Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

wrote in message
...
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

I might be misunderstanding here, but have you read all the eBay bidding
instructions?

If someone bids an amount that is a great deal larger than the current bid,
it will only raise the current bid enough to beat the highest standing bid,
and hold the difference in reserve. This allows you to post the greatest
amount you are willing to pay for an item, but still not pay more the just a
small margin more than the SECOND highest bidder.

Take fifteen minutes or so to review the bidding tutorial. Although it seems
strange to a beginner, it's very handy after you get the hang of it.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:18:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

There's a whole bunch of reasons - most likely the "another bidder
appears" is a bid placed through a monitoring proxy bidding service.
The original one was eSnipe, there have to be others by now.

If nobody bids on the item, the eSnipe program charges in in the
last thitry seconds and bids the minimum to get past the reserve, or a
ridiculously low price if there's no reserve. And if there's another
bidder or sniper out there, the programs can fight it out till time is
up or limits are reached.

Item I: When you put in your max bid of $66, you probably placed an
immediate one of $20 or $30. They tried sniping till they hit the
other buyer's limit of $48, and when you notched over their limit by
going to $48.99 the program hit it's stop point of $48 and let you
have it.

And some sellers gladly shill the hell out of their own auctions, even
though it's against the rules. Because they have maybe $10 invested
in an item worth $100 "Street Price" - but the MSRP List Price is $200
and some people don't question it.

It's worth the risk to shill up the price if they can get some sucker
that doesn't know what the item is worth to pay $200 or more for it...

Worst case the shill goes past your limit, and the seller has to "Buy
it from themselves" to complete the illusion and eat the fees. But
they can give themselves positive feedback, so it isn't all bad.

And now you know why I stay far, far away. Den of thieves. If
their worst fault was only "Honest Al Babin" I'd deal there, at least
he was easy to spot.

-- Bruce --

"DoN. Nichols" writes:

When I (really my wife is doing the bidding since she has the
account, I am simply doing the selecting and providing the money) am
interested in something, I decide what it is worth to me -- usually
with a bit of a fudge factor to make sure that I am above people bidding
an even amount), and try to get that bid in as close to the last minute
as practical with the current net response time. If someone else wants
it also, and puts in a bid of what *they* are willing to pay for it,
then it is a toss-up as to which of us will get it. Whoever wants it
more (as measured by our bids) will get it -- unless someone starts the
bidding early and gets in a bidding war with someone else who also
starts early, and often enough winds up paying more for it than *new*
price. In a bidding war, the only winner is the vendor. The low bidder
is a loser in that he did not get what he wanted, and the high bidder is
a loser in that he paid more than was reasonable for it.

I use a sniping tool called jbidwatcher. I decide what the item is
worth to me, set a snipe to go off a few seconds before the auction
expiration, and try not to think about it until after the expiration.

I recently got a cylindrical slide rule -- I was second bidder for
something like half a dozen of them before I finally won. And I got
one in basically "new" condition for quite a bit less than one of the
people who'd beat me got a terribly beat up one a couple of weeks
earlier. That's the way the game works....

wrote in message
...
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.

Best Regards
Tom.

" wrote:

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

If you bid on something that someone else has bid on, they set a limit and ebay will
automatically increase the bid by some increment. I think there is a place in bid history
that will show all the bids if multiple proxies are at war with each other.

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

I'm sure that happens from time to time. The trick is to bid what it is worth to you and
no more. Another deal is coming down the road on most things if you have patience.

The other night, I was bidding on an item that I knew was non functional but it had
components that I could use right now and it was something I have a good chance of
repairing. For nearly 6 days, no bids other than my initial bid. Then late in the game,
two people bid on it. A 2 and a 5, iow, a guy that has made 2 purchases and one that has
made 5. I groaned, likely two people that have not read the offer closely and were
bidding thinking likely that it was functional.

This item was first listed as functional but when I asked the seller some questions, he
powered it up again and it didn't work. He canceled the first auction and relisted it as
not tested, as is, no return. Ebay speak, don't expect much.

Well these people got to $0.01 of my bid and stopped. I went to bed and when I awoke, I
had won the bid.

Ebay is not a perfect analog of auction with people and and an auctioner. For example if
you put down 50 dollars as your max bid, the price is currently at 14 and you see
something else you would like to bid on. You can't hold your previous bid at 14 and stop
there. That 50 you put down is at risk until the end of bidding. That part ****es me
off. I'm fully willing to stand by what the bid is up to the moment I decide maybe there
is something else worth putting my money into. So never bid high to guarantee getting
something. You can't turn it off and if an idiot is bidding, you are screwed.


Wes

"Elliot G" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

I might be misunderstanding here, but have you read all the eBay bidding
instructions?

If someone bids an amount that is a great deal larger than the current
bid, it will only raise the current bid enough to beat the highest
standing bid, and hold the difference in reserve. This allows you to post
the greatest amount you are willing to pay for an item, but still not pay
more the just a small margin more than the SECOND highest bidder.

Take fifteen minutes or so to review the bidding tutorial. Although it
seems strange to a beginner, it's very handy after you get the hang of it.

First lesson to learn on ebay is that no matter what it is, there will be
another one along soon. Figure out what you will pay, and you will probably
eventually get one. Also, learn how to use the advanced search and
completed items to get an idea of what that item commonly sells for. After
that, it is a waiting game. And watch for misspelled items or
underdescribed items. I filled out my clamp collection with "vice grips".
Got a lot of them dirt cheap.

Steve

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.


I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week. The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last 2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:20:36 -0800, "Stupendous Man"
wrote:

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.


I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week. The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last 2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.

I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I
want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an
identical item for less money in the end.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

"Randy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:20:36 -0800, "Stupendous Man"
wrote:

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.


I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week.
The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last 2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go
just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.

I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I
want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an
identical item for less money in the end.

Thank You,
Randy

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.

"ATP*" wrote:

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.

Well if it is worth 100 and just getting the thing bought rather than wasting time looking
for it makes you go 110 then maybe that makes sense.

As far as pulling the item, a bid, unless something has changed doesn't stop a seller from
pulling it. I've bid on things where the seller sold it privately and yanked it. That
p*ss*s me off. If I'm committing to by, the seller should be committing to sell.

No fing way am I doing a second chance. Smells like shill. Relist it, I'll take my
chances.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Randy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:20:36 -0800, "Stupendous Man"
wrote:

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.


I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week.
The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last
2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money
for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go
just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.

I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I
want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an
identical item for less money in the end.

Thank You,
Randy

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may
pull the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.

The answers is yes, no, definitely, and maybe. I used a snipe program in my
later ebay experience. One day, an Oilfield Trash belt buckle came on, a
nice one with the box and paperwork and all. I wanted it, and would have
paid $50 for it. I put in a snipe for $50. I got it for $4. No one else
wanted it bad or bid on it.

You're right about bidding early, or bidding more than you wish to pay. I
found sniping the best way to go when I couldn't be at a computer when it
came off, and got several items at good prices or very cheap. Some were
antique post cards from the old west circa 1900. Stamps and handwritten
messages and all. But I'd put the max I'd pay on bidnapper, and more times
I got it than not. And the ones I lost went for way more than they were
worth. Someone somewhere just wanted them badly. I have a good collection
of some really good stuff, and I bought every one of them cheap.

Steve

"Wes" wrote in message
news
"ATP*" wrote:

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may
pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.

Well if it is worth 100 and just getting the thing bought rather than
wasting time looking
for it makes you go 110 then maybe that makes sense.

in that case it is worth 110 to you, or you are caught up in a frenzied
quest to acquire that particular item...

As far as pulling the item, a bid, unless something has changed doesn't
stop a seller from
pulling it. I've bid on things where the seller sold it privately and
yanked it. That
p*ss*s me off. If I'm committing to by, the seller should be committing
to sell.

No fing way am I doing a second chance. Smells like shill. Relist it,
I'll take my
chances.

Wes
--
Unfortunately, the committment on Ebay is only one way, which is another
good reason to snipe. Second chance offers make sense when the seller has
more than one item available.

On 2009-02-17, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" writes:

When I (really my wife is doing the bidding since she has the
account, I am simply doing the selecting and providing the money) am
interested in something, I decide what it is worth to me -- usually
with a bit of a fudge factor to make sure that I am above people bidding
an even amount), and try to get that bid in as close to the last minute
as practical with the current net response time.

[ ... ]

I use a sniping tool called jbidwatcher. I decide what the item is
worth to me, set a snipe to go off a few seconds before the auction
expiration, and try not to think about it until after the expiration.

Great! I tried another sniping tool some years ago, and it
failed me when eBay played games with the format close to the last
minute. Not long after that, the author gave up trying to keep track of
eBay's changes. I suspect that it might be easier to make it more
adaptable in java, which jbidwatcher is written in -- which also means
that it happily runs in my Solaris as well as the more "popular" OS's.

I recently got a cylindrical slide rule -- I was second bidder for
something like half a dozen of them before I finally won. And I got
one in basically "new" condition for quite a bit less than one of the
people who'd beat me got a terribly beat up one a couple of weeks
earlier. That's the way the game works....

Indeed so. I once got a nice set of Tri-Mikes (forget whether
it was a three-mike or a four-mike set) which was one of two almost
identical sets up for auction at the same time. One was wonderfully
photographed, wonderfully described, and was going to close later. The
other has poorer photos (though good enough to tell me that the set had
a more complete set of wrenches), a much less elaborate description
(they assumed that you knew what it was, or you would not be bidding on
it), and closed sooner.

At the time of the close of the first auction, it was about
$200.00 less than the fancy description one, and we got it. The other
kept going up over the next two hours, and eventually closed for
something like $350.00 more -- for a slightly less complete set.

So -- you neve know -- but it helps to know what you are bidding
on, and not to depend too strongly on the descriptions and photos. (The
one which went really high has the feel (in memory) of a Reliable Tools
auction. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-02-17, SteveB wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-17, wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275

No -- the winner *actually* probably bid something like
$1500.00, and the minimum bid increment was $25.00, so eBay's proxy
bidding system bid the minimum increment over your bid. If your bid had
been higher, either his would have been $25.00 over what you bid, or
your bid would have been higher than his maximum bid and you would have
won it.

[ ... ]

New to ebay, eh?

I thought that he had been around for a while, but perhaps he
has been posting on metalworking (or perhaps politics, but not too much
or I would have him killfiled), and has just recently gotten into trying
to get things seriously via eBay. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense.

I thought i explained it clearly enough without giving up my edge.

Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may
pull the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.

Keep thinking that, while i watch snipers fail to buy what they want.
Second chances are sucker bets.

wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?
Well, if he does, then he's paying eBay a lot of
fees to list and sell stuff back to HIMSELF. That
isn't much of a game, is it? Sniping is a big
game, and quite annoying, there must be some guys
who get a real hoot out of doing it. But, I
believe that there are real bidders doing most of
this sniping. There are programs you can buy that
will sit on your computer and do the sniping
automatically for you, always with just a couple
seconds to go. On a few items that I really
wanted, I've actually done it myself (manually)
and sometimes it works. Sometimes my fingers or
the net are too slow, and I get the last bid in
too late.

Jon

Wes writes:

"ATP*" wrote:

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.

Well if it is worth 100 and just getting the thing bought rather
than wasting time looking for it makes you go 110 then maybe that
makes sense.

No, in that case the complete "package" -- the item, and not wasting
time -- is worth 110. I've bought many items with Buy It Now that I
might well have gotten for less on the auction, since the item was,
when it came right down to it, was worth that much to me and I didn't
want to screw around.

In a way I'm agreeing with you -- "it makes sense". Where I'm
disagreeing is that obviously the item was worth that much, 'cause you
were willing to pay it.

As far as pulling the item, a bid, unless something has changed
doesn't stop a seller from pulling it. I've bid on things where the
seller sold it privately and yanked it. That p*ss*s me off. If I'm
committing to by, the seller should be committing to sell.

No fing way am I doing a second chance. Smells like shill. Relist
it, I'll take my chances.

Not something I've actually run into on anything I've bought -- but
I agree completely.

"DoN. Nichols" writes:

On 2009-02-17, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" writes:

When I (really my wife is doing the bidding since she has the
account, I am simply doing the selecting and providing the money) am
interested in something, I decide what it is worth to me -- usually
with a bit of a fudge factor to make sure that I am above people bidding
an even amount), and try to get that bid in as close to the last minute
as practical with the current net response time.

[ ... ]

I use a sniping tool called jbidwatcher. I decide what the item is
worth to me, set a snipe to go off a few seconds before the auction
expiration, and try not to think about it until after the expiration.

Great! I tried another sniping tool some years ago, and it
failed me when eBay played games with the format close to the last
minute. Not long after that, the author gave up trying to keep track of
eBay's changes. I suspect that it might be easier to make it more
adaptable in java, which jbidwatcher is written in -- which also means
that it happily runs in my Solaris as well as the more "popular" OS's.

In fairness, jbidwatcher went through a period when it was useless for
exactly that reason. I'm not clear on whether somebody else is
maintaining it now, or if the author caught up and ebay hasn't played
silly games for a while, but it's worked for me.

I sort of wonder why ebay hasn't published an API. It isn't like
sniping is uncommon, or like they're playing games frequently enough
to be seriously trying to defeat the snipes.

I say this without researching if they've actually published an API
since I last checked...

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:00:51 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?
Well, if he does, then he's paying eBay a lot of
fees to list and sell stuff back to HIMSELF. That
isn't much of a game, is it? Sniping is a big
game, and quite annoying, there must be some guys
who get a real hoot out of doing it. But, I
believe that there are real bidders doing most of
this sniping. There are programs you can buy that
will sit on your computer and do the sniping
automatically for you, always with just a couple
seconds to go. On a few items that I really
wanted, I've actually done it myself (manually)
and sometimes it works. Sometimes my fingers or
the net are too slow, and I get the last bid in
too late.

Jon
And if the previous high bidder is a proxy bid his proxy will beat
your snipe every time unless you bid over his max.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-17, wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275

No -- the winner *actually* probably bid something like
$1500.00, and the minimum bid increment was $25.00, so eBay's proxy
bidding system bid the minimum increment over your bid. If your bid had
been higher, either his would have been $25.00 over what you bid, or
your bid would have been higher than his maximum bid and you would have
won it.

snip---

Pretty much what DoN said, but be advised that if there are two bids, only
cents apart, the high bid wins. Susan beat out a person by three cents on a
piece of Tiffany glass. It's not common, but it happens. High bid wins.

Harold

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:50:36 -0500, the infamous
scrawled the following:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:00:51 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?
Well, if he does, then he's paying eBay a lot of
fees to list and sell stuff back to HIMSELF. That
isn't much of a game, is it? Sniping is a big
game, and quite annoying, there must be some guys
who get a real hoot out of doing it. But, I
believe that there are real bidders doing most of
this sniping. There are programs you can buy that
will sit on your computer and do the sniping
automatically for you, always with just a couple
seconds to go. On a few items that I really
wanted, I've actually done it myself (manually)
and sometimes it works. Sometimes my fingers or
the net are too slow, and I get the last bid in
too late.

Jon
And if the previous high bidder is a proxy bid his proxy will beat
your snipe every time unless you bid over his max.

True. The key is to snipe (late) so the price isn't incremented up
during the whole auction. Incrementing triples or quadruples the price
even if there _is_ no high proxy bidder. Sniping removes the
one-upmanship game in auctions. Eez gud schtuffs, Maynard.

What sniping software do you guys use? I'm still doing it manually.

--
I'm still waiting for another sublime, transcendent flash of adequacy.
--Winnie of RCM

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:58:26 GMT, the infamous "Harold and Susan
Vordos" scrawled the following:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-17, wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275

No -- the winner *actually* probably bid something like
$1500.00, and the minimum bid increment was $25.00, so eBay's proxy
bidding system bid the minimum increment over your bid. If your bid had
been higher, either his would have been $25.00 over what you bid, or
your bid would have been higher than his maximum bid and you would have
won it.

snip---

Pretty much what DoN said, but be advised that if there are two bids, only
cents apart, the high bid wins. Susan beat out a person by three cents on a
piece of Tiffany glass. It's not common, but it happens. High bid wins.

Did you two ever receive justice regarding that expensive bogus piece
a few years ago? What was it, $1,200 or something? Ouch!

--
I'm still waiting for another sublime, transcendent flash of adequacy.
--Winnie of RCM

Harold sez:

"Pretty much what DoN said, but be advised that if there are two bids, only
cents apart, the high bid wins. Susan beat out a person by three cents on a
piece of Tiffany glass. It's not common, but it happens. High bid wins."

Harold, I hope in some way Susan's successful bid heped make up for the scrape you got into with the
Florida crooks some years ago.

Bob Swinney

On 2009-02-18, Robert Swinney wrote:
Harold sez:

"Pretty much what DoN said, but be advised that if there are two bids, only
cents apart, the high bid wins. Susan beat out a person by three cents on a
piece of Tiffany glass. It's not common, but it happens. High bid wins."

I beat some bidders by zero cents.

i

Harold, I hope in some way Susan's successful bid heped make up for the scrape you got into with the
Florida crooks some years ago.

Bob Swinney




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In article ,
"ATP*" wrote:

Second chance offers make sense when the seller has
more than one item available.

...."Second chance offers" may also mean that the high bidder was the
seller's shill, doing just a bit too well at cranking the price up,
which is why I suggest declining them. As for multiple items, there's a
whole messy category just for handling those, without second chances.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:50:36 -0500, the infamous
scrawled the following:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:00:51 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?
Well, if he does, then he's paying eBay a lot of
fees to list and sell stuff back to HIMSELF. That
isn't much of a game, is it? Sniping is a big
game, and quite annoying, there must be some guys
who get a real hoot out of doing it. But, I
believe that there are real bidders doing most of
this sniping. There are programs you can buy that
will sit on your computer and do the sniping
automatically for you, always with just a couple
seconds to go. On a few items that I really
wanted, I've actually done it myself (manually)
and sometimes it works. Sometimes my fingers or
the net are too slow, and I get the last bid in
too late.

Jon
And if the previous high bidder is a proxy bid his proxy will beat
your snipe every time unless you bid over his max.

True. The key is to snipe (late) so the price isn't incremented up
during the whole auction. Incrementing triples or quadruples the price
even if there _is_ no high proxy bidder. Sniping removes the
one-upmanship game in auctions. Eez gud schtuffs, Maynard.

What sniping software do you guys use? I'm still doing it manually.

--
Auctionstealer

On 2009-02-18, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2009-02-17, wrote:
Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275

No -- the winner *actually* probably bid something like
$1500.00, and the minimum bid increment was $25.00, so eBay's proxy
bidding system bid the minimum increment over your bid. If your bid had
been higher, either his would have been $25.00 over what you bid, or
your bid would have been higher than his maximum bid and you would have
won it.

snip---

Pretty much what DoN said, but be advised that if there are two bids, only
cents apart, the high bid wins. Susan beat out a person by three cents on a
piece of Tiffany glass. It's not common, but it happens. High bid wins.

That only works when the three cents higher bid (hers, in this
case) is earlier than the lower one. Otherwise, it would have had to be
over by the minimum bid increment.

For that matter. if the other bidder's maximum is less than
the minimum increment above her actual bid, the fact that he bid more
than she (later than she) won't do it -- she will still win.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-02-18, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
... Susan beat out a person by three cents on a
piece of Tiffany glass. ... High bid wins.

That only works when the three cents higher bid (hers, in this
case) is earlier than the lower one. Otherwise, it would have had to be
over by the minimum bid increment. ...

Not necessarily: if the current bid is $10 & his max is $15, if I bid
$15.03 I win. My $15.03 is more than the minimum over the current $10 &
greater than his max of $15.

Bob

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:49:41 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote:


"Randy" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:20:36 -0800, "Stupendous Man"
wrote:

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.


I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week.
The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last 2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go
just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.

I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I
want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an
identical item for less money in the end.

Thank You,
Randy

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.


Bidding early works for me because I usually get busy and totally
forget about the item until its ended. I have other things to do
other than watch ebay all day.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Randy wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:49:41 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:20:36 -0800, "Stupendous Man"
wrote:

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.

I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week.
The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last 2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go
just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.
I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I
want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an
identical item for less money in the end.

Thank You,
Randy

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.


Bidding early works for me because I usually get busy and totally
forget about the item until its ended. I have other things to do
other than watch ebay all day.

Thank You,
Randy

You should be using a sniping program.

"Randy" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:49:41 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote:


"Randy" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:20:36 -0800, "Stupendous Man"
wrote:

Place your maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ends.
No time for shill bids or snipers to react and jack the price.


I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week.
The
auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last
2
minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high
bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money
for
me and got nothing.
When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go
just
a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never
have to wonder if another $ would have done it.

I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I
want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an
identical item for less money in the end.

Thank You,
Randy

Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That
makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a
possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may
pull
the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.


Bidding early works for me because I usually get busy and totally
forget about the item until its ended. I have other things to do
other than watch ebay all day.

Thank You,
Randy

ISP's have hiccups, like anything else. A bid sent in three seconds before
the end may not get there in time. Bidding early with your maximum bid is
senseless, as it drives up the price. A snipe works best because it DOES go
in the last few seconds because of their superior connection, and you'll
either get it for what you want to pay or less.

imho, ymmv, and all that

Steve

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

The 10th data point is in:

j) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50


What does it all mean about rec.crafts.metalworking?
I am not drawing posts from code breakers.
If the most likely number of bids is 0, then we should be able to have
some bids of 1, given sample of 10.

On 2009-02-19, SteveB wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Bidding early works for me because I usually get busy and totally
forget about the item until its ended. I have other things to do
other than watch ebay all day.

[ ... ]

ISP's have hiccups, like anything else. A bid sent in three seconds before
the end may not get there in time. Bidding early with your maximum bid is
senseless, as it drives up the price. A snipe works best because it DOES go
in the last few seconds because of their superior connection, and you'll
either get it for what you want to pay or less.

That depends. If you are running the sniping program on your
own system, it is still vulnerable to the hiccups of the connection.

And *I* will not use a sniping site rather than a program on my
own computer, because it puts your username and password in the hands of
the people running the sniping site. (And vulnerable to any security
holes in their site if someone should decide to attack that site to
collect a bunch of username/password pairs.)

For that matter -- I suspect that using a sniping site *would*
be a violation of the policy agreement you "signed" when you joined
eBay, because you promise to keep control of your username/password
pair. If you hand it to a sniping site, you have violated that part of
the agreement, and eBay can justifiably kick you off.

Using a program on your own computer, however, or sniping
manually are totally outside that limitation.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-02-19, wrote:
a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

The 10th data point is in:

j) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50


What does it all mean about rec.crafts.metalworking?
I am not drawing posts from code breakers.
If the most likely number of bids is 0, then we should be able to have
some bids of 1, given sample of 10.

The sample is skewed by the fact that these are things which
attracted *your* interest enough to bid -- and someone else is likely to
have very similar interests. So -- your own interest is a
pre-selection. It has already moved the auction out of the zero bids
category. Something which *you* are interested in is likely to be
something which many in this newsgroup are interested in.

The zero bids are things which did not attract *anyone*.

Now -- if you took your sample with randomly selected eBay
auction numbers which you did not bother to determine whether they were
of interest to you until *after* they were selected for the statistic,
then you could have more reasonable statistics. Go for 100 auctions,
and of those, pick ten which you will bid (a small amount) on even
though they are not of interest to you, and see whether they have
similar statistics.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Feb 19, 5:54*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2009-02-19, wrote:



a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

The 10th data point is in:

j) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50

What does it all mean about rec.crafts.metalworking?
I am not drawing posts from code breakers.
If the most likely number of bids is 0, then we should be able to have
some bids of 1, given sample of 10.

* * * * The sample is skewed by the fact that these are things which
attracted *your* interest enough to bid -- and someone else is likely to
have very similar interests. *So -- your own interest is a
pre-selection. *It has already moved the auction out of the zero bids
category. *Something which *you* are interested in is likely to be
something which many in this newsgroup are interested in.

* * * * The zero bids are things which did not attract *anyone*.

* * * * Now -- if you took your sample with randomly selected eBay
auction numbers which you did not bother to determine whether they were
of interest to you until *after* they were selected for the statistic,
then you could have more reasonable statistics. *Go for 100 auctions,
and of those, pick ten which you will bid (a small amount) on even
though they are not of interest to you, and see whether they have
similar statistics.

* * * * Enjoy,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

That is true, but of the selected 10, and 6 were two bids, none were
one.
That is like the one in sixty four DNA match.
No conviction yet, but the cops now know it's him.
And if you read that pattern, I want to play poker with you.

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:18:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.

a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275
b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50
c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52
d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107
e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260
f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31
g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36
h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11
i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99

In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of
the existing high bid.

Most watched auctions end without any bids.

So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?

Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?

Personally, I feel that the rate of shill bidding has increased
dramatically since eBay hid the identities of bidders. That action
rendered the bidder search function unusable and made it impossible
for bidders to talk to each other.

My experience with eBay has led me to conclude that they don't really
care what sort of shenanigans are going on, if they get their fees.
--

I think posting the identities of bidders was leading to bogus second chance
offers. What's currently driving me nuts is the default "best match" search
which I constantly have to change back to ending soonest. That and the
"featured garbage" results which come before "closest distance", so if I'm
looking for strength training equipment located nearby, I have to scroll
through every piece of crap rubber band and abdominizer some scam artist is
selling.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:33:32 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


It's worth the risk to shill up the price if they can get some sucker
that doesn't know what the item is worth to pay $200 or more for it...

Worst case the shill goes past your limit, and the seller has to "Buy
it from themselves" to complete the illusion and eat the fees. But
they can give themselves positive feedback, so it isn't all bad.

And now you know why I stay far, far away. Den of thieves. If
their worst fault was only "Honest Al Babin" I'd deal there, at least
he was easy to spot.

-- Bruce --


There is a California tool deal that is reputed to shill the **** out of
their own auctions. A number of people are known to have kept records
and done a considerable amount of back checking on this.

A very well known and allegedly Reliable Tool seller.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""