Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Best Regards
Tom.

On 3/19/2011 9:27 PM, azotic wrote:

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion



Why are there so many designs with motors mounted so as to be unsprung?
It's not a good idea, if you want a nice ride and good handling.
Electric motors of real power are heavy.
Putting them in the wheels themselves is even dumber, although it seems
to be a popular choice.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Best Regards
Tom.


Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Best Regards
Tom.


Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

On Mar 19, 7:16*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
...
My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Karl

You could buy and bolt together the parts to make a hydrostatic one.

jsw

On 3/19/2011 7:16 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.


My son worked on this one years ago as a summer project at Olin-


http://scope.olin.edu/projects/2005-...on_agribotics/


It might interest you; it was designed to be an autonomous orchard
maintenance machine. Here is the company's web site.

http://www.rocona.com/


Kevin Gallimore

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Best Regards
Tom.


Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Karl

Been done before GE Elec-trak was one version. Didn't sell very well.
http://www.elec-trak.com/
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects...k/ElecTrak.htm


--
Steve W.

On Mar 19, 1:36*pm, "Steve W." wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Best Regards
Tom.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Karl

Been done before GE Elec-trak was one version. Didn't sell very well.http://www.elec-trak.com/http://www....k/ElecTrak.htm
Steve W.

I worked on these:
http://www.spawar.navy.mil/robots/la...SegwayRMP.html

jsw

Having the motor mounted to the axle appears to be a very poor design, to
me.
There are losses with a drive shaft, but the motor doesn't need to withstand
the physical motion of following the axle.

This method of differential drive would be entirely suitable for a small
vehicle that always runs on smoooth or gradually changing surfaces, but
hardly seems intelligent for a (large) car in everyday driving conditions.
A large car wouldn't become a lot lighter by removal of the engine and
transmission, since a considerable amount of space would likely be used for
batteries.

The extreme forces that the motor would need to withstand in real-world
conditions.. potholes, abrupt impacts of road debris etc, would be applied
as shock loads to the rotational power from the motor, with only the drive
belt to absorb such rotational shocks (by the looks of it).

Shaking and jarring the rotating motor components would likely result in
serious inefficiencies in the application of the horizontally-oriented motor
shaft power, IMO.

If the axle-mounted motor were allowed to float by a dampening
mechanism/swing arm-design the power could possibly be applied more smoothly
and likely more efficiently.

--
WB
..........


"azotic" wrote in message
...
Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.
Best Regards
Tom.

On Mar 19, 5:27*am, "azotic" wrote:
Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Best Regards
Tom.

Someone in town did their own conversion, they took a small car and
removed the motor. Added a 21 horsepower diesel instead, with a 20
horsepower electric assist motor to the end of the diesel.

The diesel was sufficient for cruise, and the electric added the
acceleration needed when needed..
Small battery pack in the trunk.

This was a few years ago, they were getting 65+ MPG IIRC.

They had a website, but I see it is gone now.

On Mar 19, 2:21*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
Having the motor mounted to the axle appears to be a very poor design, to
me.
There are losses with a drive shaft, but the motor doesn't need to withstand
the physical motion of following the axle.

This method of differential drive would be entirely suitable for a small
vehicle that always runs on smoooth or gradually changing surfaces, but
hardly seems intelligent for a (large) car in everyday driving conditions..
A large car wouldn't become a lot lighter by removal of the engine and
transmission, since a considerable amount of space would likely be used for
batteries.

The extreme forces that the motor would need to withstand in real-world
conditions.. potholes, abrupt impacts of road debris etc, would be applied
as shock loads to the rotational power from the motor, with only the drive
belt to absorb such rotational shocks (by the looks of it).

Shaking and jarring the rotating motor components would likely result in
serious inefficiencies in the application of the horizontally-oriented motor
shaft power, IMO.

If the axle-mounted motor were allowed to float by a dampening
mechanism/swing arm-design the power could possibly be applied more smoothly
and likely more efficiently.
WB

The choice is a compromise between the simplicity and reliability of
wheel motors and the improved handling at higher speeds with less
unsprung weight. U joints are still the weakest link in a driveline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_handling

A fast vehicle with in-wheel motors would lose steering control due to
wheel hop before vibration damaged the motor. My suspensionless garden
tractor is barely steerable on trails at top speed, I slide it like a
dirt bike.

jsw

Jordan wrote:
On 3/19/2011 9:27 PM, azotic wrote:

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Why are there so many designs with motors mounted so as to be unsprung?
It's not a good idea, if you want a nice ride and good handling.
Electric motors of real power are heavy.
Putting them in the wheels themselves is even dumber, although it seems
to be a popular choice.

How about mounting them on some sort of gimbal, or even a pivot, with
axles with CV joints at the wheels? Admittedly, et's a lot of hardware,
but as you said, at least they'd be on the sprung side.

What we really need is room-temperature[1] superconductors. :-)

Cheers!
Rich
[1] or preferably, something good for maybe 150 F - it'd be terribly
inconvenient to be half-way across the desert and have your motors
suddenly quench!

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

What I would like to do is base upon the early chevy s-10 and pull 1/2 of
the cylinders from an inline 6

Then, instead of a transmission, run a second ( shortened ) differential in
place of the driveline--with an electric servo thats coupled to the yoke
where the driveline would ordinarily be attached.

Not only does such arrangement allow for regenerative braking, it now allows
a smaller more efficient gas engine to be used, which always runs at either
max fuel effeciency throttle setting or to be dhut off--depending on
load---with the servo acting either as motor or generator as conditions
dictate.

--

..

Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

Thanks!
Rich

Pete C. wrote:
(snip)
Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green"...

What's "wvo?"

Thanks,
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

Thanks!
Rich

There's a company in North Philadelphia that's been doing this for four or
five years. They collect the slurdge from McDonald's, etc. It was not
profitable yet, last time I looked.

I'm worried that McDonald's will like the idea and try it in reverse --
converting diesel to deep-fryer oil.

--
Ed Huntress

Rich Grise wrote:
Pete C. wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"


Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.


From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

Thanks!
Rich


The little I know is that some mates got in early and got used oil
supplies agreed with local users and were making good quality biodiesel
for their own consumption for about a 1/4 the UK pump price. The trouble
now is that the big boys have ramped up and can offer higher prices for
the used oil and my mates are out of cheap used oil supplies and it's
not worth their time anymore to make it.

Rich Grise wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

Thanks!
Rich

Lots of people have been collecting WVO from small restaurants for
diesel engine use for years. The big restaurants do not pay to have
their waste oil taken away, they have contracts with companies that pay
them to collect the WVO in the large quantities they produce and recycle
it for various uses. The big restaurants have big WVO tanks to collect
the oil and store it until there is enough for a practical pickup,
something the small restaurants don't generally have and why they don't
have collection contracts.

Rich Grise wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
(snip)
Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green"...

What's "wvo?"

Thanks,
Rich

Waste Vegetable Oil a.k.a. used fryer oil. Older diesel engines run just
fine on it direct without bio-diesel processing.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:45:56 -0700, Rich Grise wrote:

Jordan wrote:
On 3/19/2011 9:27 PM, azotic wrote:

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Why are there so many designs with motors mounted so as to be unsprung?
It's not a good idea, if you want a nice ride and good handling.
Electric motors of real power are heavy. Putting them in the wheels
themselves is even dumber, although it seems to be a popular choice.

How about mounting them on some sort of gimbal, or even a pivot, with
axles with CV joints at the wheels? Admittedly, et's a lot of hardware,
but as you said, at least they'd be on the sprung side.

You mean something like -- a modern vehicle drive train?

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:36:26 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Came across this and thought it might interest some of the metal
manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for most moderatley
equiped shops. The only difficultly would be sourcing the electric
motor and inverter to run it. An old laptop with some MCU development
software to control the motor would be intresting to experiment with.

Best Regards
Tom.


Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor isn't
being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are going
green.

Karl

Been done before GE Elec-trak was one version. Didn't sell very well.
http://www.elec-trak.com/
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects...k/ElecTrak.htm

When? Lithium Polymer batteries are a whole different world than lead
acid -- they're still woefully large for the amount of energy they store
per volume than a can of gasoline, but they're a whole lot better than
lead acid.

They're just spendy -- do you want a $10000 lawn tractor?

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Cross-Slide wrote:



Someone in town did their own conversion, they took a small car and
removed the motor. Added a 21 horsepower diesel instead, with a 20
horsepower electric assist motor to the end of the diesel.

I got a donated VW Bug back about 1986, and bought a Kaylor adapter
and GE jet engine starter/generator. You mount the original flywheel
and clutch on the adapter, and install on the transaxle. I had to make
another adapter to hold the bayonet mount of the jet engine starter to
the Kaylor adapter. I got 4 90-AH deep-cycle trolling motor batteries.
I built a 13 A variable switching regulator to adjust field winding current.
The armature was just on-off, with resistive starting.
This all worked remarkably well, and I drove it around a little. The VW
body was WAYYYY too far gone to pass inspection, so I had no plates on the
thing, so I couldn't go very far. The plan was to make it a hybrid, with
a Honda 350 engine and a stratofortress 400 A generator. The stratofort
generator cranked the Honda engine really well, but I couldn't get it to
run worth a darn, probably needed a real rebuild. I also needed to come up
with a much more robust coupling between engine and generator. Also, the
GE motor, at full field current, was INSANELY noisy, a loud high whine.

I did get some decent data off it. I found I could putter around at 100 A
at 48 V, and could easily climb real hills at 30 MPH on 200-250 A.
I was actually surprised at the low power consumption. 250 A at 48 V is
just 12 KW, or 16 HP. I couldn't go above that to protect the batteries and
wiring.

Jon

Tim Wescott wrote:

Been done before GE Elec-trak was one version. Didn't sell very well.
http://www.elec-trak.com/
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects...k/ElecTrak.htm

When? Lithium Polymer batteries are a whole different world than lead
acid -- they're still woefully large for the amount of energy they store
per volume than a can of gasoline, but they're a whole lot better than
lead acid.

They're just spendy -- do you want a $10000 lawn tractor?


They stopped production in 76-77 IIRC. Wheel Horse bought the technology
and produced until 83.

Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse and New Idea all had a small ride on mower as
well. The motors held up well as long as you kept track of the brushes.
The problem was that the batteries (same as 5volt golf cart units) were
expensive to replace.

--
Steve W.

On Mar 19, 5:42*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
...
I was actually surprised at the low power consumption. *250 A at 48 V is
just 12 KW, or 16 HP. *I couldn't go above that to protect the batteries and
wiring.
Jon

In Germany I had a 1961 Beetle with what I think was a 25HP engine, it
was a hybrid of the US and German versions that had been kicking
around Army bases for years, and unlike the Germans we could freely
swap engines. Flat-out on a level road like the Autobahn north of
Basel it could reach 62MPH / 100KPH after about 15 minutes. It wasn't
so bad on the back roads I preferred.

The substantially less aerodynamic Model T could do 40 - 45MPH on
20HP.

jsw

Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:45:56 -0700, Rich Grise wrote:
Jordan wrote:
On 3/19/2011 9:27 PM, azotic wrote:

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Why are there so many designs with motors mounted so as to be unsprung?
It's not a good idea, if you want a nice ride and good handling.
Electric motors of real power are heavy. Putting them in the wheels
themselves is even dumber, although it seems to be a popular choice.

How about mounting them on some sort of gimbal, or even a pivot, with
axles with CV joints at the wheels? Admittedly, et's a lot of hardware,
but as you said, at least they'd be on the sprung side.

You mean something like -- a modern vehicle drive train?

Yes, something very much like that, but with an electric motor (or two,
or four); batteries (assuming we've got enough battery technology to make
it worthwhile) and a gasoline, propane, LNG, or diesel generator.

And regenerative braking, which would depend on fast-charge battery
technology.

Thanks,
Rich

Pete C. wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
(snip)
Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green"...

What's "wvo?"

Waste Vegetable Oil a.k.a. used fryer oil. Older diesel engines run just
fine on it direct without bio-diesel processing.

Ah! Biodiesel! Somewhere on this NG I posted something about biodiesel,
wondering why somebody hasn't already jumped on it?

Used deep-fry oil is free - in fact, the way I understand it, restaurants
currently have to pay somebody to haul it off for disposal - what's keeping
somebody from going around, talking to restarateurs, offering to haul away
their used oil cheaper than the garbage/hazmat people are doing it, doing
some filtration, and selling it for, say, two bucks a gallon?

Politics?

Thanks,
Rich

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

There's a company in North Philadelphia that's been doing this for four or
five years. They collect the slurdge from McDonald's, etc. It was not
profitable yet, last time I looked.

I'm worried that McDonald's will like the idea and try it in reverse --
converting diesel to deep-fryer oil.

Well, except for a few little technical details, isn't oil, pretty much oil?

But I don't think I'd want to eat french fries that were cooked in kerosene.
;-P

Thanks,
Rich

Pete C. wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

Lots of people have been collecting WVO from small restaurants for
diesel engine use for years. The big restaurants do not pay to have
their waste oil taken away, they have contracts with companies that pay
them to collect the WVO in the large quantities they produce and recycle
it for various uses. The big restaurants have big WVO tanks to collect
the oil and store it until there is enough for a practical pickup,
something the small restaurants don't generally have and why they don't
have collection contracts.

Hmmm - sounds like a niche market; might be viable if Obammy the commy
wasn't making war on small business.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
(snip)
Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green"...

What's "wvo?"

Waste Vegetable Oil a.k.a. used fryer oil. Older diesel engines run just
fine on it direct without bio-diesel processing.

Ah! Biodiesel! Somewhere on this NG I posted something about biodiesel,
wondering why somebody hasn't already jumped on it?

Used deep-fry oil is free - in fact, the way I understand it, restaurants
currently have to pay somebody to haul it off for disposal

Nope, they get paid for the waste oil. They have big tanks ~500 gal they
collect it in and the recycling company stops by to pick it up each
month.

what's keeping
somebody from going around, talking to restarateurs, offering to haul away
their used oil cheaper than the garbage/hazmat people are doing it, doing
some filtration, and selling it for, say, two bucks a gallon?

Already being done. Don't think it's going to bio-diesel though,
probably used as feed stock for some other oil based stuff.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:51:58 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

I got curious about it and asked a handful of fast food managers. They
all said that a company comes and takes it away, prepaid from the
corporate office. You can't seem to buy it here. I'll bet the small
fast food restaurants give/sell it to their trucking buddies.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:51:58 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

I got curious about it and asked a handful of fast food managers. They
all said that a company comes and takes it away, prepaid from the
corporate office. You can't seem to buy it here. I'll bet the small
fast food restaurants give/sell it to their trucking buddies.

I seriously doubt any trucker is going to put straight WVO in their
$150k truck, nor will they have enough spare time at home to run a
bio-diesel processor.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:40:10 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:51:58 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 03:27:49 -0700, "azotic"

Came across this and thought it might interest some of
the metal manglers that lurk about.

http://xlhybrids.com/products/conversion

Seems like this would be a fairly simple project for
most moderatley equiped shops. The only difficultly
would be sourcing the electric motor and inverter to run
it. An old laptop with some MCU development software
to control the motor would be intresting to experiment
with.

Seems to me an HSM type should take on a tractor. Either a garden unit
at say 10hp. or a small utility at 25hp. Weight and space aren't
serious problems with these. Makes fabrication far easier. Run time
isn't that long per charge so the battery pack doesn't need to be
huge.

My plates too full already, or I'd be on here finding a power EE type
to make it happen. I'm a bit surprised an electric garden tractor
isn't being sold. It would satisfy the yuppies need to say they are
going green.

Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

I got curious about it and asked a handful of fast food managers. They
all said that a company comes and takes it away, prepaid from the
corporate office. You can't seem to buy it here. I'll bet the small
fast food restaurants give/sell it to their trucking buddies.

I seriously doubt any trucker is going to put straight WVO in their
$150k truck, nor will they have enough spare time at home to run a
bio-diesel processor.

Nah, diesel _pickemup_ owners.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

"Steve W." wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

Been done before GE Elec-trak was one version. Didn't sell very well.
http://www.elec-trak.com/
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects...k/ElecTrak.htm

When? Lithium Polymer batteries are a whole different world than lead
acid -- they're still woefully large for the amount of energy they store
per volume than a can of gasoline, but they're a whole lot better than
lead acid.

They're just spendy -- do you want a $10000 lawn tractor?


They stopped production in 76-77 IIRC. Wheel Horse bought the technology
and produced until 83.

Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse and New Idea all had a small ride on mower as
well. The motors held up well as long as you kept track of the brushes.
The problem was that the batteries (same as 5volt golf cart units) were
expensive to replace.


My dad has a battery powered push mower from this company:

http://www.neutonpower.com/


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On 3/20/2011 6:04 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
U joints are still the weakest link in a driveline.


Yet uni joints are actually very reliable, and cheap and easy to replace
if necessary.

On Mar 20, 5:05*am, Jordan wrote:
On 3/20/2011 6:04 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

U joints are still the weakest link in a driveline.

Yet uni joints are actually very reliable, and cheap and easy to replace
if necessary.

The 'lubed for life' U joints on my truck went bad at around 50,000
miles, just after the warranty ended. They lasted the life of the
lube. The greaseable replacements are fine after another 100,000.

jsw

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

My dad has a battery powered push mower from this company:
http://www.neutonpower.com/

"Battery powered push mower?"

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron, like "military intelligence?"

Thanks,
Rich

On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 05:59:22 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

My dad has a battery powered push mower from this company:
http://www.neutonpower.com/

"Battery powered push mower?"

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron, like "military intelligence?"

These Zeons look pretty neat. I'd like one for my birthday in August,
please. http://electricridingmower.net/
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10260660-48.html

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 05:59:22 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

My dad has a battery powered push mower from this company:
http://www.neutonpower.com/

"Battery powered push mower?"

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron, like "military intelligence?"


No, dumb ass. Push, as opposed to a riding mower or self propelled.

The reason women call you 'babe' is they mistook you for Paul
Bunion's Ox, moron.


These Zeons look pretty neat. I'd like one for my birthday in August,
please. http://electricridingmower.net/
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10260660-48.html


I'll get right on that, as soon as there's complete peace in the
Middle East, and Tom gets his atomic powered flying car.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 05:59:22 -0700, Rich Grise

"Battery powered push mower?"

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron, like "military intelligence?"

No, dumb ass. Push, as opposed to a riding mower or self propelled.

'Smatter, can't take a joke?

Thanks,
Rich

On Mar 19, 4:48*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
Run your existing diesel tractor on bio or wvo and be "green" with a lot
less hassle and without getting stuck mid job in the field with a dead
battery.

From what I've read about biodiesel from used deep-fryer oil from all
the fast-food joints, has anybody jumped on that? Buy a truck, go around
and haul their used oil away - AFAIK, they currently have to pay to have
it hauled away - filter it, maybe crack it a little, and make a fortune
selling it at two bucks a gallon!

Anybody got any opinions, or, heaven forbid, actual facts about this
one way or the other? ;-)

There's a company in North Philadelphia that's been doing this for four or
five years. They collect the slurdge from McDonald's, etc. It was not
profitable yet, last time I looked.

I'm worried that McDonald's will like the idea and try it in reverse --
converting diesel to deep-fryer oil.

Well, except for a few little technical details, isn't oil, pretty much oil?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But I don't think I'd want to eat french fries that were cooked in kerosene.
;-P

Thanks,
Rich- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, no. A quick glance at any industrial chemistry book will show
you the difference between petroleum oils and seed oils.
And "waste" cooking oil and fat isn't useless, just useless for
cooking food. Has a lot of industrial uses from
soap-making to pet food. People are willing to pay to get it. And
there isn't enough waste cooking oil in the world to replace gasoline
or diesel fuel for everything. Biggest thing the waste oil burners
are doing is evading the road taxes on fuel. And if they're
esterifying
their oil, the sodium hydroxide and methanol isn't cheap or free,
either. Production of sodium hydroxide isn't exactly green, either,
it's a product of the electrochemical industry.

My decades old diesel design manual mentions that while diesels can be
run on vegetable oils like peanut oil, the oils
tend to gum up everything and the engines need tearing down and
refurbing long before they are worn. I know that my
sister's diesel Jetta forbids using biodiesel right in the warranty.
Whether it's because of the gum-up problem or another reason,
I don't know.

Stan