Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my car,
wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been driven
over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day some
300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can find
out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the City of
Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would they have to
for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license plate was
issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell happened to
innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven innocent and I'm
ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is responsible for this
reversal.

RogerN

On 2011-05-25, RogerN wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my car,
wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been driven
over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day some
300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can find
out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the City of
Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would they have to
for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license plate was
issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell happened to
innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven innocent and I'm
ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is responsible for this
reversal.

This is a civil fine, not a criminal prosecution. This is not an
"innocent until proven guilty" cituation.

Try calling them at 312-744-5000.

i

On May 24, 5:07*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket. *They send me a picture that is not of my car,

....

Do a search on "city of chicago parking ticket scam".

DOC


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Ignoramus1699 wrote:

On 2011-05-25, RogerN wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind
of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my
car, wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything
else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been
driven over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to
Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day
some 300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can
find
out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the City of
Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would they have
to
for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license plate was
issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell happened to
innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven innocent and I'm
ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is responsible for
this reversal.

This is a civil fine, not a criminal prosecution. This is not an
"innocent until proven guilty" cituation.

No, it's more like one of those "guilty until you prove yourself innocent"
situations.

If you loved the ways of the Soviet Union so much, why did you ever come
to America?

Thanks,
Rich




Try calling them at 312-744-5000.

i

"Ignoramus1699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-25, RogerN wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind
of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my
car,
wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been
driven
over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to
Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day
some
300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can
find
out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the City of
Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would they have
to
for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license plate was
issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell happened to
innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven innocent and I'm
ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is responsible for
this
reversal.

This is a civil fine, not a criminal prosecution. This is not an
"innocent until proven guilty" cituation.

Try calling them at 312-744-5000.

i

I tried calling them at the number they gave, just an answering device, no
answers. Like most businesses, they are only there while I'm at work, I
hate day shift with a passion. I really want to find the person responsible
for this scam ticket and hold them responsible for their actions.

RogerN

That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a photo
of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

"RogerN" wrote in message
...

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my car,
wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been
driven over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to
Chicago since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on
that day some 300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can
find out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the
City of Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would
they have to for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license
plate was issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell
happened to innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven
innocent and I'm ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is
responsible for this reversal.

RogerN

\"doc" wrote in message
...
On May 24, 5:07 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my car,

...

Do a search on "city of chicago parking ticket scam".

DOC


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I see they are in the business of scam parking tickets. I want to find the
individual(s) responsible for this and hold them personally responsible.

Here's their picture
http://apw.imageenforcement.com/chic...4%20141946.JPG

My car is a white 1996 Honda Civic LX and has not been within ~250 miles of
Chicago since I have owned it, the car in the picture looks nothing like my
car. I don't see how they could get a license plate from that picture,
hopefully they had someting higher resolution.


RogerN

On 2011-05-25, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus1699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-05-25, RogerN wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind
of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my
car,
wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been
driven
over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to
Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day
some
300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can
find
out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the City of
Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would they have
to
for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license plate was
issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell happened to
innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven innocent and I'm
ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is responsible for
this
reversal.

This is a civil fine, not a criminal prosecution. This is not an
"innocent until proven guilty" cituation.

Try calling them at 312-744-5000.

i

I tried calling them at the number they gave, just an answering device, no
answers. Like most businesses, they are only there while I'm at work, I
hate day shift with a passion. I really want to find the person responsible
for this scam ticket and hold them responsible for their actions.

You may end up being successful. You have a good case.

i

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...
That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a photo
of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
...
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...
That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a
photo of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.


Don't worry about it because the world is going to end on the 21st of this
month.

On May 24, 11:53*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in ...

That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a photo
of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. *I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. *I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

RogerN

Roger -

Have you EVER made a mistake? Not everything is part of some grand
conspiracy to coerce you into paying a parking ticket. Do yourself a
favor and lighten up.

On Tue, 24 May 2011 19:07:09 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket.
snip
========

As you got this in the mail try filing a mail fraud
complaint with the post office. Include a *COPY* of the
picture they sent and a picture of your car showing the
different color/year. Make sure to send numerous CCs to
local news papers/tv stations, and your legislators. Just
the fact that people are asking questions may help to shut
this scam down. Federal and state prosecutors may also be
looking for a scalp. Keep copies of everything.

FWIW -- the City of Chicago sold the parking rights and
meter income on city streets to a private company.
http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/117_230/-297115-1.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/...27950220081202
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...en-deba-1.html
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...erve-fund.html

Ain't privatization wonderful? And thanks to contributing
to Morgan Stanley's bottom line.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

In article , "RogerN" wrote:
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...
That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a photo
of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

Life is too short to get wrapped around the axle over trivial stuff like this.
Follow Paul's advice above, then let it go.

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus1699 wrote:

On 2011-05-25, RogerN wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind
of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my
car, wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything
else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with
an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been
driven over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been
to
Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day
some 300 miles away from Chicago.

So the City of Chicago is trying to fine me for a ticket, their date of
5/04/2011, that was parked in my yard about 300 miles from Chicago
during
that date. My wife called the State Police, the lady that answered the
phone had the same crap happen to her. Is their any possible way I can
find
out who is responsible for these bogus fines? If I could sue the City
of
Chicago for the expenses associated with their "mistake", would they
have
to
for their negligent fine? Couldn't they see that my license plate was
issued to a different model and color of car? What the hell happened to
innocent until prove guilty, now I'm guilty until proven innocent and
I'm
ready to beat the hell out of the piece of **** that is responsible for
this reversal.

This is a civil fine, not a criminal prosecution. This is not an
"innocent until proven guilty" cituation.

No, it's more like one of those "guilty until you prove yourself innocent"
situations.

Forget the "more like." It's a civil infraction, which is treated as a
criminal case rather than like a civil suit. The evidence supplied by the
arresting authority, or the authority issuing the citation, is the evidence
of guilt, and it's strong evidence. If you don't defend yourself, it's
likely to get you convicted.


If you loved the ways of the Soviet Union so much, why did you ever come
to America?

It's the other way around, Rich. This is the way it's handled in the United
States, under laws adopted through democratic representation. If you don't
like it, you ought to save up and buy yourself an island where you can
declare yourself sovereign.

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign to
change the law, if you don't like it.

--
Ed Huntress

"RogerN" wrote in message
...
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...
That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a
photo of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

RogerN

Their number should be on the citation.
But, trust me, it's just a mistake,not a plot by the godless democrats

I fight tickets all the time.
I go to hearings and argue points of law with hearing officers over $25
tickets.

What you have is a slam dunk. Send in the info and in a few weeks you'll get
a nice letter that says the city was unable to prove it case and the factual
evidence was inaccurate.

I'll mail you a stamp, if you want.

Paul K. Dickman

Ed Huntress wrote:

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign to
change the law, if you don't like it.


It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~sv_temptress

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign
to change the law, if you don't like it.


It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

As Churchhill said, democracy is the worst form of government...except for
all the others.

This is what we've got. A lot of people have died to get it and keep it.
It's frustrating as hell, but Churchhill hit the nail on the head.

--
Ed Huntress

Don't get so excited about exacting some revenge or culpability.

Do some research first.

Here are a few starters for you...
Check that the phone number is for the City of Chicago (COC).
Check that the address to mail the payment is for the City of Chicago.
Go to the address and ask some questions.
Tickets will have the employee number-code for who wrote it up. Check
with the COC that it is a valid number for a real person.
Check with the COC that it is a valid outstanding ticket number.
People can recreate any documents on a PC these days.
As has been suggested, write them a letter, but make sure it is a COC
address and department.

I could go on and on, but I am lazier than you.

Dave

Ed Huntress wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign
to change the law, if you don't like it.

It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

As Churchhill said, democracy is the worst form of government...except for
all the others.

This is what we've got. A lot of people have died to get it and keep it.
It's frustrating as hell, but Churchhill hit the nail on the head.


Oh yes. I'm one of those who defended it...



I believe Churchill also said, "The best argument against democracy is a
five-minute talk with the average voter."


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~sv_temptress

CaveLamb wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign
to change the law, if you don't like it.


It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

That's exactly what the Libertarians have been trying to tell you people
for decades!

We need to get rid of all that expensive ridiculous government and give
Liberty a try for a change. According to the Constitution of the United
States, the government is supposed to consist of:

.. One President
.. One Vice President
.. One Hundred Senators
.. 435 Representatives (at the moment)
.. Nine Supreme Court Justices.

And that's all it should take! The government is supposed to be nothing but
a focal point, a clearinghouse, if you will, where the states can take
dealings when they need an arbiter.

But apparently people are terrified of Liberty. "Well, you can't have
everybody running around doing whatever they want to do!!!! =:-O"

Why not? And who wants to take over the job of God and tell everybody what
to do and when?

Besides Barack Hussein Obama, of course.

I can sum up my religion and politics in one sentence: Freedom is my Worship
Word.

Thanks,
Rich

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies:
campaign to change the law, if you don't like it.

It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

As Churchhill said, democracy is the worst form of government...except
for all the others.

This is what we've got. A lot of people have died to get it and keep it.
It's frustrating as hell, but Churchhill hit the nail on the head.


Oh yes. I'm one of those who defended it...



I believe Churchill also said, "The best argument against democracy is a
five-minute talk with the average voter."

g Imagine what he would have thought if he had seen a political
conversation on RCM!

--
Ed Huntress

In article , Rich Grise wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign
to change the law, if you don't like it.


It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

That's exactly what the Libertarians have been trying to tell you people
for decades!

We need to get rid of all that expensive ridiculous government and give
Liberty a try for a change. According to the Constitution of the United
States, the government is supposed to consist of:

.. One President
.. One Vice President
.. One Hundred Senators
.. 435 Representatives (at the moment)
.. Nine Supreme Court Justices.

And that's all it should take!

Sigh. Yet *another* person pontificating about the Constitution, without
having taken the time and trouble to actually read and understand it.

The Constitution explicitly recognizes and provides for the existence of other
departments, offices, and officers beyond those you named:

"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or
Officer thereof." [Article I, section 8, last paragraph]

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United
States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual
Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the
principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject
relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to
grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in
Cases of Impeachment." [Article II, Section 2, first paragraph]

"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to
make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he
shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall
appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme
Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not
herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the
Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they
think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of
Departments." [Article II, Section 2, second paragraph]

"He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of
the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall
judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene
both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with
Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he
shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers;
he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission
all the Officers of the United States." [Article II, Section 3]

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States,
shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason,
Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." [Article II, Section 4]

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of
President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the
United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a
member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of
any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to
support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in
insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the
enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House,
remove such disability." [Amendment XIV, Section 3]

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers
of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law
provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker
of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President
is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President
shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting
President." [Amendment XXV, Section 4, first paragraph]

I could keep going, but I think that's more than enough to make the point.

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
CaveLamb wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies: campaign
to change the law, if you don't like it.


It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

That's exactly what the Libertarians have been trying to tell you people
for decades!

We need to get rid of all that expensive ridiculous government...

And who do you think is "we"?


and give
Liberty a try for a change. According to the Constitution of the United
States, the government is supposed to consist of:

. One President
. One Vice President
. One Hundred Senators
. 435 Representatives (at the moment)
. Nine Supreme Court Justices.

And that's all it should take! The government is supposed to be nothing
but
a focal point, a clearinghouse, if you will, where the states can take
dealings when they need an arbiter.

That was the Articles of Confederation. It failed. That's why the
Constitutional Convention was held, to create a strong central government.

It also was one of the two competing theories about government under the
Constitution. It was called the "Compact Theory." It was rejected by the
Supreme Court in 1798, at which time John Jay pointed to the preamble to the
Constitution, which says it is ordained and established by "We the people,"
not by the states.

So the competing views were that the federal government was a compact among
the states, versus a nation established directly by the people. The compact
theory was struck down again and again, and finally was thrown out of
Constitutional theory and jurisprudence altogether when the union was
upheld, and states' rights minimized and circumscribed, when the South lost
the Civil War.

Righties and, particularly, libertarians, have a really poor understanding
of American history.


But apparently people are terrified of Liberty. "Well, you can't have
everybody running around doing whatever they want to do!!!! =:-O"

It's not liberty that's a terrifying threat to the republic. It's
libertarians. d8-)


Why not? And who wants to take over the job of God and tell everybody what
to do and when?

Besides Barack Hussein Obama, of course.

I can sum up my religion and politics in one sentence: Freedom is my
Worship
Word.

You'll get a test of that if you ever have the misfortune to have an
expensive, life-threatening medical condition (God forbid), and we see if
you stick to your uninsured guns and refuse care. We wouldn't want you to
have to become a ward of the state, like Gunner, would we?

--
Ed Huntress

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Rich Grise
wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:

Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies:
campaign
to change the law, if you don't like it.


It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...

That's exactly what the Libertarians have been trying to tell you people
for decades!

We need to get rid of all that expensive ridiculous government and give
Liberty a try for a change. According to the Constitution of the United
States, the government is supposed to consist of:

.. One President
.. One Vice President
.. One Hundred Senators
.. 435 Representatives (at the moment)
.. Nine Supreme Court Justices.

And that's all it should take!

Sigh. Yet *another* person pontificating about the Constitution, without
having taken the time and trouble to actually read and understand it.

The Constitution explicitly recognizes and provides for the existence of
other
departments, offices, and officers beyond those you named:

"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department
or
Officer thereof." [Article I, section 8, last paragraph]

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the
United
States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the
actual
Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of
the
principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject
relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have
Power to
grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except
in
Cases of Impeachment." [Article II, Section 2, first paragraph]

"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to
make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he
shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate,
shall
appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the
supreme
Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are
not
herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but
the
Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as
they
think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the
Heads of
Departments." [Article II, Section 2, second paragraph]

"He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State
of
the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall
judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene
both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them,
with
Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he
shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public
Ministers;
he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall
Commission
all the Officers of the United States." [Article II, Section 3]

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United
States,
shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of,
Treason,
Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." [Article II, Section 4]

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of
President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under
the
United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath,
as a
member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member
of
any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any
State, to
support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in
insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the
enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House,
remove such disability." [Amendment XIV, Section 3]

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal
officers
of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law
provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the
Speaker
of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the
President
is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice
President
shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting
President." [Amendment XXV, Section 4, first paragraph]

I could keep going, but I think that's more than enough to make the point.

I hope you're not laboring under the misconception that the righties and
libertarians have actually READ the Constitution, are you? d8-)

They're like this guy, who is my favorite representative of a Tea Party
conservative:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/are...agines-c,2849/

--
Ed Huntress

"RogerN" wrote in message
...
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...
That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a
photo of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

RogerN



RN:

My experience with the trial-by-mail option in another
state was fine. Submit photocopies of all relevant documents
and the pictures. Unless the arbiter is insensible
that should end it.

Suing the sovereign (government) or their agents (contract
company) is different in kind and state to state. In most
places, you cannot pursue the issue in court first if claims
of monetary damage are involved. The initial step is to present
the entity with a claim which, if denied, paves the way for
a lawsuit. Check your local rules.

If you do sue as an individual in small claims court, don't
expect much in the way of satisfaction, if anything. Most
of the "judges" in many places are pro-tem attorneys who
are either retired and can be good or are often under the bad
sign of being unable to make more than what the government
pays them on their own.

Solid and unswerving advice here is--unless you've sat
through his proceedings--
never, ever take a judge pro tem if you are given the option
to use a regular jurist. Should the option be offered, it usually
comes as a blanket announcement before small claims
proceedings start. If you bail out, you'll probably be the
only one. That automatically makes you the smartest in
the bunch. I've seen the temporary judges do things
beyond absurd.

A worthwhile course would be to use the mail
approach, contacting a good local paper with an
investigative bent.

Assuming this is a systematic and financially significant wrong, a
good class-action firm might find your information entertaining.
Articulate lead plaintiffs in a successful case do nicely.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Dave, I can't do that wrote:
Don't get so excited about exacting some revenge or culpability.

Do some research first.

Here are a few starters for you...
Check that the phone number is for the City of Chicago (COC).
Check that the address to mail the payment is for the City of Chicago.
Go to the address and ask some questions.
Tickets will have the employee number-code for who wrote it up. Check
with the COC that it is a valid number for a real person.
Check with the COC that it is a valid outstanding ticket number.
People can recreate any documents on a PC these days.
As has been suggested, write them a letter, but make sure it is a COC
address and department.

I could go on and on, but I am lazier than you.

Dave



I was wondering about the e-mail addr. of that from the very
first post. I would think the city of Chicago would have
a .gov not a .org addr. I know our city of Albuquerque and
Santa Fe have a .gov addr.
So I suspect it's a scam.
...lew...

Ed Huntress wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Or do what responsible people do in representative democracies:
campaign to change the law, if you don't like it.

It's not that I disagree with what you said, Ed.
It's just that after watching this happen for a lifetime
I'm starting to question the wisdom of it.

With so many people, each with his or her own ideas of how
things should be, many of them contradictory, I'm beginning
to think the system doesn't have a chance of working...
As Churchhill said, democracy is the worst form of government...except
for all the others.

This is what we've got. A lot of people have died to get it and keep it.
It's frustrating as hell, but Churchhill hit the nail on the head.

Oh yes. I'm one of those who defended it...



I believe Churchill also said, "The best argument against democracy is a
five-minute talk with the average voter."

g Imagine what he would have thought if he had seen a political
conversation on RCM!



I've lost it now, but someone here had a sig line that might apply....



UK has a heretical president, the US has an elected King?



--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~sv_temptress

Whatever...

I just talked to my local constituent representative person about the
TSA verses Texas patdown showdown...

I'm all for the showdown.

Because I see what TSA does in airports as unreasonable search and seizure.
(I'm guessing that's a 4th Amendment thing? But maybe you guys know better?)

NOWHERE else in the world puts up with this (*&@$).

Anyway, what I got from her was a chuckle and a nod.
So I guess we'll be reading more about this soon?

Ed Huntress wrote:

You'll get a test of that if you ever have the misfortune to have an
expensive, life-threatening medical condition (God forbid), and we see if
you stick to your uninsured guns and refuse care. We wouldn't want you to
have to become a ward of the state, like Gunner, would we?




Ed, you are nursing that cruel streak...again...

--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~sv_temptress

"RogerN" wrote:

Today I get in the mail a ticket from "cityofchicago.org" for some kind of
$60 illegal parking ticket. They send me a picture that is not of my car,
wrong color, wrong year... it may be a Honda but about everything else in
the picture is wrong. My car was parked in my yard on that date, with an
expired license sticker, because it doesn't run right, it hasn't been driven
over 10 miles from DuQuoin in almost a year, and I haven't been to Chicago
since I've owned this car. My wife and I were both at work on that day some
300 miles away from Chicago.

Chicago couldn't get a .gov domain? Hell, maybe someone in ICANN has a sense of humor.
The mafia is an org and Chicago is as close to organized crime as a government can be.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:

You'll get a test of that if you ever have the misfortune to have an
expensive, life-threatening medical condition (God forbid), and we see if
you stick to your uninsured guns and refuse care. We wouldn't want you to
have to become a ward of the state, like Gunner, would we?




Ed, you are nursing that cruel streak...again...

Where do you think I picked it up? 'Got some dog ticks at the same time,
too...

--
Ed Huntress

CaveLamb wrote:

I believe Churchill also said, "The best argument against democracy is a
five-minute talk with the average voter."

But Buckley said, "I would rather be governed by the first two thousand people in the
Boston telephone directory than by the two thousand people on the faculty of Harvard
University."

Sadly we are governed by products of the Ivy League and not the phone book.


Wes

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On May 24, 11:53 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in
...

That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a
photo
of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have
roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

RogerN

\Roger -
\
\Have you EVER made a mistake? Not everything is part of some grand
\conspiracy to coerce you into paying a parking ticket. Do yourself a
\favor and lighten up.

I have made mistakes but my mistakes don't fine innocent people $60 for
parking. They could have looked up my license plates and see that my car is
a white 1996 Honda Civic and the car in the picture looks red and doesn't
look like a 96 Honda Civic, other than both have four wheels. Their picture
could have displayed the license plates clearly enough to see if it is even
remotely close to my plates. If my mistakes require someone to produce
evidence of their innocence, I should pay their expense to do so. I know
it's a strange concept to many, but how about people being held responsible
for their own actions. If the idiots had to pay for their mistakes I'm sure
I would have never received this ticket.

Did you see the picture?
http://apw.imageenforcement.com/chic...4%20141946.JPG
Can you make out the license plate? Does it look like a 96 white Honda
Civic LX? So why did I get the ticket? Why do I have to prove my innocence
instead of the accuser having to prove my guilt?

RogerN

In article , wrote:


Chicago couldn't get a .gov domain?

The .gov top-level domain used to be restricted to agencies of the U.S.
Federal government only; cityofchicago.org appears to have been registered
before that TLD became available to state and city governments.

That's what happened here in Indianapolis: the city's web site used to be
indygov.org; now indygov.org simply redirects to indy.gov .

"Wes" wrote in message
...
CaveLamb wrote:

I believe Churchill also said, "The best argument against democracy is a
five-minute talk with the average voter."

But Buckley said, "I would rather be governed by the first two thousand
people in the
Boston telephone directory than by the two thousand people on the faculty
of Harvard
University."

Sadly we are governed by products of the Ivy League and not the phone
book.


Wes

Buckley was full of useful quotes. For example, "I won't insult your
intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said."

I would suggest that you haven't spent much time in Boston. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

snip

I have made mistakes but my mistakes don't fine innocent people $60 for
parking. They could have looked up my license plates and see that my car
is a white 1996 Honda Civic and the car in the picture looks red and
doesn't look like a 96 Honda Civic, other than both have four wheels.
Their picture could have displayed the license plates clearly enough to
see if it is even remotely close to my plates. If my mistakes require
someone to produce evidence of their innocence, I should pay their
expense to do so. I know it's a strange concept to many, but how about
people being held responsible for their own actions. If the idiots had
to pay for their mistakes I'm sure I would have never received this
ticket.

Did you see the picture?
http://apw.imageenforcement.com/chic...4%20141946.JPG
Can you make out the license plate? Does it look like a 96 white Honda
Civic LX? So why did I get the ticket? Why do I have to prove my
innocence instead of the accuser having to prove my guilt?

RogerN


This is Chicago, not Pinckneyville. They write more tickets each day than
there are people in Du Quoin.
This one fell through the cracks.
Be thankful they didn't look up your registration, then they would write
you a ticket for having an unlicensed motor vehicle.

Paul K. Dickman

My wife called the State Police station here in DuQuoin yesterday because
sometimes there are scams that go around that they will tell you about. The
lady that answered the phone at the state police station had the same thing
happen to her, she sent proof from her employer that she worked that day and
it was dismissed. I don't care how big Chicago is, if they can't be
responsible for their actions they need to quit writing tickets. At least
in Pinckneyville, if you get a parking ticket your car was actually there.
My wife told her mom about this, her mom had the same thing happen to her,
she has never been to Chicago in her life and doesn't know anyone from
their. It seems very likely they are sending these bogus tickets to
everyone in the state hoping some will pay.

Since my wife and I both work, it's hard to get time off to pursue this but
I want to see if this is mail fraud. I want to find out who is responsible
for this and how they got my license plate number from the picture, i.e. did
someone actually see the car's plates, I can't make out a single digit from
the picture.

RogerN

On 5/25/2011 7:02 PM, RogerN wrote:
wrote in message
...
On May 24, 11:53 pm, wrote:
"Paul K. wrote in
...

That's why they have a contest by mail option.
Write up a concise, coherent, explanation of your case and include a
photo
of your car and a copy of the registration.and mail it in.
Somebody just wrote down the wrong license number.
It used to be better when only cops gave out tickets. Now the have
roving
"revenuers" .
Unlike cops, they have no career path to screw up by making mistakes.

Paul K. Dickman

When a police officer writes me a ticket, his name is on it. I would like
the name of the person responsible for me being ticketed with a car that
hasn't been within 250 miles of Chicago since I have owned it. I'm very
sick and tired of the having to pay for other peoples incompetence, their
careless mistake is making problems for me, I want to make problems for
them.

RogerN

\Roger -
\
\Have you EVER made a mistake? Not everything is part of some grand
\conspiracy to coerce you into paying a parking ticket. Do yourself a
\favor and lighten up.

I have made mistakes but my mistakes don't fine innocent people $60 for
parking. They could have looked up my license plates and see that my car is
a white 1996 Honda Civic and the car in the picture looks red and doesn't
look like a 96 Honda Civic, other than both have four wheels. Their picture
could have displayed the license plates clearly enough to see if it is even
remotely close to my plates. If my mistakes require someone to produce
evidence of their innocence, I should pay their expense to do so. I know
it's a strange concept to many, but how about people being held responsible
for their own actions. If the idiots had to pay for their mistakes I'm sure
I would have never received this ticket.

Did you see the picture?
http://apw.imageenforcement.com/chic...4%20141946.JPG
Can you make out the license plate? Does it look like a 96 white Honda
Civic LX? So why did I get the ticket? Why do I have to prove my innocence
instead of the accuser having to prove my guilt?

RogerN



For God's sake Roger, some poor shlub back in the office misread an O
for a D or hit the 5 when she went for the 8, Send them a note, quit
acting like you are the only person who has ever been rained on and grow up!

"Stuart Wheaton" wrote in message
...
On 5/25/2011 7:02 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
Did you see the picture?
http://apw.imageenforcement.com/chic...4%20141946.JPG
Can you make out the license plate? Does it look like a 96 white Honda
Civic LX? So why did I get the ticket? Why do I have to prove my
innocence
instead of the accuser having to prove my guilt?

RogerN



For God's sake Roger, some poor shlub back in the office misread an O for
a D or hit the 5 when she went for the 8, Send them a note, quit acting
like you are the only person who has ever been rained on and grow up!

Can you read ANY number or letter on the license plate in the picture? I
can't so how did they get my or any number from that picture? Since there
is no legible number in that picture, how can they send out any fines based
on that? I don't think I'm the only one, it appears the be a very common
occurrence, that's the problem. I think they expect some to pay and expect
nobody to make a big deal out of it, their scam works because of people like
you that let it work.

My license registration sticker was renewed recently, it expired last
December. I plan to get this car repaired soon so I got the license
registration sticker. I would guess that they somehow got my license number
from my recent registration perhaps through DOT, that's probably how their
scam works.

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message

My license registration sticker was renewed recently, it expired last
December. I plan to get this car repaired soon so I got the license
registration sticker. I would guess that they somehow got my license
number from my recent registration perhaps through DOT, that's probably
how their scam works.

RogerN


Nahh they just make up numbers to meet thier quota for issuing tickets.
You just happened to be one of the lucky winners for that day.

Best Regards
Tom.

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
"Stuart Wheaton" wrote in message
...
On 5/25/2011 7:02 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
Did you see the picture?
http://apw.imageenforcement.com/chic...4%20141946.JPG
Can you make out the license plate? Does it look like a 96 white Honda
Civic LX? So why did I get the ticket? Why do I have to prove my
innocence
instead of the accuser having to prove my guilt?

RogerN



For God's sake Roger, some poor shlub back in the office misread an O for
a D or hit the 5 when she went for the 8, Send them a note, quit acting
like you are the only person who has ever been rained on and grow up!

Can you read ANY number or letter on the license plate in the picture? I
can't so how did they get my or any number from that picture? Since there
is no legible number in that picture, how can they send out any fines
based on that? I don't think I'm the only one, it appears the be a very
common occurrence, that's the problem. I think they expect some to pay
and expect nobody to make a big deal out of it, their scam works because
of people like you that let it work.

My license registration sticker was renewed recently, it expired last
December. I plan to get this car repaired soon so I got the license
registration sticker. I would guess that they somehow got my license
number from my recent registration perhaps through DOT, that's probably
how their scam works.

RogerN



RN:

Perhaps it is different in Illinois (you would know) but in my
state any motor vehicle owned--even if not operated and definitely
not situated on a public street where current registration is
mandatory--requires that the titleholder pay for a non-operation
certificate. Here that is good for one modest fee indefinitely. It
used to carry a yearly renewal and charge. No need to respond.
Juridictions vary a lot of ways.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey