Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .
--
Snag
every answer
leads to another
question

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .


I rebuilt a 125 some years ago and the cam was loose in the head.
Bored it out and bronze bushed both sides. Lasted as long as I had the
bike.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line boring
job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:48:54 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .


I rebuilt a 125 some years ago and the cam was loose in the head.
Bored it out and bronze bushed both sides. Lasted as long as I had the
bike.

Was it a one-piece head? They had cut-outs for the cam lobes so you could
put it in from the side - but it meant that there was a lot less meat for
the cam journal to run in.

All (as far as I know) SOHC fours have the cams run run in the aluminium;
when the cam in what I had lost luberication and seized it was time for a
new head (first time) and new engine (second time). Small metal bits in the
oil-restrictors plugged the feed to the rockers and cam end-bearings -
after that I started oil and filter changes on a much more frequent
schedule and epoxied a magnet in a hole bored in the sump plug.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:50:20 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about
.05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and
inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap
can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head
.
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line boring
job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Certainly a cam that's that scruddy would account for a lot of trouble,
although the fact that the thing has _no_ response to the idle adjustment
or choke doesn't sound good.

I like Bruce's suggestion of bronze bearings better than steel, although
as you said there's a lot of work to it. You'll want to take a look at
the condition of the camshaft before you decide anything else.

Welding up the bearings and machining down isn't bad in principle, but
were I doing that I'd be concerned with ever so slight warping and I'd
have the whole thing re-machined (at least at my current level of
expertise I'd _have_ it re-machined -- maybe if I get better I could do
it myself).

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Gunner Asch wrote:
Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

On the XL185, the end opposite the cam chain runs in a steel bushing
that is pinned to prevent rotation. The 185 head splits horizontally at
the cam centerline. Not sure how your head is configured, this may or
may not be an option for you. It would be the simplest fix, assuming the
cam journal surface is still in good enough shape.
But with that much wear up top and the shade tree idle jet you found, I
think you've got to start wondering how well this bike was maintained
and what other surprises lurk...
I see those XL's show up now and then fairly cheap. I just missed one by
minutes at a yard sale for $100. Buyer had to come back with a truck,
that's why I got to check it out and talk to the seller. It was really
clean, guy said it needed a brand new cylinder sleeve, piston, and bore
job, over $500 worth of parts and work. I would have just set it in the
back yard and waited for a good cylinder to show on ebay. Either cut
your losses now or start looking for a deal on a better one and use this
one for parts. That BMW will be a much better freeway ride anyway....

Jon

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Well, there should be a bearing in the
"distributor". I think it is a separate component
and the shaft keys into the end of the camshaft.
I got rid of my engine a couple years ago. (Only
had the engine out of a wreck, I was trying to mod
it to use in a hybrid car project.) It may have
had the exact same problem, it ran VERY rough, too.

Jon

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Are you SURE the carbs are originals and have the proper main jet? The
carbs off of a 400 are the same but have different mains. They would
cause rich running.


Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

Wrong jet in there someplace.


All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Plain aluminum on both ends. The usual repair is to grind the cam then
align bore the heads/saddles to fit bronze bearing inserts. You could
also do it the other way. Grind the bearing surfaces true then weld up
and grind down the head surface and the clamps as well.



Sigh...

Gunner



--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

As I've gotten older I think my "BAIL-BAIL-BAIL" point has moved. I see my
short remaining time on the Earth as being more valuable and I have become
very selective with what projects I will take on. I have started to
consider where my time is most valuably spent and what kind of return on
that investment is forthcoming. I no longer think I have to conquer every
demon or catch every ball that is thrown at me. The danger I see is that I
won't do anything challenging anymore or not do something that is extremely
satisfying because I can't justify it. Just an observation.

On Jan 5, 3:31*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine *Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. * Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. * That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. *Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gap somewhat OK, but have you gotten a timing light on it?

Is the centrifugal advance working?


If you do decide to pass on this bike, it does have enough of a
following you can find a willing victim for it fairly easily.


Dave

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:05:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 5, 3:31*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine *Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. * Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. * That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. *Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gap somewhat OK, but have you gotten a timing light on it?

None of my timing lights works on 6vts.

Having that variable point gap has to be wrecking havoc with the dwell.

Is the centrifugal advance working?
No idea. It is free and appears to be in good shape.


If you do decide to pass on this bike, it does have enough of a
following you can find a willing victim for it fairly easily.


Dave


Ive been told that one of my strengths (and weaknesses) is that Im
Mission Oriented...ie stubborn as hell. I tend to pursue a problem
until it and I are a bloody mess, with me standing in victory above
it...chuckle.
I cant throw money at most things, so tend to have to find other
alternatives. I may put it aside for a bit, but I always come back
...sometimes many times, until Ive resolved it. Sometimes with
horrendous amounts of time expended. Shrug...charector flaw perhaps.
Dont know when to quit.

I might wind up selling this thing off to someone who needs a parts
bike, but it wont be for a while.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Jan 5, 4:35*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:05:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 5, 3:31*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine *Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. * Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right..

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. * That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. *Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gap somewhat OK, but have you gotten a timing light on it?

None of my timing lights works on 6vts.

Having that variable point gap has to be wrecking havoc with the dwell.

Is the centrifugal advance working?

No idea. It is free and appears to be in good shape.



If you do decide to pass on this bike, it does have enough of a
following you can find a willing victim for it fairly easily.

Dave

Ive been told that one of my strengths (and weaknesses) is that Im
Mission Oriented...ie stubborn as hell. *I tend to pursue a problem
until it and I are a bloody mess, with me standing in victory above
it...chuckle. *
I cant throw money at most things, so tend to have to find other
alternatives. *I may put it aside for a bit, but I always come back
..sometimes many times, until Ive resolved it. *Sometimes with
horrendous amounts of time expended. *Shrug...charector flaw perhaps.
Dont know when to quit. *

I might wind up selling this thing off to someone who needs a parts
bike, but it wont be for a while.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

The timing light powers off +12V but triggers off the spark lead- you
should be able to:
connect a +12V battery's (-) lead to the bikes chassis,
the (-) lead of the timing light to (-) on the bike,
the (+) lead of the timing light to +12 on the 12V battery, and
the timing light sensor to the plug lead.

The common ground reference probably isn't even required.

The 'closing' end of the dwell isn't critical, but if its all over the
place on the opening end, yeah, the timing will be all over the place.

Hey, if it runs, that thing will get almost 100mpg... its a free
survival bike.

Dave

On Jan 5, 3:31*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine *Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. * Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. * That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. *Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Oh, and:

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...0-1974/o/m9383

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...m9383sch399961

Dave

In article , Gunner Asch
writes
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

How did you clean it? These carbs are a maze of twisty passages (all
alike) and they are *buggers* to get properly clean.

Ultrasonic cleaning seems to be the only way to do a proper job.

My money is on some old gas gumming up a passage or two somewhere. Can
you remember what the carb smelt like when you first got it? Old paint
thinners, and it's *definitely* gummed up.

A used carb will likely have the same problems.

New carbs can be surprisingly cheap. Or eye-wateringly expensive... ;^)

--
Nigel

When the only tools you have are an X3 mill, a
Colchester and assorted other stuff, every problem looks like a steam engine.

Gunner Asch formulated on Monday :
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line boring
job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have
it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Try posting your questions on
rec . motorcycles . dirt
or
http://www.thumpertalk.com/

I'd guess you get more help on thumper talk.

Wayne D.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:56:44 -0600, Wayne wrote:

Gunner Asch formulated on Monday :
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with
no luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head
.
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line
boring job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Try posting your questions on
rec . motorcycles . dirt
or
http://www.thumpertalk.com/

I'd guess you get more help on thumper talk.

Wayne D.

Gunner -- ignore the naysayers.

Clearly you understand that a piece of equipment that old that can be
brought back to life is a survivor, and will last forever.

(particularly if you restore those cam bearings).

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with
no luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet
seals, made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the
point gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to
pull the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown
out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the
head . Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new
racing camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150
line boring job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in
camshaft stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the
egg shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the
mill? Mill the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in
the larger hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place
in the cover and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this
is getting more complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless
the '74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try
to find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

Split aluminum bronze bushings (I like ampco18 , got a set of swingarm
bushings in my '90 FLHTCU made from it ...) . Cut the OD a thou or two tight
in the reamed-round cam bearing so they won't spin - or tab 'em like conrod
big end bearings . Might have to bolt the caps up with split shells in place
and do a light line-ream , just to make sure they're round and reasonably
lined up . Your off-idle miss/breaking up may be due to the cam bushings -
when it spools up , the loading on the lobes changes , maybe holding an
intake valve open ? For that matter ,the change in loading might throw
timing and dwell off enough to do that too .
Have fun ! I'm still not finished with the taper attachment , which I need
so I can make the mandrel and the laps , so that I can recondition the
roller bearing races on the crankshaft and the tranny main shaft . So much
fun to have , so little time to have it in !
--
Snag
every answer
leads to another
question

Tim Wescott has brought this to us :
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:56:44 -0600, Wayne wrote:

Gunner Asch formulated on Monday :
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with
no luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head
.
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line
boring job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Try posting your questions on
rec . motorcycles . dirt
or
http://www.thumpertalk.com/

I'd guess you get more help on thumper talk.

Wayne D.

Gunner -- ignore the naysayers.

Clearly you understand that a piece of equipment that old that can be
brought back to life is a survivor, and will last forever.

(particularly if you restore those cam bearings).

No naysaying here. Just asking about this particular bike and
trying to point him to where he can get more help than we
can give.

Wayne D.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:56:44 -0600, Wayne
wrote:

Gunner Asch formulated on Monday :
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line boring
job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have
it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Why isnt it any good for off road use? The 350 thumper wont putter
around in the desert?

My impetus is I have it. It almost runs, its all there, so why not?

Shrug

Got another bike of similar CC that will haul my 215lb corpus around,
that I can stick a rifle scabbard on that you will sell me really cheap,
or swap for? Dirt roads and off road in the desert, lots of hills.


Try posting your questions on
rec . motorcycles . dirt
or
http://www.thumpertalk.com/

I'd guess you get more help on thumper talk.

Wayne D.


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:49:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:56:44 -0600, Wayne wrote:

Gunner Asch formulated on Monday :
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with
no luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head
.
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line
boring job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Try posting your questions on
rec . motorcycles . dirt
or
http://www.thumpertalk.com/

I'd guess you get more help on thumper talk.

Wayne D.

Gunner -- ignore the naysayers.

Clearly you understand that a piece of equipment that old that can be
brought back to life is a survivor, and will last forever.

(particularly if you restore those cam bearings).


Indeed. I recall all the foofoorah when I got the the 1991 E350 Ford
van..the one that had been parked for 10 yrs.

Runs fine, took some work, but nothing unexpected, radiator, hoses etc.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:57:28 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with
no luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet
seals, made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the
point gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to
pull the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown
out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the
head . Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new
racing camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150
line boring job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in
camshaft stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the
egg shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the
mill? Mill the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in
the larger hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place
in the cover and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this
is getting more complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless
the '74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try
to find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

Split aluminum bronze bushings (I like ampco18 , got a set of swingarm
bushings in my '90 FLHTCU made from it ...) . Cut the OD a thou or two tight
in the reamed-round cam bearing so they won't spin - or tab 'em like conrod
big end bearings . Might have to bolt the caps up with split shells in place
and do a light line-ream , just to make sure they're round and reasonably
lined up . Your off-idle miss/breaking up may be due to the cam bushings -
when it spools up , the loading on the lobes changes , maybe holding an
intake valve open ? For that matter ,the change in loading might throw
timing and dwell off enough to do that too .
Have fun ! I'm still not finished with the taper attachment , which I need
so I can make the mandrel and the laps , so that I can recondition the
roller bearing races on the crankshaft and the tranny main shaft . So much
fun to have , so little time to have it in !


Looking at the photos of the head, I think I can simply make a round
bearing to fit a fresh line bore, with a pin to keep them from spinning
and oil galleys drilled in the right place. Slip the round bearing over
the camshaft, line the bearings up with the pins, and clamp everything
down I dont think I need to split them at all.

I didnt pull the head yet, still doing honey do's. Thought Id get called
to work today, but the phone still hasnt rung yet. Maybe tommorow

There is indeed enough play to keep valves from opening, particularly
with .003 tapet clearences


Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner Asch wrote:
Why isnt it any good for off road use? The 350 thumper wont putter
around in the desert
He might have thought it was the 350 twin? By even the standards of the
70's, that bike was not the best handler, from a racing perspective. But
it's a damned fine trail bike. A buddy loaned me his for a couple rides
back in the day and I rode the **** out of it up around Clear Lake. For
the sort of riding I imagine you want to do out there, it's near ideal.
A light weight desert sled....

Jon

Gunner Asch wrote:


Looking at the photos of the head, I think I can simply make a round
bearing to fit a fresh line bore, with a pin to keep them from
spinning and oil galleys drilled in the right place. Slip the round
bearing over the camshaft, line the bearings up with the pins, and
clamp everything down I dont think I need to split them at all.

I didnt pull the head yet, still doing honey do's. Thought Id get
called to work today, but the phone still hasnt rung yet. Maybe
tommorow

There is indeed enough play to keep valves from opening, particularly
with .003 tapet clearences


Gunner

Indeed , I was thinking "twin" , but it's a single , and you're absolutely
right . Less chance of screwin' it up with a non-split bush . Mandrel time
.... I'm finally gettin' motivated again , spending some time out in the shed
evenings again .
Might even finish one of my "started-to's" . Like that damn taper
attachment , ain't got that much left to finish it .
--
Snag
every answer
leads to another
question

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:28:42 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have
it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Why isnt it any good for off road use? The 350 thumper wont putter
around in the desert?

My impetus is I have it. It almost runs, its all there, so why not?

We're guys. Like we need more of a reason?

Shrug

Le Shrug. I figure civil engineering was developed as a way to
allow grown men to dig holes, and get muddy. "We're umm, ah ...
digging a basement, yeah. We're digging a basement. Or a foundation.
Yeah, a foundation. Gonna make a bridge."
Why are you going to make a bridge?
"Well, duh - so we have someplace to bungy jump!"

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Jan 5, 7:31 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.


Gunner, your thinking like a Company Engineer with access to unlimited
tools and free parts from the company store room - stop it! - you will
be ruined for civilised company.....start thinking like the
resourceful rat engineer we all know you are....

A few points, from this and previous postings...

have you checked there is fuel flow (ie, more than a leak) from the
tank? - if its been sitting for years, God knows what sediment / muck
is clogging the gauze filter at the bottom of the fuel taps. (or,
indeed, the fuel line to the carb)

Have you checked the exhaust port, even visually - is it carboned up?
- ( you said it was blowing smoke anyway) have you checked the exhaust
pipe and muffler, with an air line or a piece of stiff wire as a pull
through - maybe something has crawled in there and died?

Finally - the ignition system. You say you got a 6v coil and condenser
from an old truck - how old - must be eons, 6v systems went out in the
50's. How do you know the coil is good - obviously it fires, but what
happens when its loaded up, ie you open the throttle. I suggest you
temporary wire up a known good 12v one from an external car battery,
see what happens. You can then use your timing light to see if the
advance/retard thingy is working. And BTW - a 50yo condenser is likely
to be crook as well, either leave it out for the moment, or get a
known good one.

It comes down to carburetion or ignition - the ignition is the easiest
to prove. If it passes, then look at the carby suggestions others have
posted here.

And it will be a nice hooning around bike at the end of it - don't
worry about the camshaft bearings for the moment, it will/should run
reasonably even with stuffed ones. Spend big bucks when everything
else is proved.

Hope this helps, all recollections from when I was a penniless bum and
had to keep my bike gong.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Jan 6, 5:49�am, wrote:
On Jan 5, 7:31 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine �Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. � Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

Gunner, your thinking like a Company Engineer with access to unlimited
tools and free parts from the company store room - stop it! - you will
be ruined for civilised company.....start thinking like the
resourceful rat engineer we all know you are....

A few points, from this and previous postings...

have you checked there is fuel flow (ie, more than a leak) from the
tank? - if its been sitting for years, God knows what sediment / muck
is clogging the gauze filter at the bottom of the fuel taps. (or,
indeed, the fuel line to the carb)

Have you checked the exhaust port, even visually - is it carboned up?
- ( you said it was blowing smoke anyway) have you checked the exhaust
pipe and muffler, with an air line or a piece of stiff wire as a pull
through - maybe something has crawled in there and died?

Finally - the ignition system. You say you got a 6v coil and condenser
from an old truck - how old - must be eons, 6v systems went out in the
50's. How do you know the coil is good - obviously it fires, but what
happens when its loaded up, ie you open the throttle. I suggest you
temporary wire up a known good 12v one from an external car battery,
see what happens. You can then use your timing light to see if the
advance/retard thingy is working. And BTW - a 50yo condenser is likely
to be crook as well, either leave it out for the moment, or get a
known good one.

It comes down to carburetion or ignition - the ignition is the easiest
to prove. If it passes, then look at the carby suggestions others have
posted here.

And it will be a nice hooning around bike at the end of it - don't
worry about the camshaft bearings for the moment, it will/should run
reasonably even with stuffed ones. Spend big bucks when everything
else is proved.

Hope this helps, all recollections from when I was a penniless bum and
had to keep my bike gong.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

If degraded ignition is your problem -- and it could be -- the
diagnosis is easy and free. You may be getting a low voltage spark
impulse, which is enough to produce a spark when you test the plug in
open air or running at low cylinder pressure with the throttle closed,
but too weak to produce a spark at higher cylinder pressures which
result when you open the throttle. To diagnose this problem, simply
squeeze the plug gap down to half what is the spec and give her a
run. If you can get higher RPM with the reduced plug gap, you have
discovered your problem. At least one of them.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:49:33 -0800 (PST), the infamous
scrawled the following:

On Jan 5, 7:31 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.


Gunner, your thinking like a Company Engineer with access to unlimited
tools and free parts from the company store room - stop it! - you will
be ruined for civilised company.....start thinking like the
resourceful rat engineer we all know you are....

Oh, Andrew! You had to go and use the "E" word, didn't you? That
reminded me of this coagulation of engineer jokes:

--snip--
Comprehending Engineers-Take One
----------------------------------------------------
A pastor, a doctor and an engineer are waiting one morning
behind a particularly slow group of golfers. They see the
course marshal and ask why he isn't doing something to
expedite play.
"They're blind firefighters," says the marshal, "They lost
their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we let
them have free access to the course anytime they want."
After a moment's reflection, the group responds:
Pastor: "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer
for them tonight."
Doctor: "I'm going to contact an ophthalmologist friend, and
see if there's anything he can do for them."
Engineer: "Why can't these guys play at night?"

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Two
-----------------------------------------------------
In a high school gym class, all the girls are lined up
against one wall, and all the boys against the opposite
wall. Every ten seconds, they walk toward each other
exactly half the remaining distance between them. A
mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are asked,
"When will the girls and boys meet?"
Mathematician: "Never."
Physicist: "In an infinite amount of time."
Engineer: "Well... in about two minutes, they'll be close
enough for all practical purposes."

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Three
------------------------------------------------------
There was an engineer who had an exceptional gift for fixing
all things mechanical. After serving his company loyally for
over 30 years, he happily retired. Several years later his
company contacted him regarding a seemingly impossible
problem they were having. One of their multi-million dollar
machines wasn't working and no one knew how to fix it. The
engineer reluctantly took the challenge. He spent a day
studying the huge machine. At the end of the day he marked
a small "x" in chalk on a particular component of the
machine and proudly stated, "Replace this part and the machine
will work." The part was replaced and the machine worked
perfectly once again.
The company received a bill for $50,000 from the engineer.
They demanded an itemized accounting of his charges.
The engineer responded:
One chalk mark ........ ..... ..... $1
Knowing where to put it ... $49,999

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Four
-----------------------------------------------------
Three engineers and three mathematicians are traveling by
train to a conference. At the station, the three
mathematicians each buy tickets and watch as the three
engineers buy only a single ticket.
"How are three people going to travel on only one ticket?"
asks a mathematician.
"Watch and see," replies an engineer. They all board the
train. The mathematicians take their respective seats, but
all three engineers cram into a restroom and close the door.
Shortly after the train departs, the conductor comes around
collecting tickets. He knocks on the restroom door and says,
"Ticket, please."
The door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a
ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on. The
mathematicians see this and agree it is quite a clever idea.
After the conference, the mathematicians decide to copy the
engineers on the return trip and save some money. They buy
a single ticket for the return trip, but are astonished to
see that the engineers don't buy any ticket at all.
"How are you going to travel without a ticket?" asks one
perplexed mathematician. "Watch and see" is the answer.
They board the train, the three mathematicians cram into one
restroom and the three engineers cram into another one
nearby. Shortly after the train departs, one of the
engineers leaves his restroom and walks over to the restroom
where the mathematicians are hiding. He knocks on the door
and says, "Ticket, please."

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Five
-----------------------------------------------------
The Top 10 Things Engineering School didn't teach
10. There are at least 10 types of capacitors.
9. Theory tells you how a circuit works, not why it does not
work.
8. Not everything works according to the specs in the
databook.
7. Anything practical you learn will be obsolete before you
use it, except the complex math, which you will never use.
6. Always try to fix the hardware with software.
5. Engineering is like having an 8 a.m. class and a late
afternoon lab every day for the rest of your life.
4. Overtime pay? What overtime pay?
3. Managers, not engineers, rule the world.
2. If you like junk food, caffeine and all-nighters, go into
software.
1. Dilbert is a documentary.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Six
---------------------------------------------------
Q: What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and
Civil Engineers?
A: Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build
targets.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Seven
---------------------------------------------------
Two engineering students were walking across campus when one
said,"Where
did you get such a great bike?"

The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday
minding
my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. She
threw
the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, 'Take what
you
want.'"

"The second engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; the clothes
probably wouldn't have fit."

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Eight
---------------------------------------------------
To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass
is
half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs
to
be.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Nine
---------------------------------------------------
Normal people ... believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet."

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Ten
---------------------------------------------------
An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it
was
better to spend time with the wife or a mistress.

The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid
foundation for an enduring relationship.

The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the
passion and mystery he found there.

The engineer said, "I like both."

"Both?"

Engineer: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each
assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to
the lab and get some work done."


------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Eleven
---------------------------------------------------
An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him
and
said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess".

He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.

The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back
into a
beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."

The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and
returned it
to the pocket.

The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a
princess,
I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want."

Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back
into
his pocket.

Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a
beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything
you
want. Why won't you kiss me?"

The engineer said, "Look I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a
girlfriend, but a TALKING frog, now that's cool."

------------------------------------------------------------------
Comprehending Engineers-Take Twelve
---------------------------------------------------
Several engineers are standing around one day trying
to decide what type of engineer must have designed
the human body. (All right, for the purpose of the joke
there is an assumption of some sort of higher being that
actually designed the human body.....work with me people.)

The chemical engineer says "the human body was designed
by a chemical engineer. Look how the body takes in
nutrients and then turns them into energy and body
parts just by re-organizing a few chemical bonds."

The electrical enginner says "the human body was
clearly designed by an electrical engineer. Just observe
how tiny electrical impulses cause the muscles to move,
cause the person to feel, see and listen to all that is
happening around them. And finally look how a few
very tiny tiny electrical impulses can store a memory
for a lifetime, and yet bring that information back at a moments
notice. Clearly the work of a brillaint electrical engineer."

The mechanical engineer says "bahh! The human body was
designed by a mechanical engineer. Notice how the muscles and the
bones work to make the body move.
Notice how the organs work to move the food and other
nutrients around to the places where they are needed."

Finally the Civil engineer pipes up and says "you're all
wrong. The human body was designed by a civil engineer.
Who else would put a waste treatment plant right next
to a recreational facility?"

--snip--

Finally - the ignition system. You say you got a 6v coil and condenser
from an old truck - how old - must be eons, 6v systems went out in the
50's. How do you know the coil is good - obviously it fires, but what
happens when its loaded up, ie you open the throttle. I suggest you
temporary wire up a known good 12v one from an external car battery,
see what happens. You can then use your timing light to see if the
advance/retard thingy is working. And BTW - a 50yo condenser is likely
to be crook as well, either leave it out for the moment, or get a
known good one.

You must have missed the post where he said that the cam was loping
around with a 1/8" hop to it, at the ignition points. The ignition
timing is likely to suffer just a wee bit from that.

--
Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other
men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.
--Jesse Lee Bennett

Gunner Asch wrote:

None of my timing lights works on 6vts.

6 volts? SIX VOLTS?????
Oh, MY, that might explain a lot. I slapped that 350 engine into my
insane VW Beetle hybrid car project and hooked it up to one battery and
tried to run it on 12 Volts! Maybe that's why it didn't run so well. I
was pretty sure I had checked the Clymer's (or whatever) manual and
verified the right battery voltage.

If you have an inductive timing light, it doesn't have to run off the
same power as the engine.

Jon

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:49:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 5, 7:31 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.


Gunner, your thinking like a Company Engineer with access to unlimited
tools and free parts from the company store room - stop it! - you will
be ruined for civilised company.....start thinking like the
resourceful rat engineer we all know you are....

LOL

A few points, from this and previous postings...

have you checked there is fuel flow (ie, more than a leak) from the
tank? - if its been sitting for years, God knows what sediment / muck
is clogging the gauze filter at the bottom of the fuel taps. (or,
indeed, the fuel line to the carb)

Yep, cleaned the tank, pulled the petcock, cleaned the sediment bowl
anhd filter, added a decent new inline filter and new hoses

Have you checked the exhaust port, even visually - is it carboned up?
- ( you said it was blowing smoke anyway) have you checked the exhaust
pipe and muffler, with an air line or a piece of stiff wire as a pull
through - maybe something has crawled in there and died?

No, havent done that. Its a good idea however. I do have a reasonable
output of exhaust from the spark arrester. But I will check that.

Finally - the ignition system. You say you got a 6v coil and condenser
from an old truck - how old - must be eons, 6v systems went out in the
50's. How do you know the coil is good - obviously it fires, but what
happens when its loaded up, ie you open the throttle. I suggest you
temporary wire up a known good 12v one from an external car battery,
see what happens. You can then use your timing light to see if the
advance/retard thingy is working. And BTW - a 50yo condenser is likely
to be crook as well, either leave it out for the moment, or get a
known good one.

I got a good used Motorcycle coil from a parts bike similar to mine. 6vt
AC (ac magnito ignition) and a brand new condenser from the autoparts
store. Puts out a decent blue spark now. Also a new NGK plug and NGK
plug cap on the end of the spark plug wire.

It comes down to carburetion or ignition - the ignition is the easiest
to prove. If it passes, then look at the carby suggestions others have
posted here.

The bike sits and idles well enough. It just turns to **** when tweeking
the throttle. I need to find another carby. I carefully cleaned this
one, using mig wire on the small passages, lots and lots of compressed
air and a soaking in Berrymans Chemtool carby cleaner. I replaced all
the seals with brand new o-rings, and made sure the crush fit didnt
close any of them off. The original seals being flat rubber disks with
a hole in the middle between the various bits. Replaced idle jet seal
as well.
I really need to find another carby, even a loaner to test with. This
one may be utterly stuffed. The odometer had 17,000 miles showing,
which while not a lot...is significant.

And it will be a nice hooning around bike at the end of it - don't
worry about the camshaft bearings for the moment, it will/should run
reasonably even with stuffed ones. Spend big bucks when everything
else is proved.

Im sure this bike has two problems,...the carby..and the worn out cam
journal (s).

The way Honda does it on most of thes bikes...the head has half of of
the cam journal machined into it, a cradle the camshaft lays in...and
there is a cover that goes on top of the head. It has ports to adjust
the valves and so forth. The bottom of the cover has the upper half of
the camshaft journal machined into it No journal "caps"...they are
machind into the cover.

When I turn the engine, so all the valves are closed and the pressure is
off of the tappets, I can move the end of the camshaft that carries the
points cam a significant amount.Probably 1/8" of an inch...3mm? in the
horizontal direction side to side, and a bit less up and down. This
movemen is affecting the amount and time the points open and close.
This also effecs if the valves open, how much, and when. Double
overhead cam...two exhaust valves,, two intake valves, single cyllinder.

Hope this helps, all recollections from when I was a penniless bum and
had to keep my bike gong.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

The bike starts hard, unless I use an oiler and spritz some raw gas into
the carby, past the slide into the engine. Then it starts fine,

Ive played with the timing, with the engine running,and found the sweet
spot where it idles fine, but it still wont do anything other than bog
when I tweek the throttle. If I creep up on it..after about half
throttle, the bike will suddenly speed up normally to high rpms.
Normally Id think this was a carby issue...but watching the points cam
shaft wallowing around like a drunken sailor..I think that at the higher
rpms, the end of the cam shaft is now spinning fast enough to get some
gyroscopic stability and enough oil is being pumped into the worn out
journal to pile up in it and get a thick film around it which helps
stabilize it when its spinning., and this now allows the cam to run
fairly true..concentric and the points are opening closing in a
consistant manner.

Ive ordered a proper carb seal kit from Ebay and when it arrives, Ill
install it. But..the carby may simply be worn out, thought the slide
appears smooth, and slides smoothly in the slide bore. Needle jet is in
the proper clip setting according all the online sites devoted to this
bike.its quite a popular bike for flat tracking, etc etc. Which makes
finding cheap parts a bit more problematic...what the market will
bear....

A fellow down south mentioned that he has a Mikuni 38mm carby..which is
one of the ones easily adapted to this bike, but Ill have to install the
proper jets and so forth.

The California bike boneyards want huge money for used parts, so unless
I can find a head on Ebay...and know it too isnt worn out. and a
carby..same concern...I have to work with what I have.

Chucle..if I was over engineering..Id have ordered a new head $485, a
new head coverr $135, a new carby $350, and a new camshaft $215.

Or send in the head/cover to one of the bike racing shops for a line
bore $150, and a new cam with needle bearings $350....

Instead ..Im probaly going to bolt the head and cover to an angle plate,
and carefuly bore out the worn out journals to fit bronze bushings,
clean up the camshaft if possible, or grind it clean, fit the bronze
bushings to it and the bored journals and see if that fixes it.
Having that camshaft bounching around inside of that aluminum journal
cant be doing the journal any good..it can only get more and more hogged
out and its likely to be doing the far side journal damage as well.

Boring this is going to be interesting..as the inside journal is
significantly bigger in diameter than the outside one.
Im pretty sure Honda didnt line bore them, but used a big milling cutter
....form tool.....and simply squeezed the head and cover together around
the spinning form cutter.

Being bigger on the inside journal, im hoping that it took less
damage/wear and I only have to bush the outside one. I can live with
some slop on the inside..the outside carres the points cam

Thanks

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:24:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 6, 5:49?am, wrote:
On Jan 5, 7:31 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine ?Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. ? Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

Gunner, your thinking like a Company Engineer with access to unlimited
tools and free parts from the company store room - stop it! - you will
be ruined for civilised company.....start thinking like the
resourceful rat engineer we all know you are....

A few points, from this and previous postings...

have you checked there is fuel flow (ie, more than a leak) from the
tank? - if its been sitting for years, God knows what sediment / muck
is clogging the gauze filter at the bottom of the fuel taps. (or,
indeed, the fuel line to the carb)

Have you checked the exhaust port, even visually - is it carboned up?
- ( you said it was blowing smoke anyway) have you checked the exhaust
pipe and muffler, with an air line or a piece of stiff wire as a pull
through - maybe something has crawled in there and died?

Finally - the ignition system. You say you got a 6v coil and condenser
from an old truck - how old - must be eons, 6v systems went out in the
50's. How do you know the coil is good - obviously it fires, but what
happens when its loaded up, ie you open the throttle. I suggest you
temporary wire up a known good 12v one from an external car battery,
see what happens. You can then use your timing light to see if the
advance/retard thingy is working. And BTW - a 50yo condenser is likely
to be crook as well, either leave it out for the moment, or get a
known good one.

It comes down to carburetion or ignition - the ignition is the easiest
to prove. If it passes, then look at the carby suggestions others have
posted here.

And it will be a nice hooning around bike at the end of it - don't
worry about the camshaft bearings for the moment, it will/should run
reasonably even with stuffed ones. Spend big bucks when everything
else is proved.

Hope this helps, all recollections from when I was a penniless bum and
had to keep my bike gong.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

If degraded ignition is your problem -- and it could be -- the
diagnosis is easy and free. You may be getting a low voltage spark
impulse, which is enough to produce a spark when you test the plug in
open air or running at low cylinder pressure with the throttle closed,
but too weak to produce a spark at higher cylinder pressures which
result when you open the throttle. To diagnose this problem, simply
squeeze the plug gap down to half what is the spec and give her a
run. If you can get higher RPM with the reduced plug gap, you have
discovered your problem. At least one of them.

Ill try that!

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:06:47 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

None of my timing lights works on 6vts.

6 volts? SIX VOLTS?????
Oh, MY, that might explain a lot. I slapped that 350 engine into my
insane VW Beetle hybrid car project and hooked it up to one battery and
tried to run it on 12 Volts! Maybe that's why it didn't run so well. I
was pretty sure I had checked the Clymer's (or whatever) manual and
verified the right battery voltage.

If you have an inductive timing light, it doesn't have to run off the
same power as the engine.

Jon

About '78 or so, Honda joined the real world and changed over to 12 volt
system.

The cool thing about this bike, it has a seperate charging coil just to
run the ignition. If the engine is spinning, even from kicking it over,
it generates enough juice to fire the ignition system. The other half
of the alternator is used for the lighting system. So it doesnt really
need a battery etc etc to run fine. You will be in the dark...but
moving...G

Gunnre

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner Asch brought next idea :
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:56:44 -0600, Wayne
wrote:

Gunner Asch formulated on Monday :
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:33:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike
seems to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run
right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it
comes out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has
about .05-.08 of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping
and inconsistant idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point
gap can be .015 one moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on
both ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner


If it's like the CB750's , that cam runs in bare aluminum in the head .
Not sure how they recondition them .


Plain aluminum bearings...with that much slop....Crom sob....

I guess Im going to have to pull the valve cover tommorow and see what
kind of damage is in there. Ive been searching the net for any
info..and not turning up much other than hip slick and cool new racing
camshafts with needle bearings, which apparently need a $150 line boring
job to install The bike isnt worth putting $300 in camshaft
stuff....****.

That much play means the journal is likely to be egg shaped. I just
found a picture of the exposed guts of a head on Ebay...and yup..no
bearings in there.

Now the big question is how to repair the existing head, reweld the egg
shape and clamp the head an angle plate and rebore it on the mill? Mill
the hole round and make up a steel split bearing to go in the larger
hole and hone it to size? Pin the split bearing in place in the cover
and head? With the appropriate oiler hole? ****..this is getting more
complicated as time goes on.

Maybe Ill try to find a used head..though its gonna be tough unless the
'74-75 heads were used on later bikes

Still dont know if thats connected to the running problem. Maybe try to
find a 38mm Mikuni carb like the racers use, or a used carby

Labor (mine) I can afford...buying stuff...thats not in the budget.

Maybe its time to change over to the BMW and get her on the road....

Sigh

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

What's your impetus for getting this bike going, other than you have
it?
Does it have sentimental value?
I can see where it would be good for local trips. But it really isn't
any good for off road or highway use.

Why isnt it any good for off road use? The 350 thumper wont putter
around in the desert?

My impetus is I have it. It almost runs, its all there, so why not?

Shrug

Got another bike of similar CC that will haul my 215lb corpus around,
that I can stick a rifle scabbard on that you will sell me really cheap,
or swap for? Dirt roads and off road in the desert, lots of hills.


Try posting your questions on
rec . motorcycles . dirt
or
http://www.thumpertalk.com/

I'd guess you get more help on thumper talk.

Wayne D.


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

I most humbly apologize. I thought you had 2 questions. The 1st being
is it worth it to fix it, the second how to fix it. I was trying to
answer both.

Wayne D.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:31:56 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

My bet is on a rat's nest in the muffler(s).

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:44:29 -0600, Andy Asberry
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:31:56 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

My bet is on a rat's nest in the muffler(s).

Can I simply remove the exhaust pipe from the exhaust manifold and check
it that way?

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Jan 7, 11:21*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost

You sure come up with some good taglines Gunner - breathtaking in
their blind sincerity - must argue some more about these
things,.......... but in the meantime

Have you thought that all your problems with this bike COULD be the
result of some dastardly leftist plot? - after all, they are
responsible for all the worlds ills, why not this one? g

Andrew VK3BFA

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:35:42 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 7, 11:21*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost

You sure come up with some good taglines Gunner - breathtaking in
their blind sincerity - must argue some more about these
things,.......... but in the meantime

Have you thought that all your problems with this bike COULD be the
result of some dastardly leftist plot? - after all, they are
responsible for all the worlds ills, why not this one? g

Of course! Thats IT!!

Andrew VK3BFA


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Jan 7, 7:21*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:44:29 -0600, Andy Asberry
wrote:



On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:31:56 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Ive been trying to get that '74 Honda XL 350 to run properly...with no
luck.

Pulled the carby tonight checked everything, Replaced idle jet seals,
made sure float was at proper height.

Timed it, adjusted valves, point gap..the whole encilada.

Will idle just fine *Coughs and runs ragged and will stall if adding
throtle. The idle screw seems to do very lttle if anything. * Bike seems
to not care if choke is on or off.

All passages were cleaned, all seals replaced...still doesnt run right.

I also found while settiig the points, that the camshaft where it comes
out the side of the engine, with the points cam on it, has about .05-.08
of wobble in it. * That explains some of the popping and inconsistant
idle..the damned thing is wobbling around, the point gap can be .015 one
moment, the next .125

Ive not gotten the manuals that I purchased on Ebay, so done know if
there is a bearing, a bushing or what not in there. *Ill have to pull
the head and check...sigh..I hope the camshaft is not blown out.

Anyone know what is used to keep the camshaft lined up? Bearings on both
ends or ???

Sigh...

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

My bet is on a rat's nest in the muffler(s).

Can I simply remove the exhaust pipe from the exhaust manifold and check
it that way?

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost

Yep. if tuned correctly it might run a little lean, but if the exhaust
is plugged it'll run better.

Dave