A buddy of mine brought over some bending dies and asked me to change their
shape and size on the lathe. He also brought a brand new can of Tap Magic
as a gift for helping him out. The bending dies were very hard, and I tried
both oil and the Tap Magic. We went with the TM if for no other reason than
it smelled better.

Yesterday I was making a stepped shoulder pin with a head out of a bolt for
an special application. I was using the mini lathe just because I finally
got it into tolerable condition. I made a rough pass that stalled the lathe
and tripped off the over load. I reset it, put a couple drops of tap magic
on the work piece, and tried the pass again at the exact same DOC, feed,
RPM, etc. The cutter not only breezed right through it, but it looked
really good.

I think the jury is still out for tapping aluminum, but time will tell. I
have used it to tap some 10 32 holes nearly the full length of the cutting
portion of the tap, but I don't have that many holes on this tap yet.

Anyway, to whoever suggested Tap Magic. Thank you. I was planning on
ordering some sooner or later to try, and to my buddy who brought me a
can... a BIG THANK YOU. I now also know its available locally. Makes
getting more easier.

On Mar 13, 8:39*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
A buddy of mine brought over some bending dies and asked me to change their
shape and size on the lathe. *He also brought a brand new can of Tap Magic
as a gift for helping him out. *The bending dies were very hard, and I tried
both oil and the Tap Magic. *We went with the TM if for no other reason than
it smelled better.

Yesterday I was making a stepped shoulder pin with a head out of a bolt for
an special application. *I was using the mini lathe just because I finally
got it into tolerable condition. *I made a rough pass that stalled the lathe
and tripped off the over load. *I reset it, put a couple drops of tap magic
on the work piece, and tried the pass again at the exact same DOC, feed,
RPM, etc. *The cutter not only breezed right through it, but it looked
really good.

I think the jury is still out for tapping aluminum, but time will tell. *I
have used it to tap some 10 32 holes nearly the full length of the cutting
portion of the tap, but I don't have that many holes on this tap yet.

Anyway, to whoever suggested Tap Magic. *Thank you. *I was planning on
ordering some sooner or later to try, and to my buddy who brought me a
can... a BIG THANK YOU. *I now also know its available locally. *Makes
getting more easier.

Also, it made a huge difference in parting steel.

These results demonstrate the practical reasons for using cutting
lubricants.. they reduce the amount of power required to cut metal.
Regular oils won't accomplish the same increase in cutting performance.

An additional benefit is reduced dulling of the sharp cutting tool edges. By
increasing cutting tool performance, the wear on the cutting edges is
reduced.

Seeing the improvement in surface finish is visible evidence that the
cutting lubricant is enhancing the cutting action taking place.

There is the same improvement whether the machine's motor is rated 400W or
4HP.

Not having the machine's protection circuit activate is another indication
that the edge of the cutting tool is performing better than it had been
without a cutting lube.
One doesn't need to utilize a pump and recovery system for cutting
lubricants.. just dribbling or brushing a small amount of lube in the
cutting path area is all that's required in most cases.

I've previously mentioned a great product I discovered only because a friend
gave me a bottle of it.. Lenox ProTool Lube. The PTL product is much cleaner
to use than thick sulfur oils.. it washes off with water, which means that
clearing a tapped hole can be done with a trigger spray bottle of water.
PTL doesn't contain any silicones, so it doesn't affect any paint or other
coatings which may be applied after it's use. I generally just wipe down
parts with lacquer thinner or a naptha solvent prior to applying primer and
paint.

I routinely use PTL for any metal cutting application, and apply it with
lab-type washdown bottles, which is much more convenient than typical bottle
application, because the washdown bottle has a long plastic tip to put the
liquid right where it's needed.
Small cheap natural bristle brushes also work well for applying a cutting
lube.

The only unexpected property I discovered is that PTL will soften the low
grade paint products on Chinese machines.. it doesn't have this effect on
other cured paint products IME.

--
WB
..........


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
A buddy of mine brought over some bending dies and asked me to change their
shape and size on the lathe. He also brought a brand new can of Tap Magic
as a gift for helping him out. The bending dies were very hard, and I
tried both oil and the Tap Magic. We went with the TM if for no other
reason than it smelled better.

Yesterday I was making a stepped shoulder pin with a head out of a bolt
for an special application. I was using the mini lathe just because I
finally got it into tolerable condition. I made a rough pass that stalled
the lathe and tripped off the over load. I reset it, put a couple drops
of tap magic on the work piece, and tried the pass again at the exact same
DOC, feed, RPM, etc. The cutter not only breezed right through it, but it
looked really good.

I think the jury is still out for tapping aluminum, but time will tell. I
have used it to tap some 10 32 holes nearly the full length of the cutting
portion of the tap, but I don't have that many holes on this tap yet.

Anyway, to whoever suggested Tap Magic. Thank you. I was planning on
ordering some sooner or later to try, and to my buddy who brought me a
can... a BIG THANK YOU. I now also know its available locally. Makes
getting more easier.

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:02:29 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

snip


I've previously mentioned a great product I discovered only because a friend
gave me a bottle of it.. Lenox ProTool Lube. The PTL product is much cleaner
to use than thick sulfur oils..

(It's a proprietary synthetic of some kind.) Not to confuse the issue,
but sulfated cutting oils are not thick. You may be thinking of
sulfated thread-cutting oil, the kind that's sold for threading pipe.

--
Ed Huntress

Yep, stinky, thick, high sulfur thread cutting oil commonly used as a
cutting lube by HSMs. It's definitely effective, but also messy.

None-the-less, the ProTool Lube cleanly rinses away with water.

Yeah, proprietary and biodegradable, but that's not my reason for liking
it's usefulness.. and I probably wouldn't have bought the stuff if I'd
looked at the label and spotted the biodegradable claim (incorrectly
assuming that would likely mean non-effective).
The friend that gave me my first bottle didn't know if it was a decent
product (couldn't even remember where he'd gotten it), but I liked the stuff
from the first few times I used it.
Fastenal used to carry it, but they've stopped (even though they carry
numerous Lenox cutting lubes).. I found more PTL recently on eBag.

Lenox p/n 68040 6 fl oz bottle (also available in gal/128 oz and pails).

--
WB
..........


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:02:29 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

snip


I've previously mentioned a great product I discovered only because a
friend
gave me a bottle of it.. Lenox ProTool Lube. The PTL product is much
cleaner
to use than thick sulfur oils..

(It's a proprietary synthetic of some kind.) Not to confuse the issue,
but sulfated cutting oils are not thick. You may be thinking of
sulfated thread-cutting oil, the kind that's sold for threading pipe.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:07:06 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Yep, stinky, thick, high sulfur thread cutting oil commonly used as a
cutting lube by HSMs. It's definitely effective, but also messy.

None-the-less, the ProTool Lube cleanly rinses away with water.

Yeah, proprietary and biodegradable, but that's not my reason for liking
it's usefulness.. and I probably wouldn't have bought the stuff if I'd
looked at the label and spotted the biodegradable claim (incorrectly
assuming that would likely mean non-effective).

I do that too. I look for the skull and crossbones. d8-)

The friend that gave me my first bottle didn't know if it was a decent
product (couldn't even remember where he'd gotten it), but I liked the stuff
from the first few times I used it.
Fastenal used to carry it, but they've stopped (even though they carry
numerous Lenox cutting lubes).. I found more PTL recently on eBag.

Lenox p/n 68040 6 fl oz bottle (also available in gal/128 oz and pails).

Lenox makes good products. I wouldn't hesitate to try the stuff. Maybe
I will after my current can of Buttercut runs out -- or goes rancid
first.

Synthetics are highly regarded in production machining. But there
appear to be a wide variety of chemical compounds that are called
"synthetics." Not knowing chemistry, I don't know the implications of
"amine complex," which is what Lenox PTL is.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2012-03-14, Bob La Londe wrote:
A buddy of mine brought over some bending dies and asked me to change their
shape and size on the lathe. He also brought a brand new can of Tap Magic
as a gift for helping him out. The bending dies were very hard, and I tried
both oil and the Tap Magic. We went with the TM if for no other reason than
it smelled better.

1,1,1, Trichlor -- if it is the original TapMagic.

Yesterday I was making a stepped shoulder pin with a head out of a bolt for
an special application. I was using the mini lathe just because I finally
got it into tolerable condition. I made a rough pass that stalled the lathe
and tripped off the over load. I reset it, put a couple drops of tap magic
on the work piece, and tried the pass again at the exact same DOC, feed,
RPM, etc. The cutter not only breezed right through it, but it looked
really good.

I think the jury is still out for tapping aluminum, but time will tell. I
have used it to tap some 10 32 holes nearly the full length of the cutting
portion of the tap, but I don't have that many holes on this tap yet.

If yours does not have the words "For Aluminum" on there
somewhere, and especially if it is the original formula, start tapping
aluminum and you will get smoke coming out of the interface, and a brown
stain on both the workpiece and the tap. I learned this the hard way
with a sample sized bottle. :-)

Anyway, to whoever suggested Tap Magic. Thank you.

I was at least one of those -- and I was specific about looking
for the original formula for use on hard steel -- the one which says
"Don't use for aluminum" on the can. :-)

I was planning on
ordering some sooner or later to try, and to my buddy who brought me a
can... a BIG THANK YOU. I now also know its available locally. Makes
getting more easier.

That helps indeed. Especially if you can find the original
formula there. That is somewhat harder to find, because the 1,1,1
Trichlor is considered a carcinogen. But I don't need to use it very
often, and I've already got enough years on this chassis so I figure
that I'll risk it.

I also got exposed to a lot of it when developing printed
circuit board photo-resist.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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....
That helps indeed. Especially if you can find the original
formula there. That is somewhat harder to find, because the 1,1,1
Trichlor is considered a carcinogen. But I don't need to use it very
often, and I've already got enough years on this chassis so I figure
that I'll risk it.

I also got exposed to a lot of it when developing printed
circuit board photo-resist.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Shoot, i didn't know they changed it. I swiped a couple quarts in 1982
and is has lasted till now. I'm down to maybe 1/2 the small tin left.
Any place other than eBay to search for it?

Karl

On 2012-03-15, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
That helps indeed. Especially if you can find the original
formula there. That is somewhat harder to find, because the 1,1,1
Trichlor is considered a carcinogen. But I don't need to use it very
often, and I've already got enough years on this chassis so I figure
that I'll risk it.

I also got exposed to a lot of it when developing printed
circuit board photo-resist.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Shoot, i didn't know they changed it. I swiped a couple quarts in 1982
and is has lasted till now. I'm down to maybe 1/2 the small tin left.
Any place other than eBay to search for it?

I don't know for sure. I got mine (a couple of cans) when Scott
Logan did a group purchase a few years ago. Not sure whether he can
still get it or not.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Karl Townsend wrote in
:

...
That helps indeed. Especially if you can find the original
formula there. That is somewhat harder to find, because the 1,1,1
Trichlor is considered a carcinogen. But I don't need to use it very
often, and I've already got enough years on this chassis so I figure
that I'll risk it.

I also got exposed to a lot of it when developing printed
circuit board photo-resist.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Shoot, i didn't know they changed it. I swiped a couple quarts in 1982
and is has lasted till now. I'm down to maybe 1/2 the small tin left.
Any place other than eBay to search for it?

Actually, you are now dealing with at least Rev 3. The ORIGINAL Tap
Magic (early 1960's?) not only worked really well on both aluminum &
steel, but it smelled really nice, like cinnamon. I don't know why they
changed, but that's when they came out with the two flavors, one for
aluminum, and one for everything else. I remember the smoke & purple
bubbling mess when I tried some of the wrong stuff on aluminum. Now they
have Tap Magic "Pro Tap", which works on everything again.

I gave up years ago & now use Cool Tool for pretty much everything. Of
course it has been tweaked as well, and is now Cool Tool II.

Doug White

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2012-03-14, Bob La Londe wrote:
A buddy of mine brought over some bending dies and asked me to change
their
shape and size on the lathe. He also brought a brand new can of Tap
Magic
as a gift for helping him out. The bending dies were very hard, and I
tried
both oil and the Tap Magic. We went with the TM if for no other reason
than
it smelled better.

1,1,1, Trichlor -- if it is the original TapMagic.

Its not. Specifically says it doesn't contain that stuff. Still it works
pretty darn good. I tried some 3D mold making with just a few drops of that
rubbed on the surface, and an air blast. I tried the same mold (reverse
cavity) first with just the air blast. Upon close inspection the one with
just the air blast was decent, but I could see a few tiny spots of galling
or tearing. With just a couple drops of Tap Magic and an air blast it was
nice clean tool marks from edge tot edge and end to end. Wow! I have to
say it works pretty good with aluminum too.

It says "For All Metals" on the can, and lists just about anything I could
imagine having a need to machine from iconnel to brass. Still I take my
snake oil with a dash of salt. I have to say that it does make a huge
difference on what I have tried though.

On 2012-03-16, Bob La Londe wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2012-03-14, Bob La Londe wrote:
A buddy of mine brought over some bending dies and asked me to change
their
shape and size on the lathe. He also brought a brand new can of Tap
Magic
as a gift for helping him out. The bending dies were very hard, and I
tried
both oil and the Tap Magic. We went with the TM if for no other reason
than
it smelled better.

1,1,1, Trichlor -- if it is the original TapMagic.

Its not. Specifically says it doesn't contain that stuff.

O.K. The later form, then.

Still it works
pretty darn good. I tried some 3D mold making with just a few drops of that
rubbed on the surface, and an air blast. I tried the same mold (reverse
cavity) first with just the air blast. Upon close inspection the one with
just the air blast was decent, but I could see a few tiny spots of galling
or tearing. With just a couple drops of Tap Magic and an air blast it was
nice clean tool marks from edge tot edge and end to end. Wow! I have to
say it works pretty good with aluminum too.

Which it would not with the 1,1,1, Trichlor in it. :-)

It says "For All Metals" on the can, and lists just about anything I could
imagine having a need to machine from iconnel to brass. Still I take my
snake oil with a dash of salt. I have to say that it does make a huge
difference on what I have tried though.

That is what matters. I keep my can of the old style for really
tough jobs, and use the more modern for most things -- and especially
Aluminum (if it is something a bit beyond what WD-40 will work well for.
It is pretty good for aluminum work.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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