This winter I'd like to try to keep my batteries in good condition if
possible. I've got a zero turn mower, tractor, truck, backhoe, marine
batteries for the boat, I've counted 8 lead acid batteries to maintain in
all. My goal is to keep everything charged to be ready when I need it and
have my batteries to still be good next year when I need to mow again.

Possibilities are on-board automatic chargers or perhaps use weatherproof
connectors and running cables to a cabinet with chargers. Not sure if I
should run 120V to each vehicle for an on board charger or run the chargers
in a cabinet and run 12V charge leads to each battery. Just wondering if
any here have recommendations or good/bad experiences with such?

RogerN

On Oct 11, 1:09*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
This winter I'd like to try to keep my batteries in good condition if
possible. *I've got a zero turn mower, tractor, truck, backhoe, marine
batteries for the boat, I've counted 8 lead acid batteries to maintain in
all. *My goal is to keep everything charged to be ready when I need it and
have my batteries to still be good next year when I need to mow again.

Possibilities are on-board automatic chargers or perhaps use weatherproof
connectors and running cables to a cabinet with chargers. *Not sure if I
should run 120V to each vehicle for an on board charger or run the chargers
in a cabinet and run 12V charge leads to each battery. *Just wondering if
any here have recommendations or good/bad experiences with such?

RogerN

How cold does it get at your location?

How many sunny days do you have at your location?

TMT

I pull the batteries on all my seasonal use engines. Clean and put on a
board in the basement. Twice during winter, give them a tickle charge till
the auto charge light goes out.

Werks grate!

Karl

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 1:09 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
This winter I'd like to try to keep my batteries in good condition if
possible. I've got a zero turn mower, tractor, truck, backhoe, marine
batteries for the boat, I've counted 8 lead acid batteries to maintain in
all. My goal is to keep everything charged to be ready when I need it and
have my batteries to still be good next year when I need to mow again.

Possibilities are on-board automatic chargers or perhaps use weatherproof
connectors and running cables to a cabinet with chargers. Not sure if I
should run 120V to each vehicle for an on board charger or run the
chargers
in a cabinet and run 12V charge leads to each battery. Just wondering if
any here have recommendations or good/bad experiences with such?

RogerN
\
\How cold does it get at your location?
\
\How many sunny days do you have at your location?
\
\TMT
\

I'm not far from St Louis, it's warmer than Chicago but it's not unusual to
get a few 4WD snow days a year. That's the problem I had last year, my 1
ton 4WD truck doesn't get driven much unless I have to haul something or
need the 4WD. We had a snow day and I needed to take the truck and had to
charge the trucks (F350 diesel with 2 batteries) for a couple of hours
before it would start. This year I'm wanting to keep the truck ready to go
plus try to keep the seasonal batteries in shape for next year. I already
have a few bad batteries but I'd like to have automatic charging working
before buying new batteries. The backhoe is handy year around but only
using it every couple of months keeps the batteries dying.

RogerN

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
I pull the batteries on all my seasonal use engines. Clean and put on a
board in the basement. Twice during winter, give them a tickle charge till
the auto charge light goes out.

Werks grate!

Karl


That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine seems
to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed automatic
marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive side. That is
probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for chargers and
running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads will work OK with
low current maintenance charging.

RogerN

That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and
the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine
seems to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed
automatic marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive
side. That is probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for
chargers and running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads
will work OK with low current maintenance charging.

My SOP on winter machine that are a bit old:
Hook up engine block heater wait 30 minutes
Hook up large charger, set to 40 amp.
Put in starting ether.
Hit glow plug heater.
Starts right up even at -40.

Now, i did have an old car that wouldn't start at -50 with this treatment.
So, I lifted car with floor jack and stuck the 500,000 BTU knipco under. 20
minutes later i was on my way.

Karl

"RogerN" wrote in message
...

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
I pull the batteries on all my seasonal use engines. Clean and put on a
board in the basement. Twice during winter, give them a tickle charge
till
the auto charge light goes out.

Werks grate!

Karl


That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and
the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine
seems
to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed automatic
marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive side. That is
probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for chargers and
running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads will work OK
with
low current maintenance charging.

RogerN



For your 4WD you might want to look into the small solar panels that sit on
the dash board, and plug into the lighter socket to trickle charge the
batteries.

For your loader, getting a block heater and removing the battery to the
garage might be a good idea. Also I presume the loader has a diesel engine,
so some winter fuel treatment to keep the fuel from gelling might be a good
idea.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...

That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and
the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine
seems to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed
automatic marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive
side. That is probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for
chargers and running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads
will work OK with low current maintenance charging.

My SOP on winter machine that are a bit old:
Hook up engine block heater wait 30 minutes
Hook up large charger, set to 40 amp.
Put in starting ether.
Hit glow plug heater.
Starts right up even at -40.

Now, i did have an old car that wouldn't start at -50 with this treatment.
So, I lifted car with floor jack and stuck the 500,000 BTU knipco under.
20 minutes later i was on my way.

Karl


Sounds like your SOP ought to work well. My truck has a block heater, I'm
not sure if it's on all the time it's plugged in or if it has a thermostat.
Most days I take my ~ 35MPG car and only take a truck if I need to haul
something or it's bad weather needing the 4X4 (sometimes not even once a
year). Usually the problem is that I wake up and find out if I need the
truck or not. The last time that happened, the truck didn't have enough
charge in the batteries to get it started, I plugged in the block heater and
the charger, got it started a couple hours later. This year I hope to
improve the situation by keeping the batteries charged and turning on the
block heater if snow/ice is in the forecast.

RogerN

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...

That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and
the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine
seems to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed
automatic marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive
side. That is probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for
chargers and running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads
will work OK with low current maintenance charging.

My SOP on winter machine that are a bit old:
Hook up engine block heater wait 30 minutes
Hook up large charger, set to 40 amp.
Put in starting ether.
Hit glow plug heater.
Starts right up even at -40.

Now, i did have an old car that wouldn't start at -50 with this treatment.
So, I lifted car with floor jack and stuck the 500,000 BTU knipco under.
20 minutes later i was on my way.

Karl




Karl
Ether and glow plugs used together aren't a real good mix.
Steve

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:23:36 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:


That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and
the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine
seems to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed
automatic marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive
side. That is probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for
chargers and running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads
will work OK with low current maintenance charging.

My SOP on winter machine that are a bit old:
Hook up engine block heater wait 30 minutes
Hook up large charger, set to 40 amp.
Put in starting ether.
Hit glow plug heater.
Starts right up even at -40.

Now, i did have an old car that wouldn't start at -50 with this treatment.
So, I lifted car with floor jack and stuck the 500,000 BTU knipco under. 20
minutes later i was on my way.

Karl


Guy I used to work with in the late sixties had a 60 Corvair that
lived in a corn-crib for the winter - and he drove it to work every
morning. HIS sop was get out of bed, turn on the coffee, go out and
pull the steel fence stake wrapped in burlap and chichen wire out of
the barrel of used oil and deisel fuel, shoot a bit of ether at it,
light it and stick it under the back of the Corvair.
Go in, drink the coffee, eat brakfast, come out and start the Corvair
to go to work.

The back end of that beast was a mess of black oily soot, but he never
missed a day of work.

Never burned the darn thing either. Never could figure THAT one out.

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:34:04 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
tanews.com...

That would be great on the mower. I occasionally use the 4WD truck and
the
tractor with front end loader during the winter but a freezing engine
seems to take a good charge to get running. I like the idea of sealed
automatic marine chargers myself but they seem to be on the expensive
side. That is probably the main reason I'm considering an enclosure for
chargers and running cords for the charging. I'm hoping extended leads
will work OK with low current maintenance charging.

My SOP on winter machine that are a bit old:
Hook up engine block heater wait 30 minutes
Hook up large charger, set to 40 amp.
Put in starting ether.
Hit glow plug heater.
Starts right up even at -40.

Now, i did have an old car that wouldn't start at -50 with this treatment.
So, I lifted car with floor jack and stuck the 500,000 BTU knipco under.
20 minutes later i was on my way.

Karl


Sounds like your SOP ought to work well. My truck has a block heater, I'm
not sure if it's on all the time it's plugged in or if it has a thermostat.
Most days I take my ~ 35MPG car and only take a truck if I need to haul
something or it's bad weather needing the 4X4 (sometimes not even once a
year). Usually the problem is that I wake up and find out if I need the
truck or not. The last time that happened, the truck didn't have enough
charge in the batteries to get it started, I plugged in the block heater and
the charger, got it started a couple hours later. This year I hope to
improve the situation by keeping the batteries charged and turning on the
block heater if snow/ice is in the forecast.

RogerN



Friend's big White Field Boss generally didn't need to be started in
the winter - had the blower on a smaller tractor - but after a big
storm sometimes he'd need the boss - or if the hydro went out he's
hook the "boss" to the Winco.
To start it cold, he'd pull the air intake off and lay a Bernzomatic
torch in the manifold for a few minutes, then crank it over, and away
it would go, every time. Sure saved running the glow plugs and
wearing the battery down. When the hydro's off you don't have the
option of the block heater or the battery charger.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 2:41 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
snip

I'm not far from St Louis, it's warmer than Chicago but it's not unusual
to
get a few 4WD snow days a year. That's the problem I had last year, my 1
ton 4WD truck doesn't get driven much unless I have to haul something or
need the 4WD. We had a snow day and I needed to take the truck and had to
charge the trucks (F350 diesel with 2 batteries) for a couple of hours
before it would start. This year I'm wanting to keep the truck ready to go
plus try to keep the seasonal batteries in shape for next year. I already
have a few bad batteries but I'd like to have automatic charging working
before buying new batteries. The backhoe is handy year around but only
using it every couple of months keeps the batteries dying.

RogerN
/
/Okay...much more adverse environment than we have here in southern CA.
/
/Anything that NEEDS to run during the winter should have a trickle
/charger and engine heater.
/
/Anything else you can charge on a regular basis...just keep the charge
/topped off or the batteries will freeze.
/
/Be careful enclosing any charger...they do need ventilaton. I came
/very close to burning a van up by closing the hood on the van with a
/charger inside...I caught it as it was smoking.
/
/It is better to run a 110v extension cord than to run long 12v
/lines...low voltage lines drop too much voltage and give the charger
/an errorous indication as to its charge.
/
/A comment on trickle chargers...I have had several batteries killed by
/chargers that overcharged the batteries.
/
/Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
/them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.
/
/TMT

I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers and that is at
least part of the reason for my post here, thought maybe someone here found
one to recommend. I'm not sure I understand the difficulty a "Smart"
charger would have with batteries. Seems my auto voltage regulators keep my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had a
charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I could
set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to simulate
driving the car an hour a day.

RogerN

On Oct 11, 9:52*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Oct 11, 2:41 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
snip

I'm not far from St Louis, it's warmer than Chicago but it's not unusual
to
get a few 4WD snow days a year. That's the problem I had last year, my 1
ton 4WD truck doesn't get driven much unless I have to haul something or
need the 4WD. We had a snow day and I needed to take the truck and had to
charge the trucks (F350 diesel with 2 batteries) for a couple of hours
before it would start. This year I'm wanting to keep the truck ready to go
plus try to keep the seasonal batteries in shape for next year. I already
have a few bad batteries but I'd like to have automatic charging working
before buying new batteries. The backhoe is handy year around but only
using it every couple of months keeps the batteries dying.

RogerN

/
/Okay...much more adverse environment than we have here in southern CA.
/
/Anything that NEEDS to run during the winter should have a trickle
/charger and engine heater.
/
/Anything else you can charge on a regular basis...just keep the charge
/topped off or the batteries will freeze.
/
/Be careful enclosing any charger...they do need ventilaton. I came
/very close to burning a van up by closing the hood on the van with a
/charger inside...I caught it as it was smoking.
/
/It is better to run a 110v extension cord than to run long 12v
/lines...low voltage lines drop too much voltage and give the charger
/an errorous indication as to its charge.
/
/A comment on trickle chargers...I have had several batteries killed by
/chargers that overcharged the batteries.
/
/Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
/them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.
/
/TMT

I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers and that is at
least part of the reason for my post here, thought maybe someone here found
one to recommend. *I'm not sure I understand the difficulty a "Smart"
charger would have with batteries. *Seems my auto voltage regulators keep my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. *So, maybe if I had a
charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I could
set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to simulate
driving the car an hour a day.

RogerN


Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.

I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer.

How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV

TMT

Pete,

Reconsider the battery shut-off switch on any vehicle that has a computer
to run the engine.

Disconnecting the battery will cause the computer to lose engine settings.

And THAT can cause all kinds of wild problems when you hook it back up.

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:26:10 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:



Okay...much more adverse environment than we have here in southern CA.

Your location doesn't seem to inhibit you from dispensing advice for
those in colder climates.

Anything that NEEDS to run during the winter should have a trickle
charger and engine heater.

Anything else you can charge on a regular basis...just keep the charge
topped off or the batteries will freeze.

I don't do that with my boat batteries and I've never had a battery
freeze during my 40 years in Minnesota.

Be careful enclosing any charger...they do need ventilaton. I came
very close to burning a van up by closing the hood on the van with a
charger inside...I caught it as it was smoking.

It is better to run a 110v extension cord than to run long 12v
lines...low voltage lines drop too much voltage and give the charger
an errorous indication as to its charge.

Correct.

A comment on trickle chargers...I have had several batteries killed by
chargers that overcharged the batteries.

Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.

Good chargers are the key to battery longevity. They are not cheap,
but they're very good value in the long run. Overcharging is death on
lead-acid batteries.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 9:52 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
Snip

I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers and that is at
least part of the reason for my post here, thought maybe someone here
found
one to recommend. I'm not sure I understand the difficulty a "Smart"
charger would have with batteries. Seems my auto voltage regulators keep
my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had a
charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I could
set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to simulate
driving the car an hour a day.

RogerN
/
/
/Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
/decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
/of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
/erractically.
/
/I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer.
/
/How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
/amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV
/
/TMT

That gives me an idea, if I use a 2 amp charger that starts when connected,
wired the output through relays and use a spare PLC, I can use one charger
and automatically switch it to each battery for 1 hour a day. I can
separate the long runs and run 120VAC to an on board charger.

RogerN

On Oct 12, 1:49*am, Don Foreman wrote:

Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.

Good chargers are the key to battery longevity. They are not cheap,
but they're very good value in the long run. *Overcharging is death on
lead-acid batteries.

I use a simpler version of Spaco's method, minus the spreadsheet. On
the first weekend of each (or every other, I sometimes forget) month I
top up rechargeable batteries in flashlights, remotes, clocks, drills,
jump starters and unused vehicles. For lead-acids I have one 2A/10A
smart charger, one import trickle charger and otherwise homebrews and
lab supplies that don't shut off automatically, but since I'm working
the rounds they won't be forgotten and left on to damage the battery.
The raised hood is a good reminder.

The homebrews can put out enough voltage to equalize the cells of an
old battery and considerably extend its useful life. They have analog
current meters to help set the output current, and I use the $4 HF
DVMs to watch the voltage.

www.batteryfaq.org has a chart of the open circuit voltage reading vs
state of charge over temperature. A battery that won't charge to 100%
is getting old or needs attention.

jsw

Do you mean that if you were to replace the battery in your car, it
wouldn't run? Or do you mean you'd loose error codes?

If I take my car in for service and they do certain kinds of work, it
comes back with the radio stations lost, but the engine runs fine. Do
they put the engine settings back?

If the alternative was a dead battery, then what's the difference?


Another point about what causes batteries to discharge when not in use:
I have heard that some cars have "cathodic protection systems" to, I
guess, minimize rusting. That must take a fair amount of current, too.

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------

cavelamb wrote:
Pete,

Reconsider the battery shut-off switch on any vehicle that has a computer
to run the engine.

Disconnecting the battery will cause the computer to lose engine settings.

And THAT can cause all kinds of wild problems when you hook it back up.

What has been your experience with these "small solar panels"?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------------

Roger Shoaf wrote:


For your 4WD you might want to look into the small solar panels that sit on
the dash board, and plug into the lighter socket to trickle charge the
batteries.

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 05:43:52 -0500, RogerN wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote ...
On Oct 11, 9:52 pm, "RogerN" wrote: Snip
I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers Snip
Seems my auto voltage regulators keep my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had
a charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I
could set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to
simulate driving the car an hour a day.

Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.

I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer. /
How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV / TMT

That gives me an idea, if I use a 2 amp charger that starts when
connected, wired the output through relays and use a spare PLC, I can
use one charger and automatically switch it to each battery for 1 hour a
day. I can separate the long runs and run 120VAC to an on board
charger.

An alternative to 2 Amps for 1 hour per day is 80mA all the time,
although 25mA - 50mA might be enough. You can make a constant-current
source with a few transistor/resistor/diode parts powered by a 16-20V
wall-wart. Some circuit variations are shown in following refs. For
fixed font, click More Options, Show original.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...b9f1d7a1bb7f7f
High side, PNP (eg 2N3906), w LED voltage ref and indicator. Choose R1
between 100 ohms and 100K ohms so that LED brightness is adequate and there's
at least 100 uA (microamps) to spare to drive the base of the transistor.
Choose R2 = Rs = sense resistor to satisfy Rs * Im + Vbe = Vled, where
Im = desired current, Vbe = typical Vbe drop ~ .7V, Vled = LED voltage ~
1.6V. Eg, for 50mA, Rs * .05 + .7 = 1.6 -- Rs = 18 ohms. Attach battery
to be charged between "Out" and ground. With supply voltage Vs and charge
voltage Vx, there will be Vs - Vx volts across R2 and Q1; eg, if Vs=20, Rs=18,
Vbe=1.6, Im=.05, and Vx=13.6, then V(R2) = 18*.05 = .9V, so Vce=20-0.9-13.6
=5.5V. So 275mW is dissipated in transistor with Vs = 20V; it would be
better to use Vs = 16V, giving Vce=1.5V and power = 75mW.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...dfa74d63ad83af
Low side, NPN, w LED. Use 2N2222, 2N3904, or similar. If supply voltage Vs
is fixed and reasonably stiff, one can also use a resistive divider: Put
R2 = 100K in place of the 150 ohm resistor and R1 = 5K-9K in place of the
LED. Eg, with Vs=20VDC, R1=5.6K, and max current = Im = 60mA, sense resistor
Rs = 4.7 ohm = ((Vs*R1/(R1+R2))-Vbe)/Im. One can also put a 5K trimpot in
place of R1, to make the constant current adjustable from 0mA up to about
40mA. However, with a 10K pot, max current would be about 210mA (which is
over the 200mA absolute maximum rating of 2N2222 and 2N3904 transistors)
unless you increase R2 to say 102K.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...4c255179d3484a
Low side, NPN, as drawn uses one transistor and one resistor per additional
CCS. Advantages of diode voltage-ref over resistor divider ref: Temperature
compensation, if diode and transistor junction temps are the same; and
less dependence on exact value of Vs.

--
jiw

As best I understand it, the computer compensates for things that
can effect, for instance, mixture.

When I had front end work done on my Blazer, the battery was disconnected
for a couple of days. The computer lost all the settings it had been using
to control mixture. The throttle had "stuck" a couple of times; didn't back off
when I took my foot off of the gas.

No codes thrown - just normal accumulation due to age and mileage (he said).

When hooked back up, the car would not keep running at idle.
It died in seconds.

The mechanic working on it said that told him exactly what the "stuck throttle"
problem was - some kind of accumulation in the throttle body. He opened it up
and cleaned it out and it ran fine.

After a month, it started doing it again, so I added a bottle of Gumout Fuel
system cleaner to the gas at oil change time - and it hasn't happened since.

All this because the stepper motors that control mixture and throttle were
getting gummed up and not positioning correctly and the computer was
compensating to try to keep the engine running. When it lost settings, it
just couldn't run at all.



That's as best I understand what he told me anyway...

Richard

spaco wrote:
Do you mean that if you were to replace the battery in your car, it
wouldn't run? Or do you mean you'd loose error codes?

If I take my car in for service and they do certain kinds of work, it
comes back with the radio stations lost, but the engine runs fine. Do
they put the engine settings back?

If the alternative was a dead battery, then what's the difference?


Another point about what causes batteries to discharge when not in use:
I have heard that some cars have "cathodic protection systems" to, I
guess, minimize rusting. That must take a fair amount of current, too.

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------

cavelamb wrote:
Pete,

Reconsider the battery shut-off switch on any vehicle that has a computer
to run the engine.

Disconnecting the battery will cause the computer to lose engine
settings.

And THAT can cause all kinds of wild problems when you hook it back up.

"James Waldby" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 05:43:52 -0500, RogerN wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote ...
On Oct 11, 9:52 pm, "RogerN" wrote: Snip
I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers Snip
Seems my auto voltage regulators keep my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had
a charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I
could set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to
simulate driving the car an hour a day.

Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.

I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer. /
How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV / TMT

That gives me an idea, if I use a 2 amp charger that starts when
connected, wired the output through relays and use a spare PLC, I can
use one charger and automatically switch it to each battery for 1 hour a
day. I can separate the long runs and run 120VAC to an on board
charger.

An alternative to 2 Amps for 1 hour per day is 80mA all the time,
although 25mA - 50mA might be enough. You can make a constant-current
source with a few transistor/resistor/diode parts powered by a 16-20V
wall-wart. Some circuit variations are shown in following refs. For
fixed font, click More Options, Show original.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...b9f1d7a1bb7f7f
High side, PNP (eg 2N3906), w LED voltage ref and indicator. Choose R1
between 100 ohms and 100K ohms so that LED brightness is adequate and
there's
at least 100 uA (microamps) to spare to drive the base of the transistor.
Choose R2 = Rs = sense resistor to satisfy Rs * Im + Vbe = Vled, where
Im = desired current, Vbe = typical Vbe drop ~ .7V, Vled = LED voltage ~
1.6V. Eg, for 50mA, Rs * .05 + .7 = 1.6 -- Rs = 18 ohms. Attach battery
to be charged between "Out" and ground. With supply voltage Vs and charge
voltage Vx, there will be Vs - Vx volts across R2 and Q1; eg, if Vs=20,
Rs=18,
Vbe=1.6, Im=.05, and Vx=13.6, then V(R2) = 18*.05 = .9V, so
Vce=20-0.9-13.6
=5.5V. So 275mW is dissipated in transistor with Vs = 20V; it would be
better to use Vs = 16V, giving Vce=1.5V and power = 75mW.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...dfa74d63ad83af
Low side, NPN, w LED. Use 2N2222, 2N3904, or similar. If supply voltage
Vs
is fixed and reasonably stiff, one can also use a resistive divider: Put
R2 = 100K in place of the 150 ohm resistor and R1 = 5K-9K in place of the
LED. Eg, with Vs=20VDC, R1=5.6K, and max current = Im = 60mA, sense
resistor
Rs = 4.7 ohm = ((Vs*R1/(R1+R2))-Vbe)/Im. One can also put a 5K trimpot in
place of R1, to make the constant current adjustable from 0mA up to about
40mA. However, with a 10K pot, max current would be about 210mA (which is
over the 200mA absolute maximum rating of 2N2222 and 2N3904 transistors)
unless you increase R2 to say 102K.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...4c255179d3484a
Low side, NPN, as drawn uses one transistor and one resistor per
additional
CCS. Advantages of diode voltage-ref over resistor divider ref:
Temperature
compensation, if diode and transistor junction temps are the same; and
less dependence on exact value of Vs.

--
jiw

The 2A rating on a lead acid battery charger is more like 2A for a
discharged battery and lower current depending on the state of charge, quite
different than a 2A constant current charger. So, with what I was thinking
if the battery needed the charge, it would draw up to 2A from the charger,
if not, it might only draw a fraction of an amp from the charger to keep
itself in a good state of charge.

From what I read today, a daily charge voltage should be from 14.2V to 14.4V
at 20 Deg. C with a -0.022V per Deg. C temperature coefficient. I have some
PLC's around with RTD and thermocouple inputs plus analog inputs and
outputs. I guess to ultimate solution would be to measure the temperature,
calculate the perfect charge voltage, and apply it to a daily charge
routine. I'm more likely to just switch my Schumacher 6A/2A charger to each
battery for an hour a day and call it good enough. At least it would be
better than no charge at all until I need to use the vehicle.

I have thought of using a diy circuit, perhaps similar to what you are
thinking of. I was thinking of using an adjustable voltage regulator with a
resistor inline to lower the voltage output as the current increased. I
played with a circuit simulator and found a resistors that would give good
current at 12V and decrease to near zero around 14.4V.

RogerN

On Oct 12, 8:35*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"James Waldby" wrote in message

. ..




Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.
jiw

The 2A rating on a lead acid battery charger is more like 2A for a
discharged battery and lower current depending on the state of charge, quite
different than a 2A constant current charger. *

RogerN

The "2A" range on my 2/10/50A Schumacher starts at 4 - 5A and
decreases as the battery comes up; it passed smoothly through 2A but
didn't stay there, IIRC at cutoff the current was less than 1A.

An LM317 adjustable regulator IC is enough to make a decent trickle
charger. Adjust the pot that sets it to the end voltage, the device
limits the current to 1.25A max, then it falls off as the battery
nears the set point. You could print the temperature compensation
chart and tape it to the box.

This is a commercial version with voltage and current meters:
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/la...4606?ref=gbase
The one-turn voltage adjustment is tricky but good enough for lead-
acids, though you'll need a separate voltmeter with more resolution

jsw

On Oct 12, 12:49*am, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:26:10 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

Okay...much more adverse environment than we have here in southern CA.

Your location doesn't seem to inhibit you from dispensing advice for
those in colder climates.



Anything that NEEDS to run during the winter should have a trickle
charger and engine heater.

Anything else you can charge on a regular basis...just keep the charge
topped off or the batteries will freeze.

I don't do that with my boat batteries and I've never had a battery
freeze during my 40 years in Minnesota.

Be careful enclosing any charger...they do need ventilaton. I came
very close to burning a van up by closing the hood on the van with a
charger inside...I caught it as it was smoking.

It is better to run a 110v extension cord than to run long 12v
lines...low voltage lines drop too much voltage and give the charger
an errorous indication as to its charge.

Correct.

A comment on trickle chargers...I have had several batteries killed by
chargers that overcharged the batteries.

Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.

Good chargers are the key to battery longevity. They are not cheap,
but they're very good value in the long run. *Overcharging is death on
lead-acid batteries.

LOL...Your location doesn't seem to inhibit you from dispensing advice
for
those in warmer climates. ;)

And guess what...batteries go dead in CA too.

And in the mountains one does need to watch for freezing temperatures
and snow storms.

And heck...we even have boats and fish here too Don...care to come
visit us?

TMT

On Oct 12, 5:43*am, "RogerN" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Oct 11, 9:52 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
Snip

I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers and that is at
least part of the reason for my post here, thought maybe someone here
found
one to recommend. I'm not sure I understand the difficulty a "Smart"
charger would have with batteries. Seems my auto voltage regulators keep
my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had a
charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I could
set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to simulate
driving the car an hour a day.

RogerN

/
/
/Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
/decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
/of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
/erractically.
/
/I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer.
/
/How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
/amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV
/
/TMT

That gives me an idea, if I use a 2 amp charger that starts when connected,
wired the output through relays and use a spare PLC, I can use one charger
and automatically switch it to each battery for 1 hour a day. *I can
separate the long runs and run 120VAC to an on board charger.

RogerN

Good idea.

I would just avoid running extra long leads on the low voltage side
whenever possible...it is just too easy for voltage loss to cause you
problems especially now with smart chargers monitoring the battery's
voltage.


I have found that I need a "dumb" charger to start batteries who have
been seriously discharged and then allowing the smart charger to
finish...again that little chip in the smart charger being a bit too
"smart".

Idealy you should monitor your batteries with a hydrometer to
determine the acid/water ratio to know when you are charging at the
optimal rate and time.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 5:43 am, "RogerN" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Oct 11, 9:52 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
Snip

I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers and that is
at
least part of the reason for my post here, thought maybe someone here
found
one to recommend. I'm not sure I understand the difficulty a "Smart"
charger would have with batteries. Seems my auto voltage regulators keep
my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had a
charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I
could
set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to simulate
driving the car an hour a day.

RogerN

/
/
/Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
/decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
/of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
/erractically.
/
/I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer.
/
/How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
/amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV
/
/TMT

That gives me an idea, if I use a 2 amp charger that starts when
connected,
wired the output through relays and use a spare PLC, I can use one charger
and automatically switch it to each battery for 1 hour a day. I can
separate the long runs and run 120VAC to an on board charger.

RogerN
/
/Good idea.
/
/I would just avoid running extra long leads on the low voltage side
/whenever possible...it is just too easy for voltage loss to cause you
/problems especially now with smart chargers monitoring the battery's
/voltage.

Some of the chargers description described as charging and then monitoring
the voltage, when it falls below a certain point it charges again. This had
me thinking that it monitors voltage with almost no current flow. I'd guess
it also monitors voltage during charge with current flow. I thought if I
were brewing my own, I would use shielded 4 conductor, 2 wires for charge
and 2 others for measuring voltage.

/I have found that I need a "dumb" charger to start batteries who have
/been seriously discharged and then allowing the smart charger to
/finish...again that little chip in the smart charger being a bit too
/"smart".

Occasionaly I have to use a good battery in parallel with the discharged
battery to get my "smart" charger to work.

/Idealy you should monitor your batteries with a hydrometer to
/determine the acid/water ratio to know when you are charging at the
/optimal rate and time.
/
/TMT

I would think that would be the best way to get the ultimate charge without
overcharging.

I've played with an adjustable regulator circuit in Electronics Workbench
simulator. I used the typical voltage divider circuit to set the open
circuit voltage and used an inline resistor so that the voltage goes down as
the current goes up. I got an open circuit voltage of 14.201V, .19A at 14V,
2A at 13V.

RogerN

"spaco" wrote in message
news
What has been your experience with these "small solar panels"?

None personally, but I met a merchant marine sailor that kept a car in
storage while he was at sea and used one of these and he seemed to be
pleased that he could start his car and go after leaving it for months at a
time.

Seems to me it might be worth a shot for the OP to try as draping wires all
over the place or lugging batteries in and out of vehicles in the freezing
cold can't be fun.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

On Oct 12, 11:04*pm, "RogerN" wrote:

Some of the chargers description described as charging and then monitoring
the voltage, when it falls below a certain point it charges again. *This had
me thinking that it monitors voltage with almost no current flow. *I'd guess
it also monitors voltage during charge with current flow. *I thought if I
were brewing my own, I would use shielded 4 conductor, 2 wires for charge
and 2 others for measuring voltage.

Kelvin connections won't help you with lead-acids. They charge to an
artificially high voltage due to "surface charge", which takes time to
dissipate. This article says 4 - 8 hours:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

/I have found that I need a "dumb" charger to start batteries who have
/been seriously discharged and then allowing the smart charger to
/finish...again that little chip in the smart charger being a bit too
/"smart".

Agreed. I need the homebrew lab-supply chargers for older batteries
whose cells have become unequal or sulphated.

I would think that would be the best way to get the ultimate charge without
overcharging.

I've played with an adjustable regulator circuit in Electronics Workbench
simulator. *I used the typical voltage divider circuit to set the open
circuit voltage and used an inline resistor so that the voltage goes down as
the current goes up. *I got an open circuit voltage of 14.201V, .19A at 14V,
2A at 13V.

RogerN

You don't need the series resistor, the exact shape of the knee
(constant-current to voltage transition) doesn't matter.
http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 8:35 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"James Waldby" wrote in message

. ..




Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.
jiw

The 2A rating on a lead acid battery charger is more like 2A for a
discharged battery and lower current depending on the state of charge,
quite
different than a 2A constant current charger.

RogerN
/
/The "2A" range on my 2/10/50A Schumacher starts at 4 - 5A and
/decreases as the battery comes up; it passed smoothly through 2A but
/didn't stay there, IIRC at cutoff the current was less than 1A.
/
/An LM317 adjustable regulator IC is enough to make a decent trickle
/charger. Adjust the pot that sets it to the end voltage, the device
/limits the current to 1.25A max, then it falls off as the battery
/nears the set point. You could print the temperature compensation
/chart and tape it to the box.
/
/This is a commercial version with voltage and current meters:
/http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/lascar/dataloggers/psu130.htm#00034606?ref=gbase
/The one-turn voltage adjustment is tricky but good enough for lead-
/acids, though you'll need a separate voltmeter with more resolution
/
/jsw

That would be interesting, I could send a higher DC voltage to the vehicle
and have the voltage regulator on board. It would be neat if I could get
temperature compensation close with a PT100 RTD or similar, I guess I'd just
have to calculate the temperature coefficient of the platinum
versus -0.022V/deg C for the battery. Anyway, if I could get the circuit
right, I could power it a couple of hours a day and keep the battery topped
off. I would think that would do at least as good as an automotive
alternator/regulator does.

RogerN

On Oct 13, 6:47*am, "RogerN" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message

...
On Oct 12, 8:35 pm, "RogerN" wrote:





"James Waldby" wrote in message

...

Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.
jiw

The 2A rating on a lead acid battery charger is more like 2A for a
discharged battery and lower current depending on the state of charge,
quite
different than a 2A constant current charger.

RogerN

/
/The "2A" range on my 2/10/50A Schumacher starts at 4 - 5A and
/decreases as the battery comes up; it passed smoothly through 2A but
/didn't stay there, IIRC at cutoff the current was less than 1A.
/
/An LM317 adjustable regulator IC is enough to make a decent trickle
/charger. Adjust the pot that sets it to the end voltage, the device
/limits the current to 1.25A max, then it falls off as the battery
/nears the set point. You could print the temperature compensation
/chart and tape it to the box.
/
/This is a commercial version with voltage and current meters:
/http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/lascar/dataloggers/psu130.htm#00034...
/The one-turn voltage adjustment is tricky but good enough for lead-
/acids, though you'll need a separate voltmeter with more resolution
/
/jsw

That would be interesting, I could send a higher DC voltage to the vehicle
and have the voltage regulator on board. *It would be neat if I could get
temperature compensation close with a PT100 RTD or similar, I guess I'd just
have to calculate the temperature coefficient of the platinum
versus -0.022V/deg C for the battery. Anyway, if I could get the circuit
right, I could power it a couple of hours a day and keep the battery topped
off. *I would think that would do at least as good as an automotive
alternator/regulator does.

RogerN

The LM317 regulates current instead of voltage if you tap off the ADJ
terminal. It tries to force the voltage between OUT and ADJ to be
1.25V, so a 12.5 ohm resistor between them will set a constant current
of 100mA, for example. Make the current a little higher than the
measured parasitic drain current of the car's electronics and don't
worry about voltage or temperature.

I don't do this to in-vehicle batteries because anything left
connected to the positive terminal is a possible short-circuit fire
hazard if it fails.

jsw

On Oct 13, 4:18*am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
"spaco" wrote in message

news
What has been your experience with these "small solar panels"?

None personally, but I met a merchant marine sailor that kept a car in
storage while he was at sea and used one of these and he seemed to be
pleased that he could start his car and go after leaving it for months at a
time.

Seems to me it might be worth a shot for the OP to try as draping wires all
over the place or lugging batteries in and out of vehicles in the freezing
cold can't be fun.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

The problem with solar panels is that they vary with the amount of
sunshine.

I suspect that the amount of sunshine the Midwest gets is considerably
different than what southern CA gets.

I have heard of batteries going dead because of weeks of clouds. And
one can easily have overcharging because of weeks of all sunshine.

Regulation is always needed..and most small panels have none.

TMT

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 11:04 pm, "RogerN" wrote:

Some of the chargers description described as charging and then monitoring
the voltage, when it falls below a certain point it charges again. This
had
me thinking that it monitors voltage with almost no current flow. I'd
guess
it also monitors voltage during charge with current flow. I thought if I
were brewing my own, I would use shielded 4 conductor, 2 wires for charge
and 2 others for measuring voltage.
/
/Kelvin connections won't help you with lead-acids. They charge to an
/artificially high voltage due to "surface charge", which takes time to
/dissipate. This article says 4 - 8 hours:
/http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm
/

I was thinking of charging to a 14.2-14.4 charge voltage, the voltage would
be sensed by 2 wires with very low current. The reason is because if I ran
a wire from my house to my batteries in vehicles, the wire would drop some
voltage on the current carrying charge lines. The idea is the same as using
a 3 or 4 wire connection to a platinum RTD. The current carrying leads of
an RTD only carry 1mA but that's enough error to throw the reading off. If
I did use something like a LM317 regulator I could adjust it for 14.4V and
as the battery charged, and the current decreased, the voltage drop in the
wire would also decrease.

/I have found that I need a "dumb" charger to start batteries who have
/been seriously discharged and then allowing the smart charger to
/finish...again that little chip in the smart charger being a bit too
/"smart".
/
/Agreed. I need the homebrew lab-supply chargers for older batteries
/whose cells have become unequal or sulphated.
/
I would think that would be the best way to get the ultimate charge
without
overcharging.

I've played with an adjustable regulator circuit in Electronics Workbench
simulator. I used the typical voltage divider circuit to set the open
circuit voltage and used an inline resistor so that the voltage goes down
as
the current goes up. I got an open circuit voltage of 14.201V, .19A at
14V,
2A at 13V.

RogerN
/
/You don't need the series resistor, the exact shape of the knee
/(constant-current to voltage transition) doesn't matter.
/http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html
/
/jsw

By using a series resistor I can make the supply current go to zero as the
voltage approaches full charge voltage. This gives a power source that is
limited in both voltage and current.

RogerN

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 1:09 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
This winter I'd like to try to keep my batteries in good condition if
possible. I've got a zero turn mower, tractor, truck, backhoe, marine
batteries for the boat, I've counted 8 lead acid batteries to maintain in
all. My goal is to keep everything charged to be ready when I need it and
have my batteries to still be good next year when I need to mow again.

Possibilities are on-board automatic chargers or perhaps use weatherproof
connectors and running cables to a cabinet with chargers. Not sure if I
should run 120V to each vehicle for an on board charger or run the
chargers
in a cabinet and run 12V charge leads to each battery. Just wondering if
any here have recommendations or good/bad experiences with such?

RogerN

How cold does it get at your location?

Colder than your mommies (both of them) tit!



How many sunny days do you have at your location?

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 2:41 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Oct 11, 1:09 pm, "RogerN" wrote: This winter I'd
like to try to keep my batteries in good condition if
possible. I've got a zero turn mower, tractor, truck, backhoe, marine
batteries for the boat, I've counted 8 lead acid batteries to maintain
in
all. My goal is to keep everything charged to be ready when I need it
and
have my batteries to still be good next year when I need to mow again.

Possibilities are on-board automatic chargers or perhaps use
weatherproof
connectors and running cables to a cabinet with chargers. Not sure if I
should run 120V to each vehicle for an on board charger or run the
chargers
in a cabinet and run 12V charge leads to each battery. Just wondering
if
any here have recommendations or good/bad experiences with such?

RogerN

\
\How cold does it get at your location?
\
\How many sunny days do you have at your location?
\
\TMT
\

I'm not far from St Louis, it's warmer than Chicago but it's not unusual
to
get a few 4WD snow days a year. That's the problem I had last year, my 1
ton 4WD truck doesn't get driven much unless I have to haul something or
need the 4WD. We had a snow day and I needed to take the truck and had to
charge the trucks (F350 diesel with 2 batteries) for a couple of hours
before it would start. This year I'm wanting to keep the truck ready to
go
plus try to keep the seasonal batteries in shape for next year. I already
have a few bad batteries but I'd like to have automatic charging working
before buying new batteries. The backhoe is handy year around but only
using it every couple of months keeps the batteries dying.

RogerN

Okay...much more adverse environment than we have here in southern CA.

Anything that NEEDS to run during the winter should have a trickle
charger and engine heater.

Anything else you can charge on a regular basis...just keep the charge
topped off or the batteries will freeze.

Be careful enclosing any charger...they do need ventilaton. I came
very close to burning a van up by closing the hood on the van with a
charger inside...I caught it as it was smoking.

It is better to run a 110v extension cord than to run long 12v
lines...low voltage lines drop too much voltage and give the charger
an errorous indication as to its charge.

A comment on trickle chargers...I have had several batteries killed by
chargers that overcharged the batteries.

Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.

TMT

TMT knows about trickles. His mommies trickle their spooge into his eye as
he watches them through the peephole he drilled into the basement ceiling.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 9:52 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Oct 11, 2:41 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
snip

I'm not far from St Louis, it's warmer than Chicago but it's not
unusual
to
get a few 4WD snow days a year. That's the problem I had last year, my
1
ton 4WD truck doesn't get driven much unless I have to haul something
or
need the 4WD. We had a snow day and I needed to take the truck and had
to
charge the trucks (F350 diesel with 2 batteries) for a couple of hours
before it would start. This year I'm wanting to keep the truck ready to
go
plus try to keep the seasonal batteries in shape for next year. I
already
have a few bad batteries but I'd like to have automatic charging
working
before buying new batteries. The backhoe is handy year around but only
using it every couple of months keeps the batteries dying.

RogerN

/
/Okay...much more adverse environment than we have here in southern CA.
/
/Anything that NEEDS to run during the winter should have a trickle
/charger and engine heater.
/
/Anything else you can charge on a regular basis...just keep the charge
/topped off or the batteries will freeze.
/
/Be careful enclosing any charger...they do need ventilaton. I came
/very close to burning a van up by closing the hood on the van with a
/charger inside...I caught it as it was smoking.
/
/It is better to run a 110v extension cord than to run long 12v
/lines...low voltage lines drop too much voltage and give the charger
/an errorous indication as to its charge.
/
/A comment on trickle chargers...I have had several batteries killed by
/chargers that overcharged the batteries.
/
/Also in my experience smart chargers are not so smart...I have seen
/them not charge batteries or overcharge them....always watch them.
/
/TMT

I've also been disappointed with some of the smart chargers and that is
at
least part of the reason for my post here, thought maybe someone here
found
one to recommend. I'm not sure I understand the difficulty a "Smart"
charger would have with batteries. Seems my auto voltage regulators keep
my
batteries happy for years on the car I drive daily. So, maybe if I had a
charger that automatically started charging when the power was on, I
could
set a time to charge the battery for maybe an hour a day, to simulate
driving the car an hour a day.

RogerN


Smart chargers are based on a chip that have the lead acid charge/
decay curves telling it how to act. I suspect it monitors the voltage
of the battery and if that info is faulty then the charger works
erractically.

I too am a believer in settng chargers up on a timer.

How long to charge? Good question. I just do it a hour a day with 2
amp chargers and it seems to work. YMMV

TMT

How long does it take to charge up those battery operated dildos for your
two mommies TMT?

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 4:18 am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
"spaco" wrote in message

news
What has been your experience with these "small solar panels"?

None personally, but I met a merchant marine sailor that kept a car in
storage while he was at sea and used one of these and he seemed to be
pleased that he could start his car and go after leaving it for months at
a
time.

Seems to me it might be worth a shot for the OP to try as draping wires
all
over the place or lugging batteries in and out of vehicles in the
freezing
cold can't be fun.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,
then
they come up with this striped stuff.

The problem with solar panels is that they vary with the amount of
sunshine.

I suspect that the amount of sunshine the Midwest gets is considerably
different than what southern CA gets.

I have heard of batteries going dead because of weeks of clouds. And
one can easily have overcharging because of weeks of all sunshine.

Regulation is always needed..and most small panels have none.

TMT

TMT knows about regulation. Every day he watches his mommies through the
peephole he drilled in the basement ceiling, as they go "squeek squeek" on
the mattress springs. It is with precise regulation that they throw their
fecal covered dildos down the basement steps for TMT to clean. It's a wonder
he has time to come over and spam our newsgroup.

On Oct 13, 8:55*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
By using a series resistor I can make the supply current go to zero as the
voltage approaches full charge voltage. *This gives a power source that is
limited in both voltage and current.

RogerN

If you set the circuit up and measure it you'll see that the current
decreases naturally as the battery voltage nears the open-circuit
output of the supply. The $4 HF meters are good enough for this,
barely, and cheap enough to risk frying from an accident. The meter
lead and shunt resistance on the 10A setting will round off the
current/voltage transition knee.

Kelvin connections won't account for the battery's internal resistance
or surface charge effects. Some smart chargers periodically shut off
the current, wait a bit, then measure the battery voltage after it's
had time to settle.

jsw

I had a Horrid Fright float charger. Boiled my marine
battery dry, and killed it.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"David Lesher" wrote in message
...


Harbor Fright makes 42292-0VGA; $6.00
Also 99867-0VGA for $20..


--
A host is a host from coast to

& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301)
56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't
close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or
dead....................................20915-1433