A while back I posted some pictures of a balance beam I made in the shop out
of 6061 bar stock aluminum. I was thinking I might like to give some away
to my fishing club if I could make them cheap enough. The aluminum is
certainly cheap enough if I buy it from a metal distributor, but there are a
few things that add up.

To attach the handle to the beam requires some form of ring so that the beam
can swing freely. I used key rings on my first three, but they are all of
unknown quality and materials. Some are chrome over brass which is not
strong, but will never corrode out. Others are cheap chrome over some
ferrous alloy which are strong, but will most certainly rust. I need to
find a cheap decent quality ring for this. I even considered making my own
out of stainless wire, and mage a small jig to stamp it into shape. This
brings me to my second item.

Hooks. I need a moderately large snap hook to actually hang off each end of
the beam. In my first practice runs I used some stainless steel hooks
removed from a high quality fish stringer. They work very well, but that
quality of stringer is hard to find, and relatively speaking they are
expensive. Yes, with these I can make a a balance beam cheaper than I can
buy one, but not much. I was thinking if I could find the right stainless
steel wire I could make my own snap hooks on a duo-lock type design except
just keep the bottom part (large end) straight.

http://www.uk-hooks.com/prodimage/Th...85-duolock.jpg

I was thinking I could set some pins in a board or weld pins to a plate to
make a quick and easy bending jig. TIG wire does come in sizes that would
be suitable, but I would need to know what alloy will be bendable with some
manageable force, and yet have good strength and decent springyness after
being bent to shape. Each hook would need to be able to hold 10+ pounds
without distorting. I am thinking a 1/16" or 3/32" wire would be pretty
close to what I am looking for. I figured when I got a little closer I'ld
throw a caliper on the hooks I have for size.

So what alloy wire should I try for this, or can you suggest a source that
is different entirely?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

but I would need to know what alloy will be bendable with some
manageable force, and yet have good strength and decent springyness
after being bent to shape.

Consider an annealed wire which you could harden after forming.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

but I would need to know what alloy will be bendable with some
manageable force, and yet have good strength and decent springyness
after being bent to shape.

Consider an annealed wire which you could harden after forming.

Like rod stock? Where would I find rod stock that small?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

but I would need to know what alloy will be bendable with some
manageable force, and yet have good strength and decent springyness
after being bent to shape.

Consider an annealed wire which you could harden after forming.

Like rod stock? Where would I find rod stock that small?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

From: http://home.earthlink.net/~bazillion/matls.html

Springs are usually made from alloys of steel. The most common spring steels
are music wire, oil tempered wire, chrome silicon, chrome vanadium, and 302
and 17-7 stainless. Other materials can also be formed into springs,
depending on the characteristics needed. Some of the more common of these
exotic metals include beryllium copper, phosphor bronze, Inconel, Monel, and
titanium. The following table summarizes the more important properties of
each material:

Stainless steels will not rust, making them ideal for the food industry and
other environments containing water or steam. 302 series stainless will
expand slightly under heat: 17-7 will usually not change. Cannot be plated.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBasssMan.com

On Jul 30, 11:55*am, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in messagenews:Xns9AEB8C76FB669lloydspmindspringcom@2 16.168.3.70...

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

but I would need to know what alloy will be bendable with some
manageable force, and yet have good strength and decent springyness
after being bent to shape.

Consider an annealed wire which you could harden after forming.

Like rod stock? *Where would I find rod stock that small?

Bob La Londewww.YumaBassMan.com

Hardware store? Both the local Aces and True Values carry onesies of
stainless rod/wire from 1/16" to about 3/8". Ditto hobby shops.
Brass wire/rod and music wire from the same sources. The borgs
probably won't have it that small. Otherwise Enco/MSC/Grainger.

Stan

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:g6q9v2$l97$1
@aioe.org:


Like rod stock? Where would I find rod stock that small?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com



Bob, if I were doing it, I'd make the pivot rod from some high-chromium
drill rod (virtually corrosion proof), and mount that in a clevis, rather
than forming the entire assembly from a single piece of wire.

But that's just me...

OTOH, if you're VERY careful, use heat-sinks around the area, and use a
tiny pencil flame, you can partially anneal just the sections of the
drill rod that require bending, and leave the working length full-hard.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:g6q9v2$l97$1
@aioe.org:


Like rod stock? Where would I find rod stock that small?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com



Bob, if I were doing it, I'd make the pivot rod from some high-chromium
drill rod (virtually corrosion proof), and mount that in a clevis, rather
than forming the entire assembly from a single piece of wire.

But that's just me...

OTOH, if you're VERY careful, use heat-sinks around the area, and use a
tiny pencil flame, you can partially anneal just the sections of the
drill rod that require bending, and leave the working length full-hard.

I like that idea. I just ordered some 17-7 .093 wire to play with for this.
Its a little heavy, but the commercial beam I have uses wire this thick.
Actually closer to .098. The hooks on my home made beams are only .079. If
I can't handle the thicker wire I may search for some a little smaller.

Would you oil quench it when finished for moderately quick cooling and
hardening?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

Would you oil quench it when finished for moderately quick cooling and
hardening?

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com




If I wanted to re-harden the rod, I would use an air-hardening alloy, and
not fuss with liquid quenching. Ultimate hardness isn't much of an issue
in this application. As-shipped temper is probably enough, so long as
you don't buy fully-annealed rod.

LLoyd

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:02:41 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message


OTOH, if you're VERY careful, use heat-sinks around the area, and use a
tiny pencil flame, you can partially anneal just the sections of the
drill rod that require bending, and leave the working length full-hard.

I like that idea. I just ordered some 17-7 .093 wire to play with for this.
Its a little heavy, but the commercial beam I have uses wire this thick.
Actually closer to .098. The hooks on my home made beams are only .079. If
I can't handle the thicker wire I may search for some a little smaller.

Would you oil quench it when finished for moderately quick cooling and
hardening?

17-7 is a precipitation hardening alloy - forget everything you know
about annealing and heat treating simple steels. The heat treat is
dead easy if you've got a furnace, but you're not going to be able to
do much for 17-7 with a torch.

Personally, I'd get hold of some 302 spring wire and put the effort
into figuring out how to make the forms you need with that. 302 and
the other austenitic stainless steels (304 and 316 are the most
common) are hardened by cold working, not heat treating. If you anneal
them the only way to get the strength back is by more cold work.

You should be able to bend 302, 304, or 316 into the shapes you need
with little fear of cracking. The austenitic stainless steels have
very high elongation properties, i.e., they'll yield and stretch
without breaking.

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:02:41 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message


OTOH, if you're VERY careful, use heat-sinks around the area, and use a
tiny pencil flame, you can partially anneal just the sections of the
drill rod that require bending, and leave the working length full-hard.

I like that idea. I just ordered some 17-7 .093 wire to play with for
this.
Its a little heavy, but the commercial beam I have uses wire this thick.
Actually closer to .098. The hooks on my home made beams are only .079.
If
I can't handle the thicker wire I may search for some a little smaller.

Would you oil quench it when finished for moderately quick cooling and
hardening?

17-7 is a precipitation hardening alloy - forget everything you know
about annealing and heat treating simple steels. The heat treat is
dead easy if you've got a furnace, but you're not going to be able to
do much for 17-7 with a torch.

Personally, I'd get hold of some 302 spring wire and put the effort
into figuring out how to make the forms you need with that. 302 and
the other austenitic stainless steels (304 and 316 are the most
common) are hardened by cold working, not heat treating. If you anneal
them the only way to get the strength back is by more cold work.

You should be able to bend 302, 304, or 316 into the shapes you need
with little fear of cracking. The austenitic stainless steels have
very high elongation properties, i.e., they'll yield and stretch
without breaking.

I have made a set of prototype snap hooks out of the 17-7 .093 wire, and I
think I have a bending jig (three attempts) and a final wire design that
will work. I'm not sure what the life of the hook will be, but probably
indefinite if the end user does not try to over flex and reshape it. I can
grab both loop ends of the hook and pull it apart, but it takes nearly full
strength to do so. With one more tiny bend I can probably totally eliminate
that even. Since most folks will be hanging a 1-3 pound fish off of it, I
doubt they will ever even see a distortion to the hook. I'll post pictures
of my prototypes when I finish my coffee and walk out to the shop later.

I think I will make one more bending jig. My first three attempts were made
out of 1/8" steel plate, 3/8 rod, and 3/4 rod. I would get a neater looking
final jig with straighter rod alignment if I used 1/4 or 3/8 plate for the
base. I could also then drill one edge of the plate to make a tip hook
bending jig instead of the pliers I am using now to put the starting hook
bend in the wire.

I do have some lighter 302 .080 spring wire ordered to try, but they 17-7
..093 does a pretty good job so far. It is pretty hard on my forearm to bend
and form. (I've got a sore arm from to much flipping and pitching.
(fishing))

I have a couple ring ideas to try, but have not figured it out fully yet.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

On Jul 30, 1:37*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
A while back I posted some pictures of a balance beam I made in the shop out
of 6061 bar stock aluminum. *I was thinking I might like to give some away
to my fishing club if I could make them cheap enough. *The aluminum is
certainly cheap enough if I buy it from a metal distributor, but there are a
few things that add up.

To attach the handle to the beam requires some form of ring so that the beam
can swing freely. *I used key rings on my first three, but they are all of
unknown quality and materials. *...

So what alloy wire should I try for this, or can you suggest a source that
is different entirely?

Bob La Londewww.YumaBassMan.com

These are cheap and hold up quite well outdoors, especially if you put
a drop of oil in the gate spring hole. There is an oval or pear-shaped
version that fits a finger more comfortably than the D ones.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47658

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Jul 30, 1:37 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
A while back I posted some pictures of a balance beam I made in the shop
out
of 6061 bar stock aluminum. I was thinking I might like to give some away
to my fishing club if I could make them cheap enough. The aluminum is
certainly cheap enough if I buy it from a metal distributor, but there are
a
few things that add up.

To attach the handle to the beam requires some form of ring so that the
beam
can swing freely. I used key rings on my first three, but they are all of
unknown quality and materials. ...

So what alloy wire should I try for this, or can you suggest a source that
is different entirely?

Bob La Londewww.YumaBassMan.com

These are cheap and hold up quite well outdoors, especially if you put
a drop of oil in the gate spring hole. There is an oval or pear-shaped
version that fits a finger more comfortably than the D ones.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47658

Yeah, I looked at those. I have actually found what I really wanted for
attaching the handles. A stainless steel key ring 1.25" dia. They range
from .29 to .75 each by the hundred. It actually looks like my holdup may
be finding sources for decent quality stainless spring wire in small
quantities to make my hooks. Bits of wire had 10lb spools of 302 for around
$90, but they shut down their website on July 31st. For .080 that was about
800 feet I think. The guys I got the 17-7 from have limited inventory of
salvage and scrap only.

This is my bending jig.
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5986/dscf1191jb5.jpg

I actually made three of them, four if you count a major modification to
this one. This one still needs a little refinement, but I am holding off
until I decide on my final wire before making another one. The varying
height of the various pegs is so I can make the first couple of bends and
swing over the back bending pegs. Then I slide the wire down and make the
next bend. If you notice my pins are nopt all straight. It does not really
have any negative affect on my bending process, but I used 1/8 plate for
protyping this jig. When I do the final jig I'll use 1/4 or 3/8 which will
help me to hold all the pins straight during the welding process.

These are my experimental stainless snap hooks made from .093 spring wire.

Open
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1441/dscf1192il6.jpg

Closed
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/230/dscf1193me5.jpg

Left to Right
1. Hand bent and used to layout first failed bending jig.
2. Bent on bending jig shown before latest modification

I decided I needed the point to stick out further when open. By making a
wider radius bend at the bottom and then back bending the point I was able
to do this with enough springyness to the final form.

3. Hand bent modification to number 2 per comments above.

I removed a 3/8 bending pin as used to make number 2, and welded in a 3/4
bending pin in its place.

4. Jig bent on jig as in picture. Oops. Cut the pokey end a little short.
5. Nearly perfect final of protyping process. Slight adjustment made to
circumfernence of final peg bend, and back bend.

The final design in number 5 also allows me to cut to length and sharpen the
end more easily after the entire bending process is completed.

I think I am going to set this project aside for now until I get a few more
wire samples in to experiment on and decide on my final wire.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

On Jul 30, 3:02*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
...The hooks on my home made beams are only .079. *If
I can't handle the thicker wire I may search for some a little smaller.
Bob La Londe

Enco has 0.063" type 302 SS tempered music wire, part # 325-4440,
$16.77 for a 1 Lb roll.
It's listed as 26 gage, probably a typo for 16.

Jim Wilkins

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Jul 30, 3:02 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
...The hooks on my home made beams are only .079. If
I can't handle the thicker wire I may search for some a little smaller.
Bob La Londe

Enco has 0.063" type 302 SS tempered music wire, part # 325-4440,
$16.77 for a 1 Lb roll.
It's listed as 26 gage, probably a typo for 16.

I'll look and see what their bigger spools price out at. I just got 1 10 lb
roll of .080 302 ($90apx) full hard (spring wire) shipped from Bits of Wire.
I guess I was the very last guy to place an order before they shut down that
website. They called me today to let me know they werre shipping it this
afternoon. I guess Bits of Wire was a web subsidiary of another company and
the found they were competing with themselves. The main company will only
be selling 25lb rolls, so a source for 1-10 lb rolls is appreciated. Thank
you.

On Aug 11, 3:51*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
...
I'll look and see what their bigger spools price out at. *I just got 1 10 lb
roll of .080 302 ($90apx) full hard (spring wire) shipped from Bits of Wire.
...The main company will only
be selling 25lb rolls, so a source for 1-10 lb rolls is appreciated. *Thank
you.

10 lbs is a LOT of loops. My chain mail shirt doesn't weigh that much.

Jim Wilkins

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Aug 11, 3:51 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
...
I'll look and see what their bigger spools price out at. I just got 1 10
lb
roll of .080 302 ($90apx) full hard (spring wire) shipped from Bits of
Wire.
...The main company will only
be selling 25lb rolls, so a source for 1-10 lb rolls is appreciated.
Thank
you.

10 lbs is a LOT of loops. My chain mail shirt doesn't weigh that much.

Jim Wilkins

Yeah, I think 10lbs of .080 is about 800'. Hmmm... You know I've got an
old .31 caliber pocket pistol kit in my desk that I never finished because
of a broken hand spring. I tried a variety of things in the past. Maybe I
can hammer some of this spring wire into a flat spring for it, and finally
finish it... if I have all the parts still. LOL.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com