On 2/13/2012 1:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:53:05 -0800, George
wrote:

On 2/12/2012 2:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:44:47 -0700, "Ray Keller"DESPERATE RIGHTARD
TROLL wrote:

DEFINING AND UNDERSTANDING THE LEFT

The origins of the modern left can be traced back to the famous passage in
Rousseau’s Discourse on the Origin and Foundations of Inequality, in which
he condemned the institution of private property:

Idiot. How many Americans "on the left," or on the right, for that
matter, have read Rousseau's Second Discourse?

The origins of the social attitudes of the "modern left" are derived
from Christianity.


No, they aren't. Where do you /get/ that **** from?

You're an idiot, Plimpton. When you apologize for calling me a "liar,"
after I showed you how dimwitted you were in your last analysis, we
can speak.

Meantime, you're beneath contempt.



****, Ed, that's where he lives with the rest of the libertarian space
cases, beneath contempt.

Hawke

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:22:46 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 1:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:53:05 -0800, George
wrote:

On 2/12/2012 2:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:44:47 -0700, "Ray Keller"DESPERATE RIGHTARD
TROLL wrote:

DEFINING AND UNDERSTANDING THE LEFT

The origins of the modern left can be traced back to the famous passage in
Rousseau’s Discourse on the Origin and Foundations of Inequality, in which
he condemned the institution of private property:

Idiot. How many Americans "on the left," or on the right, for that
matter, have read Rousseau's Second Discourse?

The origins of the social attitudes of the "modern left" are derived
from Christianity.


No, they aren't. Where do you /get/ that **** from?

You're an idiot, Plimpton. When you apologize for calling me a "liar,"
after I showed you how dimwitted you were in your last analysis, we
can speak.

Meantime, you're beneath contempt.



****, Ed, that's where he lives with the rest of the libertarian space
cases, beneath contempt.

Hawke

Oh, I wouldn't say that. Libertarians are a curious lot, but most of
them are pretty decent. Plimpton is just one of those lazy and
egotistical types who thinks he's really superior, and shouldn't have
to lift a finger to support his insults and invective.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/14/2012 1:04 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:22:46 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 1:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:53:05 -0800, George
wrote:

On 2/12/2012 2:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:44:47 -0700, "Ray Keller"DESPERATE RIGHTARD
TROLL wrote:

DEFINING AND UNDERSTANDING THE LEFT

The origins of the modern left can be traced back to the famous passage in
Rousseau’s Discourse on the Origin and Foundations of Inequality, in which
he condemned the institution of private property:

Idiot. How many Americans "on the left," or on the right, for that
matter, have read Rousseau's Second Discourse?

The origins of the social attitudes of the "modern left" are derived
from Christianity.


No, they aren't. Where do you /get/ that **** from?

You're an idiot, Plimpton. When you apologize for calling me a "liar,"
after I showed you how dimwitted you were in your last analysis, we
can speak.

Meantime, you're beneath contempt.



****, Ed, that's where he lives with the rest of the libertarian space
cases, beneath contempt.

Hawke

Oh, I wouldn't say that. Libertarians are a curious lot, but most of
them are pretty decent. Plimpton is just one of those lazy and
egotistical types who thinks he's really superior, and shouldn't have
to lift a finger to support his insults and invective.



It's a relatively new phenomenon to me, but in the last decade or so
I've found that everyone on the right thinks they are superior to
everyone else. This is a change. In the past most people on the right,
except for the business type, were kind of humble. They saw themselves
as average, hard working people. Now, at least all the men, think
they're better than anyone else. They sure think they are better than
they are. I'm just wondering what happened to bring about this change
and made them think so highly of themselves. Think of it, when was the
last time you ran into a right winger that was the least bit humble?

Hawke

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:22:52 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/14/2012 1:04 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:22:46 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 1:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:53:05 -0800, George
wrote:

On 2/12/2012 2:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:44:47 -0700, "Ray Keller"DESPERATE RIGHTARD
TROLL wrote:

DEFINING AND UNDERSTANDING THE LEFT

The origins of the modern left can be traced back to the famous passage in
Rousseau’s Discourse on the Origin and Foundations of Inequality, in which
he condemned the institution of private property:

Idiot. How many Americans "on the left," or on the right, for that
matter, have read Rousseau's Second Discourse?

The origins of the social attitudes of the "modern left" are derived
from Christianity.


No, they aren't. Where do you /get/ that **** from?

You're an idiot, Plimpton. When you apologize for calling me a "liar,"
after I showed you how dimwitted you were in your last analysis, we
can speak.

Meantime, you're beneath contempt.



****, Ed, that's where he lives with the rest of the libertarian space
cases, beneath contempt.

Hawke

Oh, I wouldn't say that. Libertarians are a curious lot, but most of
them are pretty decent. Plimpton is just one of those lazy and
egotistical types who thinks he's really superior, and shouldn't have
to lift a finger to support his insults and invective.



It's a relatively new phenomenon to me, but in the last decade or so
I've found that everyone on the right thinks they are superior to
everyone else. This is a change. In the past most people on the right,
except for the business type, were kind of humble. They saw themselves
as average, hard working people. Now, at least all the men, think
they're better than anyone else. They sure think they are better than
they are. I'm just wondering what happened to bring about this change
and made them think so highly of themselves. Think of it, when was the
last time you ran into a right winger that was the least bit humble?

Hawke

It's the Internet. I've watched it develop since I was first online,
in 1983.

They act like a mob. On the whole, they are the most other-directed
and least-independent-minded people I've ever seen in my life.

--
Ed Huntress

Hawke wrote:




It's a relatively new phenomenon to me, but in the last decade or so
I've found that everyone on the right thinks they are superior to
everyone else. This is a change. In the past most people on the right,
except for the business type, were kind of humble. They saw themselves
as average, hard working people. Now, at least all the men, think
they're better than anyone else.

Gee, you sure are well traveled, and know a lot of people, to have
met, talked to and analyze the personality of everyone that would
describe them selves as "on the right".


They sure think they are better than
they are. I'm just wondering what happened to bring about this change
and made them think so highly of themselves.
Gee lets analyze it, hummmmm.... what is the common denominator,....oh
yeah interaction with you.

Think of it, when was the
last time you ran into a right winger that was the least bit humble?
Weekly, if not daily. But then I live in an area with wingers of both
varieties Being near a College town in a rural area will do that.

jk

Ed Huntress wrote:


It's the Internet. I've watched it develop since I was first online,
in 1983.

They act like a mob. On the whole, they are the most other-directed
and least-independent-minded people I've ever seen in my life.


Could be, I don't think it is the right, or the left that is the
issue. THe Internet shortens the time on their feedback loop, so
that any extreme gets more so, left, right, tinfoil beanie, or just
plain wierd.
jk

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:15:01 -0800, jk wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:


It's the Internet. I've watched it develop since I was first online,
in 1983.

They act like a mob. On the whole, they are the most other-directed
and least-independent-minded people I've ever seen in my life.


Could be, I don't think it is the right, or the left that is the
issue. THe Internet shortens the time on their feedback loop, so
that any extreme gets more so, left, right, tinfoil beanie, or just
plain wierd.
jk

Yeah, that's probably true. They also find each other here so much
more easily than in the real world. And anonymity helps. If they're
really white trash inside, they can let it all hang out and they'll
find like-minded trash to reinforce them.

It's quite a phenomenon. I'll bet that PhD-candidates in social
psychology are having a field day.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/15/2012 5:23 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:15:01 -0800, wrote:

Ed wrote:


It's the Internet. I've watched it develop since I was first online,
in 1983.

They act like a mob. On the whole, they are the most other-directed
and least-independent-minded people I've ever seen in my life.


Could be, I don't think it is the right, or the left that is the
issue. THe Internet shortens the time on their feedback loop, so
that any extreme gets more so, left, right, tinfoil beanie, or just
plain wierd.
jk

Yeah, that's probably true. They also find each other here so much
more easily than in the real world. And anonymity helps. If they're
really white trash inside, they can let it all hang out and they'll
find like-minded trash to reinforce them.

It's quite a phenomenon. I'll bet that PhD-candidates in social
psychology are having a field day.



IF they can get grant funding to study it...

On 2/15/2012 3:22 PM, Hawke wrote:

It's a relatively new phenomenon to me, but in the last decade or so
I've found that everyone on the right thinks they are superior to
everyone else. This is a change. In the past most people on the right,
except for the business type, were kind of humble. They saw themselves
as average, hard working people. Now, at least all the men, think
they're better than anyone else. They sure think they are better than
they are. I'm just wondering what happened to bring about this change
and made them think so highly of themselves. Think of it, when was the
last time you ran into a right winger that was the least bit humble?

Hawke

This might be another new revelation, but there are more dimensions to
American politics than just Left/right. That seems to be about as far
as the media can count, but a more accurate model would be a sphere.

Think spherical trig - and that's why the media can't report it that
way.

But it would be a better indicator of position than simply which way
people standing on the exact same line - face...

Richard wrote:


This might be another new revelation, but there are more dimensions to
American politics than just Left/right. That seems to be about as far
as the media can count, but a more accurate model would be a sphere.

Think spherical trig - and that's why the media can't report it that
way.

But it would be a better indicator of position than simply which way
people standing on the exact same line - face...

Needs an N dimensional sphere, where N is the total sum of numbers of
anything that anyone gives a care about.
jk

On 2/15/2012 6:12 PM, jk wrote:
wrote:


This might be another new revelation, but there are more dimensions to
American politics than just Left/right. That seems to be about as far
as the media can count, but a more accurate model would be a sphere.

Think spherical trig - and that's why the media can't report it that
way.

But it would be a better indicator of position than simply which way
people standing on the exact same line - face...

Needs an N dimensional sphere, where N is the total sum of numbers of
anything that anyone gives a care about.
jk


Yes, but we would call those "issues".

Richard wrote:

On 2/15/2012 6:12 PM, jk wrote:
wrote:

This might be another new revelation, but there are more dimensions to
American politics than just Left/right. That seems to be about as far
as the media can count, but a more accurate model would be a sphere.
Think spherical trig - and that's why the media can't report it that
way.
But it would be a better indicator of position than simply which way
people standing on the exact same line - face...

Needs an N dimensional sphere, where N is the total sum of numbers of
anything that anyone gives a care about.
jk

Yes, but we would call those "issues".

I think issues are what the media thinks we care about, or more often
WANTS us to care about.
jk

On 2/15/2012 3:15 PM, jk wrote:
Ed wrote:


It's the Internet. I've watched it develop since I was first online,
in 1983.

They act like a mob. On the whole, they are the most other-directed
and least-independent-minded people I've ever seen in my life.


Could be, I don't think it is the right, or the left that is the
issue. THe Internet shortens the time on their feedback loop, so
that any extreme gets more so, left, right, tinfoil beanie, or just
plain wierd.
jk


I've also seen this change in young people as well. So it's not just
right wing men that now think so highly of their views they can't keep
them to themselves. It's a lot of younger people too. In the past young
people were usually kind of shy and reluctant to voice their opinions on
things. No I see them acting way more aggressively and acting like
whatever they think is the right way and that they know more than older
and more experienced people. So I am seeing this same behavior in at
least two different groups; right wing men and young people of both sexes.


Today it's not uncommon to see a 17 year old arguing with a 40 year old
over one thing or another. The young person doesn't defer to the older
or act as if they understand they older person has far more experience
than they do. Right wing men are doing the same thing. Uneducated
conservative males feel no compunctions about attacking, or denigrating
the views of far better educated liberals or anyone else. It's like the
uneducated and ill informed now feel cocky and arrogant in their views
and that they're equivalent to anyone's. It's like a high school
football player who thinks his views on the game are just as important
and as valuable as the views of pro players and pro coaches. They're
not, never have been, and never will be, but they are sure convinced
they are. It's like the Dunning-Kruger effect has infected a large part
of the population.

Hawke

Hawke wrote:




I've also seen this change in young people as well. So it's not just
right wing men that now think so highly of their views they can't keep
them to themselves. It's a lot of younger people too. In the past young
people were usually kind of shy and reluctant to voice their opinions on
things.
Right, so you got older. We have heard this complaint against the
young, as long as there has been recorded history.



Today it's not uncommon to see a 17 year old arguing with a 40 year old
over one thing or another. The young person doesn't defer to the older
or act as if they understand they older person has far more experience
than they do.
Which doesn't make them right, just older.

Right wing men are doing the same thing. Uneducated
conservative males feel no compunctions about attacking, or denigrating
the views of far better educated liberals or anyone else.
As do young Liberals, old liberals, young conservatives, educated
folks, ignorant folds and even the just plain dumb folks.

It's like the
uneducated and ill informed now feel cocky and arrogant in their views
and that they're equivalent to anyone's.

It's like a high school
football player who thinks his views on the game are just as important
and as valuable as the views of pro players and pro coaches.
And it is NOT impossible that they are. Yes it is LESS likely, but
not impossible.
They're
not, never have been, and never will be, but they are sure convinced
they are.

Yes, now THAT is the sign of an open mind. " never have been, never
will be, why dem other folks with (shudder) different ideas, are just
plain wrong. How dare they get so uppity".


That thinking would have us still living in trees, and caves,
wondering what good a rock was.

God forbid you should think some one younger than you, or even yes a
redneck might have a good idea.

Why I bet you even know more about NASCAR than the rednecks younger
than you do. After all ", never have been, and never will be, but
they are sure convinced they are."

jk