After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Nov 8, 10:38 pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

Tune in next week to find out what happens when you boil them for five
minutes...

On Nov 8, 10:38*pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

Try it with identical batteries in both meters.

"Ignoramus3975" wrote in message
...
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.


And just what does this demonstrate or prove? I have one of the HF units,
it's functional. I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.

CarlBoyd

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

On 2008-11-09, Carl Boyd wrote:

"Ignoramus3975" wrote in message
...
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.


And just what does this demonstrate or prove? I have one of the HF units,
it's functional. I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.

What it does prove is that the HF multimeter does not stop working at
sub-freezing temperature.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.


Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

On Nov 9, 5:04*pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: *(clip) *I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? *Companies don't always supply tools. *I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

Flukes are made to be laboratory accuracy instruments, and the average
guy doesn't need one, so why spend the extra money. Some of us do need
them, and for different reasons. For ordinary measurement, I
generally use my ancient Simpson 260, or my Triplett 630. When I work
on semiconductor electronics I pull out the Fluke which has dated
calibration stickers on it.

Here is my experience with Fluke. After being bounced around from job
to job for about 8 years, it fell short of meeting calibration
accuracy requirements. The case was not damaged, but well worn. So I
sent it back to Fluke for repair and recalibration. Fluke in turn,
simply sent me a new meter! It passed calibration with flying colors
and now 15 years after my original purchase, it still passes it semi-
annual calibration tests and get a new certification sticker. Few
other multimeters can claim this, or is it something that the average
guy/gal needs?

Back when I purchased my first Fluke multimeter, the price was around
$300, today they are selling for under $100 if you shop around. If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.

Believe me, it's comforting to know that when the Fluke reads 4.915
volts from a 5V supply, the Fluke is unquestionably correct since its
calibration traces back to NIST standards.

Harry C.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 5:04 pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke,
when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g

But I want to know what kind of battery that is. Jeez.

--
Ed Huntress

wrote:
... Fluke multimeter, ... If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.
...

I have an older Fluke bench DMM whose factory specs were impressive.
Present calibration unknown but more than adequate, I'm sure, for my
needs. There have been occasions when I used both the Fluke and the $3
HF DMM for the same test and the readings were essentially identical.
I.e., well within the precision that I was interested in. A couple %, IIRC.

YMMV,
Bob

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g


I think the display didn't work. Not sure where LCD goes blank. I had a cycle computer
(avocet 50) that didn't like really cold temps.

My 12 could go a year or two on a battery or only a few months. I used the min max
function quite often to look for situations where we had a drop out in supply voltage.
Generally a rub or loose contact and vibration.

I generated a bunch of red faces as soon as I showed up where I worked. The problem
machine had loose screws on about every device in it. The maintenance staff had replaced
the light curtains a couple times convinced that the curtains were the problem. NOT.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Ed Huntress wrote:

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

I bought a well - worn 8060A about 14 years ago from a recycling house
and used it for about six years.

It was around then that a buddy of mine told me he planned to go home
for a friend's wedding in India. His friend serviced electronics for a
living and 'got by' with an ancient VTVM (Remember those?).

I wanted to make sure the 8060A worked flawlessly before giving it to my
buddy as a gift for his friend. I sent the meter to Fluke.
They responded that it worked properly but there was significant wear on
the switches. They suggested that for a very nominal fee, the entire
guts of the unit could be replaced with NOS parts and they would ship it
back to me with a fresh calibration certificate. I gave them the 'go
ahead' and they shipped the meter back as promised. I put it in a new
travel case with some new Fluke test leads.

The look of astonishment and happiness on my buddy's face made the
whole enterprise worth it, especially when I explained that his friend
could look forward to many years of service from the meter because of
the NOS circuit card and display.

Life doesn't get much better than that.

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g

But I want to know what kind of battery that is. Jeez.

That would be:
BT1 Battery, 9 V, NEDA 1604/IEC 6F22, or NEDA 1604A/IEC 6LR61

You can order this exotic part (696534 or 614487) from Fluke, but I
suspect you can 'get by' with the drug store variety just fine.

From:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Pr...(FlukeProducts)


--Winston

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

wrote:
... Fluke multimeter, ... If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.
...

I have an older Fluke bench DMM whose factory specs were impressive.
Present calibration unknown but more than adequate, I'm sure, for my
needs. There have been occasions when I used both the Fluke and the $3
HF DMM for the same test and the readings were essentially identical.
I.e., well within the precision that I was interested in. A couple %, IIRC.

YMMV,
Bob

Yep, some of the HF stuff is quite good. I have a few of the HF digital
calipers and also the 0-3" micrometer set. Since the micrometer set
includes 1" and 2" standards, I checked them with the digital calipers
and what do you know, I got readings of 1.0000" and 2.0000". At some
point I'll get a gauge block set, but certainly that little test was
promising.

What type of cells were driving them ?

Was it the display only or the electronics ?

Martin

Ignoramus3975 wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 5:04 pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

Flukes are made to be laboratory accuracy instruments, and the average
guy doesn't need one, so why spend the extra money. Some of us do need
them, and for different reasons. For ordinary measurement, I
generally use my ancient Simpson 260, or my Triplett 630. When I work
on semiconductor electronics I pull out the Fluke which has dated
calibration stickers on it.

Here is my experience with Fluke. After being bounced around from job
to job for about 8 years, it fell short of meeting calibration
accuracy requirements. The case was not damaged, but well worn. So I
sent it back to Fluke for repair and recalibration. Fluke in turn,
simply sent me a new meter! It passed calibration with flying colors
and now 15 years after my original purchase, it still passes it semi-
annual calibration tests and get a new certification sticker. Few
other multimeters can claim this, or is it something that the average
guy/gal needs?

Back when I purchased my first Fluke multimeter, the price was around
$300, today they are selling for under $100 if you shop around. If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.

Believe me, it's comforting to know that when the Fluke reads 4.915
volts from a 5V supply, the Fluke is unquestionably correct since its
calibration traces back to NIST standards.

Harry C.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:16:10 -0600, the renowned "Pete C."
wrote:


Bob Engelhardt wrote:

wrote:
... Fluke multimeter, ... If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.
...

I have an older Fluke bench DMM whose factory specs were impressive.
Present calibration unknown but more than adequate, I'm sure, for my
needs. There have been occasions when I used both the Fluke and the $3
HF DMM for the same test and the readings were essentially identical.
I.e., well within the precision that I was interested in. A couple %, IIRC.

YMMV,
Bob

Yep, some of the HF stuff is quite good. I have a few of the HF digital
calipers and also the 0-3" micrometer set. Since the micrometer set
includes 1" and 2" standards, I checked them with the digital calipers
and what do you know, I got readings of 1.0000" and 2.0000". At some
point I'll get a gauge block set, but certainly that little test was
promising.

Maybe they're programmed to read 1.0000/2.0000 when they get within
half a thou or so since someone is obviously checking the calibration.

;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:16:10 -0600, the renowned "Pete C."
wrote:


Bob Engelhardt wrote:

wrote:
... Fluke multimeter, ... If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.
...

I have an older Fluke bench DMM whose factory specs were impressive.
Present calibration unknown but more than adequate, I'm sure, for my
needs. There have been occasions when I used both the Fluke and the $3
HF DMM for the same test and the readings were essentially identical.
I.e., well within the precision that I was interested in. A couple %, IIRC.

YMMV,
Bob

Yep, some of the HF stuff is quite good. I have a few of the HF digital
calipers and also the 0-3" micrometer set. Since the micrometer set
includes 1" and 2" standards, I checked them with the digital calipers
and what do you know, I got readings of 1.0000" and 2.0000". At some
point I'll get a gauge block set, but certainly that little test was
promising.

Maybe they're programmed to read 1.0000/2.0000 when they get within
half a thou or so since someone is obviously checking the calibration.

;-)

I guess we'll find out when I get a gauge block set...

Robert Swinney wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 5:04 pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

Flukes are made to be laboratory accuracy instruments, and the average
guy doesn't need one, so why spend the extra money. Some of us do need
them, and for different reasons. For ordinary measurement, I
generally use my ancient Simpson 260, or my Triplett 630. When I work
on semiconductor electronics I pull out the Fluke which has dated
calibration stickers on it.

Here is my experience with Fluke. After being bounced around from job
to job for about 8 years, it fell short of meeting calibration
accuracy requirements. The case was not damaged, but well worn. So I
sent it back to Fluke for repair and recalibration. Fluke in turn,
simply sent me a new meter! It passed calibration with flying colors
and now 15 years after my original purchase, it still passes it semi-
annual calibration tests and get a new certification sticker. Few
other multimeters can claim this, or is it something that the average
guy/gal needs?

Back when I purchased my first Fluke multimeter, the price was around
$300, today they are selling for under $100 if you shop around. If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.

Believe me, it's comforting to know that when the Fluke reads 4.915
volts from a 5V supply, the Fluke is unquestionably correct since its
calibration traces back to NIST standards.

Harry C.

I don't recall anyone comparing HF meters to Fluke meters in terms of
quality or precision accuracy.

What was indicated is that the $3 HF meters work just fine for routine
metering activities around a shop, and are so cheap you can put one in
every vehicle and every toolbox so they are always handy. It was also
noted that leaving a $3 meter in the truck in -10 to +104 weather was
far less of a concern than a $300 Fluke.

Again, this all relates to routing shop and auto use, not laboratory or
electronics test bench use. We're measuring voltages of 12-14VDC or
200-480VAC in units of Volta, not microVolts and currents in units of
amps, not microAmps.

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
What type of cells were driving them ?

Was it the display only or the electronics ?

ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. They have completely different
displays and uses.

I suggest a drop test between an agilent 34401 and a 4 foot shop light.
They both have flourescent bulbs/displays.

"Cydrome Leader" wrote (clip) ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

On 2008-11-10, Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Cydrome Leader" wrote (clip) ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

Cydrome leader thought that my Harbor Freight multimeter is a scope.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Ignoramus14646" wrote: Cydrome leader thought that my Harbor Freight
multimeter is a scope.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Like the doctor uses to listen to your chest? They often feel like they've
been in the freezer. I've never seen a digital stethoscope, but I have my
pulse digitally (fingers of my right hand.)

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

I bought a well - worn 8060A about 14 years ago from a recycling house and
used it for about six years.

It was around then that a buddy of mine told me he planned to go home
for a friend's wedding in India. His friend serviced electronics for a
living and 'got by' with an ancient VTVM (Remember those?).

I wanted to make sure the 8060A worked flawlessly before giving it to my
buddy as a gift for his friend. I sent the meter to Fluke.
They responded that it worked properly but there was significant wear on
the switches. They suggested that for a very nominal fee, the entire
guts of the unit could be replaced with NOS parts and they would ship it
back to me with a fresh calibration certificate. I gave them the 'go
ahead' and they shipped the meter back as promised. I put it in a new
travel case with some new Fluke test leads.

The look of astonishment and happiness on my buddy's face made the
whole enterprise worth it, especially when I explained that his friend
could look forward to many years of service from the meter because of
the NOS circuit card and display.

Life doesn't get much better than that.

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g

But I want to know what kind of battery that is. Jeez.

That would be:
BT1 Battery, 9 V, NEDA 1604/IEC 6F22, or NEDA 1604A/IEC 6LR61

You can order this exotic part (696534 or 614487) from Fluke, but I
suspect you can 'get by' with the drug store variety just fine.

From:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Pr...(FlukeProducts)


--Winston

Thanks, Winston. Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?
Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm always
astonished when it turns on.

--
Ed Huntress

Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Cydrome Leader" wrote (clip) ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

yes. Its a discontinued over a decade ago portable scope with some DMM
functionality.

It probably runs off lead acid or nicad batteries.

Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?

Not me, Ed.
That greatly surpasses the shelf life of a mercury cell at *only* 10 years.

Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm always
astonished when it turns on.

I'm interested to know what kind of battery you have in that meter!
Did you buy it from a Metaluna catalog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Luckily you have at least one more DMM so you can measure that 75's
current in another decade or so, yes?

Those folks who design super low power yet feature - rich gear are
indistinguishable from geniuses, IMHO.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

I bought a well - worn 8060A about 14 years ago from a recycling house and
used it for about six years.

It was around then that a buddy of mine told me he planned to go home
for a friend's wedding in India. His friend serviced electronics for a
living and 'got by' with an ancient VTVM (Remember those?).

I wanted to make sure the 8060A worked flawlessly before giving it to my
buddy as a gift for his friend. I sent the meter to Fluke.
They responded that it worked properly but there was significant wear on
the switches. They suggested that for a very nominal fee, the entire
guts of the unit could be replaced with NOS parts and they would ship it
back to me with a fresh calibration certificate. I gave them the 'go
ahead' and they shipped the meter back as promised. I put it in a new
travel case with some new Fluke test leads.

The look of astonishment and happiness on my buddy's face made the
whole enterprise worth it, especially when I explained that his friend
could look forward to many years of service from the meter because of
the NOS circuit card and display.

Life doesn't get much better than that.

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g

But I want to know what kind of battery that is. Jeez.

That would be:
BT1 Battery, 9 V, NEDA 1604/IEC 6F22, or NEDA 1604A/IEC 6LR61

You can order this exotic part (696534 or 614487) from Fluke, but I
suspect you can 'get by' with the drug store variety just fine.

From:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Pr...(FlukeProducts)


--Winston

You inspired me to call Fluke and tell them about my original 26-year-old
ordinary alkaline battery, and the technician chuckled and said "yeah, we
hear that all the time." I'm still amazed. It's an ordinary 9V battery. And
the low-battery indicator on the meter still isn't showing.

--
Ed Huntress

On Nov 8, 10:38*pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

Tim.

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?

Not me, Ed.
That greatly surpasses the shelf life of a mercury cell at *only* 10
years.

Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm
always astonished when it turns on.

I'm interested to know what kind of battery you have in that meter!
Did you buy it from a Metaluna catalog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Luckily you have at least one more DMM so you can measure that 75's
current in another decade or so, yes?

Those folks who design super low power yet feature - rich gear are
indistinguishable from geniuses, IMHO.

--Winston

I was one minute too quick in sending my last message; I didn't see this one
before I sent you the one about my call to Fluke.

Anyway, I'm worried about it leaking, so I opened it up to replace it. It's
the original equipment in there, and it's an "Eveready 9V General Purpose
Battery." It doesn't say alkaline, but I'm sure it is. No leaks. And I
haven't seen that cat and the "9" on a battery for a while. g

The only thing odd about it is that it says "Made in U.S.A." on the side.
Imagine that.

--
Ed Huntress

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Nov 8, 10:38?pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

Tim.

Bingo.

it also depends on how old they are. LCD actually age with use. The
contrast starts to really drop, even for 7 segment displays.

On 2008-11-10, Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Nov 8, 10:38?pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The test was a poor one, (probably mostly was testing the respective
batteries in the meters), but it shows that the HF one functions under
cold conditions.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Yep

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

I actually agree with everyone here who was praising Flukes, etc. But
in my truck toolbox, which I mostly use for buying things, testing
stuff to buy and getting stuff home, I have a disposable HF meter.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

It's an ordinary 9V battery. And
the low-battery indicator on the meter still isn't showing.

It's easy to acclimate to performance like that!

The only thing odd about it is that it says "Made in U.S.A." on the side.
Imagine that.

Well, *there's* your problem!

--Winston

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:01:51 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?

Not me, Ed.
That greatly surpasses the shelf life of a mercury cell at *only* 10
years.

Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm
always astonished when it turns on.

I'm interested to know what kind of battery you have in that meter!
Did you buy it from a Metaluna catalog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Luckily you have at least one more DMM so you can measure that 75's
current in another decade or so, yes?

Those folks who design super low power yet feature - rich gear are
indistinguishable from geniuses, IMHO.

--Winston

I was one minute too quick in sending my last message; I didn't see this one
before I sent you the one about my call to Fluke.

Anyway, I'm worried about it leaking, so I opened it up to replace it. It's
the original equipment in there, and it's an "Eveready 9V General Purpose
Battery." It doesn't say alkaline, but I'm sure it is. No leaks. And I
haven't seen that cat and the "9" on a battery for a while. g

Don't be too sure. At low current draw, alkalines don't have hardly
any advantage over the old school ones. Is it red? I think that's a
good old-fashioned carbon-zinc Leclanché cell. I think the cheap
meters currently use a COB mounted Chinese knock-off of the 1970s-era
7106 chip which draw about 1mA all by itself, so the life won't be
more than 400-500 hours 'on'. The original US maker came out with a
chip that is 10x lower power consumption-- that might be what Fluke
used.

The only thing odd about it is that it says "Made in U.S.A." on the side.
Imagine that.

I know they used to make batteries in North America-- I went to an
auction of an alkaline battery plant only a few years ago. Chemicals,
a bit of metal forming, material handling, and a lot of automated
packaging, with some appropriate test equipment in the lab. They were
making OEM batteries for guys like Costco (Kirkland) and Sam's Club.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Ignoramus14646 wrote:

(...)

I actually agree with everyone here who was praising Flukes, etc. But
in my truck toolbox, which I mostly use for buying things, testing
stuff to buy and getting stuff home, I have a disposable HF meter.

Hey, I'm not a total Fluke snob. The good tools do stay at home, mostly.

I've got an ancient Radio Shack DMM in the car.
Though one needs to move the probes to measure voltage vs. resistance,
it has rescued me and my pals more than once.

--Winston

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:01:51 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?

Not me, Ed.
That greatly surpasses the shelf life of a mercury cell at *only* 10
years.

Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm
always astonished when it turns on.

I'm interested to know what kind of battery you have in that meter!
Did you buy it from a Metaluna catalog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Luckily you have at least one more DMM so you can measure that 75's
current in another decade or so, yes?

Those folks who design super low power yet feature - rich gear are
indistinguishable from geniuses, IMHO.

--Winston

I was one minute too quick in sending my last message; I didn't see this
one
before I sent you the one about my call to Fluke.

Anyway, I'm worried about it leaking, so I opened it up to replace it.
It's
the original equipment in there, and it's an "Eveready 9V General Purpose
Battery." It doesn't say alkaline, but I'm sure it is. No leaks. And I
haven't seen that cat and the "9" on a battery for a while. g

Don't be too sure. At low current draw, alkalines don't have hardly
any advantage over the old school ones. Is it red? I think that's a
good old-fashioned carbon-zinc Leclanché cell.

Aha! Yes, it's solid red.

So what should I do here, Sphero? Will I be OK with a good alkaline cell to
replace it?

It still works fine. Maybe I should just leave it in there?

Thanks.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

I bought a well - worn 8060A about 14 years ago from a recycling house
and used it for about six years.

It was around then that a buddy of mine told me he planned to go home
for a friend's wedding in India. His friend serviced electronics for a
living and 'got by' with an ancient VTVM (Remember those?).

I wanted to make sure the 8060A worked flawlessly before giving it to my
buddy as a gift for his friend. I sent the meter to Fluke.
They responded that it worked properly but there was significant wear on
the switches. They suggested that for a very nominal fee, the entire
guts of the unit could be replaced with NOS parts and they would ship it
back to me with a fresh calibration certificate. I gave them the 'go
ahead' and they shipped the meter back as promised. I put it in a new
travel case with some new Fluke test leads.

The look of astonishment and happiness on my buddy's face made the
whole enterprise worth it, especially when I explained that his friend
could look forward to many years of service from the meter because of
the NOS circuit card and display.

Life doesn't get much better than that.

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g

But I want to know what kind of battery that is. Jeez.

That would be:
BT1 Battery, 9 V, NEDA 1604/IEC 6F22, or NEDA 1604A/IEC 6LR61

You can order this exotic part (696534 or 614487) from Fluke, but I
suspect you can 'get by' with the drug store variety just fine.

From:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Pr...(FlukeProducts)


--Winston

You inspired me to call Fluke and tell them about my original 26-year-old
ordinary alkaline battery, and the technician chuckled and said "yeah, we
hear that all the time." I'm still amazed. It's an ordinary 9V battery.
And the low-battery indicator on the meter still isn't showing.

--
Ed Huntress

My Fluke had the same battery it came with in 1987. The amp circuit fuse
popped one day last summer so I changed the battery too when I had the cover
off. I wish everything I own was as dependable as my Fluke.
Steve

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:16:22 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Nov 8, 10:38?pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

Tim.

Bingo.

it also depends on how old they are. LCD actually age with use. The
contrast starts to really drop, even for 7 segment displays.

The dot matrix LCDs are multiplexed and have inherently limited
temperature range since they have to be biased almost-on. They can be
temperature compensated with some circuitry but it isn't perfect. The
advantage is that you can have something like 3,4, or 16 commons and
then each driver serves that many segments or dots, which is the only
practical way to do a display with a lot of segments or dots.

The widest temperature range LCDs are static drive (one common and one
driver per segment) and use a special wide-range liquid crystal fluid
that may require more voltage. That's what you'd find in a car, for
example, where you expect it to work reasonably well on a cold morning
after sitting outside.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:01:51 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?

Not me, Ed.
That greatly surpasses the shelf life of a mercury cell at *only* 10
years.

Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm
always astonished when it turns on.

I'm interested to know what kind of battery you have in that meter!
Did you buy it from a Metaluna catalog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Luckily you have at least one more DMM so you can measure that 75's
current in another decade or so, yes?

Those folks who design super low power yet feature - rich gear are
indistinguishable from geniuses, IMHO.

--Winston

I was one minute too quick in sending my last message; I didn't see this
one
before I sent you the one about my call to Fluke.

Anyway, I'm worried about it leaking, so I opened it up to replace it.
It's
the original equipment in there, and it's an "Eveready 9V General Purpose
Battery." It doesn't say alkaline, but I'm sure it is. No leaks. And I
haven't seen that cat and the "9" on a battery for a while. g

Don't be too sure. At low current draw, alkalines don't have hardly
any advantage over the old school ones. Is it red? I think that's a
good old-fashioned carbon-zinc Leclanché cell.

Aha! Yes, it's solid red.

So what should I do here, Sphero? Will I be OK with a good alkaline cell
to replace it?

It still works fine. Maybe I should just leave it in there?

Thanks.

--
Ed Huntress

I think I answered my own question. I just read the tech sheet from Eveready
on Leclanche cells:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/carbonzinc_appman.pdf

...., which contains information about their life and discharge
characteristics, and it looks like an alkaline replacement should be
perfectly OK.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:52:51 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:01:51 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
(...)

Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?

Not me, Ed.
That greatly surpasses the shelf life of a mercury cell at *only* 10
years.

Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm
always astonished when it turns on.

I'm interested to know what kind of battery you have in that meter!
Did you buy it from a Metaluna catalog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Luckily you have at least one more DMM so you can measure that 75's
current in another decade or so, yes?

Those folks who design super low power yet feature - rich gear are
indistinguishable from geniuses, IMHO.

--Winston

I was one minute too quick in sending my last message; I didn't see this
one
before I sent you the one about my call to Fluke.

Anyway, I'm worried about it leaking, so I opened it up to replace it.
It's
the original equipment in there, and it's an "Eveready 9V General Purpose
Battery." It doesn't say alkaline, but I'm sure it is. No leaks. And I
haven't seen that cat and the "9" on a battery for a while. g

Don't be too sure. At low current draw, alkalines don't have hardly
any advantage over the old school ones. Is it red? I think that's a
good old-fashioned carbon-zinc Leclanché cell.

Aha! Yes, it's solid red.

So what should I do here, Sphero? Will I be OK with a good alkaline cell to
replace it?

Sure. Or lithium if you want to go high-tech and not replace it for
the rest of your life. I sometimes buy the Panasonic zinc carbon cells
at the dollar store for low-drain applications like meters and wall
clocks.

It still works fine. Maybe I should just leave it in there?

Thanks.

Does it pass the lick test? ;-)
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Nov 10, 3:52 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
So what should I do here, Sphero? Will I be OK with a good alkaline cell to
replace it?

Change the batteries in your smoke detectors, and then use the ones
you pulled out in your meters.

-Brian

On Nov 10, 1:48*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
...
Thanks, Winston. Have you ever heard of a primary battery lasting 26 years?
Mine used to get fairly heavy use; now it's only infrequent. But I'm always
astonished when it turns on.
Ed Huntress

The original "Casio" AA batteries in my FX-81 calculator lasted over
20 years. I only changed them because I didn't want to risk them
failing during a test.