Not quite up to the level of Start Trek stuff, but....

Professor Wark added: ‘What is particularly remarkable about our experiment is
that we have turned ordinary aluminum into this exotic new material in a single
step by using this very powerful laser. For a brief period the sample looks and
behaves in every way like a new form of matter. In certain respects, the way it
reacts is as though we had changed every aluminum atom into silicon: it’s almost
as surprising as finding that you can turn lead into gold with light!’

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0727130814.htm

I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...

Larry The Snake Guy wrote:
I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...


It's a work in process...
And likely will lead to (other) new knowledge - that will lead to new
principles and materials.

quotes:

For a brief period the sample looks and behaves in every way like a new form of
matter. In certain respects, the way it reacts is as though we had changed every
aluminum atom into silicon: it’s almost as surprising as finding that you can
turn lead into gold with light!

Transparent aluminum is just the start. The physical properties of the matter we
are creating are relevant to the conditions inside large planets, and we also
hope that by studying it we can gain a greater understanding of what is going on
during the creation of 'miniature stars' created by high-power laser implosions,
which may one day allow the power of nuclear fusion to be harnessed here on Earth



As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

They turned out to be steelworkers, running their steel mill in the nanoworld -
the chemists around Prof. Dr. Roland A. Fischer (faculty of chemistry of RUB).
In the neverland between molecule and metal they discovered a new family of
compounds. The prototype of these new “nano alloys” is a compound containing one
central molybdenum atom binding twelve zinc atoms. The icosahedral metal chunk
is wrapped into hydrocarbons and therefore surprisingly stable. Its construction
is transferable to both other metal centers and other structures. Also the zinc
atoms can be exchanged to other metal atoms, even to gold.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1112075039.htm

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:18:29 -0700, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:

I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...

I don't recall exactly; what was their reason for not using, say,
6" polycarbonate sheet?

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:18:29 -0700, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:

I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...

I don't recall exactly; what was their reason for not using, say,
6" polycarbonate sheet?

Thanks,
Rich



They DID use standard polycarbonate. They "paid" the factory boss by
giving him the chemical formula for transparent aluminum.
Scotty punches it all into the "quaint" computer and the boss says "it
will take years to study this matrix" Then Scotts answer is "Aye, but
you'll be rich beyond the dreams of avarice"

Have been a LONG time fan of Trek and many other science fiction.

--
Steve W.

Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:18:29 -0700, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:

I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...

I don't recall exactly; what was their reason for not using, say,
6" polycarbonate sheet?

Nobody would run the press release?

On Jul 30, 4:50*pm, "Steve W." wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:18:29 -0700, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:

I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...

I don't recall exactly; what was their reason for not using, say,
6" polycarbonate sheet?

Thanks,
Rich

They DID use standard polycarbonate. They "paid" the factory boss by
giving him the chemical formula for transparent aluminum.
Scotty punches it all into the "quaint" computer and the boss says "it
will take years to study this matrix" Then Scotts answer is "Aye, but
you'll be rich beyond the dreams of avarice"

Have been a LONG time fan of Trek and many other science fiction.

--
Steve W

The process described is closer to Larry Niven's mining tool that
neutralizes the charge on electrons, so the proton repulsion causes
the target material to explode violently.

jsw

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Larry The Snake Guy wrote:
I guess it's "interesting" in a way, but since there isn't even the
suggestion of a possibility of it remaining transparent without
constant application of large amounts of energy, I'm not sure there's
any use for this particular transformation (unless it has other
properties that make it useful in a physics lab).

It does remind me of the Star Trek movie they reference...where the
crew goes to great lengths, including changing the course of history
on earth, to obtain some "transparent aluminum"... Of course no one
ever explains why "normal" aluminum wouldn't have made a perfectly
sufficient whale tank other than the fact that it wouldn't have looked
as cool...


It's a work in process...
And likely will lead to (other) new knowledge - that will lead to new
principles and materials.

quotes:

For a brief period the sample looks and behaves in every way like a new form of
matter. In certain respects, the way it reacts is as though we had changed every
aluminum atom into silicon: it’s almost as surprising as finding that you can
turn lead into gold with light!

Transparent aluminum is just the start. The physical properties of the matter we
are creating are relevant to the conditions inside large planets, and we also
hope that by studying it we can gain a greater understanding of what is going on
during the creation of 'miniature stars' created by high-power laser implosions,
which may one day allow the power of nuclear fusion to be harnessed here on Earth



As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

tschus
pyotr

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see
the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzRziK-kZtQ

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.

Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)


Vulcan curse: Laugh Loud and Perspire.

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:14:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.

Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)

Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.
I've done woodworking with hand tools - no power tools at all. As
a hobby, it is fine. But you realize why power tools were invented.
And that extends to machine made nails vs the traditional hand
hammered ones.


tschus
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:14:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.

Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)

Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Ah reckon labor has gone up a mite since then.


I've done woodworking with hand tools - no power tools at all. As

Ditto here, and I'm a recovering Neanderthal.


a hobby, it is fine. But you realize why power tools were invented.
And that extends to machine made nails vs the traditional hand
hammered ones.

Ayup...and then some.

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby

On Aug 1, 6:34*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
...You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage. *...
-
pyotr filipivich

Your cash is trash???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius

jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:14:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see
the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.

Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)

Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Ah reckon labor has gone up a mite since then.


I've done woodworking with hand tools - no power tools at all. As

Ditto here, and I'm a recovering Neanderthal.


a hobby, it is fine. But you realize why power tools were invented.
And that extends to machine made nails vs the traditional hand
hammered ones.

Ayup...and then some.


Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time. They
were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they would
torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

How to make nails.

http://appalachiablacksmiths.com/Doc...ng%20Nails.doc

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:14:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or
about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to
see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.

Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)

Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Ah reckon labor has gone up a mite since then.


I've done woodworking with hand tools - no power tools at all. As

Ditto here, and I'm a recovering Neanderthal.


a hobby, it is fine. But you realize why power tools were invented.
And that extends to machine made nails vs the traditional hand
hammered ones.

Ayup...and then some.


Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time. They
were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they would
torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

When people do that today, it gets them 3 to 5 in the state pen. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:14:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that cavelamb on or
about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to
see the
whales! What fun would that be???

I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"

Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.

Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.

Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)

Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Ah reckon labor has gone up a mite since then.


I've done woodworking with hand tools - no power tools at all. As

Ditto here, and I'm a recovering Neanderthal.


a hobby, it is fine. But you realize why power tools were invented.
And that extends to machine made nails vs the traditional hand
hammered ones.

Ayup...and then some.


Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time.
They were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they
would torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

When people do that today, it gets them 3 to 5 in the state pen. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Only if they have insurance. Otherwise they get an air pollution fine.

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:48:25 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:
Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:14:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:32 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:
Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:43:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:41 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:
Let the Record show that cavelamb on or about
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:04 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
As for the Star Trek movie, regular aluminum wouldn't allow us to see the
whales! What fun would that be???
I still ask "Has the federation forgotten about Plexiglas?"
Yes, it's old hat. TA is so much more clear and strong that plexi was
retired many stardates ago.
Oh, sort of like asking for good old fashioned wrought iron nails.
Not quite, as those're still available.
http://www.fagansforge.com/store/car...&category_id=7
(My google fu is strong. It begat 444,000 hits)
Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Ah reckon labor has gone up a mite since then.

Cross cultural comparative cost is always the tricky part,
particularly when trying to do it in history. "Equivalent purchasing
power" is hard to figure when something isn't in one era. E.G.
computers, canned goods, stereos. Even then you have the problem of
Gizmo X was 100 credits in year Y, five years later were 105 credits,
but accomplished twice as much. (Computers, mobile phones, telegrams,
automobiles, etc,etc, ad nausm.)

From a lecture I heard on woodworking in the Middle Ages, pay
rates then were comparable to those today, but that iron cost like
silver and steel like gold. Hence it was more cost effective to hire
a master carpenter to cut 8 mortise and tenons an hour for
construction than to use nails.
In those days, it was the material cost which killed a budget.
Today, we have steel so "cheap" we make nails from it, and those so
plentiful we don't care. Now it is our labor costs which kill the
budget.
In "the old days", a 2x4 would be two inches by four inches, and
the side which would be seen would be smoothed at the worksite. Now,
all our 2x4s are not two inches by four inches, but they come from the
sawmill smoothed on all four sides - "just more efficient to do it
that way."
Sorry, I fall in to lecture mode too easily.

I've done woodworking with hand tools - no power tools at all. As
Ditto here, and I'm a recovering Neanderthal.

Well, we had Fire in our village. Neat stuff, long as you don't
get any on you.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Let the Record show that "Ed Huntress" on or
about Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:21:17 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


a hobby, it is fine. But you realize why power tools were invented.
And that extends to machine made nails vs the traditional hand
hammered ones.

Ayup...and then some.


Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time. They
were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they would
torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

When people do that today, it gets them 3 to 5 in the state pen. d8-)

Call the fire department, arraign for a "training burn". Fun for
the whole family and you can even bring marshmallows! If you bring
marshmallows, then it is a "cooking fire" - and exempt from the burn
ban, too! B-)

tschus
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Let the Record show that Jim Wilkins on or about
Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:55:11 -0700 (PDT) did write/type or cause to appear
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Aug 1, 6:34*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
...You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage. *...
-
pyotr filipivich

Your cash is trash???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius

Now I'm merely confused. Could you expand on your point so that I
could be confused at a higher level?


pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:22:14 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the Record show that Jim Wilkins on or about
Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:55:11 -0700 (PDT) did write/type or cause to appear
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Aug 1, 6:34*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
...You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage. *...
-
pyotr filipivich

Your cash is trash???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius

Now I'm merely confused. Could you expand on your point so that I
could be confused at a higher level?



I'll do it for him...

Detritus is trash (except in books by Terry Pratchett, in which Detritus is a
troll

Denarius was a Roman coin that morphed into the British Penny.
Also:-
Solidus was a Roman coin that morphed into the British Shilling.
Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine gold morphed into the British Pound.

Regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:23:15 +0100, Mark Rand wrote:


Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine gold morphed into the British Pound.


Bad form to reply to one's own posts but:-

Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine _silver_ morphed into the British
Pound.


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:04:40 -0700, the infamous "Calif Bill"
scrawled the following:

Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time. They
were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they would
torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

Yep. I've read about that many times and I still shake my head every
time. What a waste!

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:04:40 -0700, the infamous "Calif Bill"
scrawled the following:

Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time. They
were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they would
torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

Yep. I've read about that many times and I still shake my head every
time. What a waste!

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby

Wood was cheap, just took a lot of labor to saw enough wood for a house.
When you lack money, you put more sweat equity into a job.

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:17:19 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:23:15 +0100, Mark Rand wrote:


Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine gold morphed into the British Pound.


Bad form to reply to one's own posts but:-

Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine _silver_ morphed into the British
Pound.


Mark Rand
RTFM

what a sterling description!

Let the Record show that Mark Rand on or
about Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:17:19 +0100 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:23:15 +0100, Mark Rand wrote:


Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine gold morphed into the British Pound.


Bad form to reply to one's own posts but:-

Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine _silver_ morphed into the British
Pound.

As well as the Italia (and others) 'Lira'.


Mark Rand
RTFM
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Let the Record show that Larry Jaques
on or about Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:31:03 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:04:40 -0700, the infamous "Calif Bill"
scrawled the following:

Nails were made all winter by the blacksmith when he had spare time. They
were expensive then. When settlers picked up stakes and moved, they would
torch the house a lot of times and sift out the nails.

Yep. I've read about that many times and I still shake my head every
time. What a waste!

Robert Service wrote of building boats (for the rush into the
Yukon) and then burning the boats on the far side for the nails.
Expense of nails, expense of having to pack them in, it was 'cheaper'
to burn the boats and recover the ails than haul "extras".
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Actually, d derives from Denarius (the Roman "penny"). It was probably
more valuable than detritus back in those days. In medieval times, a
penny was a pretty substantial sum; much of a day's wage for many.

Joe

Let the Record show that Mark Rand on or
about Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:23:15 +0100 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:22:14 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the Record show that Jim Wilkins on or about
Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:55:11 -0700 (PDT) did write/type or cause to appear
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Aug 1, 6:34*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
...You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage. *...
-
pyotr filipivich

Your cash is trash???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius

Now I'm merely confused. Could you expand on your point so that I
could be confused at a higher level?



I'll do it for him...

Detritus is trash (except in books by Terry Pratchett, in which Detritus is a
troll

Denarius was a Roman coin that morphed into the British Penny.
Also:-
Solidus was a Roman coin that morphed into the British Shilling.
Librum was a pound weight. This, in fine gold morphed into the British Pound.


Arrrh - I just noticed the "typo." Comes from assuming the spell
checker with its itty bitty letters, has the right word.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Let the Record show that Joe on or about Tue,
04 Aug 2009 09:20:20 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:
Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Actually, d derives from Denarius (the Roman "penny"). It was probably
more valuable than detritus back in those days. In medieval times, a
penny was a pretty substantial sum; much of a day's wage for many.

"Smack!" I hate small letters in the spell checker.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:05:18 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the Record show that Joe on or about Tue,
04 Aug 2009 09:20:20 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:34:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:
Yeah, they're available. But would you want to use them to build
a house? I'm talking more about the cost. You know, the old "weight
in pounds per thousand equals the price each in pence[Detritus - hence
the d]" back when 10 pence was a fair wage.

Actually, d derives from Denarius (the Roman "penny"). It was probably
more valuable than detritus back in those days. In medieval times, a
penny was a pretty substantial sum; much of a day's wage for many.

"Smack!" I hate small letters in the spell checker.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Maybe you needed a classically educated spell chucker :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM