The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

One cheap and easy thing to try is spraying the drill bits with a
moly-disulfide spray. One of the top coatings used in very fancy
multi-coated tools, specifically to prevent chips from sticking or welding
to the tool, is straight moly disulfide.

Since this is not a high-temperature application, any hardware spray would
be worth a try, including the ones that combine moly with Teflon. You might
try spraying it around the spots on the aluminum sheets where you're going
to drill, too. It may help keep them from sticking.

Good luck.

--
Ed Huntress

Normal drills work fine. Use diesel as a lube and make certain the drill is sharp.
Steve

"Doug White" wrote in message ...
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

You might want to try the wood bits with the spurs or regrind a regular
bit with the same configuration.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10613

And I REALLY like a punch for such things. $55 for punch, $80 for the
kit. I keep two of them in the lab with different punch sets loaded
http://www.mcmaster.com/#3461a22/=5lr067
http://www.mcmaster.com/#3461a11/=5lr0pp

Doug White wrote:
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

Doug White fired this volley in
:

I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes.

Doug, it would probably be a lot faster to punch those holes with something
like a Roper-Whitney bench-top punch. You can buy a Chinalloy version for
about $30. It should be able to handle four sheets at a time.

LLoyd

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:55:34 +0000, Doug White wrote:

The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum,
and wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to
fuse together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through
a stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I
end up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with
stringy chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing
this dry, with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I
have to keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the
blanks apart at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

Just nail through the @#$% metal?

--
www.wescottdesign.com

Doug White wrote:

The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44060
$19.95 Hand punch

or

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91510
$24.95 Deep throat hand punch

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93787
$9.95 Mounting base for heavy duty punch

I got the last two recently for $17.95 for the punch, and $1 for an
'open box' mounting base.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
. 3.70:

Doug White fired this volley in
:

I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I
end up welding the stack together at the holes.

Doug, it would probably be a lot faster to punch those holes with
something like a Roper-Whitney bench-top punch. You can buy a
Chinalloy version for about $30. It should be able to handle four
sheets at a time.

I have a Roper Whitney punch, and drilling is a LOT faster because I can
set up a much thicker stack and the drill bushings make locating the holes
effortless. Even with prying them apart, drilling is a win. The goal is
also to provide the Club with idiot proof tooling so I don't have to do
this in the future. The drill jig is something anyone with an electric
drill can use.

I found that McMaster Carr has split point parabolic drills in 3/32". I
can get them bright, black oxide or TiN. I suspect they will work better
than the plain point fast twist drills I have now. I found one source that
says black oxide is no good for aluminum, so I will probably try TiN. I
can try coating the drill with a spritz of lube as Ed Huntress suggested.
That will help keep the mess under control.

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
. 3.70:

Doug White fired this volley in
:

I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I
end up welding the stack together at the holes.

Doug, it would probably be a lot faster to punch those holes with
something like a Roper-Whitney bench-top punch. You can buy a
Chinalloy version for about $30. It should be able to handle four
sheets at a time.

I have a Roper Whitney punch, and drilling is a LOT faster because I can
set up a much thicker stack and the drill bushings make locating the holes
effortless. Even with prying them apart, drilling is a win. The goal is
also to provide the Club with idiot proof tooling so I don't have to do
this in the future. The drill jig is something anyone with an electric
drill can use.

I found that McMaster Carr has split point parabolic drills in 3/32". I
can get them bright, black oxide or TiN. I suspect they will work better
than the plain point fast twist drills I have now. I found one source
that
says black oxide is no good for aluminum, so I will probably try TiN. I
can try coating the drill with a spritz of lube as Ed Huntress suggested.
That will help keep the mess under control.

Doug White

The nice thing about the moly is that it dries. No mess. And it wipes off
easily.

--
Ed Huntress

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message

Just nail through the @#$% metal?

Roofers nail aluminum flashing all day with aluminum nails
and it certainly didn't take jigs, tooling, or much training to
get even the newest hires doing this.
Art

Try reducing the rpm of the drill. If that doesn't work, do it again. I've
this to be usually effective.

Hul

Doug White wrote:
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

Doug White wrote:
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames.


Can you just nail through the material?
RR

On Jan 30, 12:55*pm, Doug White wrote:
.... *The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. *Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. *I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. *Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. *The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

TiN coating (the gold-looking drill bits) is intended to keep aluminum
from sticking. There's also a lubricant wax available that you can
keep
by the drill press; a touch of the wax on a drill bit tip lubes the
next
deep hole you drill. Castrol "Stick wax" and LPS "Edge" are brands
in my old Enco catalog.

On Jan 30, 1:55*pm, Doug White wrote:
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. *The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of aluminum
nails. *Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. *I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. *Part of the process is to drill a stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. *The jig I made has two 3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. *Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. *It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. *I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. *I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. *To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. *It slows things down considerably if I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process. *

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. *They have a bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal drill bits. *

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the chips
sticking to the drill bit. *I'm wondering if there is anything else
special I should look for. *Split points might be helpful, but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. *I don't mind spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

It's not the bit, you'll get build up on just about anything when
drilling that stuff dry. Lots of stuff will work to keep the chips
from welding, some healthier than others to use. Tap lube made for
aluminum comes up top, runs through various oils, even milk!. Tap wax
will work, you can just jab the drill into an end as needed.

Best design for a publically-used target holder I've seen used pipes
stuck in the berm horizontally, end on to the shooters, each pair
spaced 2' or so and had Vs cut in facing sides to hold the cardboard
backers. They didn't get shot up, no richocet problem, you just had
to have cardboard cut to the right size. Used about 1 1/2" pipe.

Stan

"Artemus" wrote in -
september.org:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message

Just nail through the @#$% metal?

Roofers nail aluminum flashing all day with aluminum nails
and it certainly didn't take jigs, tooling, or much training to
get even the newest hires doing this.
Art

They are nailing small clips to the edge of a 1x3, and without the holes,
they make a mess of it. Don't ask me how, I don't know. I need to make
this completely idiot proof so I don't have to deal with it in the future.

Doug White

whit3rd wrote in news:6a853d70-1f49-4a9d-b8ff-
:

On Jan 30, 12:55*pm, Doug White wrote:
.... *The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of
aluminum
nails. *Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. *I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. *Part of the process is to drill a stack of
the
blanks to make holes for the nails. *The jig I made has two 3/32"
steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

TiN coating (the gold-looking drill bits) is intended to keep aluminum
from sticking. There's also a lubricant wax available that you can
keep
by the drill press; a touch of the wax on a drill bit tip lubes the
next
deep hole you drill. Castrol "Stick wax" and LPS "Edge" are brands
in my old Enco catalog.

The stick stuff is a good idea, but I think I'll start with TiN & see how
that goes. I can get split point TiN drills pretty cheap. These will
eventually get left at the range house, and the fewer pieces the better.
If I buy some stick lube, it will go walkabout in no time. The drill
bits are small enough that they should last a while.

Doug White

wrote in news:6c323785-aac6-457c-bbd7-
:

snip

It's not the bit, you'll get build up on just about anything when
drilling that stuff dry. Lots of stuff will work to keep the chips
from welding, some healthier than others to use. Tap lube made for
aluminum comes up top, runs through various oils, even milk!. Tap wax
will work, you can just jab the drill into an end as needed.

Best design for a publically-used target holder I've seen used pipes
stuck in the berm horizontally, end on to the shooters, each pair
spaced 2' or so and had Vs cut in facing sides to hold the cardboard
backers. They didn't get shot up, no richocet problem, you just had
to have cardboard cut to the right size. Used about 1 1/2" pipe.

Our range has 25 yard targets in front of 50 yard targets, and the 25
yard targets are on a turning system for matches. It's all a bit
complicated, but it's been working well for the 35 years I've shot there.

Doug White

"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
. 3.70:

Doug White fired this volley in
:

I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient,
I end up welding the stack together at the holes.

Doug, it would probably be a lot faster to punch those holes with
something like a Roper-Whitney bench-top punch. You can buy a
Chinalloy version for about $30. It should be able to handle four
sheets at a time.

I have a Roper Whitney punch, and drilling is a LOT faster because I
can set up a much thicker stack and the drill bushings make locating
the holes effortless. Even with prying them apart, drilling is a
win. The goal is also to provide the Club with idiot proof tooling
so I don't have to do this in the future. The drill jig is something
anyone with an electric drill can use.

I found that McMaster Carr has split point parabolic drills in 3/32".
I can get them bright, black oxide or TiN. I suspect they will work
better than the plain point fast twist drills I have now. I found
one source that
says black oxide is no good for aluminum, so I will probably try TiN.
I can try coating the drill with a spritz of lube as Ed Huntress
suggested. That will help keep the mess under control.

Doug White

The nice thing about the moly is that it dries. No mess. And it wipes
off easily.

I have a couple of options to try, but they are both greases that may be
a bit messier than what you suggest. I have a tube of mil spec moly
grease for torquing AR-15 barrel nuts, as well as some really high moly
content assembly grease. The tube of mil spec stuff will last a dozen
life times, and is cheaper, so if I go the moly route, I may start with
that. Is there a specific moly spray that you would recommend that
dries?

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
. 3.70:

Doug White fired this volley in
:

I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient,
I end up welding the stack together at the holes.

Doug, it would probably be a lot faster to punch those holes with
something like a Roper-Whitney bench-top punch. You can buy a
Chinalloy version for about $30. It should be able to handle four
sheets at a time.

I have a Roper Whitney punch, and drilling is a LOT faster because I
can set up a much thicker stack and the drill bushings make locating
the holes effortless. Even with prying them apart, drilling is a
win. The goal is also to provide the Club with idiot proof tooling
so I don't have to do this in the future. The drill jig is something
anyone with an electric drill can use.

I found that McMaster Carr has split point parabolic drills in 3/32".
I can get them bright, black oxide or TiN. I suspect they will work
better than the plain point fast twist drills I have now. I found
one source that
says black oxide is no good for aluminum, so I will probably try TiN.
I can try coating the drill with a spritz of lube as Ed Huntress
suggested. That will help keep the mess under control.

Doug White

The nice thing about the moly is that it dries. No mess. And it wipes
off easily.

I have a couple of options to try, but they are both greases that may be
a bit messier than what you suggest. I have a tube of mil spec moly
grease for torquing AR-15 barrel nuts, as well as some really high moly
content assembly grease. The tube of mil spec stuff will last a dozen
life times, and is cheaper, so if I go the moly route, I may start with
that. Is there a specific moly spray that you would recommend that
dries?

Doug White

Sorry, but I don't have a recommendation. I haven't had the industrial stuff
for a couple of decades, but it was great stuff.

There are several manufacturers. Here's one, for example:

http://www.thomasnet.com/catalognavi...=1&searchpos=3

You probably can find one at any good hardware store, although the ones I've
been are diluted with graphite or Teflon. Still, I don't think that would be
a problem drilling soft aluminum.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91510
Don't drill. Punch, instead.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Doug White" wrote in message
...
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold
cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames. The clips are made
from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair
of aluminum
nails. Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we
have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. I've made some
jigs to help
mass produce the clips. Part of the process is to drill a
stack of the
blanks to make holes for the nails. The jig I made has two
3/32" steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft
aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also
wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip
through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit
impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up
with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm
doing this dry,
with no cutting lube. It slows things down considerably if
I have to
keep peeling chips out of the drill flutes, and pry all the
blanks apart
at the end of the drilling process.

I started with some fast twist bits from McMaster Carr, on
the theory
that they would pull the chips out better. They have a
bright finish,
and I'm not convinced that they are any better than normal
drill bits.

Rumor has it that black oxide finished will help prevent the
chips
sticking to the drill bit. I'm wondering if there is
anything else
special I should look for. Split points might be helpful,
but I'm not
sure anyone bothers for drill bits this small.

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't mind
spending a few
bucks on fancy drill bits if it will speed up the process
considerably.

Thanks!

Doug White

No fair! I had that idea!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
message ...


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91510
$24.95 Deep throat hand punch

Sounds like a cordless drill, and zip screws are the answer.
Ask any heating and AC installer.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Randall Replogle" wrote in
message ...
Doug White wrote:
The shooting club I belong to uses aluminum clips to hold
cardboard
target backers to wooden target frames.


Can you just nail through the material?
RR

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:hk2ni4
:

Sounds like a cordless drill, and zip screws are the answer.
Ask any heating and AC installer.

Zip screws would probably strip out in the soft wood frames if folks
weren't careful (which they won't be). We use aluminum 3 penny nails so
they don't become dangerous projectiles if they get shot.

Doug White

Stormin Mormon wrote:

No fair! I had that idea!


Yeah, three hours after me.


BTW, I just bought the last three of these at my local store for
$1.97 each.

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=97867&CategoryName=&SubCateg oryName=

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


"Doug White" wrote in message
...
snip

I have a couple of options to try, but they are both greases that may
be a bit messier than what you suggest. I have a tube of mil spec
moly grease for torquing AR-15 barrel nuts, as well as some really
high moly content assembly grease. The tube of mil spec stuff will
last a dozen life times, and is cheaper, so if I go the moly route, I
may start with that. Is there a specific moly spray that you would
recommend that dries?

Doug White

Sorry, but I don't have a recommendation. I haven't had the industrial
stuff for a couple of decades, but it was great stuff.

There are several manufacturers. Here's one, for example:

http://www.thomasnet.com/catalognavi...&cov=NA&what=m
oly+disulfide+spray&heading=44960409&searchpos=3&c nurl=http%3A%2F%2Fant
iseize.thomasnet.com%2FCategory%2Fmoly-spray-trade-dry-film-lubricant&p
rodpos=1&searchpos=3

You probably can find one at any good hardware store, although the
ones I've been are diluted with graphite or Teflon. Still, I don't
think that would be a problem drilling soft aluminum.

McMaster Carr has Dow Molykote L-0501, but it isn't clear if it actually
has much moly in it. Molykote 321 sounds perfect, and McMaster carries
that as well as Dri-Slide, which is a similar product. Dri-Slide is
rated at twice the pressure of Molykote 321, and they also have a marine
grade spray that is rated three times higher than Dri-Slide (at about the
same price). I think a can of spray moly sounds like a good thing to
have around in general. I'm always buying something from McMaster, so
I'll toss in a can with the next order & give it a try.

Doug White.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 00:43:05 +0000, Doug White wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in -
september.org:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message

Just nail through the @#$% metal?

Roofers nail aluminum flashing all day with aluminum nails and it
certainly didn't take jigs, tooling, or much training to get even the
newest hires doing this. Art

They are nailing small clips to the edge of a 1x3, and without the
holes, they make a mess of it. Don't ask me how, I don't know. I need
to make this completely idiot proof so I don't have to deal with it in
the future.

Doug White

It seems to me (sitting here in my armchair, yards from my shop) that it
may be easier to make a jig to pre-punch the holes. I.e. hold the part,
locate the holes, let you pre-bash a nail or equivalent through them to
get 'em started.

I could see getting fancy and making something that punches all necessary
holes with one stroke of a lever, or something as crude as a few holes in
some angle, through which you run a nail and bash away.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

Tim Wescott wrote:

It seems to me (sitting here in my armchair, yards from my shop) that it
may be easier to make a jig to pre-punch the holes. I.e. hold the part,
locate the holes, let you pre-bash a nail or equivalent through them to
get 'em started.

I could see getting fancy and making something that punches all necessary
holes with one stroke of a lever, or something as crude as a few holes in
some angle, through which you run a nail and bash away.


If the aluminum is thin enough, you could modify a three hole paper
punch.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Doug, get some stick wax/lube it will help with the chips.

http://www.emisupply.com/catalog/wal...erm=WAL-53B303

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Doug White" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
. 3.70:

Doug White fired this volley in
:

I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit
impatient,
I end up welding the stack together at the holes.

Doug, it would probably be a lot faster to punch those holes
with
something like a Roper-Whitney bench-top punch. You can buy
a
Chinalloy version for about $30. It should be able to handle
four
sheets at a time.

I have a Roper Whitney punch, and drilling is a LOT faster
because I
can set up a much thicker stack and the drill bushings make
locating
the holes effortless. Even with prying them apart, drilling
is a
win. The goal is also to provide the Club with idiot proof
tooling
so I don't have to do this in the future. The drill jig is
something
anyone with an electric drill can use.

I found that McMaster Carr has split point parabolic drills in
3/32".
I can get them bright, black oxide or TiN. I suspect they
will work
better than the plain point fast twist drills I have now. I
found
one source that
says black oxide is no good for aluminum, so I will probably
try TiN.
I can try coating the drill with a spritz of lube as Ed
Huntress
suggested. That will help keep the mess under control.

Doug White

The nice thing about the moly is that it dries. No mess. And it
wipes
off easily.

I have a couple of options to try, but they are both greases
that may be
a bit messier than what you suggest. I have a tube of mil spec
moly
grease for torquing AR-15 barrel nuts, as well as some really
high moly
content assembly grease. The tube of mil spec stuff will last a
dozen
life times, and is cheaper, so if I go the moly route, I may
start with
that. Is there a specific moly spray that you would recommend
that
dries?

Doug White

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

whit3rd wrote in news:6a853d70-1f49-4a9d-b8ff-
:

On Jan 30, 12:55*pm, Doug White wrote:
.... *The clips are made from soft
aluminum roll flashing, and are held to the frames by a pair of
aluminum
nails. *Over time, the frames & clips get shot up, and we have to keep
building new frames & making more clips. *I've made some jigs to help
mass produce the clips. *Part of the process is to drill a stack of
the
blanks to make holes for the nails. *The jig I made has two 3/32"
steel
drill bushings for this purpose.

TiN coating (the gold-looking drill bits) is intended to keep aluminum
from sticking. There's also a lubricant wax available that you can
keep
by the drill press; a touch of the wax on a drill bit tip lubes the
next
deep hole you drill. Castrol "Stick wax" and LPS "Edge" are brands
in my old Enco catalog.

The stick stuff is a good idea, but I think I'll start with TiN & see how
that goes. I can get split point TiN drills pretty cheap. These will
eventually get left at the range house, and the fewer pieces the better.
If I buy some stick lube, it will go walkabout in no time. The drill
bits are small enough that they should last a while.

Drilling aluminum dry is going to be a problem regardless. A hand
squirter full of denatured alcohol used to wet the drill bit and hole
will help a lot, and there is no cleanup - the alcohol will simply
evaporate.

Joe Gwinn

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:


Tim Wescott wrote:

It seems to me (sitting here in my armchair, yards from my shop) that
it may be easier to make a jig to pre-punch the holes. I.e. hold the
part, locate the holes, let you pre-bash a nail or equivalent through
them to get 'em started.

I could see getting fancy and making something that punches all
necessary holes with one stroke of a lever, or something as crude as
a few holes in some angle, through which you run a nail and bash
away.


If the aluminum is thin enough, you could modify a three hole paper
punch.

The clips are small, only 2 1/2" tall, bent in an L shape. One side of
the L gets nailed to the sides of the frames, and the other is spaced
forward to hold the cardboard.

I've already built the drilling jig after hand punching several hundred
clips, and trust me, drilling is faster. I suppose I could have made a
gang punch using Roper Whitney punches & dies, but I've already invested
more time in this than I'd like. The drilling works OK, but if I can
spend an extra $1 on a TiN split point drill bit to make it better, that
would be money well spent. If a spritz of spray moly lube allows me to
drill 16 at once cleanly vs 8 or 10, that is a huge win.

Doug White

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:


Tim Wescott wrote:

It seems to me (sitting here in my armchair, yards from my shop) that
it may be easier to make a jig to pre-punch the holes. I.e. hold the
part, locate the holes, let you pre-bash a nail or equivalent through
them to get 'em started.

I could see getting fancy and making something that punches all
necessary holes with one stroke of a lever, or something as crude as
a few holes in some angle, through which you run a nail and bash
away.


If the aluminum is thin enough, you could modify a three hole paper
punch.

I'm using 14 mil thick roll flashing. I think I would still be stuck
doing only a couple at a time, vs 10 with a drill. A Roper Whitney punch
can handle 4 or 5 at once, but not 10. With the right drill & lube, I'm
hoping to get up to a dozen or more at once.

Doug White

"DanG" wrote in
:

Doug, get some stick wax/lube it will help with the chips.

http://www.emisupply.com/catalog/wal...ing-lubricant-
105oz-stick-p-2307.html?utm_source=googprod&utm_term=WAL-53B303

Thanks. I've got some for my bandsaw, I'll give it a try. At least it
isn't as messy as a liquid lube.

Doug White

Please tell me these clumsy types who can't handle a
cordless drill. They aren't allowed to own firearms?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..

Zip screws would probably strip out in the soft wood frames
if folks
weren't careful (which they won't be). We use aluminum 3
penny nails so
they don't become dangerous projectiles if they get shot.

Doug White

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:39:14 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

I found that McMaster Carr has split point parabolic drills in 3/32". I
can get them bright, black oxide or TiN. I suspect they will work better
than the plain point fast twist drills I have now. I found one source that
says black oxide is no good for aluminum, so I will probably try TiN. I
can try coating the drill with a spritz of lube as Ed Huntress suggested.
That will help keep the mess under control.

Doug White

Black oxide is good for ferous metals, aluminum likes to to stick to
it. go with the TiN. Also avoid coatings with Al in them, AlTiN or
TiAlN.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

"Doug White" wrote in message
...

The problem is the drilling. Roll flashing is typical soft aluminum, and
wants to stick to the drill & stick to itself. It also wants to fuse
together rather than cut. I'd like to just be able to zip through a
stack of 10 or more blanks, but if I'm in the least bit impatient, I end
up welding the stack together at the holes. I also end up with stringy
chips stuck in the drill flutes. To minimize mess, I'm doing this dry,
with no cutting lube.

Supposedly tin coated bits work a little better, but this really is a job
where liberal use of WD-40 and making a mess would help a lot.

My experience show you still get the problems you describe with tin bits if
you get them hot and are not using liberal amounts of lubricant.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Please tell me these clumsy types who can't handle a
cordless drill. They aren't allowed to own firearms?

The problem is that they can't handle a hammer. Not sure about a
drill...

Remember, if these guys were more more coordinated, they wouldn't shoot
up the target frames, which are 2' square. I have a pair of frames my
wife & I use that I built about 7 years ago. The hole in the center of
the cardboard from thousands of shots is only 4 or 5 inches in diameter,
and we mostly shoot at 50 yards. I'm thinking I should probably replace
the cardboard this year, but only because the area where you staple the
corners of the targets is getting soft.

One of my projects for when I retire is to offer free clinics to folks at
the club to try to reduce the damage. The problem is that the basic NRA
pistol course explains how to shoot, but the major focus is just on
safety. People get next to zero practice or coaching, and we always use
target pistols with decent triggers. They go out & buy a 9 mm or some
such with a 7 pound trigger pull (mandated by the state for "safety
reasons") & then look at the target instead of their sights and yank on
the trigger.

Doug White

On Jan 31, 12:47*am, Doug White wrote:

The stick stuff is a good idea, but I think I'll start with TiN & see how
that goes. *I can get split point TiN drills pretty cheap. *These will
eventually get left at the range house, and the fewer pieces the better. *
If I buy some stick lube, it will go walkabout in no time. *The drill
bits are small enough that they should last a while.

Doug White

You probably have figured out that most anything you put on the drill
bit will help and last until it is worn off. Silicon grease is one of
the harder things to get off surfaces that one is going to paint, so I
suspect it would be a winner here if it were in your shop.

But since part of the problem is not having the " fix " disappear, I
would try any kind of wax mixed with some medium weight oil in
container that is likely to leak if put in a pocket. A short wide
mouth glass jam jar would work. Candles, floor wax, stick lube
( removed from the cardboard tube ) would all work mixed with ATF, 30
weight oil, Chain saw bar oil, way oil, or bacon fat.

Dan