I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

On 8/1/2011 8:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i
MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future. The
reason given by our customers is they have no orders for their products.
At the same time electronic part distributors are saying the ordering of
components has dried up.

We build small quantities of products for a major assembly house in
Portland because it's not economical for them to build small quantities.
They report their orders from their big customers has also dried up.

I am meeting with my GM tomorrow to plan for layoff and shorter hours
for the crew. This feels like 2008 all over again.

I am sure anyone you might sell to will be holding onto their cash,
right now. Keep watch of the level of manufacturing in the country and
when it begins to rise again, then go for the refurbished tool business.
People will buy the refurbished before any new tool. Ask me how many
times I have been there!

Good luck, Paul

"Ignoramus13162" wrote in message
...
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

Wow thats a lot to ask. There are many variables in what you want to do.
I had the type of bussines you are describing in chicago for 32 years. If
you want to talk about the details i will be happy to discuss them with you
via email. Retired in 2003.

Best Regards
Tom.

On 2011-08-02, azotic wrote:

"Ignoramus13162" wrote in message
...
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

Wow thats a lot to ask. There are many variables in what you want to do.
I had the type of bussines you are describing in chicago for 32 years. If
you want to talk about the details i will be happy to discuss them with you
via email. Retired in 2003.

Best Regards
Tom.


I am very interested, send your email to ichudov at domain gmail.com.

Thanks

i

On 2011-08-02, Paul Drahn wrote:
On 8/1/2011 8:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i
MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future. The
reason given by our customers is they have no orders for their products.
At the same time electronic part distributors are saying the ordering of
components has dried up.

We build small quantities of products for a major assembly house in
Portland because it's not economical for them to build small quantities.
They report their orders from their big customers has also dried up.

I am meeting with my GM tomorrow to plan for layoff and shorter hours
for the crew. This feels like 2008 all over again.

I am sure anyone you might sell to will be holding onto their cash,
right now. Keep watch of the level of manufacturing in the country and
when it begins to rise again, then go for the refurbished tool business.
People will buy the refurbished before any new tool. Ask me how many
times I have been there!

Paul, this is what I want to sell, used stuff, not new stuff.

i

On 08/01/2011 10:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

Note that the machine tool business is extremely cyclical, and that
probably extends to accessories and tooling, also. I know several
people who have gotten into it in a big way, it looked to them like a
full-time occupation, and then suddenly had the bottom drop out and no
sales for many months.

I think anyone who can get a good reputation in circles of interested
folks, knows their way around the internet, and can identify and fix up
gear, ought to be able to make some money at it. Whether that can be a
full income, I just don't know. You seem to be able to turn over a lot
of stuff pretty quickly, and definitely have found sources to buy the
stuff at what must be bargain prices.

I think a warehouse is pretty essential, as some items will just sit a
while until the guy who needs that particular item comes looking for it.

Jon

On 08/01/2011 10:46 PM, Paul Drahn wrote:

i
MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future.
Hmmm, very interesting! I have a small enough business that the
fluctuations dominate, and I will go a month without orders, and then
get 3 within one week. So, it is hard to identify trends until they are
months old. But, your report does seem to fit with slow times
at my business, also.

Jon

On 8/2/2011 1:46 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
On 08/01/2011 10:46 PM, Paul Drahn wrote:

i
MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future.
Hmmm, very interesting! I have a small enough business that the
fluctuations dominate, and I will go a month without orders, and then
get 3 within one week. So, it is hard to identify trends until they are
months old. But, your report does seem to fit with slow times
at my business, also.

Jon
Hi, Jon.
We decided to go to 4 day work week and lay one person off. Only small
orders and prototype builds coming up.

Paul

On 2011-08-02, Jon Elson wrote:
On 08/01/2011 10:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

Note that the machine tool business is extremely cyclical, and that
probably extends to accessories and tooling, also. I know several
people who have gotten into it in a big way, it looked to them like a
full-time occupation, and then suddenly had the bottom drop out and no
sales for many months.

I think anyone who can get a good reputation in circles of interested
folks, knows their way around the internet, and can identify and fix up
gear, ought to be able to make some money at it. Whether that can be a
full income, I just don't know. You seem to be able to turn over a lot
of stuff pretty quickly, and definitely have found sources to buy the
stuff at what must be bargain prices.

I think a warehouse is pretty essential, as some items will just sit a
while until the guy who needs that particular item comes looking for it.

Jon

Jon, selling used stuff is not nearly as cyclical business as is
selling new stuff. I went through this in 2008-2009. Machines that
previously could be bought for $500 and sold for $1,000, could be sold
only for $500. The silver lining, though, is that they could be bought
for just $150. I loved 2008-2009.

i

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:46:05 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 08/01/2011 10:46 PM, Paul Drahn wrote:

i
MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future.
Hmmm, very interesting! I have a small enough business that the
fluctuations dominate, and I will go a month without orders, and then
get 3 within one week. So, it is hard to identify trends until they are
months old. But, your report does seem to fit with slow times
at my business, also.

Jon
================
FYI
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b672a5a0-b...44feabdc0.html
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...=feeds-newsxml
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b672a5a0-b...44feabdc0.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...l-economy.html
and a whole bunch more

Google on US manufacturing contraction OR slow-down for
last month for 1,440k hits.

On 2011-08-02, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Paul Drahn wrote:
On 8/1/2011 8:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

[ ... ]

MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future. The
reason given by our customers is they have no orders for their products.
At the same time electronic part distributors are saying the ordering of
components has dried up.

[ ... ]

I am sure anyone you might sell to will be holding onto their cash,
right now. Keep watch of the level of manufacturing in the country and
when it begins to rise again, then go for the refurbished tool business.
People will buy the refurbished before any new tool. Ask me how many
times I have been there!

Paul, this is what I want to sell, used stuff, not new stuff.

He understands that -- and says that businesses are not even in
a position to buy used stuff right now.

And consider the recurring cost of the mortgage on the warehouse
you were talking about. It would likely force you to increase your
selling price from what you are currently doing.

You *might* sell to some hobby metalworkers, but not to
businesses at the moment.

So be careful,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-08-03, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Paul Drahn wrote:
On 8/1/2011 8:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

[ ... ]

MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future. The
reason given by our customers is they have no orders for their products.
At the same time electronic part distributors are saying the ordering of
components has dried up.

[ ... ]

I am sure anyone you might sell to will be holding onto their cash,
right now. Keep watch of the level of manufacturing in the country and
when it begins to rise again, then go for the refurbished tool business.
People will buy the refurbished before any new tool. Ask me how many
times I have been there!

Paul, this is what I want to sell, used stuff, not new stuff.

He understands that -- and says that businesses are not even in
a position to buy used stuff right now.

And consider the recurring cost of the mortgage on the warehouse
you were talking about. It would likely force you to increase your
selling price from what you are currently doing.

I am not taking any mortgage. I would, however, have to pay taxes on
the building and heating costs.

You *might* sell to some hobby metalworkers, but not to
businesses at the moment.

I believe, very strongly, that being able to sell almost anything,
except toxic waste, is just a function of asking price.

Check this out:

http://goo.gl/52nRo

If you look at completed ebay listings for "CNC Lathe", priced between
1,000 and 20,000 (excluding "sherline" crap and the "machinre" asshole),
about half was actually sold.

This is the kind of stuff that I have in mind.

I do not beileve that being a surplus dealer in a recessionary
environment, is a bad thing. This has not been my experience two years
ago, and this is also not what my economics education tells me.

i

"Ignoramus2407" wrote in message
...
On 2011-08-02, Jon Elson wrote:
On 08/01/2011 10:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

It always worked out nicely, making money with dirty hands (literally,
not figuratively dirty). The profits varied from good to great.

I have a bit more free time from my day job and with that extra time,
my income from selling stuff went through the roof. I am now wondering
if I should, perhaps, scale it up and make it my day job, with a
warehouse and all.

I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

Note that the machine tool business is extremely cyclical, and that
probably extends to accessories and tooling, also. I know several
people who have gotten into it in a big way, it looked to them like a
full-time occupation, and then suddenly had the bottom drop out and no
sales for many months.

I think anyone who can get a good reputation in circles of interested
folks, knows their way around the internet, and can identify and fix up
gear, ought to be able to make some money at it. Whether that can be a
full income, I just don't know. You seem to be able to turn over a lot
of stuff pretty quickly, and definitely have found sources to buy the
stuff at what must be bargain prices.

I think a warehouse is pretty essential, as some items will just sit a
while until the guy who needs that particular item comes looking for it.

Jon

Jon, selling used stuff is not nearly as cyclical business as is
selling new stuff. I went through this in 2008-2009. Machines that
previously could be bought for $500 and sold for $1,000, could be sold
only for $500. The silver lining, though, is that they could be bought
for just $150. I loved 2008-2009.


Keep good records...and maintain a good relationship with your accountant.

--the IRS isn't particularily shy when it comes to seizing assets.

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:01:39 -0500, Ignoramus13162
wrote:



I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

I don't know any machine dealers personally, but I can tell you that
there used to be a few of them in our small town phone book 25 years
ago. Now there are none. It must not be an easy way to make a
living.

Right now you're doing ok because you're in an industrial area and
have lots of inexpensive product to choose from. You'll do OK for
awhile, but eventually the majority of good deals for those attending
auctions and factory closings will end.

On top of that, the bar to entering the business isn't very high. If
the economy turns around there will be competition from other small
dealers for the machinery, and your profit margins won't be as good.

I'm glad you're around to help those of us hobbyists, but don't quit
your day job.

RWL

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:01:39 -0500, Ignoramus13162
wrote:


The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

and another reality check. Gunner has been doing this for awhile and
isn't getting rich at it. He occasionally runs across similar deals,
although not as frequently as you.

RWL

On 2011-08-03, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane wrote:
On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:01:39 -0500, Ignoramus13162
wrote:



I could sell more of same $30.00-$1,000 stuff, just more of it, or with
more expensive things, like smaller size CNC machines. Things that I
could move with a flatbed trailer and a forklift. A little cleaning,
minor fixes and a quick flip.

I have never been into asking for too much money, just enough for a
quick sale.

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

I don't know any machine dealers personally, but I can tell you that
there used to be a few of them in our small town phone book 25 years
ago. Now there are none. It must not be an easy way to make a
living.

Right now you're doing ok because you're in an industrial area and
have lots of inexpensive product to choose from. You'll do OK for
awhile, but eventually the majority of good deals for those attending
auctions and factory closings will end.

Maybe I will do something else, then.

On top of that, the bar to entering the business isn't very high. If
the economy turns around there will be competition from other small
dealers for the machinery, and your profit margins won't be as good.

I'm glad you're around to help those of us hobbyists, but don't quit
your day job.


i

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...

I don't know any machine dealers personally, but I can tell you that
there used to be a few of them in our small town phone book 25 years
ago. Now there are none. It must not be an easy way to make a
living.

Right now you're doing ok because you're in an industrial area and
have lots of inexpensive product to choose from. You'll do OK for
awhile, but eventually the majority of good deals for those attending
auctions and factory closings will end.

On top of that, the bar to entering the business isn't very high. If
the economy turns around there will be competition from other small
dealers for the machinery, and your profit margins won't be as good.

I'm glad you're around to help those of us hobbyists, but don't quit
your day job.

RWL

I think you hit the nail on the head. In chicago there used to be 100 used
machinery dealers on lake street. I knew most of those guys, they were
for the most part a product of the post WW2 industrial boom. A lot of
them were father son bussineses. Had dinner with a lot of them, they all
had the same problem of the boom or bust cycle. Some of the younger
guy's insisted that globalazation was just another down turn and things
would return to normal eventually. They actually believed globalaztion
was just a fad!!! Some of them had an emotional attachment to thier
business and would do anything to save it. They used up thier line of
credit and at the very end were paying thier bills with credit cards.
Eventually
the banks took over thier property because they had taken out loans
to support thier business. In 2000-2001 i was getting calls, hey tom
you like that XXXXX come and get for free before the bank takes
it. The smart ones seen the wrighting on the wall and changed thier
bussines model. A couple of guys i know scraped everything they could
not sell right now. They converted thier buildings ( some of these places
3 to 5 stories high filled with machines and tools) to lofts or condos.
One dealer junked his entire inventory and is now a fine arts dealer
and converted his wharehouse to a gallery. They survived because they
were able to change thier business model and didn't beat a dead horse.

As far as buying cheap and selling cheap, it's a great hobby. All the guys
i knew ( the real machinery dealers ) would buy low and sell high. Your
not going to make a living making selling something for a couple of grand
every 3 months. The basic mode of operation for decades in used
machinery was to buy a machine bring it in to the warehouse. Clean it up
paint and repair if nessesary. The margins for decades was 10:1 Min.
often times more than that. And you have to cutomers for your machines
that are end useres ( factories). Developing contacts and buyers is very
hard to do in manufacturing. The purchasing agent has to know and trust
you. Cold calling won't work. Most of the time your gonna need an intro
from someone they trust before they even talk to you. Its like a big family
within a given industry, everybody nows everybody and they talk to
eachother.
If you get a bad rep your done. In todays ecconomy with outsourcing and
globalazation there is not much of a market for used machinery, i don't
think
you can make a decent living (Long Term) selling to the HSM market.

Just a small offering from my point of view after 32 years in business.


Best Regards
Tom.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

I don't know how well that pattern holds through non-machine-tool
products, like welders and compressors, etc. But I tracked the figures on
machine tools for decades, and the pattern is always the same. The bottom
end always is the most vulnerable and the first to fall.

--
Ed Huntress

Specializing in one area might be proffitable depending on what the
compition looks like.

Your gonna have to have a alternative in place should your specialty become
obsolete.

The problem as i see it is, does igy have the contacts to get in the door
and sell his expertise?

What igy is considering is a very complex with a lot of variables.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 19:50:21 -0500, Ignoramus2407
wrote:

On 2011-08-03, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Paul Drahn wrote:
On 8/1/2011 8:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

[ ... ]

MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future. The
reason given by our customers is they have no orders for their products.
At the same time electronic part distributors are saying the ordering of
components has dried up.

[ ... ]

I am sure anyone you might sell to will be holding onto their cash,
right now. Keep watch of the level of manufacturing in the country and
when it begins to rise again, then go for the refurbished tool business.
People will buy the refurbished before any new tool. Ask me how many
times I have been there!

Paul, this is what I want to sell, used stuff, not new stuff.

He understands that -- and says that businesses are not even in
a position to buy used stuff right now.

And consider the recurring cost of the mortgage on the warehouse
you were talking about. It would likely force you to increase your
selling price from what you are currently doing.

I am not taking any mortgage. I would, however, have to pay taxes on
the building and heating costs.


no mortgage = good. lowers your cost.

What you will have is rigging costs... buy a machine cheap, then pay
big bucks to get it moved to your warehouse. Then buyer has to pay
big bucks to get it from your watrehouse to his place. This can make
even cheap machines expensive.

Unless you know a rigger who works cheap, anit none of them around
here.....

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

On 2011-08-03, Randy333 wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 19:50:21 -0500, Ignoramus2407
wrote:

On 2011-08-03, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
On 2011-08-02, Paul Drahn wrote:
On 8/1/2011 8:01 PM, Ignoramus13162 wrote:
I was wondering about something. For a while, about 10 years, I did a
little hustle on the side, which was buying and selling. (and some
minor repairs).

[ ... ]

MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future. The
reason given by our customers is they have no orders for their products.
At the same time electronic part distributors are saying the ordering of
components has dried up.

[ ... ]

I am sure anyone you might sell to will be holding onto their cash,
right now. Keep watch of the level of manufacturing in the country and
when it begins to rise again, then go for the refurbished tool business.
People will buy the refurbished before any new tool. Ask me how many
times I have been there!

Paul, this is what I want to sell, used stuff, not new stuff.

He understands that -- and says that businesses are not even in
a position to buy used stuff right now.

And consider the recurring cost of the mortgage on the warehouse
you were talking about. It would likely force you to increase your
selling price from what you are currently doing.

I am not taking any mortgage. I would, however, have to pay taxes on
the building and heating costs.


no mortgage = good. lowers your cost.

What you will have is rigging costs... buy a machine cheap, then pay
big bucks to get it moved to your warehouse. Then buyer has to pay
big bucks to get it from your watrehouse to his place. This can make
even cheap machines expensive.

I have a bit of experience with rigging costs.

I would hope, of course, to have my own trailer big enough to move the
machines, and means to unload. So, I would pay riggers only for
loading on my trailer.

For a Bridgeport, the cost to load it on a trailer is around
$50-75. For a small machining center, the cost of loading is $200 or
so. Not horrible.

Unless you know a rigger who works cheap, anit none of them around
here.....

i

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:46:05 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 08/01/2011 10:46 PM, Paul Drahn wrote:

i
MY advice would be to wait a while. Manufacturing in this country has
tanked again. My electronic assembly business was great through July,
but we have almost no orders for August or any time in the future.
Hmmm, very interesting! I have a small enough business that the
fluctuations dominate, and I will go a month without orders, and then
get 3 within one week. So, it is hard to identify trends until they are
months old. But, your report does seem to fit with slow times
at my business, also.

Jon

Ah, your business is just like mine. Steady by jerks.

My other quote.

Business comes two ways:
Too Fast. Too slow.
Too fast is two times better.

karl

Iggy,

30 years ago i was told these is no way you can make a living selling
produce locally. Well, I just plain WANTED to do it. Can't say i got
rich. But it was a way more fun ride than punching the clock at the
factory I was working at.

I say go for it. You obviously have the skills and business acumen.
You will have to adjust your business model as time goe on. If you
have the desire to suceed, I believe there is a living (not get rich
quick) to be made in most any field.

Karl

Thanks Tom.

Great post (and thanks for the private email also).

i

On 2011-08-03, Howard Beal wrote:

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...

I don't know any machine dealers personally, but I can tell you that
there used to be a few of them in our small town phone book 25 years
ago. Now there are none. It must not be an easy way to make a
living.

Right now you're doing ok because you're in an industrial area and
have lots of inexpensive product to choose from. You'll do OK for
awhile, but eventually the majority of good deals for those attending
auctions and factory closings will end.

On top of that, the bar to entering the business isn't very high. If
the economy turns around there will be competition from other small
dealers for the machinery, and your profit margins won't be as good.

I'm glad you're around to help those of us hobbyists, but don't quit
your day job.

RWL

I think you hit the nail on the head. In chicago there used to be 100 used
machinery dealers on lake street. I knew most of those guys, they were
for the most part a product of the post WW2 industrial boom. A lot of
them were father son bussineses. Had dinner with a lot of them, they all
had the same problem of the boom or bust cycle. Some of the younger
guy's insisted that globalazation was just another down turn and things
would return to normal eventually. They actually believed globalaztion
was just a fad!!! Some of them had an emotional attachment to thier
business and would do anything to save it. They used up thier line of
credit and at the very end were paying thier bills with credit cards.
Eventually
the banks took over thier property because they had taken out loans
to support thier business. In 2000-2001 i was getting calls, hey tom
you like that XXXXX come and get for free before the bank takes
it. The smart ones seen the wrighting on the wall and changed thier
bussines model. A couple of guys i know scraped everything they could
not sell right now. They converted thier buildings ( some of these places
3 to 5 stories high filled with machines and tools) to lofts or condos.
One dealer junked his entire inventory and is now a fine arts dealer
and converted his wharehouse to a gallery. They survived because they
were able to change thier business model and didn't beat a dead horse.

As far as buying cheap and selling cheap, it's a great hobby. All the guys
i knew ( the real machinery dealers ) would buy low and sell high. Your
not going to make a living making selling something for a couple of grand
every 3 months. The basic mode of operation for decades in used
machinery was to buy a machine bring it in to the warehouse. Clean it up
paint and repair if nessesary. The margins for decades was 10:1 Min.
often times more than that. And you have to cutomers for your machines
that are end useres ( factories). Developing contacts and buyers is very
hard to do in manufacturing. The purchasing agent has to know and trust
you. Cold calling won't work. Most of the time your gonna need an intro
from someone they trust before they even talk to you. Its like a big family
within a given industry, everybody nows everybody and they talk to
eachother.
If you get a bad rep your done. In todays ecconomy with outsourcing and
globalazation there is not much of a market for used machinery, i don't
think
you can make a decent living (Long Term) selling to the HSM market.

Just a small offering from my point of view after 32 years in business.


Best Regards
Tom.

On 2011-08-03, Karl Townsend wrote:

Iggy,

30 years ago i was told these is no way you can make a living selling
produce locally. Well, I just plain WANTED to do it. Can't say i got
rich. But it was a way more fun ride than punching the clock at the
factory I was working at.

I say go for it. You obviously have the skills and business acumen.
You will have to adjust your business model as time goe on. If you
have the desire to suceed, I believe there is a living (not get rich
quick) to be made in most any field.

Karl



Karl, thanks.

I have been buying and selling for the last 10 years and it always
worked out great. I can count the number of disasters on the fingers
of one hand. I did military, industrial, and electronics.

The model of buying and selling that Tom has described (surplus store
selling to local customers) has changed, and a lot of stuff, if not
everything, can be sold electronically via websites and ebay, with
online reputations to follow. Since I always believed that money is
made when I buy something cheaply enough, the online selling venue
works fine.

I would really like to try myself at buying at selling higher dollar
stuff (CNC machines and other higher end stuff), which I can only do
without a day job.

The skills that I would bring to the game, are my 10 year experience,
ability to identify good deals, and troubleshooting skills.

In addition, I have a few websites, that are bringing in income that
is more than my day job income ever was, anyway, and my expenses are
manageable.

i

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:12:31 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:01:39 -0500, Ignoramus13162
wrote:


The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

and another reality check. Gunner has been doing this for awhile and
isn't getting rich at it. He occasionally runs across similar deals,
although not as frequently as you.

Gunner has a good hourly rate but he doesn't bill for every hour he
puts in at a client's site. I stopped doing that last year and we're
all happier, I think. (I hope he sees this, but I won't see his reply
unless it's via email.)

I'm not sure how much he makes on refurbing machinery.

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 22:35:03 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:


you can make a decent living (Long Term) selling to the HSM market.

Just a small offering from my point of view after 32 years in business.


Best Regards
Tom.

That's what I told a nearby machinery dealer when I bought a machine
from him for a lot less than he normally sold things for. As long as
they have volume of reasonably priced stuff to sell, they'll have a
business. If their source dries up they lose out to the imports.

RWL

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 22:35:03 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:


you can make a decent living (Long Term) selling to the HSM market.

Just a small offering from my point of view after 32 years in business.


Best Regards
Tom.

That's what I told a nearby machinery dealer when I bought a machine
from him for a lot less than he normally sold things for. As long as
they have volume of reasonably priced stuff to sell, they'll have a
business. If their source dries up they lose out to the imports.

RWL


Yep seen it happen, there was a family business selling used tools to
the hobby market in chicago, the owner would go to auctions and
buy inventorey and his brother and mom ran the store. Every time i
went into his place he was bitching about Enco killing his business.
They closed thier doors in 1995. One saturday i seen him kick a
guy out of his store when the customer said i can get the same thing
at Enco for half price.

In the hobby market the buyers want it cheap, on used stuff
thats common you have to offer it at about 1/4 the price of Enco.
Hobbyists don't always consider quality just price.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:12:31 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:01:39 -0500, Ignoramus13162
wrote:


The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

and another reality check. Gunner has been doing this for awhile and
isn't getting rich at it. He occasionally runs across similar deals,
although not as frequently as you.

RWL

True enough. Though to be fair..I never pushed Stuff very hard and only
went via word of mouth.

On the other hand..Ive been selling some Stuff on Ebay..and its going
for peanuts..or not at all.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On 2011-08-06, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:12:31 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:01:39 -0500, Ignoramus13162
wrote:


The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

and another reality check. Gunner has been doing this for awhile and
isn't getting rich at it. He occasionally runs across similar deals,
although not as frequently as you.

RWL

True enough. Though to be fair..I never pushed Stuff very hard and only
went via word of mouth.

On the other hand..Ive been selling some Stuff on Ebay..and its going
for peanuts..or not at all.

This has not been my experience. I just sold a 8" cross slide rotary
table on ebay for $240, for example. I think that it is a great
price.

i

"Ignoramus14753" wrote in message
....
I sold $2,303.42 worth of stuff on ebay only, in the last 31
days. This does not count the $2,000 diesel engine that I sold to its
rebuilder, $1,000 sandblasting pressure pot, $100 anvil, $150 Miller
welder, drill chucks, and more stuff that I cannot even remember.
and a $300 Quincy 10 HP QR-25 compressor (cost $25 plus $40 loading).
i

The people I know who do this have large warehouses full of junk they can't
sell, or even identify. That's how I bought my load cells for ~5% of their
original price.

jsw

On 2011-08-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus14753" wrote in message
...
I sold $2,303.42 worth of stuff on ebay only, in the last 31
days. This does not count the $2,000 diesel engine that I sold to its
rebuilder, $1,000 sandblasting pressure pot, $100 anvil, $150 Miller
welder, drill chucks, and more stuff that I cannot even remember.
and a $300 Quincy 10 HP QR-25 compressor (cost $25 plus $40 loading).
i

The people I know who do this have large warehouses full of junk they can't
sell, or even identify. That's how I bought my load cells for ~5% of their
original price.

who do what "this"? sell to me? or who do what I do?

if the formr, i agree 100%.

i may regret having sold that quincy very soon.

** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos **




jsw

"Ignoramus14753" wrote in message
news:d-
....
The people I know who do this have large warehouses full of junk they
can't
sell, or even identify. That's how I bought my load cells for ~5% of
their
original price.

who do what "this"? sell to me? or who do what I do?

if the formr, i agree 100%.

i may regret having sold that quincy very soon.

** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos **

I've bought from most of the second-hand machinery and electronics dealers
within ~100 miles and crawling through some of their warehouses is like
sneaking through concertina wire, but slower. I couldn't initially get
within 15 feet of the South Bend lathe I bought because of all the 9" lathes
packed like cattle against it.

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus14753" wrote in message
news:d-
...
The people I know who do this have large warehouses full of junk they
can't
sell, or even identify. That's how I bought my load cells for ~5% of
their
original price.

who do what "this"? sell to me? or who do what I do?

if the formr, i agree 100%.

i may regret having sold that quincy very soon.

** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos **

I've bought from most of the second-hand machinery and electronics dealers
within ~100 miles and crawling through some of their warehouses is like
sneaking through concertina wire, but slower. I couldn't initially get
within 15 feet of the South Bend lathe I bought because of all the 9" lathes
packed like cattle against it.


They 'herd' that you wanted it. ;-)


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-08-07, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus14753" wrote in message
news:d-
...
The people I know who do this have large warehouses full of junk they
can't
sell, or even identify. That's how I bought my load cells for ~5% of
their
original price.

who do what "this"? sell to me? or who do what I do?

if the formr, i agree 100%.

i may regret having sold that quincy very soon.

** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos **

I've bought from most of the second-hand machinery and electronics dealers
within ~100 miles and crawling through some of their warehouses is like
sneaking through concertina wire, but slower. I couldn't initially get
within 15 feet of the South Bend lathe I bought because of all the 9" lathes
packed like cattle against it.

Jim, is that because they ask for so much -- and thus cannot sell --
or because they are too lazy to sell what they have?

Gunner Asch on Sat, 06 Aug 2011 23:44:07 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Now I have to send a copper test kit to ****ing Norway that sold for
$2.29



I never, ever, sell internationally.

i

I dont either. Yet the bidder bought it..and then informed me he wanted
it shipped to ****ing Norway.

Cheapest means possible. Or charge for it. (Which I realize
means it may be too late.)

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Aug 7, 10:36*am, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Gunner Asch on Sat, 06 Aug 2011 23:44:07 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking *the following:



Now I have to send a copper test kit to ****ing Norway that sold for
$2.29

I never, ever, sell internationally.

i

I dont either. *Yet the bidder bought it..and then informed me he wanted
it shipped to ****ing Norway.

* * * * Cheapest means possible. *Or charge for it. *(Which I realize
means it may be too late.)

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Better yet...deliver it yourself Gummer...and stay there.

TMT

On 8/10/2011 10:41 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Aug 7, 10:36 am, pyotr wrote:
Gunner on Sat, 06 Aug 2011 23:44:07 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:



Now I have to send a copper test kit to ****ing Norway that sold for
$2.29

I never, ever, sell internationally.

i

I dont either. Yet the bidder bought it..and then informed me he wanted
it shipped to ****ing Norway.

Cheapest means possible. Or charge for it. (Which I realize
means it may be too late.)

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Better yet...deliver it yourself Gummer...and stay there.

TMT

Norway has enough trouble with right wing extremists who try to kill -
and anyone who can't understand that shipping charges get paid by the
buyer is an idiot. I've shipped a $1 item to Romania (it was a pile of
stuff), and the buyer paid $155 in shipping - why is this a problem?

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:50:10 -0700, "." wrote:

On 8/10/2011 10:41 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Aug 7, 10:36 am, pyotr wrote:
Gunner on Sat, 06 Aug 2011 23:44:07 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:



Now I have to send a copper test kit to ****ing Norway that sold for
$2.29

I never, ever, sell internationally.

i

I dont either. Yet the bidder bought it..and then informed me he wanted
it shipped to ****ing Norway.

Cheapest means possible. Or charge for it. (Which I realize
means it may be too late.)

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Better yet...deliver it yourself Gummer...and stay there.

TMT

Norway has enough trouble with Fascist (Socialist) extremists who try to kill -
and anyone who can't understand that shipping charges get paid by the
buyer is an idiot. I've shipped a $1 item to Romania (it was a pile of
stuff), and the buyer paid $155 in shipping - why is this a problem?

Corrected for accuracy.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On Aug 1, 11:01*pm, Ignoramus13162 ignoramus13...@NOSPAM.
13162.invalid wrote:

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

There was a fellow by the name of Dave Ficken who dealt in machine
tool and used to post on RCM. He is no longer in that business. Very
nice guy.

He could tell you how it works in the cold hard world. You can find
him with a little work.

Dan

On 2011-08-11, wrote:
On Aug 1, 11:01?pm, Ignoramus13162 ignoramus13...@NOSPAM.
13162.invalid wrote:

The question that I have is, do you know anyone who does that sort of
thing and makes a decent living. How does it work in "cold, hard
reality".

i

There was a fellow by the name of Dave Ficken who dealt in machine
tool and used to post on RCM. He is no longer in that business. Very
nice guy.

He could tell you how it works in the cold hard world. You can find
him with a little work.

Did that Dave Ficken have a retail store, or was he selling online?