On Dec 4, 5:52*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
RBnDFW fired this volley in news:hfbcpv$8ud$1
@news.eternal-september.org:



If it's an Atlas 618, with Timken bearing headstock, it's worth having.
If it's the smaller AA lathe labeled Craftsman, they are interesting
toys, and a big step down from the Sherline.

I have a (true) Atlas 618 with Timken bearing headstock, but wearing the
Craftsman badge. *I bought it new the year (1971) before they *******ized
the machine with sleeve bearings, then soon ceased carrying the Atlas
goods at all, infavor of some blocky off-shore stuff.

LLoyd

This should help:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page4.html

I have the 109.21270, the one to avoid, though it isn't THAT bad. I
put a 1/2" Jacobs chuck on the spindle and use it to polish small
parts so I don't risk grit on the ways of my good lathe.

jsw

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , spaco
wrote:
I guess I'd ask what your budget is,

Six hundred, give or take.

how much room you have

Main limitation, actually, is the need to take it down a basement stairs.

and what you
want to do in the future. In my not-so-humble opinion, unless you do a
LOT of very small work where you need extremely high spindle speeds, I'd
get a 10 or 12 inch lathe with a 3 foot bed and quick change gear box,
at least.

Small work is all I plan to ever do -- doubtful I'll ever turn anything
large
enough to need a 10x36.

Far from being competent to give you advice, I am in the same club:

I have a Taig which I love and use more than I imagined I would. However, I
quickly discovered the limitations of its size. More and more I find myself
wanting to turn something just a bit bigger than what the Taig is capable
of. Shaving off thou's at a time wears thin (pardon the pun) rather quickly.
I went through the considerations of slowing the Taig down by various means,
employing risers etc. but in the end I came to the conclusion that you
cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I, too, looked at the 7X' and
decided that the increase in size would be of minimal benefit.

I think the advice to get 10" swing lathe is a good one. It is on my list,
probably in March, bar another surprise like Dubai etc.

Transport of a 400 lb beast is definitely an issue but as someone said I am
hoping to strip it down to essentials and move it into position bit by bit.

BTW Southbend are supposed to be getting back to lathe manufacturing. They
have been promising it for about a year but last time I looked at their web
site nothing was happening.

Do keep us posted how you solved your problem!

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

message sent -

if anyone wants to find me, my email is displayed on my web page,
www.wbnoble.com


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Bill Noble"
wrote:
that reminds me, a friend has one of the small Atlas mini-metal lathes -
that would be under the $400 you got your cool deal for - it's the
smallest
of the atlas lathes - it's not all that rigid compared to a clausing or
something, but you can lift it onto the bench and store it in the closet
(that's what I did when I had one) - if interested, contact me off the
list

Ummm... email to lid isn't going to work...

Yes, I'm interested -- how about you contact me at /doug/at/xxxx.

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 00:25:38 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
I need a lathe with a little larger capacity than the Sherline that I've
been
using for a while, but don't have very much of a budget for buying a
replacement. Several months' worth of patient scanning of local
advertising
has not panned out, so it's looking like I'll need to buy new. I'm
considering
the following, any of which would be large enough for my needs for the
forseeable futu

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=22082712
http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-...al-Lathe/G8688
http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-7X...ATHE,8176.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93212

Any of these that I should *not* be considering? Any others that I
*should*
be? Things to be aware of with any of the above? All advice is gratefully
appreciated. *Good* advice will be further appreciated with a cold bottle
of
homebrewed porter (if you can come to Indianapolis to get it). TIA...

I have one you can have for FREE! Just come and get it.

Ooh, ooh, me want! (It's all I have room for.)

--
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas
to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label
of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem
important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
-- Thomas J. Watson

On Dec 4, 8:54*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
BTW Southbend are supposed to be getting back to lathe manufacturing. They
have been promising it for about a year but last time I looked at their web
site nothing was happening.
....
Michael Koblic

Based on specs and price this looks good:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x...al-Lathe/G0602
Does anyone out there have one, or another dealer's equivalent?

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 4, 8:54 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
BTW Southbend are supposed to be getting back to lathe
manufacturing. They have been promising it for about a year but last
time I looked at their web site nothing was happening.
...
Michael Koblic

Based on specs and price this looks good:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x...al-Lathe/G0602
Does anyone out there have one, or another dealer's equivalent?


This the one I am after:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2227L

There is an extensive discussion of it he

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archiv...p/t-29399.html

Note the differences from the Grizzly item.

Here is a question:
Given a 2" round steel bar (12L14), "ideal" speed and feed, HSS cutter
freshly sharpened and a coolant/lubricant of your choice, what is the
maximum reasonable depth of roughing cut one can manage on such lathe? Say
reducing the 2" to 1" cylinder?

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On Dec 6, 12:01*am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 4, 8:54 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
BTW Southbend are supposed to be getting back to lathe
manufacturing. They have been promising it for about a year but last
time I looked at their web site nothing was happening.
...
Michael Koblic

Based on specs and price this looks good:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x...al-Lathe/G0602
Does anyone out there have one, or another dealer's equivalent?

This the one I am after:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2227L

There is an extensive discussion of it he

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archiv...p/t-29399.html

Note the differences from the Grizzly item.

Here is a question:
Given a 2" round steel bar (12L14), "ideal" speed and feed, HSS cutter
freshly sharpened and a coolant/lubricant of your choice, what is the
maximum reasonable depth of roughing cut one can manage on such lathe? Say
reducing the 2" to 1" cylinder?
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

I don't normally go in more than 0.050" per pass (0.1" off the
diameter) with whatever feed the lathe is comfortable with. The limit
is the tension of the flat leather belts, which I keep low enough to
slip without (usually) breaking a jammed tool.

On drill rod and stainless I reduce it to 0.025" per pass and speed up
the feed with the QC box. The time to remove a quantity of steel
doesn't change too much, tool point wear increases which would cost
more with inserts, with HSS it only costs grinding time, which doesn't
matter if you regrind before finishing anyway.

They are round numbers to make tracking the diameter reduction
easier.

The lathe can cut 0.1" deep, especially with considerable top rake on
the bit, but then it's more likely to dig in. That's a problem on an
old worn machine with tight and loose places in the slides.

I don't know the answer for gear driven lathes. Most of the ones I've
used had broken gears. I can feed quite smoothly and evenly by hand
and at home where it's quiet I increase the pressure on the handle
until I hear the motor speed decrease slightly.

At work I am an independent contractor machining parts I designed,
with no one watching closely, so I can use a safe, slower feed like an
amateur at home, and don't have to make as many spares.

jsw

Joe wrote:
On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:19:11 -0600, RBnDFW
wrote:

If it's an Atlas 618, with Timken bearing headstock, it's worth having.
If it's the smaller AA lathe labeled Craftsman, they are interesting
toys, and a big step down from the Sherline.

Bill Noble wrote:
that reminds me, a friend has one of the small Atlas mini-metal lathes -
that would be under the $400 you got your cool deal for - it's the
smallest of the atlas lathes - it's not all that rigid compared to a
clausing or something, but you can lift it onto the bench and store it
in the closet (that's what I did when I had one) - if interested,
contact me off the list

What about the later (Mk II) version of the Atlas (renamed the 3950)?
Is it the equal of the earlier 618?

Probably, but I much prefer the earlier one with the rounded headstock.
The later one had plastic gear covers, much Zamac, a smaller belt.
All the changes were in the headstock.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , spaco wrote:
I guess I'd ask what your budget is,

Six hundred, give or take.

how much room you have

Main limitation, actually, is the need to take it down a basement stairs.

and what you
want to do in the future. In my not-so-humble opinion, unless you do a
LOT of very small work where you need extremely high spindle speeds, I'd
get a 10 or 12 inch lathe with a 3 foot bed and quick change gear box,
at least.

Small work is all I plan to ever do -- doubtful I'll ever turn anything large
enough to need a 10x36.
How quickly do you need the lathe? Are you looking at Craig's List or
posting a "wanted" ad there?

No real rush. I've been looking at Craig's List. Haven't posted a wanted ad
yet, but I guess that's the logical next step.

Doug, I have 3 working lathes set up -
7x14 MicroMark Minilathe
9x17 Logan
10x24 Enco - 25-year-old Chinese

I find myself doing 90% of my "work" on the 10x24.
I think I could get it down into a basement with some care and a couple
helpers. So based on that, I'd suggest you looked seriously at that
10x24 Grizzly

But any of the above can be resold without minimal loss if you find it
doesn't work for you.

I confess that the minilathe is the most recent acquisition. It's the
3rd of those I've had. Can't stay away from them.

In article , RBnDFW wrote:
Doug, I have 3 working lathes set up -
7x14 MicroMark Minilathe
9x17 Logan
10x24 Enco - 25-year-old Chinese

I find myself doing 90% of my "work" on the 10x24.
I think I could get it down into a basement with some care and a couple
helpers. So based on that, I'd suggest you looked seriously at that
10x24 Grizzly

Beyond my budget, unfortunately, and there isn't anything I can do about that.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

I don't normally go in more than 0.050" per pass (0.1" off the
diameter) with whatever feed the lathe is comfortable with. The limit
is the tension of the flat leather belts, which I keep low enough to
slip without (usually) breaking a jammed tool.

On drill rod and stainless I reduce it to 0.025" per pass and speed up
the feed with the QC box. The time to remove a quantity of steel
doesn't change too much, tool point wear increases which would cost
more with inserts, with HSS it only costs grinding time, which doesn't
matter if you regrind before finishing anyway.

They are round numbers to make tracking the diameter reduction
easier.

The lathe can cut 0.1" deep, especially with considerable top rake on
the bit, but then it's more likely to dig in. That's a problem on an
old worn machine with tight and loose places in the slides.

I don't know the answer for gear driven lathes. Most of the ones I've
used had broken gears. I can feed quite smoothly and evenly by hand
and at home where it's quiet I increase the pressure on the handle
until I hear the motor speed decrease slightly.

At work I am an independent contractor machining parts I designed,
with no one watching closely, so I can use a safe, slower feed like an
amateur at home, and don't have to make as many spares.


OK, that brings it into perspective.

I run out of the square stock for my dial bases so I decided to mill and
turn a 3/4" square mystery bar from the scrap yard. I cut of a 3" piece - so
far so good. It was quite clean yet rusty mostly covered covered with oxide.
I tried to clean it up with the indexing mill but for some reason the head
was misbehaving and rather than risk a broken gear I did it with end-mills.
After a while the head saw reason and I was able to finish with the indexing
mill afer all.

I chucked it then in my 4-jaw chuck (by now it is a 0.7" x 0.7" x 3" bar)
and tried to turn a 1" x .350" step in the middle on my Taig. I am using
indicators on both axes. I started with an HSS bit. It really did
comofortably only 0.010" at a time but I noticed that during the cutting my
slide was moving away from the headstock in spite of being locked. I did not
believe it at first but true enough, there were definite shoulders at both
ends of the bar. I could not find the reason for it so I switched to a
carbide cutter (I know this defies logic but at this stage I run out of
logical thought). Lo and behold, the carriage stopped moving even though the
carbide cutter performed miserably as on all previous occasions. After I
chipped two of the three corners of the insert (I thought carbide was
supposed to be good for an interrupted cut!) I made a whole new left HSS
tool and tried to finish the job. Somewhere along in the process I noticed
that my spindle and motor pulleys were running well out of alignement - the
headstock had shifted by a good 3/4"!! Repositioned, re-tightened, finished
the job with a surprisingly good finish. I was able to drill the central
holes at right angles by turning the piece 90 degs in the 4-jaw chuck.

The point of this rambling story is to show that a job which would have
taken probably an hour even in my unskilled hands on a 10x22 took a whole
day on the Taig.

I guess my point is that if I had my time over, the budget allocated to a
small lathe and a small mill would have been combined to pay for a
medium-sized lathe.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

BTW there is a sad end to the story: Do you recall the thread on milling
slots? One of the central holes needed to be milled to a 0.25" x 0.400"
slot. having received the education I thought I would try the plunging
method. B....er me if the slot still did not come out crooked! I was only
plunging 0.050" at a time. I did use a 4-flute mill because a) I wanted to
change one thing at a time and b) I recall you saying that with this method
it did not matter if it was a 4 or 2 flute. In the end I was able to correct
the situation after a fashion by enlarging the slot to 5/16" by plunging
0.025", cutting sideways 0.15", plunging 0.025", cutting 0.15" sideways...28
times! It will fit a sundial, just not the one I was making :-)

I guess the final point is that the above argument applies to mills as well
as lathes. Like you did not know :-)

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:35:18 -0800, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

big snip
After I
chipped two of the three corners of the insert (I thought carbide was
supposed to be good for an interrupted cut!)...

Other way around. Carbide is really hard, brittle. Use HSS
for interrupted cuts. But you've got that figured out now

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:35:18 -0800, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

big snip
After I
chipped two of the three corners of the insert (I thought carbide was
supposed to be good for an interrupted cut!)...

Other way around. Carbide is really hard, brittle. Use HSS
for interrupted cuts. But you've got that figured out now


Common sense really.
And I am old enough not to believe everything I read on the internet :-)
I guess I am still hoping that those carbide cutters are actually good for
*something*.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 21:45:16 -0800, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

snip
And I am old enough not to believe everything I read on the internet :-)
I guess I am still hoping that those carbide cutters are actually good for
*something*.

Need to cut some HSS, maybe an old tap/die? That would be a
good place to try them out.

I broke off an "Easy-out" maybe a year ago. Not only did I
have a broken off, stuck bolt, but also a hardened easy-out
in the way. Sigh... Remembered I had a small carbide cutter
that fit my Dremel Tool, never done much with it, had it
around for +10 years. Kinda slow going, sparks flew, but it
chewed through the easy-out. Then I kept going and chewed
through two sides of the stuck bolt too. Should have done
that in the first place

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Dec 9, 12:45*am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
And I am old enough not to believe everything I read on the internet :-)
Michael Koblic

That's OK, I don't believe everything I write.
jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 9, 12:45 am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
And I am old enough not to believe everything I read on the internet
:-) Michael Koblic

That's OK, I don't believe everything I write.


Oh, no, I take your stuff pretty much as gospel. I do not remember where the
link to the "carbide is wonderful and especially for interrupted cuts" is.
Probably just as well...

I am still puzzled about the plunging business though. Today it got even
more bizar I was center drilling, pecking as usual, using a No. 3, when
on the second peck I noted that the point of the center drill would not
enter the hole cleanly (table locked, piece in a vise) and the machine would
shake somewhat almost like during milling process. I then went to drill a
No. 7 hole (to tap for 1/4-20) and the drill was not lined up with the
hole - off by some 0.020". Of course it flexes and finds the pre-drilled
centre hole, but the tap was also off by the same amount. This happened with
three holes! I wonder if it relates to the behaviour of the end-mills when
plunging.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On Dec 9, 9:39*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 9, 12:45 am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
And I am old enough not to believe everything I read on the internet
:-) Michael Koblic

That's OK, I don't believe everything I write.

Oh, no, I take your stuff pretty much as gospel. I do not remember where the
link to the "carbide is wonderful and especially for interrupted cuts" is..
Probably just as well...

I am still puzzled about the plunging business though. Today it got even
more bizar I was center drilling, pecking as usual, using a No. 3, when
on the second peck I noted that the point of the center drill would not
enter the hole cleanly (table locked, piece in a vise) and the machine would
shake somewhat almost like during milling process. I then went to drill a
No. 7 hole (to tap for 1/4-20) and the drill was not lined up with the
hole - off by some 0.020". Of course it flexes and finds the pre-drilled
centre hole, but the tap was also off by the same amount. This happened with
three holes! I wonder if it relates to the behaviour of the end-mills when
plunging.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On the lathe where the point is more visible I've seen a glob of steel
form on center drills where the chisel edge of the web doesn't cut
well. When it forms the drill will skate around until I stop and knock
the glob off.

Sometimes I get better results from stubby split point drill bits like
the ones for drilling Pop rivet holes. For the best accuracy I drill
with collets instead of a chuck.

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:

I am still puzzled about the plunging business though. Today it got
even more bizar I was center drilling, pecking as usual, using a
No. 3, when on the second peck I noted that the point of the center
drill would not enter the hole cleanly (table locked, piece in a
vise) and the machine would shake somewhat almost like during
milling process. I then went to drill a No. 7 hole (to tap for
1/4-20) and the drill was not lined up with the
hole - off by some 0.020". Of course it flexes and finds the
pre-drilled centre hole, but the tap was also off by the same
amount. This happened with three holes! I wonder if it relates to
the behaviour of the end-mills when plunging.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On the lathe where the point is more visible I've seen a glob of steel
form on center drills where the chisel edge of the web doesn't cut
well. When it forms the drill will skate around until I stop and knock
the glob off.

Sometimes I get better results from stubby split point drill bits like
the ones for drilling Pop rivet holes. For the best accuracy I drill
with collets instead of a chuck.


I examined the centre drill after each occurence and did not see anything
untoward.

I re-tightened the gibs on the z-axis today. Now the movement is quite
stiff. This will no doubt aggravate the other endearing feature of this
mill: If you are using the fine feed you'd better push down on the coarse
feed as well. Otherwise what tends to happen is the fine feed wheel turns
but the head does not move. At some point (inevitably when the cutter is
within a few thou of the surface of the workpiece) the head drops by 20 - 50
thou smacking the cutter into the surface. This can be particularly exciting
with the indexing mill. So far I have not broken gears this way but I feel
that day is coming...

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC