"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire. But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

"Lewis Hartswick" wrote in message
m...
Pete Snell wrote:
And any one who has worked in the infrared field for quite a few years
would tell you it not "bunk" but the truth.
...lew...

Interesting. Could you expand on that? If the co2 in the atmosphere
makes it opaque to infrared (that is; blocked entirely), how is it that
sunlight warms things?

Pete

If I have to explain that to you, I wonder just what you do
at that college in the physics dept.
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada

...lew...

Lew,

The witness I refered to is Will Happer. You can see his testimony he
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/re...testimony.html

The blatant falshood he bases his whole argument on is the following:
"Additional increments of CO2 will cause relatively less direct warming
because we already have so much CO2 in the atmosphere that it has blocked
most of the infrared radiation that it can"

It is true that over most (but not all) of the spectral band where CO2
absorbs in the atmosphere, it is nearly opaque. The issue is that, in the
infrared, opaque, absorbing objects re-emit radiation. For example, take a
piece of blackened foil. It is completely opaque to IR. Put a heat lamp
behind it and look at the other side with an IR camera. After a few secoonds
you will see it start to re-emit radiation. It slows down the radiative
transfer of heat, but it does not block it. In other words it is an
insulator. Add a second piece of foil, and the energy transfer will take
longer. In other words it is a better insulator.

Likewise, something similar happens with CO2 in the atmosphere. If you
consider each thin layer of the atmosphere, some portion of the radiation is
directly transmitted (travels quickly on to the next layer), some is
absorbed heats the layer and is then re-emitted in all directions. Adding
more CO2 increases the portion of absorbed energy in each layer and slows
the transfer of energy to the next. It matters very little that the entire
atmosphere has no direct transmission. The calculation integrating over
all of the layers to determine the net temperature increase at the surface
is presented in a very clear way by a retired proffessor from Iowa State,
Fritz Franzen, (this particular calculation starts on page 14).
http://www.hfranzen.org/GWPPT6.pdf

Happer also talks about the water vapor issue. OF COURSE this is a major
issue to be considered and it is one of the things that makes the problem
difficult. OF COURSE there is a lot of variability in water vapor, its why
we have weather. On average though, the amount of water vapor the atmosphere
can hold depends on the temperature and pressure. Franzen also deals with
the water vapor issue. What Will Happer should do is publish his detailed
calculations showing why so many people are wrong about water vapor. He has
not done this nor puplished anything in a scientific journal on global
warming (aside from one, non-detailed letter to the editor).

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:30:39 -0500, "Tom Gardner" ihfd@lhu wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire. But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

No, they aren't. They're getting their butts chewed by the AGWK
believers and are changing their ways to keep from losing it all.
They're finally starting to clean up their eco act, but it's gonna be
a long haul for them to catch up with the first world countries.

Didja read George Will's column today? Excellent excerpt below:

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

On Jan 14, 4:47*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:56:04 -0800, Rich Grise

wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:05*am, Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be sponsering...and
it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making this
crap up?

Read the news...and do your homework.

GFY. You're the one making the outrageous claim. Backing it up
is _your_ job.

PLEASE, just plonk him. You don't even have to post that you did it,
honest! *We're sick of seeing his posts.

--
A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- William S. Burroughs

Larry loves me...as do all closed minded conservatives.

TMT

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:42*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch. Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. So NOT just talk... Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing. Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect. They
aren't going along with the gag.

Stan

And where exactly is that mercury going thats in all those billons of CF
lightbulbs?

Gunner


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 04:21:47 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:42*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch. Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. So NOT just talk... Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing. Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect. They
aren't going along with the gag.

Stan

And where exactly is that mercury going thats in all those billons of CF
lightbulbs?

Around here, it's going into the landfills. CFLs cost a buck to
purchase but the locals want FOUR BUCKS to recycle one, AND you have
to drive to Portland (500mi r/t) to do so.

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

Tom Gardner wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire. But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!


Of course. Do you think they give a damn about quotas or treaties?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming

They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire.
But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell
I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

Hey, if they want to screw their citizens to provide affordable products
to us, why should I complain? ;-)

Of course, you have to be competent to operate a wire brush. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich

Larry Jaques wrote:

Didja read George Will's column today? Excellent excerpt below:

Do you have a link to the whole item? I've been googling for about 10
minutes so far, I didn't see it at the Orange County Register,
Townhall.com, or even Freedompolitics.com.

I even tried googling '+"George Will" +"Tragedies often spark plenty of
analysis"', and it led back here. )-;

Thanks!
Rich

John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be
sponsering...and it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making
this crap up?

Peter King.
Are you dumb, lazy, or do you just enjoy handing out homework
assignments?

You're the one making the outrageous claim, therefore it's your job
to back it up.

I didn't make a claim anywhere so I guess the answer is that you are just
stupid.

Sorry - I see it was "too many tools;" I shouldn't have said, _making_ the
outrageous claim; I should have said _corroborating_ the outrageous claim,
which pretty much puts you in the same bin.

(fron the character of his posts, I'm coming to believe that a hammer would
be too many tools for that clown.)

Thanks!
Rich

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:56:04 -0800, Rich Grise
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:05*am, Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be sponsering...and
it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making this
crap up?

Read the news...and do your homework.

GFY. You're the one making the outrageous claim. Backing it up
is _your_ job.

PLEASE, just plonk him. You don't even have to post that you did it,
honest! We're sick of seeing his posts.

Done.

Thanks!
Rich

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:56:04 -0800, Rich Grise
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:05 am, Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be
sponsering...and it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making this
crap up?

Read the news...and do your homework.

GFY. You're the one making the outrageous claim. Backing it up
is _your_ job.

PLEASE, just plonk him. You don't even have to post that you did it,
honest! We're sick of seeing his posts.

I thought I knew how that worked but on occasion somebody gets out of the
bin. Howdaydodat?

Some other fool who isn't in your filter file replies and voila!

But my header pane is expandable, and it's usually pretty easy to tell
when a couple of the trolls are having a ****fest. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

Pete Snell wrote:
On 1/14/2011 3:59 PM, Rich Grise wrote:

Ever been at a picnic or something and a cloud blows over and blocks
the sun? But The Church of Warmingism apparently doesn't believe in
clouds.

Sure have experienced that! But clouds aren't CO2........., and I've
noticed that visible light decreases as well when that cloud passes
over. And I don't know what the church of warmingism has to do with it,
I thought we were talking about CO2 blocking all IR, which is what had
been implied.

Well, clearly it doesn't, or life would never have evolved on Earth. The
warmingists claim that it _traps_ heat, which it couldn't do if the IR
didn't get here in the first place!

It _does_ trap a _certain amount_ of heat, but Earth has been
self-regulating, climate-wise, for billions of years. Water vapor and
methane also trap a significant amount of heat, but they're not in the
warmingist scriptures.

My cloud crack was just a jab at the idiocy of the warmingists. Sorry
for that if you're not one. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Jan 15, 11:22*am, Pete Snell wrote:
...
* *Opaque means nothing will pass. ...
* *Pete

Translucent might have been a better choice of word. The infrared
spectrophotometer I ran for a summer research grant only detected
radiation that passed straight through the sample, ignoring any that
was reflected, refracted or re-emitted in other directions. I
accounted for those with careful sample preparation and calibration
runs.

Absorption and reradiation at the same wavelength aren't the same as
reflection or scattering but the end result is similar, like the
diffuse light on an overcast day.

A classic optical experiment that depends on translucent material is
the measurement of relative light intensity with black paper
sandwiched between two blocks of paraffin wax. You set it between the
standard and unknown sources and slide it until both blocks appear
equally bright from the side. Then measure the distances to the
sources and use the inverse square law to calculate the ratio of their
intensities.

jsw

In article ,
"anorton" wrote:

"Lewis Hartswick" wrote in message
m...
Pete Snell wrote:
And any one who has worked in the infrared field for quite a few years
would tell you it not "bunk" but the truth.
...lew...

Interesting. Could you expand on that? If the co2 in the atmosphere
makes it opaque to infrared (that is; blocked entirely), how is it that
sunlight warms things?

Pete

If I have to explain that to you, I wonder just what you do
at that college in the physics dept.
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada

...lew...

Lew,

The witness I refered to is Will Happer. You can see his testimony he
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/re...testimony.html

The blatant falshood he bases his whole argument on is the following:
"Additional increments of CO2 will cause relatively less direct warming
because we already have so much CO2 in the atmosphere that it has blocked
most of the infrared radiation that it can"

It is true that over most (but not all) of the spectral band where CO2
absorbs in the atmosphere, it is nearly opaque. The issue is that, in the
infrared, opaque, absorbing objects re-emit radiation. For example, take a
piece of blackened foil. It is completely opaque to IR. Put a heat lamp
behind it and look at the other side with an IR camera. After a few secoonds
you will see it start to re-emit radiation. It slows down the radiative
transfer of heat, but it does not block it. In other words it is an
insulator. Add a second piece of foil, and the energy transfer will take
longer. In other words it is a better insulator.

Likewise, something similar happens with CO2 in the atmosphere. If you
consider each thin layer of the atmosphere, some portion of the radiation is
directly transmitted (travels quickly on to the next layer), some is
absorbed heats the layer and is then re-emitted in all directions. Adding
more CO2 increases the portion of absorbed energy in each layer and slows
the transfer of energy to the next. It matters very little that the entire
atmosphere has no direct transmission. The calculation integrating over
all of the layers to determine the net temperature increase at the surface
is presented in a very clear way by a retired proffessor from Iowa State,
Fritz Franzen, (this particular calculation starts on page 14).
http://www.hfranzen.org/GWPPT6.pdf

Happer also talks about the water vapor issue. OF COURSE this is a major
issue to be considered and it is one of the things that makes the problem
difficult. OF COURSE there is a lot of variability in water vapor, its why
we have weather. On average though, the amount of water vapor the atmosphere
can hold depends on the temperature and pressure. Franzen also deals with
the water vapor issue. What Will Happer should do is publish his detailed
calculations showing why so many people are wrong about water vapor. He has
not done this nor puplished anything in a scientific journal on global
warming (aside from one, non-detailed letter to the editor).

This is far more complex than needed to understand the greenhouse effect.

Basically, sunlight peaks in the visible, where the atmosphere is
largely transparent: The power density of sunlight is about 1300 watts
per square meter outside of the atmosphere, and about 1000 watts per
square meter at the surface, the 300 watts/meter2 being absorbed or
reflected on the way to the surface (ignoring clouds). The atmosphere is
somewhat heated in the process, but more importantly the 1000 w/m2 that
arrives at the surface heats the planet to an average of 290 degrees
Kelvin, so the planet radiates long-wave infrared light back into space.
Water vapor, methane, and carbon dioxide absorb this longwave IR in
proportion to their concentrations, thus trapping a part of the longwave
energy, thus heating the globe bay about 33 degrees centigrade from what
it would be absent an atmosphere. The presence of absorption bands
changes the numbers a bit, but does not change the general mechanism, or
the fact that the earth would be an iceball without the greenhouse
effect.

This process is largely independent of humans: we are arguing about a
few degrees above that 33 degrees. The argument is about the size of
"largely", how much is caused by natural variation of one kind or
another, and what if anything can be done to control the increase, if
indeed there is an economically significant increase.

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 07:23:27 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Didja read George Will's column today? Excellent excerpt below:

Do you have a link to the whole item? I've been googling for about 10
minutes so far, I didn't see it at the Orange County Register,
Townhall.com, or even Freedompolitics.com.

I even tried googling '+"George Will" +"Tragedies often spark plenty of
analysis"', and it led back here. )-;

I'll give you the link if you'll promise to stop replying to trolls
here on RCM. Promise? Good.

It appears that our paper renamed it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011003685.html

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

On Jan 15, 1:55*pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
...thus heating the globe bay about 33 degrees centigrade from what
it would be absent an atmosphere. *...
Joe Gwinn

Good summary. Physics and chemistry in general are very difficult to
explain to non-scientists.

jsw

In article , Pete Snell wrote:

On 1/15/2011 12:44 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jan 15, 11:22 am, Pete wrote:
...
Opaque means nothing will pass. ...
Pete

Translucent might have been a better choice of word. The infrared
spectrophotometer I ran for a summer research grant only detected
radiation that passed straight through the sample, ignoring any that
was reflected, refracted or re-emitted in other directions. I
accounted for those with careful sample preparation and calibration
runs.

Absorption and reradiation at the same wavelength aren't the same as
reflection or scattering but the end result is similar, like the
diffuse light on an overcast day.

Yes, translucent would have been a better term, but even that
distorts what really happens. It's a difficult effect to sum up in one
word. ;-)


A classic optical experiment that depends on translucent material is
the measurement of relative light intensity with black paper
sandwiched between two blocks of paraffin wax. You set it between the
standard and unknown sources and slide it until both blocks appear
equally bright from the side. Then measure the distances to the
sources and use the inverse square law to calculate the ratio of their
intensities.


Neat! I'll have to put that on my 'demos to build list' Optical
pyrometers work on a similar idea, comparing intensities of particular
wavelengths, and working out the temperature based on the observed ratios.

The paraffin wax blocks experiment is probably based on the Bunsen
Photometer, which is sufficiently cheap to be used in a student lab.

For instance: http://users.snip.net/~veraandscience/Light/Bunsen_P.html

Joe Gwinn

"Tom Gardner" ihfd@lhu wrote in message
...

"Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I
can buy the uncut wire. But, the Chinese
government supports their businesses. 90% of
the stuff I sell I didn't make 10 years ago.
And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is
laughing their asses off about GW!

Those small 'toothbrush' stainless steel brushes
the chinese
are selling are total garbage! Even the ones made
in Mexico
are a quantum leap ahead of the chinacrap ones. I
say the
chinacrap brushes are FDA certified safe for
unsupervised
use by young children! heh heh ... ;)) phil k.

"Rich Grise" wrote in
message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:

Didja read George Will's column today?
Excellent excerpt below:

Do you have a link to the whole item? I've been
googling for about 10
minutes so far, I didn't see it at the Orange
County Register,
Townhall.com, or even Freedompolitics.com.

I even tried googling '+"George Will"
+"Tragedies often spark plenty of
analysis"', and it led back here. )-;

Thanks!
Rich


http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will011111.php3

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:56:04 -0800, Rich Grise
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:05 am, Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be
sponsering...and it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making this
crap up?

Read the news...and do your homework.

GFY. You're the one making the outrageous claim. Backing it up
is _your_ job.

PLEASE, just plonk him. You don't even have to post that you did it,
honest! We're sick of seeing his posts.

I thought I knew how that worked but on occasion somebody gets out of the
bin. Howdaydodat?

Some other fool who isn't in your filter file replies and voila!

But my header pane is expandable, and it's usually pretty easy to tell
when a couple of the trolls are having a ****fest. :-)

Cheers!
Rich



I admittedly get sucked into an occasional poopile. Shame on ME! I wish I
was strong like Larry, he's my hero! ...and he's a lesbian too!

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:09:11 -0500, "Tom Gardner" gertk@lhu wrote:


"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:56:04 -0800, Rich Grise
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:05 am, Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be
sponsering...and it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making this
crap up?

Read the news...and do your homework.

GFY. You're the one making the outrageous claim. Backing it up
is _your_ job.

PLEASE, just plonk him. You don't even have to post that you did it,
honest! We're sick of seeing his posts.

I thought I knew how that worked but on occasion somebody gets out of the
bin. Howdaydodat?

Some other fool who isn't in your filter file replies and voila!

But my header pane is expandable, and it's usually pretty easy to tell
when a couple of the trolls are having a ****fest. :-)

I admittedly get sucked into an occasional poopile. Shame on ME! I wish I
was strong like Larry, he's my hero! ...and he's a lesbian too!

Thanks for bringing me screaming out of the closet, you bitch.
But you're right. I love women.

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming

They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire.
But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I
sell
I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

Hey, if they want to screw their citizens to provide affordable products
to us, why should I complain? ;-)

Of course, you have to be competent to operate a wire brush. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich


You would be AMAZED! Most people are NOT competent.

On 1/14/2011 5:02 AM, wrote:
On Jan 14, 2:09 am, wrote:

You have to pick a side.

Or simply it's better to be
prepared for the worst than have it hit us at the worst possible moment.

Hawke

I think it is too early to pick a side. There is a lot a research
going on, but as far as I can tell no one has figured out a model that
tells how much of the change is anthropogenic and how much is caused
by other causes. I pay a lot of attention to John Christy at the U of
Ala. at Huntsville. He has done a lot to measure the global
temperature using satellites. And has pointed out the many problems
with using weather stations. But he is a realist. He agrees that
2010 was a hot year, just as hot as 1998 by his data.

We are kind of between a rock and a hard place as far a doing
anything. Alternate energy sources are still not economical. And if
we decided to act now, it would be many years before we could replace
the current sources of energy. So taking a few more years to
determine exactly what the causes are is not a bad idea.

Meanwhile if we have to do something, maybe it should be to help the
Chinese put out the underground coal fires. They consume twenty
million tons of coal a year. A major source of CO2 that produces no
benefits. We could practice on some of the underground coal fires in
the US.

Dan

I think our only hope is some kind of unexpected breakthrough in energy
that will allow us to transition away from fossil fuels. Wind and solar
are great but we all know the sun doesn't shine all the time and neither
does the wind blow. But if we had a breakthrough in algae or something
completely unexpected it would solve the problems.

The way I see it now is that it's a race between us destroying the
planet by overheating it or finding some alternative energy source that
would prevent that from happening. When you look at how India and China
are growing and how much more energy they are going to need plus all of
our future needs you can't help but notice that it would take a huge
jump in fossil fuel consumption to allow it.

We are probably overheating the planet right now with the level of
burning we're doing. If we increased that to keep up with much higher
energy demand it would accelerate all the negative outcomes that are
predicted. So we either find something to take the place of fossil fuels
or we screw ourselves. The question is which comes first. I hope I'm
dead if we don't find an alternative in time because things are going to
get bad, real bad, if we raise the planet's temperature too much.

Hawke

"Phil Kangas" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" ihfd@lhu wrote in message
...

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire.
But, the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff
I sell I didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing
new products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses
off about GW!

Those small 'toothbrush' stainless steel brushes the chinese
are selling are total garbage! Even the ones made in Mexico
are a quantum leap ahead of the chinacrap ones. I say the
chinacrap brushes are FDA certified safe for unsupervised
use by young children! heh heh ... ;)) phil k.



There are four Chinese manufacturers of those 3x7 row SS "toothbrushes".
One of them really does make a good product, the other three make exactly
what they are contracted to make. The Chinese make what ever the customer
wants, often the customer wants crap.

John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Didja read George Will's column today? Excellent excerpt below:

Do you have a link to the whole item? I've been googling for about 10
minutes so far, I didn't see it at the Orange County Register,
Townhall.com, or even Freedompolitics.com.

I even tried googling '+"George Will" +"Tragedies often spark plenty
of analysis"', and it led back here. )-;

You'd have had an easier time if Larry had provided the proper info. Will
writes for the Washington Post.
Personally, I think your "Googler" is broken.
The charlatans' response to the Tucson tragedy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011003685.html

Well, whatever's wrong with my googler, thanks for this. :-)

George Will for President! ;-)
Thomas Sowell for Veep, and Walter Williams for Secretary of State!

Cheers!
Rich

Larry Jaques wrote:

I'll give you the link if you'll promise to stop replying to trolls
here on RCM. Promise? Good.

Oh, gawrsh, Michael T. is just so EASY to trollfeed. But with him, it seems
to be a personal thing - he keeps on saying how he's plonking me, but keeps
dogging me. But I've already filtered TMT.

Actually, John L. is a much better baiter than I am. Or at least, more
dedicated. I usually get tired of it before too long, and I'm rather proud
of being trainable. ;-)

Thanks!
Rich

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in
message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:

Didja read George Will's column today?
Excellent excerpt below:

Do you have a link to the whole item? I've been
googling for about 10
minutes so far, I didn't see it at the Orange
County Register,
Townhall.com, or even Freedompolitics.com.

I even tried googling '+"George Will"
+"Tragedies often spark plenty of
analysis"', and it led back here. )-;

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will011111.php3

Thanks again!
Rich

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Phil Kangas" wrote in message
"Tom Gardner" ihfd@lhu wrote in message
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming

They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire.
But, the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff
I sell I didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly
producing
new products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses
off about GW!

Those small 'toothbrush' stainless steel brushes the chinese
are selling are total garbage! Even the ones made in Mexico
are a quantum leap ahead of the chinacrap ones. I say the
chinacrap brushes are FDA certified safe for unsupervised
use by young children! heh heh ... ;)) phil k.

There are four Chinese manufacturers of those 3x7 row SS "toothbrushes".
One of them really does make a good product, the other three make exactly
what they are contracted to make. The Chinese make what ever the customer
wants, often the customer wants crap.

Probably more likely the customer wants cheap, and can't tell crap from a
hole in the ground

But you already knew that; I should shut up.

Thanks,
Rich

John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be
sponsering...and it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making
this crap up?

Peter King.
Are you dumb, lazy, or do you just enjoy handing out homework
assignments?

You're the one making the outrageous claim, therefore it's your job
to back it up.

I didn't make a claim anywhere so I guess the answer is that you are
just stupid.

Sorry - I see it was "too many tools;" I shouldn't have said,
_making_ the outrageous claim; I should have said _corroborating_ the
outrageous claim, which pretty much puts you in the same bin.

You asked for info and got it. That information took me a bout half a
minute to find, hence my comment.
What you were hoping was "made up crap" in fact, it wasn't.

Sorry, I've finally figured out it was that "Too Many Tools" troll who made
the claim, but I guess my question is, howcome neither he nor you said, "A
prominent Republican, Peter King, ..." but just "Some Repbulican ..."?

Intentional evasion? It took me three posts to finally extract the relevant
information. Why is that?

Or are you another one of the trolls that the other guys want me to stop
feeding?

Thanks,
Rich

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:56:04 -0800, Rich Grise
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:05 am, Rich Grise wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

You forgot the new gun law that a REPUBLICAN will be
sponsering...and it will become law.

Does this alleged Republican have a name, or are you just making
this crap up?

Read the news...and do your homework.

GFY. You're the one making the outrageous claim. Backing it up
is _your_ job.

PLEASE, just plonk him. You don't even have to post that you did it,
honest! We're sick of seeing his posts.

I thought I knew how that worked but on occasion somebody gets out of
the
bin. Howdaydodat?

Some other fool who isn't in your filter file replies and voila!

But my header pane is expandable, and it's usually pretty easy to tell
when a couple of the trolls are having a ****fest. :-)

I admittedly get sucked into an occasional poopile. Shame on ME! I wish
I
was strong like Larry, he's my hero! ...and he's a lesbian too!

Well, back during the Age of Aquarius, I found that my inner female is a
lesbian.

Somehow I find this very comforting. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Pete Snell wrote:
On 1/14/2011 3:59 PM, Rich Grise wrote:

Ever been at a picnic or something and a cloud blows over and blocks
the sun? But The Church of Warmingism apparently doesn't believe in
clouds.

Sure have experienced that! But clouds aren't CO2........., and I've
noticed that visible light decreases as well when that cloud passes
over. And I don't know what the church of warmingism has to do with it,
I thought we were talking about CO2 blocking all IR, which is what had
been implied.

Well, yeah, but if it blocks IR, then how could it be responsible for
warming, which is what the warmingists claim? Wouldn't it keep us cool?

That's all I was saying.

Thanks,
Rich

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Glass keeps a greenhouse warm because glass passes the largely visible-
light energy from the sun but blocks infrared re-radiation from
within.

And it's kind of an impediment to convective cooling.

Cheers!
Rich

Pete Snell wrote:
And you can also see how
important ozone is to keep us from frying in UV.

Gack! Ozone-hole-ism again already?

Ozone is the RESULT of UV being "blocked" by O2. A UV photon dissociates an
O2 molecule into two O atoms, which grab onto the nearest molecule, like
O2, which PRODUCES O3.

O3 isn't what "blocks UV" - O3 is the result of the UV being blocked by
plain ol' ordinary everyday oxygen.

But the teaching of actual science, or practically any facts at all,
went out the window when the unions took over the schools and turned
them into propaganda mills that teach nothing but "Self-Esteem" -
"Duh, I dunno how to add two and two, but I feel real good about myself,
yup, yup, yup, yup!"

Thanks,
Rich

On Jan 16, 2:07*am, Rich Grise wrote:


Well, yeah, but if it blocks IR, then how could it be responsible for
warming, which is what the warmingists claim? Wouldn't it keep us cool?

That's all I was saying.

Thanks,
Rich

The CO2 does block IR. However most of the energy from the son in not
IR. So most of the energy zips right thru the atmosphere and hits the
earth itself. This heats the earth up and it re-radiates the energy
as IR. This IR is blocked by the CO2 from radiating into space.

Try looking up " black body radiation " on the web.

If this does not seem clear to you, let me know and I will try to come
up with a explanation which is more intuitive.

Dan

Jim Wilkins wrote:
Absorption and reradiation at the same wavelength

Very interesting one of those 100 percent efficient
processes. :-)
...lew...

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Physics and chemistry in general are very difficult to
explain to non-scientists.

jsw
I would put a lot closer to "impossible". :-)
...lew...

On Jan 16, 10:47*am, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:

*Physics and chemistry in general are very difficult to
explain to non-scientists.

jsw

I would put a lot closer to "impossible". :-)
* * ...lew...

I'm still trying to learn clear and concise technical writing. Should
I give up?

jsw

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 22:38:12 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

John R. Carroll wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Didja read George Will's column today? Excellent excerpt below:

Do you have a link to the whole item? I've been googling for about 10
minutes so far, I didn't see it at the Orange County Register,
Townhall.com, or even Freedompolitics.com.

I even tried googling '+"George Will" +"Tragedies often spark plenty
of analysis"', and it led back here. )-;

You'd have had an easier time if Larry had provided the proper info. Will
writes for the Washington Post.
Personally, I think your "Googler" is broken.
The charlatans' response to the Tucson tragedy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011003685.html

Well, whatever's wrong with my googler, thanks for this. :-)

George Will for President! ;-)
Thomas Sowell for Veep, and Walter Williams for Secretary of State!

Sure, I'd sign the ticket listed above. I don't always agree with Will
but do so much more than most columnists and brilliant guys.

I would have happily voted for Will or Sowell for President. Don't
know much about Walter (E?) Williams, but will both check him out and
keep an eye on him as a Libertarian for the future. (I like and
respect Ron Paul but wouldn't have wanted him for President. I think
he'd have been eaten alive at that level in D.C.)

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 22:44:07 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

I'll give you the link if you'll promise to stop replying to trolls
here on RCM. Promise? Good.

Oh, gawrsh, Michael T. is just so EASY to trollfeed.

Please, you're being suckered. Don't you see that? Just ignore all of
them, for all our sakes.

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"