Not so long ago there was a thread about cutting circular shapes out
of plate steel. The cheapest solution was stamping and somebody kindly
posted a link to Wagner Co. which has a great assortment of such discs
at a reasonable cost (about $1.85 a disc, depending on quantity). The
problem was shipping - UPS only and $$$ across the border.

Cutting the discs by plasma - $6 a disc, water jet - $10.

After I failed to find anyone prepared to stamp 2-7/8" diameter, 3/16"
thick discs within 150 km of here I approached Wagner who kindly
pointed me to a couple of Canadian distributors - one in Vancouver,
one in Ontario.

Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!

Admittedly their ordering procedure is weird and it took two e-mails
and a phone call to get some idea of the total cost (the e-mail and
phone call quotes for shipping were different) but I eventually placed
the order and we shall see what pans out.

If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

wrote in message
...
...
Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!
...
If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Perhaps you found someone who already had the right tooling left over from a
previous job.

Welcome to the messy world of the build-or-buy decision that confounds small
outfits developing new products. One of the reasons I first learned machine
shop practice was to better understand production engineering. I inventoried
the punch collection for the shop's Strippit press and tried not to specify
hole sizes outside it. I wish electrical engineers would similarly bother
themselves to learn the standard resistor values and tolerances instead of
calling out 5K and expecting it exactly.

jsw

On Sep 8, 12:11*am, wrote:
Not so long ago there was a thread about cutting circular shapes out
of plate steel. The cheapest solution was stamping and somebody kindly
posted a link to Wagner Co. which has a great assortment of such discs
at a reasonable cost (about $1.85 a disc, depending on quantity). The
problem was shipping - UPS only and $$$ across the border.

Cutting the discs by plasma - $6 a disc, water jet - $10.

After I failed to find anyone prepared to stamp 2-7/8" diameter, 3/16"
thick discs within 150 km of here I approached Wagner who kindly
pointed me to a couple of Canadian distributors - one in Vancouver,
one in Ontario.

Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!

Admittedly their ordering procedure is weird and it took two e-mails
and a phone call to get some idea of the total cost (the e-mail and
phone call quotes for shipping were different) but I eventually placed
the order and we shall see what pans out.

If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I suspect it's simply a reflection of the broader market for the
pieces cut to a whole number dimension. I'd also bet the price goes
up more the finer the fraction you want whole-half-quarter, etc.

Just my guess,
--Glenn Lyford

On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 21:11:32 -0700, wrote:

Not so long ago there was a thread about cutting circular shapes out
of plate steel. The cheapest solution was stamping and somebody kindly
posted a link to Wagner Co. which has a great assortment of such discs
at a reasonable cost (about $1.85 a disc, depending on quantity). The
problem was shipping - UPS only and $$$ across the border.

Cutting the discs by plasma - $6 a disc, water jet - $10.

After I failed to find anyone prepared to stamp 2-7/8" diameter, 3/16"
thick discs within 150 km of here I approached Wagner who kindly
pointed me to a couple of Canadian distributors - one in Vancouver,
one in Ontario.

Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!

Admittedly their ordering procedure is weird and it took two e-mails
and a phone call to get some idea of the total cost (the e-mail and
phone call quotes for shipping were different) but I eventually placed
the order and we shall see what pans out.

If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

A high price is the quickest, easiest way to tell a customer,"No". I
do it all the time when a tire kicker calls me.

Karl

On Sep 8, 12:11*am, wrote:



Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!


If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I have no real idea, but possibly some one was paying for 3 inch
diameter holes in some 3/16 material.

Dan

On 9/8/2011 6:38 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
...
Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!
...
If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Perhaps you found someone who already had the right tooling left over from a
previous job.

Welcome to the messy world of the build-or-buy decision that confounds small
outfits developing new products. One of the reasons I first learned machine
shop practice was to better understand production engineering. I inventoried
the punch collection for the shop's Strippit press and tried not to specify
hole sizes outside it. I wish electrical engineers would similarly bother
themselves to learn the standard resistor values and tolerances instead of
calling out 5K and expecting it exactly.

jsw

How about engineers who design for 1/16", 1/8" or 3/16" steel sheet
metal when the sheet metal industry uses 16ga(.059"), 11ga(.119") and
7ga(.180")?

David

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:51:41 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 9/8/2011 6:38 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
...
Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!
...
If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Perhaps you found someone who already had the right tooling left over from a
previous job.

Welcome to the messy world of the build-or-buy decision that confounds small
outfits developing new products. One of the reasons I first learned machine
shop practice was to better understand production engineering. I inventoried
the punch collection for the shop's Strippit press and tried not to specify
hole sizes outside it. I wish electrical engineers would similarly bother
themselves to learn the standard resistor values and tolerances instead of
calling out 5K and expecting it exactly.

jsw

How about engineers who design for 1/16", 1/8" or 3/16" steel sheet
metal when the sheet metal industry uses 16ga(.059"), 11ga(.119") and
7ga(.180")?

David
No different than the construction businedd, designing for 2X4 or
2X6, or 1/2" plywood - when they are 1.5X3.5 or 1.5X5.5 and 12mm

David R. Birch wrote:
On 9/8/2011 6:38 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
...
Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!
...
If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Perhaps you found someone who already had the right tooling left over
from a
previous job.

Welcome to the messy world of the build-or-buy decision that
confounds small
outfits developing new products. One of the reasons I first learned
machine
shop practice was to better understand production engineering. I
inventoried
the punch collection for the shop's Strippit press and tried not to
specify
hole sizes outside it. I wish electrical engineers would similarly
bother
themselves to learn the standard resistor values and tolerances
instead of
calling out 5K and expecting it exactly.

jsw

How about engineers who design for 1/16", 1/8" or 3/16" steel sheet
metal when the sheet metal industry uses 16ga(.059"), 11ga(.119") and
7ga(.180")?

David
That'll be effected by where in the world you get your supplies and the
materials concerned. In the UK I used to be able to buy 16swg sheet
steel (0.065") and it was, and now that is normally 1.5mm for steel and
it seems a lot of mills are rolling to bottom tolerance to get a few
more sheets out of a ton and I've seen it down to 1.4mm or just below.

A company I used to work for had a part with a spacer dimensioned at
0.065" and that was made from 16swg sheet and had not caused any problem
when made in the UK for many years but when it went to be made in China
they couldn't get it as the sheet thicknesses they used were either US
gauge or metric and not close enough.

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:51:41 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:


On 9/8/2011 6:38 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

wrote in message
...

...
Vancouver only had a limited choice. They were prepared to get them
from Wagner if I was prepared to wait 6 weeks and pay - $12 a disc!

Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!
...
If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Perhaps you found someone who already had the right tooling left over from a
previous job.

Welcome to the messy world of the build-or-buy decision that confounds small
outfits developing new products. One of the reasons I first learned machine
shop practice was to better understand production engineering. I inventoried
the punch collection for the shop's Strippit press and tried not to specify
hole sizes outside it. I wish electrical engineers would similarly bother
themselves to learn the standard resistor values and tolerances instead of
calling out 5K and expecting it exactly.

jsw

How about engineers who design for 1/16", 1/8" or 3/16" steel sheet
metal when the sheet metal industry uses 16ga(.059"), 11ga(.119") and
7ga(.180")?

David

No different than the construction businedd, designing for 2X4 or
2X6, or 1/2" plywood - when they are 1.5X3.5 or 1.5X5.5 and 12mm

I can remember talking to an old gent at a lumber yard on Long Island,
NY, and he said he could remember the days when a 2x 4 was a 2x4 and he
was referring to planed and prepared, then they started to shrink to
what we have today. He reckoned it was a ploy to get a few more pieces
out of a log and make a bit more money. Do they really need to take a
1/4" off each side to clean up rough sawn to a 2x4 planed and prepared.

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
... I can remember talking to an old gent at a lumber yard on Long
Island, NY, and he said he could remember the days when a 2x 4 was a 2x4
and he was referring to planed and prepared, then they started to shrink
to what we have today. He reckoned it was a ploy to get a few more pieces
out of a log and make a bit more money. Do they really need to take a 1/4"
off each side to clean up rough sawn to a 2x4 planed and prepared.

I'm an old enough gent to remember my father buying full dimension 2x4s to
remodel my grandfather's ~1890 house. When he needed modern (1950s)
dimensions the yard hand would run it through a planer on the end of the
sales counter. IIRC the accepted spec was 1-5/8" x 3-5/8".

I fell, saw, dry and plane my own oak lumber. With the warping and cupping
1-1/2 green barely cleans up to 1-1/8". I had hoped for 5/4". They are 10"
wide which is more susceptible to cupping than a 2x4, but for construction
all widths need to have the same thickness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber
See, we really are Metric, they just haven't informed the carpenters yet.
19mm = 0.748".

jsw

On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:04:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sep 8, 12:11*am, wrote:



Ontario has a slightly better choice and I was able to order 3" diam
3/16" discs for - $0.78 a disc!


If anyone can explain the economics of this feel free to enlighten me.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I have no real idea, but possibly some one was paying for 3 inch
diameter holes in some 3/16 material.


The discs are all supposed to be supplied by Wagner The very same disc
in the same quantity is sold by Wagner for $1.85.

I can see the other vendor saying *no* by sticking on 550% markup -
but why? It took 3 e-mails to get to that point. Somebody got paid for
that. Just say no!

I am beginning to believe that this "bad economy" is a figment of my
imagination and I do not just base it on this episode.

I asked 4 companies to give me an estimate on a $1000 job. Two did not
turn up. One did and never sent an estimate. The last one took 3 weeks
to phone in the estimate. After I asked for it in writing I never
heard from him again. I did the job myself - for half the price.

On another job three estimates ranged from $450 to $900. I recognized
the last contractor: he is a complete pillock and I would not let him
do the job for free (the reason I called him is that unbeknown to me
he changed companies - again). Did he really expect to get the job or
was it just another way of saying "no"?

I need a tree cut down. So far only one returned phone call after 24
hours.

And so on.

It seems that at least locally one can make comfortable living without
paying too much attention to one's business practices.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC