The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

When I was in high school the shop teacher put a ring gear on a flywheel.
He just put the flywheel in the freezer in the cafeteria and the ring in the
oven.
I don't know what temperature the oven was, but I recall the students were
impressed with how lose the ring was when he dropped it on the flywheel.
I seem to recall it was for an MG. YMMV
Mikek

amdx wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

When I was in high school the shop teacher put a ring gear on a flywheel.
He just put the flywheel in the freezer in the cafeteria and the ring in the
oven.
I don't know what temperature the oven was, but I recall the students were
impressed with how lose the ring was when he dropped it on the flywheel.
I seem to recall it was for an MG. YMMV
Mikek

The flywheel / ring gear is pretty large diameter, so you don't need a
whole lot of differential expansion to get good clearance. I would think
just a few hundred degrees temperature differential would be plenty.
When fitting much smaller spindle bearings of around 5" ID we wrapped
them in foil and put them in a toaster oven at 250 for a little while
with good results.

On Feb 10, 7:10*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

I changed a ring gear on a snowblower flywheel recently. I pressed
the old one off and installed a better one by heating it up in the
nose of a torpedo heater. It just fit. I pulled it out with some
vise grips and it dropped right in place. Worked great!

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

In article , "amdx" wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
.. .
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

When I was in high school the shop teacher put a ring gear on a flywheel.
He just put the flywheel in the freezer in the cafeteria and the ring in the
oven.
I don't know what temperature the oven was, but I recall the students were
impressed with how lose the ring was when he dropped it on the flywheel.
I seem to recall it was for an MG. YMMV
Mikek

Yep. My son and I did something similar when we rebuilt the transmission on
his car last spring: drum in the freezer overnight, annulus in the oven at
about 400 F for an hour, and it slid right on.

Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

On Feb 10, 8:10*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

I did the ring gear thing once on my truck. I was also worried about
the 1 shot nature of the task. Followed directions that came with the
ring gear, something like 15 minutes in the oven at 400???? Tried to
move it to the flywheel real fast just in case. I thought it would
never shrink down enough, seemed like 1/4" clearance, and took a
minute or 2 to shrink down to fit. I would not worry if I had to do
it again.

CarlBoyd

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
awful.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
awful.

Karl

It's been down to single digits at night here in hot sunny Texas, I'm
freezing my butt off too.

On Feb 10, 12:08*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
awful.

Karl

It's been down to single digits at night here in hot sunny Texas, I'm
freezing my butt off too.


Years ago when I was an outside salesman for an auto parts warehouse,
I called on a machine shop/store. This was a very old business, owned
by a couple of crusty, grouchy old machinists.
I stepped out the backdoor, then came back in and told one of them
"Hey, do you know you have a fire out here??!!!!"
He grinned and said "I did that". He had an old cardboard box, threw
in some additional carboard scraps, dropped a ring gear in it and set
it on fire. then he went back inside to work on another job.
Once the fire burned down, he grabbed the ring gear with some pliers
and dropped it on the waiting flywheel

So the short answer to how much heat: not very much

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
awful.


Come on, Karl! We slept in a tent half, at lower temperatures in the
Army.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Rex wrote:

On Feb 10, 12:08 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
awful.

Karl

It's been down to single digits at night here in hot sunny Texas, I'm
freezing my butt off too.

Years ago when I was an outside salesman for an auto parts warehouse,
I called on a machine shop/store. This was a very old business, owned
by a couple of crusty, grouchy old machinists.
I stepped out the backdoor, then came back in and told one of them
"Hey, do you know you have a fire out here??!!!!"
He grinned and said "I did that". He had an old cardboard box, threw
in some additional carboard scraps, dropped a ring gear in it and set
it on fire. then he went back inside to work on another job.
Once the fire burned down, he grabbed the ring gear with some pliers
and dropped it on the waiting flywheel

So the short answer to how much heat: not very much


So, you've never read Fahrenheit 451?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:21:12 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:

Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
don't know this temp - maybe 400.

Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.

Karl

Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
negative temps.

Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
awful.


Come on, Karl! We slept in a tent half, at lower temperatures in the
Army.

Yep, when we were young. But you turned into a fragile florida flower.
And I wish I'd stayed south longer.

Karl

Denis G. wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:10 am, Karl
wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

I changed a ring gear on a snowblower flywheel recently. I pressed
the old one off and installed a better one by heating it up in the
nose of a torpedo heater. It just fit. I pulled it out with some
vise grips and it dropped right in place. Worked great!


Here are some pictures of another shrink fit operation.

http://www.nps.gov/stea/photosmultim...ing_a_tire.pdf


Steel moves at 6 millionths per degree per inch diameter. You can
easily figure how much clearance you will get for a differential in
temperature of the two parts. A combination of chilling and heating
will do the job. Just make sure you have a stop for the ring gear as it
drops on the flywheel.
Those tires in the pictures are 84" in diameter and had an interference
fit of .040 Inch.
The material is 4140 alloy steel.

John

On 2011-02-11, John wrote:
Denis G. wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:10 am, Karl
wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

I changed a ring gear on a snowblower flywheel recently. I pressed
the old one off and installed a better one by heating it up in the
nose of a torpedo heater. It just fit. I pulled it out with some
vise grips and it dropped right in place. Worked great!


Here are some pictures of another shrink fit operation.

http://www.nps.gov/stea/photosmultim...ing_a_tire.pdf

Note a sentenc "The flow of oxygen is cut back to produce a bluish
flame which is much hotter". Seems like they got it backwards.

Otherwise it was great.

i


Steel moves at 6 millionths per degree per inch diameter. You can
easily figure how much clearance you will get for a differential in
temperature of the two parts. A combination of chilling and heating
will do the job. Just make sure you have a stop for the ring gear as it
drops on the flywheel.
Those tires in the pictures are 84" in diameter and had an interference
fit of .040 Inch.
The material is 4140 alloy steel.

John

Ignoramus14242 wrote:
On 2011-02-11, wrote:
Denis G. wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:10 am, Karl
wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

I changed a ring gear on a snowblower flywheel recently. I pressed
the old one off and installed a better one by heating it up in the
nose of a torpedo heater. It just fit. I pulled it out with some
vise grips and it dropped right in place. Worked great!


Here are some pictures of another shrink fit operation.

http://www.nps.gov/stea/photosmultim...ing_a_tire.pdf

Note a sentenc "The flow of oxygen is cut back to produce a bluish
flame which is much hotter". Seems like they got it backwards.

Otherwise it was great.

i


Steel moves at 6 millionths per degree per inch diameter. You can
easily figure how much clearance you will get for a differential in
temperature of the two parts. A combination of chilling and heating
will do the job. Just make sure you have a stop for the ring gear as it
drops on the flywheel.
Those tires in the pictures are 84" in diameter and had an interference
fit of .040 Inch.
The material is 4140 alloy steel.

John


I only cut the Id of the tires for them because they didn't have their
boring mill set up yet. They just fit on my vtl.
If you ever get to Scranton PA get the tour of steamtown.


John

On 2011-02-11, John wrote:

I only cut the Id of the tires for them because they didn't have their
boring mill set up yet. They just fit on my vtl.
If you ever get to Scranton PA get the tour of steamtown.

Wow. I go to Railway museum in Union, IL, every year, with kids.

Once I bought a welder and a compressor from that museum. Still have a
huge 8/4 cable from the welder.

i

On Feb 10, 9:27*pm, John wrote:
Ignoramus14242 wrote:
On 2011-02-11, *wrote:
Denis G. wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:10 am, Karl
wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

I changed a ring gear on a snowblower flywheel recently. *I pressed
the old one off and installed a better one by heating it up in the
nose of a torpedo heater. *It just fit. *I pulled it out with some
vise grips and it dropped right in place. *Worked great!

Here are some pictures of another shrink fit operation.

http://www.nps.gov/stea/photosmultim...ing_a_tire.pdf

Note a sentenc "The flow of oxygen is cut back to produce a bluish
flame which is much hotter". Seems like they got it backwards.

Otherwise it was great.

i

Steel moves at *6 millionths per degree per inch diameter. *You can
easily figure how much clearance you will get for a differential in
temperature of the two parts. *A combination of chilling and heating
will do the job. *Just make sure you have a stop for the ring gear as it
drops on the flywheel.
Those tires in the pictures are 84" in diameter and had an interference
fit of .040 Inch.
The material is 4140 alloy steel.

John

I only cut the Id *of the tires for them because they didn't have their
boring mill set up yet. *They just fit on my vtl.
If you ever get to Scranton PA get the tour of steamtown.

John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a picture that my wife took of me standing next to the Union
Pacific 4012, but that was when it was in Bellows Falls, VT. I'll
have to visit it when I pass thru PA on the way back to New England.
I didn't know that there was a railroad museum nearby in Union, IL.
I'll have to check that out too!

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:21:12 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Karl Townsend wrote:
??
?? On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:14:24 -0600, "Pete C." ?
?? wrote:
??
?? ?
?? ?Karl Townsend wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? Thanks everybody, I'll heat it to where a spritz of wd40 smokes. I
?? ?? don't know this temp - maybe 400.
?? ??
?? ?? Lucky for me its -17 outside so i got a good freezer for the flywheel.
?? ??
?? ?? Karl
?? ?
?? ?Really, that doesn't matter much. It's temperature differential that
?? ?matters, so -17F only adds 86F to the differential vs. 65F room temp.
?? ?The heating is what matters, unless you have LN2 handy to get some real
?? ?negative temps.
??
?? Dang, didn't get any sympathy for you. This cold snap is just plain
?? awful.
?
?
? Come on, Karl! We slept in a tent half, at lower temperatures in the
?Army.

Yep, when we were young. But you turned into a fragile florida flower.
And I wish I'd stayed south longer.


Karl, it is 59 degrees in the house right now. I'm in a tee shirt &
shorts. I went to our Pearl Harbor ceremony the same way, and it was in
the 30s. I see people in long winter coats when it's 70 degrees around
here. I get tired of people asking, "Aren't you cold?" all the time.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Karl Townsend wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up, and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil, etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go to red hot.

Karl

Toss flywheel in freezer, make sure it is DRY when you are ready to drop
on the ring gear though.

Toss the ring gear in an oven at 400 degrees for 20 minutes.
Pull the ring gear out, drop it onto the flywheel.

Let them stabilize at room temperature and you're done.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Steve W." wrote in message
Karl Townsend wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel
should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat
it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up,
and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round
with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil,
etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go
to red hot.

Karl

Toss flywheel in freezer, make sure it is DRY
when you are ready to drop
on the ring gear though.

Toss the ring gear in an oven at 400 degrees for
20 minutes.
Pull the ring gear out, drop it onto the
flywheel.

Let them stabilize at room temperature and
you're done.

--
Steve W.

Is it really necessary to freeze the flywheel? Has
anyone ever
measured the reduction in diameter doing it this
way? Seems
to me to be a waste of time, the ring gear will
expand far more
than the wheel shrinks.......IMO......, eih? phil
k.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:32:48 -0500, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote in message
Karl Townsend wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel
should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just heat
it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k up,
and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round
with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke oil,
etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go
to red hot.

Karl

Toss flywheel in freezer, make sure it is DRY
when you are ready to drop
on the ring gear though.

Toss the ring gear in an oven at 400 degrees for
20 minutes.
Pull the ring gear out, drop it onto the
flywheel.

Let them stabilize at room temperature and
you're done.

--
Steve W.

Is it really necessary to freeze the flywheel? Has
anyone ever
measured the reduction in diameter doing it this
way? Seems
to me to be a waste of time, the ring gear will
expand far more
than the wheel shrinks.......IMO......, eih? phil
k.


As stated previously it is the temperature differential that matters,
and to get adequate differential by heating alone the heated part may
be over-heated. By srinking the second part you gain significant
differential advantage without the danger of damaging the outer part
from overheat. If they are made of the same material each will change
size by virtually the same amount per degree of temperature change, in
opposite directions.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:32:48 -0500, "Phil
Kangas"
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote in message
Karl Townsend wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel
should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just
heat
it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k
up,
and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round
with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke
oil,
etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go
to red hot.

Karl

Toss flywheel in freezer, make sure it is DRY
when you are ready to drop
on the ring gear though.

Toss the ring gear in an oven at 400 degrees
for
20 minutes.
Pull the ring gear out, drop it onto the
flywheel.

Let them stabilize at room temperature and
you're done.

--
Steve W.

Is it really necessary to freeze the flywheel?
Has
anyone ever
measured the reduction in diameter doing it this
way? Seems
to me to be a waste of time, the ring gear will
expand far more
than the wheel shrinks.......IMO......, eih?
phil
k.


As stated previously it is the temperature
differential that matters,
and to get adequate differential by heating
alone the heated part may
be over-heated. By srinking the second part you
gain significant
differential advantage without the danger of
damaging the outer part
from overheat. If they are made of the same
material each will change
size by virtually the same amount per degree of
temperature change, in
opposite directions.

Yah, but, the flywheel is cast iron and the ring
is steel. Cast won't
move as much as steel. We need some actual
measurements!!

On Feb 11, 8:35*pm, "Phil Kangas" wrote:




Yah, but, the flywheel is cast iron and the ring
is steel. Cast won't
move as much as steel. We need some actual
measurements!!

Per The Engineering Toolbox

Grey cast iron 6.0 (10-6 in/in oF)

Steel 7.3 (10-6 in/in oF)

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Feb 11, 8:35 pm, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:




Yah, but, the flywheel is cast iron and the ring
is steel. Cast won't
move as much as steel. We need some actual
measurements!!

Per The Engineering Toolbox

Grey cast iron 6.0 (10-6 in/in oF)

Steel 7.3 (10-6 in/in oF)

Dan

We need to actually 'measure a flywheel' ! phil

Phil Kangas wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Feb 11, 8:35 pm, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:



Yah, but, the flywheel is cast iron and the ring
is steel. Cast won't
move as much as steel. We need some actual
measurements!!

Per The Engineering Toolbox

Grey cast iron 6.0 (10-6 in/in oF)

Steel 7.3 (10-6 in/in oF)

Dan

We need to actually 'measure a flywheel' ! phil





WHY? I have installed probably 50 ring gears and other assorted items
this way over the years. Used this same set of temps for years.

This is also the factory method for the particular engine.

It falls into the category of "Don't fix what ain't broke"

--
Steve W.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:35:56 -0500, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:32:48 -0500, "Phil
Kangas"
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote in message
Karl Townsend wrote:
The new ring gear for my tractor flywheel
should arrive today...

I've never done this. Pretty sure you just
heat
it and drop on. OK,
how hot? I know there's only one shot, f%^k
up,
and go buy another
ring gear. I'm planning to go round and round
with the rose bud and
need a guide line like hot enough to smoke
oil,
etc. I got no way to
measure the temp. Surely, it don't need to go
to red hot.

Karl

Toss flywheel in freezer, make sure it is DRY
when you are ready to drop
on the ring gear though.

Toss the ring gear in an oven at 400 degrees
for
20 minutes.
Pull the ring gear out, drop it onto the
flywheel.

Let them stabilize at room temperature and
you're done.

--
Steve W.

Is it really necessary to freeze the flywheel?
Has
anyone ever
measured the reduction in diameter doing it this
way? Seems
to me to be a waste of time, the ring gear will
expand far more
than the wheel shrinks.......IMO......, eih?
phil
k.


As stated previously it is the temperature
differential that matters,
and to get adequate differential by heating
alone the heated part may
be over-heated. By srinking the second part you
gain significant
differential advantage without the danger of
damaging the outer part
from overheat. If they are made of the same
material each will change
size by virtually the same amount per degree of
temperature change, in
opposite directions.

Yah, but, the flywheel is cast iron and the ring
is steel. Cast won't
move as much as steel. We need some actual
measurements!!


Expansion rates per degree F i n microinches for various irons and
steels are as follows:

Grey Cast Iron 5.8
3% carbon cast steel 7.0
Ductile Iron 5.9 to 6.2
Maleable Iron 7.5
Nodular Iron 6.5
Pure Iron 6.8
Wrought Carbon Steel 7.8

Has the flywheel material been definitely identified? Some are cast
steel, some are nodular iron, and very very few are grey cast iron
(and then some are aluminum).

Assuming it is cast steel or nodular iron and thering gear is carbon
steel, there is a 10 to 20 percent difference in the rate of
expansion, so you get 10-10% more movement per degree out of the ring
gear than the flywheel.
In this case, that is hardly significant.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Phil Kangas wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Feb 11, 8:35 pm, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:



Yah, but, the flywheel is cast iron and the
ring
is steel. Cast won't
move as much as steel. We need some actual
measurements!!

Per The Engineering Toolbox

Grey cast iron 6.0 (10-6 in/in oF)

Steel 7.3 (10-6 in/in oF)

Dan

We need to actually 'measure a flywheel' !
phil





WHY? I have installed probably 50 ring gears and
other assorted items
this way over the years. Used this same set of
temps for years.

This is also the factory method for the
particular engine.

It falls into the category of "Don't fix what
ain't broke"

--
Steve W.

Awl riiight..... Let's crank some numbers he
Both the ring gear and flywheel are at 70 F., 12
inch wheel.
Cool the flywheel to -20 F., 90 deg change.
0.000006 x 12 x 90 = 0.00648 reduction in dia.
Heat the ring gear to 400 F., 330 deg change.
0.0000073 x (12 x pi) x 330 = 0.09082 expansion.
(12 x pi) + 0.09082 = 37.78993 heated "length".
37.78993 ÷ pi = 12.0289
So we get the ring to expand 0.0289" in diameter
and the
wheel shrinks 0.00648 inches. So I ask you, do you
still
think you need the 0.00648? I don't think so, it's
a waste
of time to freeze the wheel. That's my answer and
I'm
sticking to it. I don't care one whit how many
you've done.
phil k.

"WayneJ" wrote in
message newsp.vqs05laznatzq9@dellilah...
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 09:02:36 -0800, Phil Kangas

wrote:

Awl riiight..... Let's crank some numbers he
Both the ring gear and flywheel are at 70 F., 12
inch wheel.
Cool the flywheel to -20 F., 90 deg change.
0.000006 x 12 x 90 = 0.00648 reduction in dia.
Heat the ring gear to 400 F., 330 deg change.
0.0000073 x (12 x pi) x 330 = 0.09082 expansion.
(12 x pi) + 0.09082 = 37.78993 heated "length".
37.78993 ÷ pi = 12.0289
So we get the ring to expand 0.0289" in diameter
and the
wheel shrinks 0.00648 inches. So I ask you, do
you
still

I have no argument with your conclusion, but you
made the math for the
ring gear overly complex. Some people might be a
little intimidated by the
method you used, even though it is correct.

A simpler way is to treat the ring gear the same
as the flywheel.

Heat the ring gear to 400 F., 330 deg change.
0.0000073 x 12 x 330 = 0.028908 increase in
diameter.

The changes from diameter to circumference and
back to diameter are
unnecessary and only add the opertunity for an
error to creep in.

WayneJ


Sometimes I'm too methodical for my own good, but
that's the
way my brain works ..... ;))
phil k.

Karl Townsend wrote:

Of all the things I've lost, i miss my mind the most.


You left it behind your lathe. ;-)


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:23:48 -0600, Ignoramus15263
wrote:

On 2011-02-12, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
Sometimes I'm too methodical for my own good, but
that's the
way my brain works ..... ;))
phil k.

At least yours still works.

Of all the things I've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Karl

I was just wondering, do you guys find that people become less
productive after 40? I will have my 40th anniversary in march

It sure didn't do Bret Favre any good!

Our capabilities change with time. Some people become more productive
in later years. Physical strength and stamina diminish and it gets
harder to assimilate facts and details by rote short-term memory, but
experience starts to become wisdom, judgement and "intuition" that can
produce good decisions no amount of algorithmic analysis, deduction or
induction could produce. Athletes and soldiers are best before 40.
Generals, judges and professors require more seasoning.

An older person may have a much richer skill set than his junior
associates if he's bothered to grow them along the way. He may not be
able to perform a given menial task as quickly as a younger person,
but he may be able to work a lot smarter with fewer errors, and hence
be more productive. I include software coding as a menial task in this
context. Not software design, crunching code. He may be able to
mentor and lead a group of less-skilled people, thus greatly
magnifying group productivity.

I won quite a few more patents after age 40 than I did before age 40,
but I had one hell of a time learning to use PIC microcontrollers at
about age 65. That task would have been trivial 30 years earlier. My
problem was short term memory for arcane details in assimilating a
187-page data sheet. The "data sheet" for the then-new Motorola 6800
in 1975 was the size of an urban phone book and I had no problem
absorbing that in a couple of days ... when I was in my 30s. I
learned FORTRAN self-taught in two days when I was in my 20s. I
mastered PASCAL in a week when I was in my 40s. I still haven't
mastered C and probably never will. I'd like to, but I'd need a coach
and I don't know anyone who would have the patience to coach me and I
don't blame them a bit. Maybe when it's my turn to be in a home I'll
have a laptop on Wi-fi or whatever it is. I'll definitely have an
unregistered ancient pepperbox .22 pistol secreted in me kit.

Mar is en pointe in our current episode, I'm on her six. The rehab
facility looks like Valhalla on their website but it ain't. It's not
quite a hellhole but it's way far from Mayo. We lucked out with a
very good nurse, Demitu, an African, beautiful young woman. She's
stunning, a headturner. She shortened it to Demi for us. She's the RN
that gave me an A on ace bandage wrapping.

Some people change priorities a bit after a couple of decades of
adulthood. They've learned how to be productive enough to sustain a
comfortable standard of living without busting their hump so they
segue from growth-as-job1 to a more level maintenance mode -- just
enough growth to avoid career stasis -- and increase focus on other
things like family, friends, leisure, avocations, community service,
stuff like that. They're very productive if you expand the notion of
productivity well beyond income production and treasure accumulation.

Note: Days spent fishing are not deducted from lifespan. Hours spent
taking a child fishing are added to lifespan.

What's gray and comes in gallons? Elephants, not old men. But 40 is
not old. My sex life began at 40 after my first wife threw me out at
39.

I do recall a bonk at age 40: my son and I had made a birdhouse on a
kid's weekend with me in 1982 when I was 40 and he was 10. He
designed it, made it, painted it and wanted it up in an oak tree in my
(rented) back yard. Hey, no prob, I'll toss a rope over yonder high
limb and squirrel up the rope hand-over-hand like I did back in Army
days, right?

WRONG! I did make it up there with the birdhouse doing a sort of
reverse rappel but that was definitely a wakeup call. UNGH!

Don Foreman wrote:

On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:23:48 -0600, Ignoramus15263
wrote:

On 2011-02-12, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
Sometimes I'm too methodical for my own good, but
that's the
way my brain works ..... ;))
phil k.

At least yours still works.

Of all the things I've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Karl

I was just wondering, do you guys find that people become less
productive after 40? I will have my 40th anniversary in march

It sure didn't do Bret Favre any good!

Our capabilities change with time. Some people become more productive
in later years. Physical strength and stamina diminish and it gets
harder to assimilate facts and details by rote short-term memory, but
experience starts to become wisdom, judgement and "intuition" that can
produce good decisions no amount of algorithmic analysis, deduction or
induction could produce. Athletes and soldiers are best before 40.
Generals, judges and professors require more seasoning.

An older person may have a much richer skill set than his junior
associates if he's bothered to grow them along the way. He may not be
able to perform a given menial task as quickly as a younger person,
but he may be able to work a lot smarter with fewer errors, and hence
be more productive. I include software coding as a menial task in this
context. Not software design, crunching code. He may be able to
mentor and lead a group of less-skilled people, thus greatly
magnifying group productivity.

I won quite a few more patents after age 40 than I did before age 40,
but I had one hell of a time learning to use PIC microcontrollers at
about age 65. That task would have been trivial 30 years earlier. My
problem was short term memory for arcane details in assimilating a
187-page data sheet. The "data sheet" for the then-new Motorola 6800
in 1975 was the size of an urban phone book and I had no problem
absorbing that in a couple of days ... when I was in my 30s. I
learned FORTRAN self-taught in two days when I was in my 20s. I
mastered PASCAL in a week when I was in my 40s. I still haven't
mastered C and probably never will. I'd like to, but I'd need a coach
and I don't know anyone who would have the patience to coach me and I
don't blame them a bit. Maybe when it's my turn to be in a home I'll
have a laptop on Wi-fi or whatever it is. I'll definitely have an
unregistered ancient pepperbox .22 pistol secreted in me kit.

Mar is en pointe in our current episode, I'm on her six. The rehab
facility looks like Valhalla on their website but it ain't. It's not
quite a hellhole but it's way far from Mayo. We lucked out with a
very good nurse, Demitu, an African, beautiful young woman. She's
stunning, a headturner. She shortened it to Demi for us. She's the RN
that gave me an A on ace bandage wrapping.

Some people change priorities a bit after a couple of decades of
adulthood. They've learned how to be productive enough to sustain a
comfortable standard of living without busting their hump so they
segue from growth-as-job1 to a more level maintenance mode -- just
enough growth to avoid career stasis -- and increase focus on other
things like family, friends, leisure, avocations, community service,
stuff like that. They're very productive if you expand the notion of
productivity well beyond income production and treasure accumulation.

Note: Days spent fishing are not deducted from lifespan. Hours spent
taking a child fishing are added to lifespan.

What's gray and comes in gallons? Elephants, not old men. But 40 is
not old. My sex life began at 40 after my first wife threw me out at
39.

I do recall a bonk at age 40: my son and I had made a birdhouse on a
kid's weekend with me in 1982 when I was 40 and he was 10. He
designed it, made it, painted it and wanted it up in an oak tree in my
(rented) back yard. Hey, no prob, I'll toss a rope over yonder high
limb and squirrel up the rope hand-over-hand like I did back in Army
days, right?

WRONG! I did make it up there with the birdhouse doing a sort of
reverse rappel but that was definitely a wakeup call. UNGH!


Don't blame yourself. It was the 70 pounds of paint that did it! ;-)


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Ignoramus15263 wrote:
On 2011-02-12, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
Sometimes I'm too methodical for my own good, but
that's the
way my brain works ..... ;))
phil k.

At least yours still works.

Of all the things I've lost, i miss my mind the most.

I was just wondering, do you guys find that people become less
productive after 40? I will have my 40th anniversary in march

Not necessarily. We've got a machinist where I sit who's my
age (early 60's), and he's about as hale and hearty and robust
as any kid the same size - he still schleps 100 pounds of steel
around like it's a feather, where to me, it feels like it's bolted
to the floor.

But he's been doing that stuff for the last 40 years, while I've
been mostly sitting at a desk.

Cheers!
Rich