What's the height from the floor to the top of the ram on a Bridgeport
J / 2J vertical mill?

Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer. The other alternative is
to slide it down a ramp of some sort with a comealong winching it
down. I'm not thrilled about sliding a top heavy item with a narrow
base down a ramp.

RWL

On 2008-10-04, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane wrote:
What's the height from the floor to the top of the ram on a Bridgeport
J / 2J vertical mill?

download the manual from my site

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Bridgeport/

Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer.


Absolutely NOT. Not by far. I own both a bridgy and the crane. The
crane is indispensable, but cannot even approach a Bridgy.

The other alternative is
to slide it down a ramp of some sort with a comealong winching it
down. I'm not thrilled about sliding a top heavy item with a narrow
base down a ramp.

You can make it a lot less top heavy, and bolt to a makeshift pallet.

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Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:35:36 -0500, Ignoramus26581
wrote:

On 2008-10-04, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane wrote:
What's the height from the floor to the top of the ram on a Bridgeport
J / 2J vertical mill?

download the manual from my site

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Bridgeport/


Thanks, but not in the manual I need. The round ram one has the
dimension to the middle of the round ram as 54", but the manual for
the J head model doesn't have a dimension for the ram height at all. I
did some crude measurements on the J head drawing and assuming that
things are to scale it should be around 59-60", but I don't know if
that's close enough. I'm going down to Harbor Freight tomorrow AM,
hopefully to buy the 2T shop crane. I need to add BP ram height to
trailer deck height to see if the crane's boom can lift it. Can one
of you guys measure your Bridgie and post it?

RWL

Ignoramus26581 wrote:

Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer.

Absolutely NOT. Not by far. I own both a bridgy and the crane. The
crane is indispensable, but cannot even approach a Bridgy.

I used a generic 2-ton import engine hoist to lift a Bridgeport off of
a flatbed trailer. It worked fine with the legs all the way extended
and every bolt tightened. Just don't try to roll the hoist around with
the mill in the air - the caster pins will just crumple. I made a dolly
with a lot of clearance underneath to roll over the engine hoist legs.

Pick up mill. Move trailer out from underneath it. Roll dolly under mill.
Let down on dolly. Roll mill to where you need it. Reposition engine hoist.
Lift mill slightly. Remove dolly. Set mill down gently between hoist legs
(make sure ahead of time it will fit!). Remove engine hoist & dolly,
skid mill slightly to get it into final position.

Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Grant Erwin wrote:

Ignoramus26581 wrote:

Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer.

Absolutely NOT. Not by far. I own both a bridgy and the crane. The
crane is indispensable, but cannot even approach a Bridgy.

I used a generic 2-ton import engine hoist to lift a Bridgeport off of
a flatbed trailer. It worked fine with the legs all the way extended
and every bolt tightened. Just don't try to roll the hoist around with
the mill in the air - the caster pins will just crumple. I made a dolly
with a lot of clearance underneath to roll over the engine hoist legs.

Pick up mill. Move trailer out from underneath it. Roll dolly under mill.
Let down on dolly. Roll mill to where you need it. Reposition engine hoist.
Lift mill slightly. Remove dolly. Set mill down gently between hoist legs
(make sure ahead of time it will fit!). Remove engine hoist & dolly,
skid mill slightly to get it into final position.

Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I highly recommend using the hoist to remove the head/ram assembly from
the base and moving them separately. This is a simple matter of removing
the four bolts that attach it to the base. When moving a Bridgeport with
something like an engine hoist this makes the process a lot easier and
safer by significantly lowering the CG as well as the total weight
lifted at one time.

Pete C. wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:

Ignoramus26581 wrote:


Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer.

Absolutely NOT. Not by far. I own both a bridgy and the crane. The
crane is indispensable, but cannot even approach a Bridgy.

I used a generic 2-ton import engine hoist to lift a Bridgeport off of
a flatbed trailer. It worked fine with the legs all the way extended
and every bolt tightened. Just don't try to roll the hoist around with
the mill in the air - the caster pins will just crumple. I made a dolly
with a lot of clearance underneath to roll over the engine hoist legs.

Pick up mill. Move trailer out from underneath it. Roll dolly under mill.
Let down on dolly. Roll mill to where you need it. Reposition engine hoist.
Lift mill slightly. Remove dolly. Set mill down gently between hoist legs
(make sure ahead of time it will fit!). Remove engine hoist & dolly,
skid mill slightly to get it into final position.

Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I highly recommend using the hoist to remove the head/ram assembly from
the base and moving them separately. This is a simple matter of removing
the four bolts that attach it to the base. When moving a Bridgeport with
something like an engine hoist this makes the process a lot easier and
safer by significantly lowering the CG as well as the total weight
lifted at one time.

It would be easy and safe until the head/ram assembly tips over on you.
The mill's CG is pretty much under the 5/8-11 hole on top of the ram,
but if you lift the ram/head by that lifting hole, there's no guarantee
that it will be balanced at all. So do it dang carefully.

Plus, that leaves you with no good way to lift the mill. The lifting eye
is gone, as are the front/back of the ram. The former is the way to lift
with a single point, the latter are the way to pick up the mill using
a sling to a single hook or using a forklift. With the top off the mill,
all bets are off. Maybe you could bolt some chain to the body, using the
4 holes on top where the ram connected.

Have you ever done this, Pete?

Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote:

What's the height from the floor to the top of the ram on a Bridgeport
J / 2J vertical mill?

Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer. The other alternative is
to slide it down a ramp of some sort with a comealong winching it
down. I'm not thrilled about sliding a top heavy item with a narrow
base down a ramp.

RWL

I put up a couple pages from a manual here.

http://www.garage-machinist.com/Brid...portHeight.jpg
http://www.garage-machinist.com/Brid...eportWidth.jpg

Some dimensions are on it and you can scale the rest.

I'd consider removing the head from the machine and stowing it in your truck.
Then take off the ram, turret, and adaptor off, a good 350#+ off and lashing that down,
then put the headless base on your trailer.

http://wess.freeshell.org/usenet/rec...C02983_vga.jpg


It is pretty stable then.

HTH,

Wes

GeoLane at PTD dot NET writes:

Can one of you guys measure your Bridgie and post it?

60 inches from floor to top of ram (that is, where the 5/8-11 lifting eye
goes). This is the J head model, aka 1J, not the newer 2J or older M head.

Suggest you get some 10 ft sections of SuperStrut from Home Depot, and C-
clamp them across the hoist legs, as outriggers to provide some backup
stability. Just might save your bacon if she decides to tip. Your sturdy,
rigid little hoist will start to feel like it's made of springy fishing
rods once you load it up with 2000 lbs of Bridgeport.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:06:36 -0400, Wes wrote:

I put up a couple pages from a manual here.

http://www.garage-machinist.com/Brid...portHeight.jpg

Thanks. Iggy had that diagram too. That's the one I used to do the
calculation that it should be about 59-60". Sadly, the measurement
itself isn't on the diagram and an inch or two may be critical
depending on the height of the trailer.

I've found a couple sites with photos of how you guys have moved your
BPs. If I can lift the entire mill without removing the head, that
would be easiest. Probably going to have to roll it on pipes on
planks over the level grass to the back door of the cellar. Yeah,
when I built my house 22 years ago I made sure I had a walk in door
after having to pull a Clausing lathe and my Hardinge UM mill up
steps. Shoulda had a wider door put in to eliminate the need for
possibly having to remove the BP's table, but money was tighter then.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions / help so far and thanks
Richard for measuring yours. Off now to Harbor Freight in
Harrisburg. There's one that will be closer to me in Williamsport
starting Nov 1st. My first trip to a HF store today.


RWL in beautiful central PA
(on a rainy Saturday AM )

Grant Erwin wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:

Ignoramus26581 wrote:


Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift it up off of the trailer.

Absolutely NOT. Not by far. I own both a bridgy and the crane. The
crane is indispensable, but cannot even approach a Bridgy.

I used a generic 2-ton import engine hoist to lift a Bridgeport off of
a flatbed trailer. It worked fine with the legs all the way extended
and every bolt tightened. Just don't try to roll the hoist around with
the mill in the air - the caster pins will just crumple. I made a dolly
with a lot of clearance underneath to roll over the engine hoist legs.

Pick up mill. Move trailer out from underneath it. Roll dolly under mill.
Let down on dolly. Roll mill to where you need it. Reposition engine hoist.
Lift mill slightly. Remove dolly. Set mill down gently between hoist legs
(make sure ahead of time it will fit!). Remove engine hoist & dolly,
skid mill slightly to get it into final position.

Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I highly recommend using the hoist to remove the head/ram assembly from
the base and moving them separately. This is a simple matter of removing
the four bolts that attach it to the base. When moving a Bridgeport with
something like an engine hoist this makes the process a lot easier and
safer by significantly lowering the CG as well as the total weight
lifted at one time.

It would be easy and safe until the head/ram assembly tips over on you.
The mill's CG is pretty much under the 5/8-11 hole on top of the ram,
but if you lift the ram/head by that lifting hole, there's no guarantee
that it will be balanced at all. So do it dang carefully.

Plus, that leaves you with no good way to lift the mill. The lifting eye
is gone, as are the front/back of the ram. The former is the way to lift
with a single point, the latter are the way to pick up the mill using
a sling to a single hook or using a forklift. With the top off the mill,
all bets are off. Maybe you could bolt some chain to the body, using the
4 holes on top where the ram connected.

Have you ever done this, Pete?

Several times before I got a forklift. The lift point for the base is a
piece of unistrut attached across the two front holes on the base where
the ram attaches.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:11:21 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:
Suggest you get some 10 ft sections of SuperStrut from Home Depot, and C-
clamp them across the hoist legs, as outriggers to provide some backup
stability. Just might save your bacon if she decides to tip. Your sturdy,
rigid little hoist will start to feel like it's made of springy fishing
rods once you load it up with 2000 lbs of Bridgeport.

Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?

Outriggers might have made things do-able if I'd had them last
Thursday when I brought the Bridgie home. The crane was sitting on
level dirt, but it was uneven enough that it tilted slighly to one
side when we were picking up the BP, so in the end I had to get the
neighbor to bring over his Bobcat and lift it off for me.

Lots of little things need to be fixed on this machine, so I'll be
posting a bunch of questions.

Hoping to get the TECO VFD set up on Tuesday.

RWL

RWL wrote:
Reason I'm asking is to try and determine if a Harbor Freight shop
crane (2 ton) has enough height / reach to slide under the end of a
trailer and lift a Bridgeport up off of the trailer.


I used a generic 2-ton import engine hoist to lift a Bridgeport off of
a flatbed trailer. It worked fine with the legs all the way extended
and every bolt tightened.
Grant

Pete C. wrote:
I highly recommend using the hoist to remove the head/ram assembly from
the base and moving them separately.

Grant Erwin wrote:
It would be easy and safe until the head/ram assembly tips over on you.
The mill's CG is pretty much under the 5/8-11 hole on top of the ram,
but if you lift the ram/head by that lifting hole, there's no guarantee
that it will be balanced at all. So do it dang carefully.

Plus, that leaves you with no good way to lift the mill. The lifting eye
is gone, as are the front/back of the ram. The former is the way to lift
with a single point, the latter are the way to pick up the mill using
a sling to a single hook or using a forklift. With the top off the mill,
all bets are off. Maybe you could bolt some chain to the body, using the
4 holes on top where the ram connected.

Have you ever done this, Pete?

Pete C. wrote:
Several times before I got a forklift. The lift point for the base is a
piece of unistrut attached across the two front holes on the base where
the ram attaches.

Both of you guys are the voice of experience, but I wanted to confirm
that what Pete said about removing the head, ram & turret to lighten
the load works OK. We were flailing trying to figure out how to get
the mill off the U-Haul trailer with a semi-stable HF shop crane.
Removing those components made it lighter and we hoped to be able to
have enough stability to lift the remainder. I left the yoke inside
the casting and attached two short pieces of unistrut I'd saved years
ago. I put two 2x4's under the unistrut (perpendicular) as the place
to lift because I was afraid of breaking the yoke casting inside the
BP column. It would have been easier if I'd remembered that you could
lift from the front unistrut section alone. The mill did indeed want
to tip forward toward the Bobcat offloading it, so we put a second
sling under the knee to hold it level.

The move would have been very entertaining for those of you with
experience and better equipment. I couldn't find a 5/8-11 eyebolt
locally, and as an afterthought called a guy in the maintenance dept
at work to see where I might find one. He said he had several and
would send one over on the day of the move with my supervisor, who was
helping me move the mill. When he got home, he realized that all of
his eyebolts were 3/4-something. He welded a 5/8-11 stem onto the
side and sent it to me. The weld looked pretty good, but I wondered
if Frank was a good welder. We put it in use and it held. Think I'll
buy one for the next move though.

Going to pick up a 6x12 Boyer Schultz surface grinder in the Philly
area tomorrow. The info on the web says it should weigh 800 lbs, but
the guy who's selling it says he can walk it around the factory floor
on his own and doesn't think it weighs that much. We'll see. I'm
still mulling over a way to make outriggers for the HF shop crane to
get it off my pickup tomorrow.

RWL

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:16:18 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?

Electrical supply house. Most sell to the public.

Wes

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...

On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:11:21 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:
Suggest you get some 10 ft sections of SuperStrut from Home Depot, and C-
clamp them across the hoist legs, as outriggers to provide some backup
stability. Just might save your bacon if she decides to tip. Your sturdy,
rigid little hoist will start to feel like it's made of springy fishing
rods once you load it up with 2000 lbs of Bridgeport.

Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?

Outriggers might have made things do-able if I'd had them last
Thursday when I brought the Bridgie home. The crane was sitting on
level dirt, but it was uneven enough that it tilted slighly to one
side when we were picking up the BP, so in the end I had to get the
neighbor to bring over his Bobcat and lift it off for me.

Lots of little things need to be fixed on this machine, so I'll be
posting a bunch of questions.

Hoping to get the TECO VFD set up on Tuesday.

RWL


Don't waste your time at the Home Depot web site. It's in the electrical aisle at the
stores....

GeoLane at PTD dot NET writes:

He welded a 5/8-11 stem onto the
side and sent it to me. The weld looked pretty good, but I wondered
if Frank was a good welder. We put it in use and it held. Think I'll
buy one for the next move though.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=745

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:16:18 -0400, the infamous GeoLane at PTD dot
NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET scrawled the following:


On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:11:21 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:
Suggest you get some 10 ft sections of SuperStrut from Home Depot, and C-
clamp them across the hoist legs, as outriggers to provide some backup
stability. Just might save your bacon if she decides to tip. Your sturdy,
rigid little hoist will start to feel like it's made of springy fishing
rods once you load it up with 2000 lbs of Bridgeport.

Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?

I bought some 1-5/8" square Unistrut at HD last year, when I bought my
truck. I cut it and used it in place of the $165 (through Toyota) bed
rail system. Cost: $20 for a 10' stick, $20 more for some t-nuts,
bolts, & pipe clamps. The low-profile stuff (1-5/8" x 13/16", no
holes) was $15/stick.

They don't show it online, but it's in the electrical section.
Sparkies use it for hanging conduit. (Right, Bruce?)

If you can't find it at your local HD, call some of the electrical
supply houses (Platt Electric Supply up here in PNW) for it. It'll be
$35-44 a stick, but you'll find it. What a crock!

Cheaper source, plus (outrageous?) shipping fees
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-U-cln-Unistrut-Electrical-Raceway/Categories



Outriggers might have made things do-able if I'd had them last
Thursday when I brought the Bridgie home. The crane was sitting on
level dirt, but it was uneven enough that it tilted slighly to one
side when we were picking up the BP, so in the end I had to get the
neighbor to bring over his Bobcat and lift it off for me.

Hey, nice neighbors!

--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn

On Oct 20, 3:13*am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
GeoLane at PTD dot NET writes:

*He welded a 5/8-11 stem onto the
side and sent it to me. *The weld looked pretty good, but I wondered
if Frank was a good welder. *We put it in use and it held. *Think I'll
buy one for the next move though.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=745

The local hardware store (True Value?) here sells similar 1/2", 2100
Lb eye bolts for a buck or two more, with no shipping charge of
course.

Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?



I bought some 1-5/8" square Unistrut at HD last year,

I measured the two short pieces I have in the shop. They're 1-5/8.
Pretty strong stuff, but I was wondering if they had larger sizes.
What I was thinking of doing was putting it inside the legs of the
shop crane, extended out maybe 6" and then with a screw type foot that
could be used to level the crane on soft or uneven surfaces.

If you can't find it at your local HD, call some of the electrical
supply houses (Platt Electric Supply up here in PNW) for it. It'll be
$35-44 a stick, but you'll find it. What a crock!

Cheaper source, plus (outrageous?) shipping fees
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-U-cln-Unistrut-Electrical-Raceway/Categories


....................so in the end I had to get the
neighbor to bring over his Bobcat and lift it off for me.

Hey, nice neighbors!

Yeah. He is a nice guy. I paid his son in law to move some trees for
me with the Bobcat last spring. I offered to pay him when he lifted
the Bridgeport off the trailer but he declined. I think he was just
amused at what I was hauling into my cellar.

Thanks to all of you who answered my question.

RWL

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:55:17 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Oct 20, 3:13*am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
GeoLane at PTD dot NET writes:

*He welded a 5/8-11 stem onto the
side and sent it to me. *The weld looked pretty good, but I wondered
if Frank was a good welder. *We put it in use and it held. *Think I'll
buy one for the next move though.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=745

The local hardware store (True Value?) here sells similar 1/2", 2100
Lb eye bolts for a buck or two more, with no shipping charge of
course.

Gotta have 5/8-11. All the local stores I visited had only up to
1/2". I heard indirectly that there's a place that has larger sizes
locally, so I'll have to find that place.

RWL

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:02:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?

I bought some 1-5/8" square Unistrut at HD last year, when I bought my
truck. I cut it and used it in place of the $165 (through Toyota) bed
rail system. Cost: $20 for a 10' stick, $20 more for some t-nuts,
bolts, & pipe clamps. The low-profile stuff (1-5/8" x 13/16", no
holes) was $15/stick.

They don't show it online, but it's in the electrical section.
Sparkies use it for hanging conduit. (Right, Bruce?)

If you can't find it at your local HD, call some of the electrical
supply houses (Platt Electric Supply up here in PNW) for it. It'll be
$35-44 a stick, but you'll find it. What a crock!


Im paying $11.24 a stick at Hanks Electric in Costa Mesa, California


Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

On 2008-10-21, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane wrote:
Gotta have 5/8-11. All the local stores I visited had only up to
1/2". I heard indirectly that there's a place that has larger sizes
locally, so I'll have to find that place.

I bought mine at McMaster-Carr.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:37:54 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:02:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Is there another name for SuperStrut. I looked also for Unistrut at
the home depot web site but couldn't find any listing for it. Any
place besides Home Depot to look for this sort of steel?

It will be called a multitude of things depending on who made it,
usually with 'strut' in the name. Trademarks, dont'cha know... ;-)

McMaster: Strut Channel. They aren't giving it away, but it's the
good stuff. (Though you'll need the rubber hoses and bamboo slivers
to get the supplier name out of them without just ordering some...)

I bought some 1-5/8" square Unistrut at HD last year, when I bought my
truck. I cut it and used it in place of the $165 (through Toyota) bed
rail system. Cost: $20 for a 10' stick, $20 more for some t-nuts,
bolts, & pipe clamps. The low-profile stuff (1-5/8" x 13/16", no
holes) was $15/stick.

They don't show it online, but it's in the electrical section.
Sparkies use it for hanging conduit. (Right, Bruce?)

If you can't find it at your local HD, call some of the electrical
supply houses (Platt Electric Supply up here in PNW) for it. It'll be
$35-44 a stick, but you'll find it. What a crock!


Im paying $11.24 a stick at Hanks Electric in Costa Mesa, California

Yeah, but is that the good stuff? Or coming out of the Glorious
Peoples Republic Steel Foundry and Rice Noodle Factory in Shanghai?
(And it suspiciously bends like a noodle under stress...)

You might not want Mr. Electrical Inspector to try a chin-up using a
length of the fake strut as the exercise bar - after he gets out of
the hospital... He's gonna come back and pick the place apart with a
microscope, and he'll bring all his inspector buddies from the other
specialties. Talk about 'proctologically violated'...

Nobody Pays Full Retail in Los Angeles unless they are either brain
dead or terminally lazy, or in a severe time bind. All the warehouses
are here. In a small town I can see $35 plus for what we get for $20,
just for shipping and stocking.

-- Bruce --

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:36:52 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


Im paying $11.24 a stick at Hanks Electric in Costa Mesa, California

Yeah, but is that the good stuff? Or coming out of the Glorious
Peoples Republic Steel Foundry and Rice Noodle Factory in Shanghai?
(And it suspiciously bends like a noodle under stress...)


US made. and Ive got at least 600 feet of it hanging and Ive indeed
done chinups in the middle of a 4' length...and Im not a little bitty
fella...as you may recall.

You might not want Mr. Electrical Inspector to try a chin-up using a
length of the fake strut as the exercise bar - after he gets out of
the hospital... He's gonna come back and pick the place apart with a
microscope, and he'll bring all his inspector buddies from the other
specialties. Talk about 'proctologically violated'...

Nobody Pays Full Retail in Los Angeles unless they are either brain
dead or terminally lazy, or in a severe time bind. All the warehouses
are here. In a small town I can see $35 plus for what we get for $20,
just for shipping and stocking.

-- Bruce --


Indeed....retail? Whats that?

Gunner, third column pricing rocks!

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:05:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:36:52 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


Im paying $11.24 a stick at Hanks Electric in Costa Mesa, California

Yeah, but is that the good stuff? Or coming out of the Glorious
Peoples Republic Steel Foundry and Rice Noodle Factory in Shanghai?
(And it suspiciously bends like a noodle under stress...)


US made. and Ive got at least 600 feet of it hanging and Ive indeed
done chinups in the middle of a 4' length...and Im not a little bitty
fella...as you may recall.

One of my Dad's favorite stories concerned the time when he worked as
plant electrician in a war production facility. If the 300 lb.
maintenance chief couldn't pull it off the wall, a conduit was
adequately fastened.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:05:03 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

You might not want Mr. Electrical Inspector to try a chin-up using a
length of the fake strut as the exercise bar - after he gets out of
the hospital... He's gonna come back and pick the place apart with a
microscope, and he'll bring all his inspector buddies from the other
specialties. Talk about 'proctologically violated'...

Nobody Pays Full Retail in Los Angeles unless they are either brain
dead or terminally lazy, or in a severe time bind. All the warehouses
are here. In a small town I can see $35 plus for what we get for $20,
just for shipping and stocking.

-- Bruce --


Indeed....retail? Whats that?

That's what Liberals pay. They don't want anyone to think them
guilty of exploitation of the children in their sweatshops.

Gunner, third column pricing rocks!

Yeah.

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On 2008-10-20, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
I bought some 1-5/8" square Unistrut at HD last year, when I bought my
truck. I cut it and used it in place of the $165 (through Toyota) bed
rail system. Cost: $20 for a 10' stick, $20 more for some t-nuts,
bolts, & pipe clamps. The low-profile stuff (1-5/8" x 13/16", no
holes) was $15/stick.

They don't show it online, but it's in the electrical section.
Sparkies use it for hanging conduit. (Right, Bruce?)

If you can't find it at your local HD, call some of the electrical
supply houses (Platt Electric Supply up here in PNW) for it. It'll be
$35-44 a stick, but you'll find it. What a crock!

Cheaper source, plus (outrageous?) shipping fees
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-U-cln-Unistrut-Electrical-Raceway/Categories

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator enclosure.

i



Outriggers might have made things do-able if I'd had them last
Thursday when I brought the Bridgie home. The crane was sitting on
level dirt, but it was uneven enough that it tilted slighly to one
side when we were picking up the BP, so in the end I had to get the
neighbor to bring over his Bobcat and lift it off for me.

Hey, nice neighbors!


--
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to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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posting on Usenet.
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Ignoramus24384 wrote:

Cheaper source, plus (outrageous?) shipping fees
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-U-cln-Unistrut-Electrical-Raceway/Categories

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator enclosure.

You can do that, and it might be worthwhile if you expect it to be
temporary and then recycle the components. The Unistrut, angle brackets,
bolts and nuts will get pretty expensive. Buy a few sticks of regular
square steel tubing, 1" is probably fine, and just weld up a nice rigid
frame.

Ignoramus24384 writes:

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not possible.
Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

On 2008-10-22, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ignoramus24384 writes:

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not possible.
Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

I mean a liquid cooled diesel generator. The main purpose of rthe
enclosure will be to keep elements away, sound muffling will be
secondary, as this generator is not too loud.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
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Ignoramus24384 writes:

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator
enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not
possible. Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

I mean a liquid cooled diesel generator.

OK, that's quite feasible.

I just happen to live in a land of annual hurricanes, and shake my head at
every case of people trying to "improve" cheap generators.

On 2008-10-22, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ignoramus24384 writes:

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator
enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not
possible. Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

I mean a liquid cooled diesel generator.

OK, that's quite feasible.

I just happen to live in a land of annual hurricanes, and shake my head at
every case of people trying to "improve" cheap generators.

I tried that and arrived to the same sentiment as you. Trying to make
a cheap generator into an expensive generator is more expensive than
buying an expensive generator outright. Mine is 20 kW, with under 200
hours on the meter. I bought it used. I want to keep it clean, dry and
safe from any environmental effects.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:21:40 -0500, Ignoramus24384
wrote:

On 2008-10-22, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ignoramus24384 writes:

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator
enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not
possible. Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

I mean a liquid cooled diesel generator.

OK, that's quite feasible.

I just happen to live in a land of annual hurricanes, and shake my head at
every case of people trying to "improve" cheap generators.

I tried that and arrived to the same sentiment as you. Trying to make
a cheap generator into an expensive generator is more expensive than
buying an expensive generator outright. Mine is 20 kW, with under 200
hours on the meter. I bought it used. I want to keep it clean, dry and
safe from any environmental effects.

That's why you make the cover frame from mild steel tubing, cover it
with heavy sheet metal and seam it weathertight, make inner cover
panels from sheet aluminum, put fiberglass batt insulation in between
and rivet the inner panels on.

With Strut you are paying a lot extra for that slot, if you won't
need to change it once finished why pay for a never needed feature?

I'm going to make up a pipe and conduit rack cart, and use Strut for
the uprights and material storage crossarms so they can be adjusted
later. But the rest of the frame will be recycled light poles or mild
tubing, since the frame will never need to be changed or adjusted.

-- Bruce --

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:57:59 -0500, the infamous Richard J Kinch
scrawled the following:

Ignoramus24384 writes:

Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not possible.
Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

Not necessarily, Doc. Two U-shaped, sound-damped frames with a lid on
top will take a helluva lot of sound out of the picture while
providing ample air exchange.

I'd show you the example over my air compressor but I haven't pulled
enough crap^H^H^H^Hgoodies out of my shop to be able to get in there
to work just yet. I've seen one in action, though, and they drop at
least 6dB with a 3" gap on both sides. That quarters the noise.

Indoors, you can get away with old carpeting on the inside of the
OSB/2x2 frame.

Outside, he'll have to use rain/freeze-proof materials. A separate
muffler box for the exhaust wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn

Larry Jaques writes:

Two U-shaped, sound-damped frames with a lid on
top will take a helluva lot of sound out of the picture while
providing ample air exchange.

Enclosing your air compressor is no example. A convection-air-cooled 10 HP
gasoline engine puts out huge amounts of waste heat. Mere air exchange is
not the issue. If you enclose free convection, you raise the ambient
temperature around the fuel tank dangerously, where it can and will boil.
You can hardly put them up against a wall.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:46:29 -0500, the infamous Richard J Kinch
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques writes:

Two U-shaped, sound-damped frames with a lid on
top will take a helluva lot of sound out of the picture while
providing ample air exchange.

Enclosing your air compressor is no example. A convection-air-cooled 10 HP
gasoline engine puts out huge amounts of waste heat. Mere air exchange is
not the issue. If you enclose free convection, you raise the ambient
temperature around the fuel tank dangerously, where it can and will boil.
You can hardly put them up against a wall.

As I have no experience in this particular application of air-cooled
IC engines, I'll bow to your expertise.

I thought the intake air would supplement the convection enough to
handle it. Don't the air-cooled types use fans, too, though no
radiators? Aim the fan output at one side to increase draw on the
other.

Then again, most generators I've seen have radiators and are liquid,
not air, cooled. shrug

--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 05:41:28 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:46:29 -0500, the infamous Richard J Kinch
scrawled the following:
Larry Jaques writes:

Two U-shaped, sound-damped frames with a lid on
top will take a helluva lot of sound out of the picture while
providing ample air exchange.

Enclosing your air compressor is no example. A convection-air-cooled 10 HP
gasoline engine puts out huge amounts of waste heat. Mere air exchange is
not the issue. If you enclose free convection, you raise the ambient
temperature around the fuel tank dangerously, where it can and will boil.
You can hardly put them up against a wall.

As I have no experience in this particular application of air-cooled
IC engines, I'll bow to your expertise.

I thought the intake air would supplement the convection enough to
handle it. Don't the air-cooled types use fans, too, though no
radiators? Aim the fan output at one side to increase draw on the
other.

Then again, most generators I've seen have radiators and are liquid,
not air, cooled. shrug

You can make a sound enclosure around practically anything, but you
have to think it through first.

You have to allow access for service, and proper ventilation (fan
forced if needed), and insulate against radiant heat from the exhaust
on an engine, and get the fuel supply out of the engine enclosure to
reduce fire hazards...

A small portable air-cooled generator could be done, but it's a lot
of work for the expected end results - and the portable units aren't
built for longevity, so you'll have to do it again in a few hundred
hours of run time. A compromise would be a unit designed for
Motorhome use, made for running enclosed and sound damped.

If you need larger and quiet, they make small factory sound-enclosed
units specifically for Residential Backup service from Cummins/Onan,
Kohler, Generac, Briggs, etc. Just pour a slab at the side of the
house and set it down, run the output and control wiring, connect an
external fuel source, and you're done.

-- Bruce --

Bruce L. Bergman writes:

A compromise would be a unit designed for
Motorhome use, made for running enclosed and sound damped.

Yes, these rather exemplify the problem, as they spend a significant
overhead of their generated power blowing air through the restrictions
of their effective sound enclosures.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:44:42 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Bruce L. Bergman writes:

A compromise would be a unit designed for
Motorhome use, made for running enclosed and sound damped.

Yes, these rather exemplify the problem, as they spend a significant
overhead of their generated power blowing air through the restrictions
of their effective sound enclosures.

But you can buy one and put it in service relatively quick and easy,
without the level of engineering needed to convert a contractors
portable model generator into an enclosed and sound damped unit. And
they tend to be built with expected service life in the thousands of
hours instead of hundreds.

Just have to make a stand to get it off the ground so the cooling
air exhaust and tailpipe can get out. And an outer weather enclosure.

-- Bruce --

On Oct 21, 10:09*pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ignoramus24384 writes:
Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator
enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not
possible. *Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

I mean a liquid cooled diesel generator.

OK, that's quite feasible.

I just happen to live in a land of annual hurricanes, and shake my head at
every case of people trying to "improve" cheap generators.

Want to give us some examples of what people try to do to "improve"
their generators?

Thanks

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:13:12 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Oct 21, 10:09*pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ignoramus24384 writes:
Good idea, I will use it for the frame to make a generator
enclosure.

If you mean an air-cooled gasoline-powered generator, that's not
possible. *Any enclosure that keeps in sound will keep in heat.

I mean a liquid cooled diesel generator.

OK, that's quite feasible.

I just happen to live in a land of annual hurricanes, and shake my head at
every case of people trying to "improve" cheap generators.

Want to give us some examples of what people try to do to "improve"
their generators?

I've seen many local news stories from that region where they put
their generator outside chained to a big tree - but the thieves have
bigger bolt cutters, and/or a bigger gun.

They get another, but this time try to rig up an extension on the
exhaust pipe so they can have the generator locked up inside the house
and run the exhaust out the window - but the whole family gets nailed
by the CO because their plumbing job was horrible.

Or the radiant heat from the exhaust lights the window frame or the
curtains on fire, and there goes the house.

-- Bruce --