http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

I probably should not bite at this but here goes:

This video talks about all the other anti AGW climate scientists that are
ignored. There are about 12 people who publish papers in peer-reviewed
journals that regularly question and criticize bits and pieces of other's
work in global warming. This is a good and heathy thing. Their criticisms
are answered in other papers and back and forth and so on. None have come
close to disproving AGW while there are THOUSANDS of papers supporting it.
The criticisms of certain research get distributed in the anti-AGW
propaganda. The responses do not.

Supposedly there is this vast conspiracy of scientists to promote AGW to get
funding. Have you ever considered that the coal and oil companies (and Saudi
Arabia who own most of Fox news)are already spending on lobbyists, think
tanks, and PR firms to try to promote a FUD (Fear Uncertianty Doubt)
marketing campaign against AGW. How much would they pay for some really
meaty, VALID research disproving AGW once and for all?

The only real scientist to testify in congress against AGW was a chemical
spectroscopist who claimed that since the atmosphere was already opaque in
the infrared due to CO2 that the effect was already as large as it could be
and more CO2 could not increase global warming (he never bothered to submit
this thesis for publication). Any undergraduate physics major will tell
(should be able to tell) you why that conclusion is bunk.

There is a real parallel here with what happened with tobacco research, only
in this case the stakes are much larger. Doctors knew since at least the
1930s that smoking was harmful and addictive. Yet even in 1994 the tobacco
CEOs testified that nicotine was not addictive. Today, some of the very same
PR firms that claimed smoking is not harmful are being used to influence
your opinion on AGW.

On Jan 13, 6:12*pm, "anorton"
wrote:
...
The only real scientist to testify in congress against AGW was a chemical
spectroscopist who claimed *that since the atmosphere was already opaque in
the infrared due to CO2 that the effect was already as large as it could be
and more CO2 could not increase global warming (he never bothered to submit
this thesis for publication). *Any undergraduate physics major will tell
(should be able to tell) you why that conclusion is bunk.
...


http://org.ntnu.no/solarcells/pages/Chap.2.php?part=1

On Jan 13, 5:12*pm, "anorton"
wrote:
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

I probably should not bite at this but here goes:

This video talks about all the other anti AGW climate scientists that are
ignored. *There are about 12 people who publish papers in peer-reviewed
journals that regularly question and criticize bits and pieces of other's
work in global warming. *This is a good and heathy thing. Their criticisms
are answered in other papers and back and forth and so on. *None have come
close to disproving AGW while there are THOUSANDS of papers supporting it..
The criticisms of certain research get distributed in the anti-AGW
propaganda. The responses do not.

Supposedly there is this vast conspiracy of scientists to promote AGW to get
funding. Have you ever considered that the coal and oil companies (and Saudi
Arabia who own most of Fox news)are already spending on lobbyists, think
tanks, and PR firms to try to promote a FUD (Fear Uncertianty Doubt)
marketing campaign against AGW. How much would they pay for some really
meaty, VALID research disproving AGW once and for all?

The only real scientist to testify in congress against AGW was a chemical
spectroscopist who claimed *that since the atmosphere was already opaque in
the infrared due to CO2 that the effect was already as large as it could be
and more CO2 could not increase global warming (he never bothered to submit
this thesis for publication). *Any undergraduate physics major will tell
(should be able to tell) you why that conclusion is bunk.

There is a real parallel here with what happened with tobacco research, only
in this case the stakes are much larger. *Doctors knew since at least the
1930s that smoking was harmful and addictive. Yet even in 1994 the tobacco
CEOs testified that nicotine was not addictive. Today, some of the very same
PR firms that claimed smoking is not harmful are being used to influence
your opinion on AGW.

Good post.

anorton wrote:
The only real scientist to testify in congress against AGW was a
chemical spectroscopist who claimed that since the atmosphere was
already opaque in the infrared due to CO2 that the effect was already as
large as it could be and more CO2 could not increase global warming (he
never bothered to submit this thesis for publication). Any
undergraduate physics major will tell (should be able to tell) you why
that conclusion is bunk.
And any one who has worked in the infrared field for quite a few years
would tell you it not "bunk" but the truth.
...lew...

anorton wrote:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

I probably should not bite at this but here goes:

Nah, free speech and all that.
snip
None have come
close to disproving AGW while there are THOUSANDS of papers supporting it.

Well, for one thing, it's impossible to prove nonexistence. And there are
MILLIONS of religious zealots driven by faith, which also can't be
disproved.

The problem is, warmingism isn't science, because it's impossible to refute
any assertion - there's no way to test the hypothesis.

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:


But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.


As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

On Jan 14, 10:42*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch. Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. So NOT just talk... Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing. Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect. They
aren't going along with the gag.

Stan

wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:42 am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch.

I wasn't aware of any incandescent light ban in the USA.
They sell incandescent where I live.

And anyway even if some day there is a ban,
doesn't the replacement lamps require
as much or more manufacturing input?

How does the light bulbs thing connect to the claim that
"warmingist agenda are already driving us into bankruptcy"



Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. So NOT just talk...

Pending means it is just talk.
You have failed to make any connection
between this talk and your claim
that it is " already driving us into bankruptcy"



Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing.

Blah Blah Blah
It's all just talk.
How is this talk about what may happen
"already driving us into bankruptcy"?


Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect.

India and China have regulations to save energy.
The USA has essentially none.
It looks to me like the warmingest agenda
is working in their favor because
India and China are the ones embracing it.


They
aren't going along with the gag.

Stan

On Jan 14, 1:10*pm, wrote:
On Jan 14, 10:42*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch. *Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. *So NOT just talk... *Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing. *Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect. *They
aren't going along with the gag.

Stan

We are talking global warming...not cheap labor.

Work for a dollar a day like your Republican handlers want you to and
the jobs would stay here.

TMT

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:42*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch.

Yeah, Republicans have always been the go-to people for
environmentalism, haven't they? http://tinyurl.com/6go2jja REPs
tried to save 'em, but I think everyone agrees that reduced
electricity use is a good thing. Cheaper for the user, and it can
reduce oil importation. Shrub signed it after the DEMs wrote and
pushed the ban through. The originator didn't sign the final bill!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_...ty_Act_of_2007

Do you mean to tell me that things like incandescent light bulbs were
still made here in the USA? That amazes me, given the cost of union
labor + benefits.


Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. So NOT just talk... Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing. Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect. They
aren't going along with the gag.

Things aren't looking up, that's for sure. LED replacements are still
20 (minimum) to 100 times more expensive for the same number of
lumens.


--
A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
-- William S. Burroughs

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:42*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

As far as I know the global warming agenda thus far consists of nothing
but talk and vague projections into the fut6ure. How does talking about
global warming cause bankruptcy?

Tell that to the guys that lost their jobs at the last GE lamp plant
last year because of the incandescent lamp ban, THAT was definitely on
Bush's watch. Crap and Trade is pending here, already a fact in
Europe. So NOT just talk... Billions and potentially trillions of
bucks on the line, MAJOR cost increases in manufacturing. Anything
that needs more than just sun's heat to make is probably going to be
shuffled off to India or China if the proposed regs take effect. They
aren't going along with the gag.

Stan

And where exactly is that mercury going thats in all those billons of CF
lightbulbs?

Gunner


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On Jan 14, 9:09*am, Rich Grise wrote:
anorton wrote:

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

I probably should not bite at this but here goes:

Nah, free speech and all that.
snip

*None have come
close to disproving AGW while there are THOUSANDS of papers supporting it.

Well, for one thing, it's impossible to prove nonexistence. And there are
MILLIONS of religious zealots driven by faith, which also can't be
disproved.

The problem is, warmingism isn't science, because it's impossible to refute
any assertion - there's no way to test the hypothesis.

But one thing IS known - the costs of imposing the warmingist agenda are
already driving us into bankruptcy.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Or provide us new business opportunities...like progressive companies
have recognized and are pursuing.

Change or be left behind.

TMT

On Jan 13, 5:12*pm, "anorton"
wrote:
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

I probably should not bite at this but here goes:

This video talks about all the other anti AGW climate scientists that are
ignored. *There are about 12 people who publish papers in peer-reviewed
journals that regularly question and criticize bits and pieces of other's
work in global warming. *This is a good and heathy thing. Their criticisms
are answered in other papers and back and forth and so on. *None have come
close to disproving AGW while there are THOUSANDS of papers supporting it..
The criticisms of certain research get distributed in the anti-AGW
propaganda. The responses do not.

Supposedly there is this vast conspiracy of scientists to promote AGW to get
funding. Have you ever considered that the coal and oil companies (and Saudi
Arabia who own most of Fox news)are already spending on lobbyists, think
tanks, and PR firms to try to promote a FUD (Fear Uncertianty Doubt)
marketing campaign against AGW. How much would they pay for some really
meaty, VALID research disproving AGW once and for all?

The only real scientist to testify in congress against AGW was a chemical
spectroscopist who claimed *that since the atmosphere was already opaque in
the infrared due to CO2 that the effect was already as large as it could be
and more CO2 could not increase global warming (he never bothered to submit
this thesis for publication). *Any undergraduate physics major will tell
(should be able to tell) you why that conclusion is bunk.

There is a real parallel here with what happened with tobacco research, only
in this case the stakes are much larger. *Doctors knew since at least the
1930s that smoking was harmful and addictive. Yet even in 1994 the tobacco
CEOs testified that nicotine was not addictive. Today, some of the very same
PR firms that claimed smoking is not harmful are being used to influence
your opinion on AGW.

Again...good post.

Also noting the extreme flooding/snow we are now seeing worldwide, I
expect to see some serious flooding in the United States this year.

TMT

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

The "Scientific Method" has truly been replaced by the "Political Method"!

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:20:26 -0500, "Tom Gardner" ihbfd@lhu wrote:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

The "Scientific Method" has truly been replaced by the "Political Method"!

I love the AGWK True Believers. They're quite humorous.

Catastrophe: Warmer climate
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Cooler climate
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Drought
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Excess rains
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Large number of hurricanes/tornadoes
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Small number of hurricanes/tornadoes
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Ice age coming
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Melting glaciers
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Mass bird kills
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Mass fish kills
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Increase in pregancies
Cause: Global Warming

Crom, what'll they think of next to blame on AGWK, Chicago gun crime?

--
A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
-- William S. Burroughs

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:20:26 -0500, "Tom Gardner" ihbfd@lhu wrote:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

The "Scientific Method" has truly been replaced by the "Political Method"!

I love the AGWK True Believers. They're quite humorous.

Catastrophe: Warmer climate
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Cooler climate
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Drought
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Excess rains
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Large number of hurricanes/tornadoes
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Small number of hurricanes/tornadoes
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Ice age coming
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Melting glaciers
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Mass bird kills
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Mass fish kills
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Increase in pregancies
Cause: Global Warming

Crom, what'll they think of next to blame on AGWK, Chicago gun crime?

--
A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
-- William S. Burroughs

I'm ashamed I didn't think of it! But then again, I do have SOME morals.
So, what do you think the leftists will try next? I did notice that they
had a bunch of gun related bills just waiting for a good murder spree (even
if it was by a leftist). It make me wonder if the leftists arranged it all.
They get rid of a moderate Blue Dog and pave the way for "A Good Crisis NOT
Going To Waste" legislation that benefits them greatly. And, they can blame
their enemies! A leftist win-win! We know that the useless eater liberal
'tards will gladly do their masters' bidding. Is this an example of their
strategy? Hmmmm.

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:20:26 -0500, "Tom Gardner" ihbfd@lhu wrote:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s

The "Scientific Method" has truly been replaced by the "Political Method"!

I love the AGWK True Believers. They're quite humorous.

Catastrophe: Warmer climate
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Cooler climate
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Drought
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Excess rains
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Large number of hurricanes/tornadoes
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Small number of hurricanes/tornadoes
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Ice age coming
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Melting glaciers
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Mass bird kills
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Mass fish kills
Cause: Global Warming

Catastrophe: Increase in pregancies
Cause: Global Warming


Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire. But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:30:39 -0500, "Tom Gardner" ihfd@lhu wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire. But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

No, they aren't. They're getting their butts chewed by the AGWK
believers and are changing their ways to keep from losing it all.
They're finally starting to clean up their eco act, but it's gonna be
a long haul for them to catch up with the first world countries.

Didja read George Will's column today? Excellent excerpt below:

--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"

Tom Gardner wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire. But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!


Of course. Do you think they give a damn about quotas or treaties?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming

They import and sell a product cheaper than I can buy the uncut wire.
But,
the Chinese government supports their businesses. 90% of the stuff I sell
I
didn't make 10 years ago. And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is laughing their asses off
about GW!

Hey, if they want to screw their citizens to provide affordable products
to us, why should I complain? ;-)

Of course, you have to be competent to operate a wire brush. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich

"Tom Gardner" ihfd@lhu wrote in message
...

"Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in message
...

Catastrophe: Chinese wire brushes
Cause: Global Warming


They import and sell a product cheaper than I
can buy the uncut wire. But, the Chinese
government supports their businesses. 90% of
the stuff I sell I didn't make 10 years ago.
And, I have to be constantly producing new
products to stay ahead of them. I bet China is
laughing their asses off about GW!

Those small 'toothbrush' stainless steel brushes
the chinese
are selling are total garbage! Even the ones made
in Mexico
are a quantum leap ahead of the chinacrap ones. I
say the
chinacrap brushes are FDA certified safe for
unsupervised
use by young children! heh heh ... ;)) phil k.