In an old Bearcat potbelly stove . It's broke , and I'm pretty sure
brazing isn't the answer at the temps down there . This is the grate at the
bottom of the firebox , and if the stove gets red hot , damn sure that grate
is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the grate ,
you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also broken . My wife
sez this thing has been in her family for quite some time , and she would
like it repaired and installed in our living room . I'm not so sure I want
that ash and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out in the
shop .
Any suggestions ?
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:08:38 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

In an old Bearcat potbelly stove . It's broke , and I'm pretty sure
brazing isn't the answer at the temps down there . This is the grate at the
bottom of the firebox , and if the stove gets red hot , damn sure that grate
is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the grate ,
you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also broken . My wife
sez this thing has been in her family for quite some time , and she would
like it repaired and installed in our living room . I'm not so sure I want
that ash and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out in the
shop .
Any suggestions ?

Get a new one made.
I found this with the google search string "lathe amish foundry cast iron":

------------------
I have had very good service from Cattail Foundry in Pennsylvania. I've
sent patterns and a check for something more than I expect it to cost and
received back the number of castings expected and change from the check.
It's in Amish country and difficult to reach by modern methods but mail
works well:

Cattail Foundry
Emanuel J. King
167 W. Cattail Road
Gordonville, PA 17659

I think that if you google "cattail foundry" that you'll find similar
positive comments, and he has experience in casting direct from the part
(it's not that hard as long as some shrinkage can be lived with or
accommodated in the ramming up).

You're correct, you don't want this relic in your house, and I'm fairly
certain that your insurance company doesn't want it in there either.

The ash dust and soot/smoke residue will be airborne and travel throughout
your living space. A couple of examples of problems would be CD and DVD
players/recorders. The additional ultrafine airborne contamination will
likely cause problems with more than just those two examples. You'll also be
breathing it.

When I was doing electronic service/repairs, you could always easily
distinguish a piece of equipment that came from a household with a fireplace
or wood stove.

I don't know if pellet fuel would be completely problem-free as far as
additional dust is concerned.

Saw the bottom off (or remove some of the center) and make a floor lamp or
end table outta the thing.
If it was in perfect condition, it would be a different matter as far as a
keepsake, or for antique value.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
In an old Bearcat potbelly stove . It's broke , and I'm pretty sure
brazing isn't the answer at the temps down there . This is the grate at
the bottom of the firebox , and if the stove gets red hot , damn sure that
grate is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the
grate , you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also broken .
My wife sez this thing has been in her family for quite some time , and
she would like it repaired and installed in our living room . I'm not so
sure I want that ash and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use
it out in the shop .
Any suggestions ?
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the grate ,
you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also broken . My wife
....
I broke this piece on my coal boiler at the old place...

I put the two cast iron halves in a fixture and milled two slots to insert
stainless steel rectangles on the bottom. 1/2" x 1" x 10" IIRC. I had a pro
weld the casting where it broke with the stainless in place. I used it hard
that way for 10 years. Told the fella that bought my house about the repair
17 years ago. He's never been over for warranty work.

Now that I have a CNC mill and laser digitizer, I'd make the whole dang
piece out of stainless. Then it would last longer than this temp. repair.G

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the
grate , you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also
broken . My wife
...
I broke this piece on my coal boiler at the old place...

I put the two cast iron halves in a fixture and milled two slots to
insert stainless steel rectangles on the bottom. 1/2" x 1" x 10"
IIRC. I had a pro weld the casting where it broke with the stainless
in place. I used it hard that way for 10 years. Told the fella that
bought my house about the repair 17 years ago. He's never been over
for warranty work.
Now that I have a CNC mill and laser digitizer, I'd make the whole
dang piece out of stainless. Then it would last longer than this
temp. repair.G
Karl
As small as it is , no way I can repair it like you did . Guess I'll just
have to make it into a lamp or something as Bill suggested . Oh well ...
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the grate
, you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also broken . My
wife
...
I broke this piece on my coal boiler at the old place...

I put the two cast iron halves in a fixture and milled two slots to insert
stainless steel rectangles on the bottom. 1/2" x 1" x 10" IIRC. I had a
pro weld the casting where it broke with the stainless in place. I used it
hard that way for 10 years. Told the fella that bought my house about the
repair 17 years ago. He's never been over for warranty work.

Now that I have a CNC mill and laser digitizer, I'd make the whole dang
piece out of stainless. Then it would last longer than this temp.
repair.G

Karl


Karl
Your laser digitizer sounds interesting. Please tell me more about it. I do
a lot of designs for my CNC plasma table by taking a photo of the part and
turning it into a .dxf file but accuracy suffers a little in the process and
I end up checking all the measurements if it is a critical part. Artwork
isn't too fussy but some of the machine and equipment parts I do need to be
right on.
Steve

Terry Coombs wrote:
In an old Bearcat potbelly stove . It's broke , and I'm pretty sure
brazing isn't the answer at the temps down there . This is the grate at the
bottom of the firebox , and if the stove gets red hot , damn sure that grate
is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate piece in the center of the grate ,
you shake it to drop the ashes into the bottom) is also broken . My wife
sez this thing has been in her family for quite some time , and she would
like it repaired and installed in our living room . I'm not so sure I want
that ash and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out in the
shop .
Any suggestions ?

The trouble with old cast and heat is in time much of the iron burns out
and leaves an iron core with a surface of little iron and lots of carbon.

If you just want it for the value (antique), then try to stitch it with
7018 or 7014 (yea it'll "tick", "plink" and have some underbead
cracking). But it won't look the same, rust the same, etc.

If you want it fixed for strength then your stuck using bare cast rod
and O/A. Bare rod is available in grade 30 thru 60 and is tough for some
to use but it matches perfectly except for having a less porous surface
than the usual cast iron.

Matt

Your laser digitizer sounds interesting. Please tell me more about it. I
do a lot of designs for my CNC plasma table by taking a photo of the part
and turning it into a .dxf file but accuracy suffers a little in the
process and I end up checking all the measurements if it is a critical
part. Artwork isn't too fussy but some of the machine and equipment parts
I do need to be right on.
Steve

I bought an Omron laser displacement sensor off eBay. It puts out 4 - 20
milliamps over distance of 1.1 to 2.0" away. I mounted it in a taper 40
holder. I then go back and forth over the part in my CNC mill and record
distances plus X,Y,Z dimensions off the control. You end up with a ton o'
points. Then the hard part, make it into something usable. So far, I'm
learning Rhino. I'm not too good at this step.

If you got time, there's also a point probe that you can build or buy. With
that you move the mill to an X,Y location and then move Z till the probe
touches; record point;repeat. Much slower and slightly less accurate. But
still way more than you'd need for a plasma cutter.

I did the photo to .dxf thing with my business sign. Next time you drive by,
look at the new signs. Took more time than if i had just started over from
scratch.


Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
Your laser digitizer sounds interesting. Please tell me more about it. I
do a lot of designs for my CNC plasma table by taking a photo of the part
and turning it into a .dxf file but accuracy suffers a little in the
process and I end up checking all the measurements if it is a critical
part. Artwork isn't too fussy but some of the machine and equipment parts
I do need to be right on.
Steve


I bought an Omron laser displacement sensor off eBay. It puts out 4 - 20
milliamps over distance of 1.1 to 2.0" away. I mounted it in a taper 40
holder. I then go back and forth over the part in my CNC mill and record
distances plus X,Y,Z dimensions off the control. You end up with a ton o'
points. Then the hard part, make it into something usable. So far, I'm
learning Rhino. I'm not too good at this step.

If you got time, there's also a point probe that you can build or buy. With
that you move the mill to an X,Y location and then move Z till the probe
touches; record point;repeat. Much slower and slightly less accurate. But
still way more than you'd need for a plasma cutter.

I did the photo to .dxf thing with my business sign. Next time you drive by,
look at the new signs. Took more time than if i had just started over from
scratch.


Karl





I've taken "lines" off of boat hulls using a few cheap laser leveling
devices. Anything that will draw a bright thin line on the hull.

One set going "up" the hull and one set running lengthwise.

Then I level up in front of the hull on the load waterline and snap
a digital picture. (Same for the aft part).

I play with the lazer photos a bit first. Kinda Pre-procesing.
The idea is to get the line as thin as possible. Those lines
show up brighter in the photos than they do in real life.
I do this by playing with the brightness and gamma settings.

The thinner the lines are the more accurate the trace.
These pics are then imported into my CAD software (no it ain't Rhino!)
and traced.

While there may be some absolute accuracy lost in the tracing process,
I can usually make it back up in the fairing process.

I'd suspect that proper fairing will help with even small parts.
As long as you can get a good sied photo anyway.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Your laser digitizer sounds interesting. Please tell me more about it. I
do a lot of designs for my CNC plasma table by taking a photo of the part
and turning it into a .dxf file but accuracy suffers a little in the
process and I end up checking all the measurements if it is a critical
part. Artwork isn't too fussy but some of the machine and equipment parts
I do need to be right on.
Steve

I bought an Omron laser displacement sensor off eBay. It puts out 4 - 20
milliamps over distance of 1.1 to 2.0" away. I mounted it in a taper 40
holder. I then go back and forth over the part in my CNC mill and record
distances plus X,Y,Z dimensions off the control. You end up with a ton o'
points. Then the hard part, make it into something usable. So far, I'm
learning Rhino. I'm not too good at this step.

If you got time, there's also a point probe that you can build or buy.
With that you move the mill to an X,Y location and then move Z till the
probe touches; record point;repeat. Much slower and slightly less
accurate. But still way more than you'd need for a plasma cutter.

I did the photo to .dxf thing with my business sign. Next time you drive
by, look at the new signs. Took more time than if i had just started over
from scratch.


Karl

I'm scheming about making one using a Leitz laser "tape measure" device and
a homemade gantry -- big enough for a car. I've tried it with a similar
instrument made for Stanley by Leitz (FatMax TLM 100 -- around $100), and
the concept works. The Leitz-branded model has signal output; the Stanley
does not, so I'll use the Leitz (around $400) if I get serious about it.

I made a similar gantry around 25 years ago, using a plumb bob and tape
measure, and a wooden gantry aligned with a single stretched steel wire for
the longitudinal level along the car's wheelbase. It took forever to take
measurements at a 6" grid but it did work. The laser measurer could make the
whole thing very practical.

--
Ed Huntress

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...


Your laser digitizer sounds interesting. Please tell me more about it. I
do a lot of designs for my CNC plasma table by taking a photo of the part
and turning it into a .dxf file but accuracy suffers a little in the
process and I end up checking all the measurements if it is a critical
part. Artwork isn't too fussy but some of the machine and equipment parts
I do need to be right on.
Steve

I bought an Omron laser displacement sensor off eBay. It puts out 4 - 20
milliamps over distance of 1.1 to 2.0" away. I mounted it in a taper 40
holder. I then go back and forth over the part in my CNC mill and record
distances plus X,Y,Z dimensions off the control. You end up with a ton o'
points. Then the hard part, make it into something usable. So far, I'm
learning Rhino. I'm not too good at this step.

If you got time, there's also a point probe that you can build or buy.
With that you move the mill to an X,Y location and then move Z till the
probe touches; record point;repeat. Much slower and slightly less
accurate. But still way more than you'd need for a plasma cutter.

I have done this with the plasma cutting table but it works best with one
person jogging the table another marking the points on the screen. Most
parts I draw by coordinates but odd shaped stuff is a little harder to
measure and those I use the camera method. I have been using the trace
function in Corel Draw and saving it as a .dxf and it works quite well with
a high contrast photo. I had a chance to buy a digitizing table a few years
ago but didn't have the cash when I was first starting out so I passed on
it. (still don't)
Steve



I did the photo to .dxf thing with my business sign. Next time you drive
by, look at the new signs. Took more time than if i had just started over
from scratch.

I will take a look and try to stop in next time I go south of St Cloud. The
last time we were there we stopped to have lunch in Dassel at the little
cafe in town. After we stopped at your house and you weren't home I wondered
if that wasn't you in the cafe. It is fun to wonder about what some of you
guys look like. Gunner, I know he looks like a gangly hairy cowboy.
Steve

Grumpy wrote:
"matthew maguire" wrote in message
...
Terry Coombs wrote:
In an old Bearcat potbelly stove . It's broke , and I'm pretty
sure brazing isn't the answer at the temps down there . This is the
grate at the bottom of the firebox , and if the stove gets red hot
, damn sure that grate is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate
piece in the center of the grate , you shake it to drop the ashes
into the bottom) is also broken . My wife sez this thing has been
in her family for quite some time , and she would like it repaired
and installed in our living room . I'm not so sure I want that ash
and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out in the
shop . Any suggestions ?

The trouble with old cast and heat is in time much of the iron burns
out and leaves an iron core with a surface of little iron and lots
of carbon. If you just want it for the value (antique), then try to
stitch it
with 7018 or 7014 (yea it'll "tick", "plink" and have some underbead
cracking). But it won't look the same, rust the same, etc.

If you want it fixed for strength then your stuck using bare cast
rod and O/A. Bare rod is available in grade 30 thru 60 and is tough
for some to use but it matches perfectly except for having a less
porous surface than the usual cast iron.

Matt

You can also TIG weld it using cast iron filler rod. (Damned expensive
stuff for some reason) It takes a lot of current and it doesn't hurt
to have somone with a OA torch helping keep the heat up to it. After
you've finished welding it, throw it in a box of vermiculite or ashes
for a couple of hours to let it cool down slowly. We did it recently
on a centrifugal pump casting that was broken by an over enthusiastic
fitter.It worked quite well, but distorted a bit and we had to open
up some bolt holes to re-attach it. If you have time, bolt it to a
piece of plate to keep it stable. Gouge out plenty of material around
the crack site to get good penetration of the weld. If all else
fails, look for a company called Metal Lock in the phone book. They
have a mechanical process that is good enough that LLoyd's Insurance
accepts it for cast iron repairs to seagoing vessels.

Many thanks for all the suggestions from everybody . After discussing it
with her last night , we have decided it will make a very nice flower pot .
Flower pots don't need burner grates ...
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
Grumpy wrote:
"matthew maguire" wrote in message
...
Terry Coombs wrote:
In an old Bearcat potbelly stove . It's broke , and I'm pretty
sure brazing isn't the answer at the temps down there . This is the
grate at the bottom of the firebox , and if the stove gets red hot
, damn sure that grate is just as hot . The "shaker" (separate
piece in the center of the grate , you shake it to drop the ashes
into the bottom) is also broken . My wife sez this thing has been
in her family for quite some time , and she would like it repaired
and installed in our living room . I'm not so sure I want that ash
and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out in the
shop . Any suggestions ?

The trouble with old cast and heat is in time much of the iron burns
out and leaves an iron core with a surface of little iron and lots
of carbon. If you just want it for the value (antique), then try to
stitch it
with 7018 or 7014 (yea it'll "tick", "plink" and have some underbead
cracking). But it won't look the same, rust the same, etc.

If you want it fixed for strength then your stuck using bare cast
rod and O/A. Bare rod is available in grade 30 thru 60 and is tough
for some to use but it matches perfectly except for having a less
porous surface than the usual cast iron.

Matt

You can also TIG weld it using cast iron filler rod. (Damned expensive
stuff for some reason) It takes a lot of current and it doesn't hurt
to have somone with a OA torch helping keep the heat up to it. After
you've finished welding it, throw it in a box of vermiculite or ashes
for a couple of hours to let it cool down slowly. We did it recently
on a centrifugal pump casting that was broken by an over enthusiastic
fitter.It worked quite well, but distorted a bit and we had to open
up some bolt holes to re-attach it. If you have time, bolt it to a
piece of plate to keep it stable. Gouge out plenty of material around
the crack site to get good penetration of the weld. If all else
fails, look for a company called Metal Lock in the phone book. They
have a mechanical process that is good enough that LLoyd's Insurance
accepts it for cast iron repairs to seagoing vessels.

Many thanks for all the suggestions from everybody . After discussing it
with her last night , we have decided it will make a very nice flower pot
.
Flower pots don't need burner grates ...
--

Sounds reasonable. a lot cheaper than Metal Lock!

"Terry Coombs" wrote:

I'm not so sure I want
that ash and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out in the
shop .
Any suggestions ?

Cast iron for grates is far better than steel. Keeping it in the family will keep you in
the family and yes, the shop is the right place for it. I love wood heat. Hard on
everything though.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

I'm not so sure I want
that ash and soot spewing thing in the house , I'd rather use it out
in the shop .
Any suggestions ?

Cast iron for grates is far better than steel. Keeping it in the
family will keep you in the family and yes, the shop is the right
place for it. I love wood heat. Hard on everything though.

Wes
We decided to turn it into a flower pot ... I'll need to coat the inside
to help keep rust at bay , probably some kind of epoxy .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills