear to have much idea of how
to debug this
on his own, and any description of how the switch "should be" wired that
doesn't match
what's in front of him will only add to his existing bewilderment.

Hold your phone calls, folks, we have a winner. It is because I DO NOT know
everything that I come here and ask questions. To what may be simple to
some.

I now have the site provided by another poster on how to do this, and it was
exactly as I had deduced so far, just have not gotten out there to finish
it.

Steve

"Jim Wilkins" wrote

Does this help?
http://www.instructables.com/id/HOW-...g-po/?ALLSTEPS

Electrons fear me
jsw

Yes. It shows a very clear solution. I had actually arrived at that by the
diagram provided earlier, but just did not get to it yet. I helped a friend
texture his bathroom yesterday, and today, so far, I have only gone to
church. I may go out there this afternoon if it is not too hot and look for
my terminal box, and make up the jumpers.

Thanks.

Steve

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:18:15 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote

If you feel adventuresome and inquisitive, and can buy a replacement,
it's often possible to disassemble and repair a toggle switch if it has
a top plate held to the body by bent fingers. Clamp or hold it together
and bend out the fingers with a small screwdriver and needlenose
pliers, then carefully let the plate spring out upwards and note how
it's assembled.

Scrape the burnt contacts clean, reassemble, test, and bend the fingers
back in with a small punch.

jsw

Did that. NAPA can special order the switch. $36 regular price, but
they will "let me have it" for a mere $18.

A lot of money by my book for a piece of plastic and a little copper.
This one apparently is functioning, now that I tested it with a light.
I just need to figure out the wiring sequence. Will make some jumpers
tomorrow, and advise.

Steve

I expect that what you will see is that in one extreme the hook up will be

Motor A -- battery +
Motor B -- battery -

and in the other it'll be

Motor A -- battery -
Motor B -- battery +

And in the middle it'll be nothing connected at all.

I can't imagine any other way (but then, sometimes my imagination fails
me). If that's the connection, then you can easily do that with a plain
old DPDT on-off-on switch and some jumpers. Just make sure you get a
herky enough switch, and have fun.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote

I expect that what you will see is that in one extreme the hook up
will be

Motor A -- battery +
Motor B -- battery -

and in the other it'll be

Motor A -- battery -
Motor B -- battery +

And in the middle it'll be nothing connected at all.

I can't imagine any other way (but then, sometimes my imagination
fails
me).
Tim Wescott,

My father tended to wire three-way light switches such that the power
went through the bulb one way, and around it the other (not for
long!). I couldn't properly explain the right way well enough that
he'd remember. Now they have the diagram on the box.

I had three-way and four-way light switches as a problem in college
physics class. Four-way light switches are wired the same as motor
reversing switches, often internally. They lack the center OFF
position.

jsw

On 6/17/2012 5:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I had three-way and four-way light switches as a problem in college
physics class. Four-way light switches are wired the same as motor
reversing switches, often internally. They lack the center OFF
position.

I've had more than one 'Know it all electrician' tell me that you
could only use one four way switch in a string. Of course, they
preferred to sell those overpriced low voltage/relay systems to gullible
customers.

On 2012-06-17, Steve B wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:06:34 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:34:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

My SIL is having a problem with her trolling motor on her canoe. It has
a
three position rocker switch with six spade prongs coming out the back,
two
for each position on the rocker. Right, middle, and left.

[ ... ]

The reverse switch reverses the polarity. Motor connects to center
connections, and the battery connects to two end terminals in one
direction, cross jumpered to the other end.

Cross-Jumpered is like this (view with a fixed pitch font like
Courier to keep the image from being distorted):

(+)----------------------+
|
A o B o C o--------------+
Battery here \______ / __|__
\ / / MOT \
_______/ \_____/
/ \ |
D o E o F o--------------+
|
(-)----------------------+

Note that while '-' or '+' in parens is a battery polarity,
elsewhere, '-' is use to make horizontal wires, and '+' is used when a
wire turns a right angled corner.

The wires from 'A' to 'F' and from 'C' to 'D' are what was
called "cross-jumpers" -- and were *not* things for you to add for
testing. Note that the effect of this is for the motor to be connected
one way between 'C' and 'F' and connected the other way between 'A' and
'D'. Add more wires to this and you are likely to either blow a fuse,
or just accomplish nothing, if they are in parallel with existing wires.

Note also that the cross-jumpers *may* be built into the switch,
but if so, I don't see a point to bringing out the last two terminals
(two at one end or the other).

After thinking about it for a day now, I was just out there, and connected
the wires in just about every configuration I could think of. Maybe I
missed that one. I will try it. I did exactly as you describe, and used a
short piece of wire to shunt the two unused terminals in all directions.

With power on this (from the battery) it could lead to a blow
fuse, or to a melted wire, depending on whether there *is* a fuse
somewhere in there.

No
go. I can only get it to work on one end. If I put the two supply wires on
the center pair, it works if I put the other two on either end terminal
pair. But when I put one on one end, and the other on the other end, and
use a shunt, I still can't get it to work.

It makes no sense to do this at all, unless I am misinterpreting
what you are saying.

You say that it works with the motor on either end. That is how
it should work -- except that there should be the cross-jumpers which I
drew above. Whether added externally to the switch, or built into the
switch remains to be determined.

Does the motor run in reverse with the switch in one position
and forward in the other position -- while connected to only one end?
If so -- then the cross jumpers are built in. If not, they are external
to the switch.

I got out the test light this
time, to see what was going on instead of the meter.

Hmm ... I would trust the meter more -- and was thinking that
you were using a test light in a previous reply.

I just left it, still scratching my head. I will try your approach
tomorrow. I have had enough of it for one day.

Besides, I just bought a new steering assembly which goes on MY boat, and
need to get it on there, and start doing some fishing.

Fish fear me.

So should fuses and wires. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

The problem was fixed today using the diagram provided. Middle pair used
for battery. Motor went to end pair, then that pair jumped and Xed to the
opposite end pair.

Works fine.

I imagine someone had altered it before I got it.

Steve

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:34:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

On 6/17/2012 5:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I had three-way and four-way light switches as a problem in college
physics class. Four-way light switches are wired the same as motor
reversing switches, often internally. They lack the center OFF
position.

I've had more than one 'Know it all electrician' tell me that you
could only use one four way switch in a string. Of course, they
preferred to sell those overpriced low voltage/relay systems to gullible
customers.

This room has a 3 - 4 - 3 setup in it now.

You can go 3 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 3 if you'd like, but wiring
it up gets so damn complicated, and you've got a half-ton of copper
involved, and then the troubleshooting when a switch goes bad... You
just give up and use the low-voltage relay system.

The relays are also good when the switches are for outside floodlights
at opposite ends of the house - you could put a 3-4-4-3 system at each
outside door, but push those electrons through 1000' of wire making
three laps around the house and you have voltage drop issues.

-- Bruce --

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
The problem was fixed today using the diagram provided. Middle pair
used for battery. Motor went to end pair, then that pair jumped and
Xed to the opposite end pair.

Works fine.

I imagine someone had altered it before I got it.

Steve

Glad to hear it.

Engineering is a visual, graphic process that doesn't translate to
text very well. In person we draw sketches, so writing purely textual
explanations here is a difficult but valuable exercise.

jsw

On 6/18/2012 12:27 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:34:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

On 6/17/2012 5:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I had three-way and four-way light switches as a problem in college
physics class. Four-way light switches are wired the same as motor
reversing switches, often internally. They lack the center OFF
position.

I've had more than one 'Know it all electrician' tell me that you
could only use one four way switch in a string. Of course, they
preferred to sell those overpriced low voltage/relay systems to gullible
customers.

This room has a 3 - 4 - 3 setup in it now.

You can go 3 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 3 if you'd like, but wiring
it up gets so damn complicated, and you've got a half-ton of copper
involved, and then the troubleshooting when a switch goes bad...


I've seen that in fancy homes with lots of bedrooms along a very
long hallway. A switch outside each door to control the lghting in the
hall. Troubleshooting is not any harder than finding a burnt out bulb
in a string of Christmas lights, or a series filament string in a radio
or TV. The ones I worked on were easy. Pick a switch near the middle
and remove the cover Carefully probe the switch while you have someone
flip one three way switch, then the other. Decide which direction is
the problem, and repeat.


You
just give up and use the low-voltage relay system.


This was in medium sized homes. They used id for single switches,
as well, and had a box full of crap in the attic. If the circuit
powered the relays failed, the entire house was dark.


The relays are also good when the switches are for outside floodlights
at opposite ends of the house - you could put a 3-4-4-3 system at each
outside door, but push those electrons through 1000' of wire making
three laps around the house and you have voltage drop issues.


That would be a _really_ big house.

The last circuit I saw like that was on a new college campus, and
the lights were on opposite sides of each wing. I wrote the specs for
the computer network & TV antenna system, then was called in to install
it. Before I left, if finished the prewire for the two fire alarm
systems & installed two burglar alarms. The campus was a combination
community college campus, and night adult education in a 'u' shape, and
shared admin building.

BTW, the fire alarm company told me that that was the first job site
that was ever pre-wired properly and not just once, but twice.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote


Engineering is a visual, graphic process that doesn't translate to text
very well. In person we draw sketches, so writing purely textual
explanations here is a difficult but valuable exercise.

jsw

I visualize things pretty well. But, I had a multitester first, then just a
test light, and I could not put it together. The diagram did it in an
instant. BTW, I do Sudoku a lot, and have two of them that are like the
Scrabble board games, complete with tiles so you can visualize it. The
system I have is a sequence of visualizations that I have learned over time,
and I can do them pretty fast. But this just got me.

Steve