After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

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On Nov 8, 10:38 pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

Tune in next week to find out what happens when you boil them for five
minutes...

On Nov 8, 10:38*pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

Try it with identical batteries in both meters.

"Ignoramus3975" wrote in message
...
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.


And just what does this demonstrate or prove? I have one of the HF units,
it's functional. I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.

CarlBoyd

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.


Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

On Nov 9, 5:04*pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: *(clip) *I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? *Companies don't always supply tools. *I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

Flukes are made to be laboratory accuracy instruments, and the average
guy doesn't need one, so why spend the extra money. Some of us do need
them, and for different reasons. For ordinary measurement, I
generally use my ancient Simpson 260, or my Triplett 630. When I work
on semiconductor electronics I pull out the Fluke which has dated
calibration stickers on it.

Here is my experience with Fluke. After being bounced around from job
to job for about 8 years, it fell short of meeting calibration
accuracy requirements. The case was not damaged, but well worn. So I
sent it back to Fluke for repair and recalibration. Fluke in turn,
simply sent me a new meter! It passed calibration with flying colors
and now 15 years after my original purchase, it still passes it semi-
annual calibration tests and get a new certification sticker. Few
other multimeters can claim this, or is it something that the average
guy/gal needs?

Back when I purchased my first Fluke multimeter, the price was around
$300, today they are selling for under $100 if you shop around. If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.

Believe me, it's comforting to know that when the Fluke reads 4.915
volts from a 5V supply, the Fluke is unquestionably correct since its
calibration traces back to NIST standards.

Harry C.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 5:04 pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke,
when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

The battery in my Fluke 75 is now 26 years old and the meter still works
perfectly. I don't even know how to change it. g

But I want to know what kind of battery that is. Jeez.

--
Ed Huntress

wrote:
... Fluke multimeter, ... If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.
...

I have an older Fluke bench DMM whose factory specs were impressive.
Present calibration unknown but more than adequate, I'm sure, for my
needs. There have been occasions when I used both the Fluke and the $3
HF DMM for the same test and the readings were essentially identical.
I.e., well within the precision that I was interested in. A couple %, IIRC.

YMMV,
Bob

wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 5:04 pm, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Carl Boyd" wrote: (clip) I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And cheaper too, since your boss paid for it.

Are you sure? Companies don't always supply tools. I bought my own fluke, when it took
the fall that finally cracked the case, they replaced it.

Wes

Wes, Fluke makes amazing products that while not cheap, are definitely
worth the price that you pay for them. And yes, you do have to pay for
quality. To compare them with HF products (which are essentially throw
away items) is absurd.

Flukes are made to be laboratory accuracy instruments, and the average
guy doesn't need one, so why spend the extra money. Some of us do need
them, and for different reasons. For ordinary measurement, I
generally use my ancient Simpson 260, or my Triplett 630. When I work
on semiconductor electronics I pull out the Fluke which has dated
calibration stickers on it.

Here is my experience with Fluke. After being bounced around from job
to job for about 8 years, it fell short of meeting calibration
accuracy requirements. The case was not damaged, but well worn. So I
sent it back to Fluke for repair and recalibration. Fluke in turn,
simply sent me a new meter! It passed calibration with flying colors
and now 15 years after my original purchase, it still passes it semi-
annual calibration tests and get a new certification sticker. Few
other multimeters can claim this, or is it something that the average
guy/gal needs?

Back when I purchased my first Fluke multimeter, the price was around
$300, today they are selling for under $100 if you shop around. If you
need the precision, accuracy, and quality, it's money well spent. If
you don't, there is always HF or Radio Shack whose products can only
tell you if the power is turned on or turned off.

Believe me, it's comforting to know that when the Fluke reads 4.915
volts from a 5V supply, the Fluke is unquestionably correct since its
calibration traces back to NIST standards.

Harry C.

On 2008-11-09, Carl Boyd wrote:

"Ignoramus3975" wrote in message
...
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.


And just what does this demonstrate or prove? I have one of the HF units,
it's functional. I use a Fluke at work, it's much nicer.

What it does prove is that the HF multimeter does not stop working at
sub-freezing temperature.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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What type of cells were driving them ?

Was it the display only or the electronics ?

Martin

Ignoramus3975 wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
What type of cells were driving them ?

Was it the display only or the electronics ?

ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. They have completely different
displays and uses.

I suggest a drop test between an agilent 34401 and a 4 foot shop light.
They both have flourescent bulbs/displays.

"Cydrome Leader" wrote (clip) ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

On 2008-11-10, Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Cydrome Leader" wrote (clip) ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

Cydrome leader thought that my Harbor Freight multimeter is a scope.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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"Ignoramus14646" wrote: Cydrome leader thought that my Harbor Freight
multimeter is a scope.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Like the doctor uses to listen to your chest? They often feel like they've
been in the freezer. I've never seen a digital stethoscope, but I have my
pulse digitally (fingers of my right hand.)

Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Cydrome Leader" wrote (clip) ignorant is comparing a scope to a DMM. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

yes. Its a discontinued over a decade ago portable scope with some DMM
functionality.

It probably runs off lead acid or nicad batteries.

Cydrome Leader wrote:

A Fluke 97 is a 'scope?

yes. Its a discontinued over a decade ago portable scope with some DMM
functionality.

It probably runs off lead acid or nicad batteries.

I believe they were nicads. I had a 97 scopemeter in my custody until the bankruptcy.
Funny how when I came to the auction, the meter I left behind with the powersupply/charger
together was missing the later. Why do I think whoever bid on it just hapened to have a
spare powersupply/charger on hand?

Wes

On Nov 8, 10:38*pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

Tim.

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Nov 8, 10:38?pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

Tim.

Bingo.

it also depends on how old they are. LCD actually age with use. The
contrast starts to really drop, even for 7 segment displays.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:16:22 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Nov 8, 10:38?pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

Tim.

Bingo.

it also depends on how old they are. LCD actually age with use. The
contrast starts to really drop, even for 7 segment displays.

The dot matrix LCDs are multiplexed and have inherently limited
temperature range since they have to be biased almost-on. They can be
temperature compensated with some circuitry but it isn't perfect. The
advantage is that you can have something like 3,4, or 16 commons and
then each driver serves that many segments or dots, which is the only
practical way to do a display with a lot of segments or dots.

The widest temperature range LCDs are static drive (one common and one
driver per segment) and use a special wide-range liquid crystal fluid
that may require more voltage. That's what you'd find in a car, for
example, where you expect it to work reasonably well on a cold morning
after sitting outside.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On 2008-11-10, Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Nov 8, 10:38?pm, Ignoramus3975
wrote:
After spending half an hour in the freezer...

Fluke 97 was not functioning at all, but the Harbor Freight $3.99
multimeter continued to show function.

I think you're mostly measuring the point at which the LCD display
stops responding. Maybe if you had cranked the contrast all the way up
you could've seen it.

The test was a poor one, (probably mostly was testing the respective
batteries in the meters), but it shows that the HF one functions under
cold conditions.

The Fluke 97 scopemeter is a dot-matrix LCD display and won't work
well at all below freezing. The manual says operating range stops at
0deg C.

The Harbor Freight $3.99 unit is a 7-segment type LCD display and will
do quite a bit better below freezing.

Yep

Twenty or thirty years ago the 7-segment LCD displays got awfully
SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWW below maybe 40F. They have improved low-temperature
over the years but the dot-matrix LCD's are still not as
environmentally versatile.

I actually agree with everyone here who was praising Flukes, etc. But
in my truck toolbox, which I mostly use for buying things, testing
stuff to buy and getting stuff home, I have a disposable HF meter.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Ignoramus14646 wrote:

(...)

I actually agree with everyone here who was praising Flukes, etc. But
in my truck toolbox, which I mostly use for buying things, testing
stuff to buy and getting stuff home, I have a disposable HF meter.

Hey, I'm not a total Fluke snob. The good tools do stay at home, mostly.

I've got an ancient Radio Shack DMM in the car.
Though one needs to move the probes to measure voltage vs. resistance,
it has rescued me and my pals more than once.

--Winston

Winston wrote:
Ignoramus14646 wrote:

(...)

I actually agree with everyone here who was praising Flukes, etc. But
in my truck toolbox, which I mostly use for buying things, testing
stuff to buy and getting stuff home, I have a disposable HF meter.

Hey, I'm not a total Fluke snob. The good tools do stay at home, mostly.

I've got an ancient Radio Shack DMM in the car.
Though one needs to move the probes to measure voltage vs. resistance,
it has rescued me and my pals more than once.

Those things were actually pretty good. There's actually analog RS meter I
want to resurrect. One range got burned out pretty good, but it I still
have the schematics so a repair should not be too hard.

There's some appeal to an a needle and a scale over tons of digits
changing all the time.