I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

"Ignoramus6213" wrote in message
...
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i


I don't know & have never even fired a gun, however:

If you are standing close to directly behind the shooter your odds are
increased.
You can probably see a bullet out to 10 meters or so from behind. What is
the bullet's speed? How long would it take to travel the "visible" 10m?

1000 fps ~= 300m/s
T = 10/300 ~= 33mS

Not very long.

"rob" wrote in message
. au...

"Ignoramus6213" wrote in message
...
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i


I don't know & have never even fired a gun, however:

If you are standing close to directly behind the shooter your odds are
increased.
You can probably see a bullet out to 10 meters or so from behind. What is
the bullet's speed? How long would it take to travel the "visible" 10m?

1000 fps ~= 300m/s
T = 10/300 ~= 33mS

Not very long.

If you stand in the middle of the firing range, so that the bullet passes by
you at, say, 10-30 ft away, and you rotate yer head so that the angular
velocity subtended by yer eyes matches the angular velocity of the bullet
wrt to yer head, you have the best, uh, shot at actually seeing the bullet.

I believe you could, with some practice. Simple enough to do the calcs.
If 10-30 ft away requires an angular velocity/acceleration of the head/neck
that is muscularly unmanageable, this can be slowed by simply moving further
back (but still staying in the middle of the firing range), and mebbe with a
'scope or sumpn. You would also need a visual signal for when the trigger
is actually squeezed.
--
EA

On 2012-05-14, Existential Angst wrote:
"rob" wrote in message
. au...

"Ignoramus6213" wrote in message
...
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

Depends on the background illumination -- but looking along the
flight path is probably the best bet for seeing one before the size
dwindles too small to be seen as it leaves your vicinity.

[ ... ]

I don't know & have never even fired a gun, however:

If you are standing close to directly behind the shooter your odds are
increased.
You can probably see a bullet out to 10 meters or so from behind. What is
the bullet's speed? How long would it take to travel the "visible" 10m?

1000 fps ~= 300m/s
T = 10/300 ~= 33mS

Not very long.

But very short times can seem longer in the excitement of the
moment. :-0

If you stand in the middle of the firing range, so that the bullet passes by
you at, say, 10-30 ft away, and you rotate yer head so that the angular
velocity subtended by yer eyes matches the angular velocity of the bullet
wrt to yer head, you have the best, uh, shot at actually seeing the bullet.

I believe you could, with some practice. Simple enough to do the calcs.
If 10-30 ft away requires an angular velocity/acceleration of the head/neck
that is muscularly unmanageable, this can be slowed by simply moving further
back (but still staying in the middle of the firing range), and mebbe with a
'scope or sumpn. You would also need a visual signal for when the trigger
is actually squeezed.

You need a varying angular rate, as the angle goes fastest when
the bullet is at right angles to you.

If you want to try this (and have plenty of steel between you
and *all* of the guns uprange :-) the best bet would be a small rotating
mirror triggered by the sound of the gun firing. Even with that, it is
rather tricky to control the angle rate to keep the bullet in view. A
spring driven one would be accelerating the whole time from release,
unless the spring is at neutral near the right angle point. Perhaps add
on a small flywheel to control the rate of acceleration and
deceleration.

But personally -- I would not want to be in that part of the
range, no matter how good the steel between me and the firing line was. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-14, Existential Angst wrote:
"rob" wrote in message
. au...

"Ignoramus6213" wrote in message
...
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

Depends on the background illumination -- but looking along the
flight path is probably the best bet for seeing one before the size
dwindles too small to be seen as it leaves your vicinity.

[ ... ]

I don't know & have never even fired a gun, however:

If you are standing close to directly behind the shooter your odds are
increased.
You can probably see a bullet out to 10 meters or so from behind. What
is
the bullet's speed? How long would it take to travel the "visible" 10m?

1000 fps ~= 300m/s
T = 10/300 ~= 33mS

Not very long.

But very short times can seem longer in the excitement of the
moment. :-0

If you stand in the middle of the firing range, so that the bullet passes
by
you at, say, 10-30 ft away, and you rotate yer head so that the angular
velocity subtended by yer eyes matches the angular velocity of the bullet
wrt to yer head, you have the best, uh, shot at actually seeing the
bullet.

I believe you could, with some practice. Simple enough to do the calcs.
If 10-30 ft away requires an angular velocity/acceleration of the
head/neck
that is muscularly unmanageable, this can be slowed by simply moving
further
back (but still staying in the middle of the firing range), and mebbe
with a
'scope or sumpn. You would also need a visual signal for when the
trigger
is actually squeezed.

You need a varying angular rate, as the angle goes fastest when
the bullet is at right angles to you.

If you want to try this (and have plenty of steel between you
and *all* of the guns uprange :-) the best bet would be a small rotating
mirror triggered by the sound of the gun firing. Even with that, it is
rather tricky to control the angle rate to keep the bullet in view. A
spring driven one would be accelerating the whole time from release,
unless the spring is at neutral near the right angle point. Perhaps add
on a small flywheel to control the rate of acceleration and
deceleration.

But personally -- I would not want to be in that part of the
range, no matter how good the steel between me and the firing line was.
:-)

Enjoy,
DoN.



Agreed! Much safer to flick your vision across the screen of a CRT TV or the
muliplexed LEDs on a bedside clock or similar appliance.

Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i
Low velocity subsonic pistol bullets can be seen from behind . I've seen
muzzleloader balls/bullets myself - these are larger diameter and slower
than most pistol bullets however . A guy with keen eyesight and fast
reflexes might very well be able to see 9mm slugs in flight if conditions
are right . Neither my eyes nor my reflexes are capable of it ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 5/13/2012 8:49 PM, Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i


Very few shooters here?

Of course one can see a bullet fly, with the right lighting it's very
common thing with 22 caliber and 45 caliber handguns.

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i
Low velocity subsonic pistol bullets can be seen from behind . I've
seen muzzleloader balls/bullets myself - these are larger diameter and
slower than most pistol bullets however . A guy with keen eyesight and
fast reflexes might very well be able to see 9mm slugs in flight if
conditions are right . Neither my eyes nor my reflexes are capable of it
...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !


0:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggFKLxAQBbc

"Ignoramus6213" wrote in message
...
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a
few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard
to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

I've watched pistol tracers and was surprised by how slow they seem.

Brass-plated "Golden" BBs are visible in flight in bright sun against
a dark background. I think bullets could be if the jacket is plated
across the back, instead of dark lead. I've seen them as streaks on a
video and -maybe- at the range, as a bubble of distortion in the humid
air. My eyes can barely make out a 4" black bullseye at 100 meters.

On Mon, 14 May 2012 16:40:25 +0800, "rob"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i
Low velocity subsonic pistol bullets can be seen from behind . I've
seen muzzleloader balls/bullets myself - these are larger diameter and
slower than most pistol bullets however . A guy with keen eyesight and
fast reflexes might very well be able to see 9mm slugs in flight if
conditions are right . Neither my eyes nor my reflexes are capable of it
...


0:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggFKLxAQBbc

A _Most_Excellent_ Movie, Ted. (Or was that Bill?)

--
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the
necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create.
-- Raoul Vaneigem

Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

If you are behind the shooter and in line or very close to the
centerline of his shots you can see the bullet as it travels.
Larger diameter is easier to see.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 14 May 2012 09:10:28 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

If you are behind the shooter and in line or very close to the
centerline of his shots you can see the bullet as it travels.
Larger diameter is easier to see.

Or .22 match ammo in bright sunlight. My friend used to bring his
match rifle and Eley target ammo to a quarry where we'd shoot targets.
If I stood behind him, I could watch every round going downrange.

--
Ed Huntress

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:jor08d$d7j$1
@dont-email.me:

If you are behind the shooter and in line or very close to the
centerline of his shots you can see the bullet as it travels.
Larger diameter is easier to see.

I carried an M1 "Grease Gun" for part of my tour in 'Nam. You definitely
could see the rounds going downrange with that weapon. Of course, .45ACP
ain't a very high velocity round to start with.

OTOH, it was a good "brush gun".

LLoyd

In article ,
Ignoramus6213 wrote:

I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

I've seen bullets in flight as well, many times. Specifically, a 22
long rifle round flying out over a lake, so the background was distant.

Joe Gwinn

On 5/14/2012 6:18 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 09:10:28 -0400, "Steve
wrote:

Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

If you are behind the shooter and in line or very close to the
centerline of his shots you can see the bullet as it travels.
Larger diameter is easier to see.

Or .22 match ammo in bright sunlight. My friend used to bring his
match rifle and Eley target ammo to a quarry where we'd shoot targets.
If I stood behind him, I could watch every round going downrange.

I'll bet you could text on your smart phone and not miss a single round,
either.

On Mon, 14 May 2012 00:39:56 -0700, T.Alan Kraus wrote:

On 5/13/2012 8:49 PM, Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as they
flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i


Very few shooters here?

Of course one can see a bullet fly, with the right lighting it's very
common thing with 22 caliber and 45 caliber handguns.

I've certainly seen BB's coming out of a moderately good gun -- a clear
day with the sun at your back seems to help. Basically if the trajectory
is flat and your eye is close to the axis of the barrel, the bullet
doesn't move in your field of vision, no matter how rapidly it may be
shrinking.

But I haven't shot many 'real' guns, so I don't have direct experience.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Ignoramus6213 wrote:

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.


I quite often see bullets in flight. With rifles, I see them though the scope dropping in
on the target from outside my cone of vision. With pistols I need to be close to the line
of travel, have back lighting, and .45's are easier to see than smaller stuff.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 5/13/2012 8:49 PM, Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i
Certainly. I recall watching .22 bullets from my rifle when shooting
with a low setting sun at my back. Does that count?

Paul

"Paul Drahn" wrote in message
...
...
Certainly. I recall watching .22 bullets from my rifle when shooting
with a low setting sun at my back. Does that count?

Paul

Sure. You can see bright objects that are much smaller than your eyes
can resolve, like stars.

jsw

"Ignoramus6213" wrote in message
...
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

In a word, yes. It is amazing, but if you are lined up correctly, it is
really easy. And neat.

Steve

On 5/14/2012 2:08 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus6213 wrote:

I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

You are probably seeing the distortion in the air cause by the
shock wave radiating out behind the bullet. That is a much larger
phenomenon than the bullet itself. If the light is polarized,
as when reflected off water, windshields, etc. it turns the range
into a Schlieren camera which easily detects variations in air
density, and would make the effect much more visible.

Jon

I could see the dotted line.
Shooting down with an M3B (Chevrolet) .45 caliber from 200 feet...

Not often with Mr M60.
The tracers blind you to bullets.
Coming and going...

Ignoramus6213 wrote:

I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

You are probably seeing the distortion in the air cause by the
shock wave radiating out behind the bullet. That is a much larger
phenomenon than the bullet itself. If the light is polarized,
as when reflected off water, windshields, etc. it turns the range
into a Schlieren camera which easily detects variations in air
density, and would make the effect much more visible.

Jon

On 5/14/2012 6:46 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

I've seen bullets in flight as well, many times. Specifically, a 22
long rifle round flying out over a lake, so the background was distant.

Joe Gwinn

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc I bet it
would have been possible to see the slug coming back up range before it
skipped and hit the stupid shooter in the side of the head.

On Mon, 14 May 2012 09:10:28 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ignoramus6213 wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

If you are behind the shooter and in line or very close to the
centerline of his shots you can see the bullet as it travels.
Larger diameter is easier to see.

Isn't is the effects on the air surrounding the bullet that one sees,
rather than the projectile itself?

--
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the
necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create.
-- Raoul Vaneigem

On May 14, 6:19*pm, Ignoramus11276 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11276.invalid wrote:



I have hard times believing that this is a genuine movie.

I agree with you. Hard to come up with a reason one would be taking
video of someone shooting at a target that is far away. And why was
the photographer so far away. I would expect the photographer to be
closer and getting a nice full frame picture of the shooter. Also
there seems to very little recoil for a .50 caliber rifle and the
sound does not seem realistic to me.

Dan

On pistol ranges that run 2000+ fps loads for metal targets -
the spotter sees the bullet hit the place it lands. He is just off
and behind the bullet - so he sees some side of it - not just the tail.

With his or her eye, they see where on the target it hits and when it
is picked up again (after 5 shots) the resetter points to the hit spot.
Most often is where the spotter saw it.

Martin

On 5/14/2012 11:00 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On May 13, 9:49 pm,
wrote:
I was at a gun range today with a friend, shooting a 9mm hand gun.

When he was shooting, I was standing behind him, watching. After a few
shots, I realized that I may have seen a glimpse of the bullets as
they flew downrange.

I watched some more, and it did seem this way, although it was hard to
see them and the barrel flash did not clarify things.

I am wondering, if, perhaps, it is known that flying bullets of that
sort of size and speed can be actually seen.

i

Pistol bullets are easily seen. You have to be positioned just right
to see higher-speed bullets. .30 caliber bullets like from a .30-06
can be seen at about 50 yards on out, in my experience. I've never
seen a bullet in flight as a shooter, being more focused on the
sights. Just as a bystander.

Stan