What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 10:28:22 -0700, Pilgrim wrote:

What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.


I just heat the pipe then the end of the valve, and let the solder run in.

But there's a neat thing I noticed when buying them at the big supplier.
If you get an untouched one out of the bin and turn the handle to "open" -
you hear a pop. I think they are pressure tested at the factory and that
is residual pressure "popping" out.

Make sure you're up to speed on soldering quickly. I only do this
occasionally and find my first couple are on the learning curve again. After
that, SOP except have a wet rag handy and cool the valve right down after
solder is just completed. Sweat valves are made to take some heat.

Karl

Heat the pipe only, and prep the joint for best possible wicking. As
soon as the solder flows, remove the heat and pour cold water on the valve.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

In addition to what everyone else said, please make sure
that you are soldering *dry* pipe. Open a valve at the
low end of the system and drain completely in the HAZ.
Roll up a paper towel and soak up the excess.

Crocus cloth and flux are your friends. Use both to excess.

When re-soldering an end cap on to wet pipe,
do not look at the end of the pipe with your remaining eye.

--Winston

--

Don't *faff*, dear.

On May 11, 10:28*am, Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Close the valve (or open fully) before applying heat; a half
open valve can dent the seal.
Don't heat the pipe first; most of the heat has to go to the
heavy part (the valve) not the pipe. The valve has to be hot
or the solder won't wick in.

My preference is to make both valve joints on a single heat.
You might want to dismount the handle, so it doesn't block your
flame or scorch.

Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.

Check with your local plumbing supplier for a brand called ez-sweat by
Watts . These are multi-piece units. The ends screw-off and inside are
copper pieces that look like top-hat bushings. Sweat those on, and
re-assemble and the heat never touches the ball assembly.

I found mine at the box stores initially then ordered them from a real
plumbing supply house when supply got spotty.

Good Luck

Jim Vrzal
Holiday, Fl.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:00:29 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

In addition to what everyone else said, please make sure
that you are soldering *dry* pipe. Open a valve at the
low end of the system and drain completely in the HAZ.
Roll up a paper towel and soak up the excess.

Crocus cloth and flux are your friends. Use both to excess.

When re-soldering an end cap on to wet pipe,
do not look at the end of the pipe with your remaining eye.

You forgot the DAMHIKT, Winnie.

--
No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up.
--Lily Tomlin

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:00:29 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.
In addition to what everyone else said, please make sure
that you are soldering *dry* pipe. Open a valve at the
low end of the system and drain completely in the HAZ.
Roll up a paper towel and soak up the excess.

Crocus cloth and flux are your friends. Use both to excess.

When re-soldering an end cap on to wet pipe,
do not look at the end of the pipe with your remaining eye.

You forgot the DAMHIKT, Winnie.

Oh, yeah!

DAMHIKT

--Patchy

Mawdeeb wrote:
Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to
sweat solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in
a plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.

Check with your local plumbing supplier for a brand called ez-sweat by
Watts . These are multi-piece units. The ends screw-off and inside are
copper pieces that look like top-hat bushings. Sweat those on, and
re-assemble and the heat never touches the ball assembly.

I found mine at the box stores initially then ordered them from a real
plumbing supply house when supply got spotty.

Good Luck

Jim Vrzal
Holiday, Fl.
Sounds an alternative to compression fittings. I have a compression ball
valve in the house that I need to replace as it weeps when turned on,
it's about 7 years old. I would be concerned that a soldered valve would
be a PITA when it came time to replace, I just have to turn the water
main off and swap the valve body I think, should be able to reuse the
compression nuts and olives.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 11:08:00 -0700, JR North
wrote:
Pilgrim wrote:

What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Heat the pipe only, and prep the joint for best possible wicking. As
soon as the solder flows, remove the heat and pour cold water on the valve.

He's going to get a cold solder joint and a leak if he does that...

You have to wait a bit for the solder to properly cool a bit and
solidify or crystallize - you can use a spray bottle set to Mist and
just a bit of water - give a quick spritz and let it cool a few
seconds, then another little squirt, another ten seonds.

Once it gets down below the 'instant flash into steam' stage and into
the 'drops sizzle when sprayed' stage THEN you can hit it hard with
the water to cool it down the rest of the way.

If you take the handle off, make sure the valve is aligned right
before you sweat it in. No fun when the handle hits something and
can't make the full 90-degree arc, then you have to either heat it up
again and adjust it, or modify the handle.

-- Bruce --

In article
,
Pilgrim wrote:

What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.


If it's a sweat fitting valve and not obviously easily disassembled,
it's teflon and should not be bothered by soldering, if you do it
properly. Wrap a damp rag around the middle if you like, but mostly
apply heat to the fittings, not the middle, and don't overheat - teflon
is fine at molten solder temperatures. Solder with it open. Apply enough
solder, not a vast excess, particularly if it's mounted in a vertical
run of pipe.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Mon, 11 May 2009 23:01:41 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Mawdeeb wrote:
Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to
sweat solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in
a plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.

Check with your local plumbing supplier for a brand called ez-sweat by
Watts . These are multi-piece units. The ends screw-off and inside are
copper pieces that look like top-hat bushings. Sweat those on, and
re-assemble and the heat never touches the ball assembly.

I found mine at the box stores initially then ordered them from a real
plumbing supply house when supply got spotty.

Good Luck

Jim Vrzal
Holiday, Fl.
Sounds an alternative to compression fittings. I have a compression ball
valve in the house that I need to replace as it weeps when turned on,
it's about 7 years old. I would be concerned that a soldered valve would
be a PITA when it came time to replace, I just have to turn the water
main off and swap the valve body I think, should be able to reuse the
compression nuts and olives.
Dunno, but maybe I was just plain lucky (or stupid) when I replaced
the kitchen cabinets last fall. I cut off the old valves, cleaned the
pipe and soldered on the new ball valves (two pointing up, one
horizontal), no special technique except to use a "Turbo Torch" fed
from a 20# barbeque tank - I hate the little 14 oz. bottles when doing
serious work.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

In article nc, JR North wrote:
Heat the pipe only,

Wrong. Heat the *fitting* only. Heating only the pipe expands the pipe more
than it expands the fitting, reducing the space available for solder to wick
into the joint, and also makes the joint more likely to crack as it cools.

and prep the joint for best possible wicking. As
soon as the solder flows, remove the heat

Wrong again. Continue heating until the solder has been sucked into the entire
joint.

and pour cold water on the valve.

Wrong yet again. Doing so can crack the solder joint. Allow it to cool on its
own.

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...

snip---- Wrap a damp rag around the middle if you like, but mostly
apply heat to the fittings, not the middle, and don't overheat

Yep!

I not only plumbed our entire new house, but I built the control panels and
manifold assemblies for the hydronic heating system. I've (successfully)
soldered more than 100 valves with no problems. I strongly support the
small strip of cloth, wet, wrapped around the body of the valve, away from
the two ends, which must achieve molten solder temperatures in order to
assure a fully soldered joint.

I have used both silver bearing (3-1/2%) and non-leaded solders---made by
Harris. I highly recommend them over the others, especially Oatey, which I
found to fill and run poorly. Use Bridgit for common
plumbing-----Stay-Brite for heating systems.

Clean the bores of the valves well with a stainless brush, and the ends of
the pipe with strip abrasive. Flux sparingly, but totally. Use an acid
brush. Use water soluble flux for easy cleanup. When the solder has
solidified, wipe down both ends of the valve with a wet rag, which will cool
and clean the solder joints perfectly. Do not disturb the joints until the
solder has set.

Harold

I have used both silver bearing (3-1/2%) and non-leaded solders---made by
Harris. I highly recommend them over the others, especially Oatey, which I
found to fill and run poorly.

I found that I can get an acceptable joint with the Oatey stuff with
silver in it, but their tin-antimony no-lead stuff works too hot for a
regular propane torch (it might be fine with acetylene, it's not been
worth my time to find out).
--Glenn Lyford

In article , Glenn Lyford wrote:
I have used both silver bearing (3-1/2%) and non-leaded solders---made by
Harris. I highly recommend them over the others, especially Oatey, which I
found to fill and run poorly.

I found that I can get an acceptable joint with the Oatey stuff with
silver in it, but their tin-antimony no-lead stuff works too hot for a
regular propane torch (it might be fine with acetylene, it's not been
worth my time to find out).

Don't know about acetylene, but it's fine with a standard plumber's MAPP
torch. It can be used with a propane torch, too, but it takes a looooong time.

Some of the best money I ever spent on a tool was the forty bucks it cost me
to get a MAPP torch. Make a dozen sweat joints with a MAPP torch, and you'll
never go back to propane. (It takes six or eight joints before you realize
just how *fast* that sucker heats the fittings -- just a few seconds on
half-inch pipe, only a bit longer on three-quarter. After three or four more
joints at a few seconds each, you'll be hooked.)

Mawdeeb wrote:

Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.

Check with your local plumbing supplier for a brand called ez-sweat by
Watts . These are multi-piece units. The ends screw-off and inside are
copper pieces that look like top-hat bushings. Sweat those on, and
re-assemble and the heat never touches the ball assembly.

I found mine at the box stores initially then ordered them from a real
plumbing supply house when supply got spotty.

Or just use ball valves with threaded fittings. Sweat threaded adapters on
to the existing plumbing, let them cool then screw on the valve.

In order to tighten both fittings on the valve, leave the last sweated joint
a few feet away from the valve until its all tightened up so you have
someplace to turn the fittings. Or use a union.

--
Paul Hovnanian
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

On May 12, 7:53*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Glenn Lyford wrote:

I have used both silver bearing (3-1/2%) and non-leaded solders---made by
Harris. I highly recommend them over the others, especially Oatey, which I
found to fill and run poorly.

I found that I can get an acceptable joint with the Oatey stuff with
silver in it, but their tin-antimony no-lead stuff works too hot for a
regular propane torch (it might be fine with acetylene, it's not been
worth my time to find out).

Don't know about acetylene, but it's fine with a standard plumber's MAPP
torch. It can be used with a propane torch, too, but it takes a looooong time.

Some of the best money I ever spent on a tool was the forty bucks it cost me
to get a MAPP torch. Make a dozen sweat joints with a MAPP torch, and you'll
never go back to propane. (It takes six or eight joints before you realize
just how *fast* that sucker heats the fittings -- just a few seconds on
half-inch pipe, only a bit longer on three-quarter. After three or four more
joints at a few seconds each, you'll be hooked.)

I've got one, I've just not had to do any plumbing since I got it.
Try the solder with a little silver in it, melts at a lower heat so
you're not cooking the heck out of your fittings, flows super easy, I
bet it's a joy even with the mapp torch.
--Glenn Lyford

"Glenn Lyford" wrote in message
...
I have used both silver bearing (3-1/2%) and non-leaded solders---made by
Harris. I highly recommend them over the others, especially Oatey, which
I
found to fill and run poorly.

I found that I can get an acceptable joint with the Oatey stuff with
silver in it, but their tin-antimony no-lead stuff works too hot for a
regular propane torch (it might be fine with acetylene, it's not been
worth my time to find out).
--Glenn Lyford

If you haven't tried the Harris Stay-Brite, I recommend you give it a go.
The first control panel I built for my hydronic heating system was for the
shop. I used the Oatey (silver bearing) solder for that and had a real
struggle with the stuff. My second purchase was the Harris solder, with
which I made the distribution manifolds. It worked so much better that I
ordered a third roll so I could complete the panel for the house, which is
now finished. I'm sold on the stuff. Truly better than the Oatey.

Also, the Harris Bridgit seems to flow and fill better than the Oatey I used
for general plumbing. I have a 1" main, then it branches out to 3/4" and
1/2" pipe, so it's been tested on all sizes. Could be my technique, but I
didn't like the Oatey at all.

I am using a Turbo Torch for all my joints. I'm soldering up to 1-1/4" pipe
and valves with the thing. Haven't tried MAPP, but I can't imagine much of
an improvement over the Turbo Torch. Excellent little torch.

Usual disclaimer---I am not affiliated with Oatey, Harris or Victor (makes
the Turbo Torch).

Harold

On Mon, 11 May 2009 10:28:22 -0700, Pilgrim
wrote:

What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck P.
I just had to do this several times a few months ago. I cleaned the
valve and pipe well with a wire brush made for the job, used plenty of
flux, and heated the joint quickly. I use an air/acetylene torch for
plumbing work because it's so fast. Make sure the torch you use is big
enough for the job. Heating the joint fast and getting the solder in
quickly gives the heat less time to travel to the rest of the valve.
The brass that the valve is made of transmits heat much slower than
pure copper so this is why fast heating is best.
ERS

Dunno, but maybe I was just plain lucky (or stupid) when I replaced
the kitchen cabinets last fall. I cut off the old valves, cleaned the
pipe and soldered on the new ball valves (two pointing up, one
horizontal), no special technique except to use a "Turbo Torch" fed
from a 20# barbeque tank - I hate the little 14 oz. bottles when doing
serious work.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Was recommended by a plumber to never a put valve in a horizontal orientation
if you can help it. Horizontal orientation allows sediment to settle in the
valve and can result in binding or less-than-full closure. Vertical
orientation always results in sediment falling to the bottom of the vertical
run.

FYI,
--
John English

In article .net, wrote:

Was recommended by a plumber to never a put valve in a horizontal orientation
if you can help it. Horizontal orientation allows sediment to settle in the
valve and can result in binding or less-than-full closure. Vertical
orientation always results in sediment falling to the bottom of the vertical
run.

That's just silly. If there's enough sediment in your water for that to be a
concern, you should be filtering it where it enters the house.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 11:25:47 -0700, John E.
wrote:

Dunno, but maybe I was just plain lucky (or stupid) when I replaced
the kitchen cabinets last fall. I cut off the old valves, cleaned the
pipe and soldered on the new ball valves (two pointing up, one
horizontal), no special technique except to use a "Turbo Torch" fed
from a 20# barbeque tank - I hate the little 14 oz. bottles when doing
serious work.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Was recommended by a plumber to never a put valve in a horizontal orientation
if you can help it. Horizontal orientation allows sediment to settle in the
valve and can result in binding or less-than-full closure. Vertical
orientation always results in sediment falling to the bottom of the vertical
run.

FYI,
Sounds reasonable
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Wed, 13 May 2009 18:39:43 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article .net, wrote:

Was recommended by a plumber to never a put valve in a horizontal orientation
if you can help it. Horizontal orientation allows sediment to settle in the
valve and can result in binding or less-than-full closure. Vertical
orientation always results in sediment falling to the bottom of the vertical
run.

That's just silly. If there's enough sediment in your water for that to be a
concern, you should be filtering it where it enters the house.
Got any Iron pipe in your house?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

In article , Gerald Miller wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009 18:39:43 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article .net,
wrote:

Was recommended by a plumber to never a put valve in a horizontal orientation

if you can help it. Horizontal orientation allows sediment to settle in the
valve and can result in binding or less-than-full closure. Vertical
orientation always results in sediment falling to the bottom of the vertical
run.

That's just silly. If there's enough sediment in your water for that to be a
concern, you should be filtering it where it enters the house.
Got any Iron pipe in your house?

Actually, no. All the supply lines are copper; the drains are copper and
plastic. I've had homes with steel pipe, though -- and never, ever saw a
problem with sediment causing a valve to bind.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:17:51 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On May 11, 10:28*am, Pilgrim wrote:
What do I need to know and what precautions do i need to take to sweat
solder a 1/4 turn ball valve in 3/4" Cu pipe? The ball turns in a
plastic seat that looks like teflon.

Close the valve (or open fully) before applying heat; a half
open valve can dent the seal.

What he said, a 1/2 open valve will destory the seals. Do not operate
the valve untill fully cooled.

Don't heat the pipe first; most of the heat has to go to the
heavy part (the valve) not the pipe. The valve has to be hot
or the solder won't wick in.

Again dead on, heat enough for the solder to flow, but don't over heat
it.


My preference is to make both valve joints on a single heat.
You might want to dismount the handle, so it doesn't block your
flame or scorch.

More good advice.
Thank You,
Randy

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