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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Organ metal
I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a
rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. Can anyone suggest another sheet metal that is: Easily worked Solders well with an iron Isn't too hard to get hold of Isn't going to break the bank Sorry if this is the wrong group; many thanks. |
#2
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Organ metal
wrote:
I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. Can anyone suggest another sheet metal that is: Easily worked Solders well with an iron Isn't too hard to get hold of Isn't going to break the bank Sorry if this is the wrong group; many thanks. Have you seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rb8FMvbe20 . Looks like it might be fairly easy to replicate. Christopher, in another reply, mentioned higher levels of tin in better quality work so maybe pewter (britania metal) might be an option, although I have never tried to solder it with an iron only torch. It would also help if you mentioned your location. |
#3
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Organ metal
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#5
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Organ metal
How about asking some experts? http://organ.wicks.com/
wrote in message ... I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. Can anyone suggest another sheet metal that is: Easily worked Solders well with an iron Isn't too hard to get hold of Isn't going to break the bank Sorry if this is the wrong group; many thanks. |
#6
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Organ metal
Christopher Tidy wrote:
David Billington wrote: snip Have you seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rb8FMvbe20 . Looks like it might be fairly easy to replicate. Christopher, in another reply, mentioned higher levels of tin in better quality work so maybe pewter (britania metal) might be an option, although I have never tried to solder it with an iron only torch. It would also help if you mentioned your location. That's an interesting video. To elaborate, this is what the book says about alloy composition: "In the last hundred years or more, lead-tin alloy pipes for organs have been made with as high a composition as 85 wt% lead and 15 wt% tin. However, the organ trade had the view that no alloy for organ pipes contain less than 25 % tin, and in really good work no alloy with less than 55 % tin should be employed." Best wishes, Chris I wonder what the pewter I have would work like, it's 92-6-2, 92% tin, 6% antimony, 2% copper. And the things you find on the internet www.hevanet.com/dibblee/pipe_metallurgy.pdf |
#7
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Organ metal
David Billington wrote:
snip Have you seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rb8FMvbe20 . Looks like it might be fairly easy to replicate. Christopher, in another reply, mentioned higher levels of tin in better quality work so maybe pewter (britania metal) might be an option, although I have never tried to solder it with an iron only torch. It would also help if you mentioned your location. That's an interesting video. To elaborate, this is what the book says about alloy composition: "In the last hundred years or more, lead-tin alloy pipes for organs have been made with as high a composition as 85 wt% lead and 15 wt% tin. However, the organ trade had the view that no alloy for organ pipes contain less than 25 % tin, and in really good work no alloy with less than 55 % tin should be employed." Best wishes, Chris |
#8
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Organ metal
I just googled "organ pipe metal" and got 1,000,000 hits. The first
half dozen talked about what you want. Pete Stanaitis ----------------------- wrote: I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. Can anyone suggest another sheet metal that is: Easily worked Solders well with an iron Isn't too hard to get hold of Isn't going to break the bank Sorry if this is the wrong group; many thanks. |
#9
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Organ metal
If you can roll out a block into a sheet or a rod into a sheet -
buy bulk solder. Tin-lead by percentages. It comes in sticks and ingots. A electronic supply house can set up an order. Or perhaps direct. Look at a solder company. Tin lead. http://www.kester.com/en-us/products/index.aspx Page 9 on the North American 2007 Recommended Electronics Assembly.... You will need a roller - and roll out a sheet as needed. I'd take the bars and make smaller sheets. It would be nice to have a chunk from an old one and have it analyzed for the content % of material. Normally it is a simple and low cost test. Inquire as to what is needed (match head likely) and price. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ wrote: I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. Can anyone suggest another sheet metal that is: Easily worked Solders well with an iron Isn't too hard to get hold of Isn't going to break the bank Sorry if this is the wrong group; many thanks. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#10
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Organ metal
On May 10, 6:05*am, wrote:
I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. *The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. *Can anyone suggest another sheet metal that is: Easily worked Solders well with an iron Isn't too hard to get hold of Isn't going to break the bank Sorry if this is the wrong group; many thanks. There's a multi-volume set on organ construction you might look up at a larger library via interlibrary loan, apparently the proportions of lead and tin have a fairly large effect on the sound of the pipes. The higher the tin content, the better the sound, up to a point. Too high a tin content and you get "tin disease" and the pipes will fall apart with temperature change. I'm sure this alloy isn't available commercially as sheet, it's relatively easy to make up, after all. There are several books out there on past and present practice of pipe construction, you need a stone table long as the longest pipe and wider than the circumference of the widest one. A sliding trough is used to cast the molten alloy as it's slid down the table. Different thicknesses of sheet are used for the different pipe pitches. One documentary on one of the cable channels showed constructors doing this. Apparently wrought metal sounds different than cast. You could use tin or brass sheet, but the sound would probably be more like a whistle than an organ. For short stuff like you want, you could probably knock together a sliding trough out of pine and use a tombstone reject or maybe a cheap Chinese surface plate(almost the same thing). Stan |
#11
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Organ metal
David Billington wrote:
I wonder what the pewter I have would work like, it's 92-6-2, 92% tin, 6% antimony, 2% copper. I thinbk Pewter is too brittle to be rolled into tubes. Jon |
#12
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Organ metal
Jon Elson wrote:
David Billington wrote: I wonder what the pewter I have would work like, it's 92-6-2, 92% tin, 6% antimony, 2% copper. I thinbk Pewter is too brittle to be rolled into tubes. You haven't tried working the stuff then, I can spin a tankard from a flat disc without any anneals. In high school people regularly formed it into tubes and soldered the joints. I have never seen it act in a brittle fashion. Jon |
#13
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Organ metal
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - they've really helped.
I'll hope to finish the project in a few months and then put up a webpage about it. Try googling Stuart William Murray in a few months! |
#14
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Organ metal
On May 11, 1:35*am, wrote:
... For short stuff like you want, you could probably knock together a sliding trough out of pine and use a tombstone reject or maybe a cheap Chinese surface plate(almost the same thing). Stan I've heard that a canvas-lined wooden tray works, although it didn't for me using battery lead. I didn't have enough 50:50 solder to fill the sliding box. Jim Wilkins |
#15
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Organ metal
David Billington wrote:
Jon Elson wrote: David Billington wrote: I wonder what the pewter I have would work like, it's 92-6-2, 92% tin, 6% antimony, 2% copper. I thinbk Pewter is too brittle to be rolled into tubes. You haven't tried working the stuff then, I can spin a tankard from a flat disc without any anneals. In high school people regularly formed it into tubes and soldered the joints. I have never seen it act in a brittle fashion. Then the stuff I thought was pewter must not have been. Probably some cheap zinc imitation. Yes, tin, antimoney and copper sounds like an alloy that should be easily worked. Jon |
#16
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Organ metal
"Jon Elson" wrote in message news David Billington wrote: Jon Elson wrote: David Billington wrote: I wonder what the pewter I have would work like, it's 92-6-2, 92% tin, 6% antimony, 2% copper. I thinbk Pewter is too brittle to be rolled into tubes. You haven't tried working the stuff then, I can spin a tankard from a flat disc without any anneals. In high school people regularly formed it into tubes and soldered the joints. I have never seen it act in a brittle fashion. Then the stuff I thought was pewter must not have been. Probably some cheap zinc imitation. Yes, tin, antimoney and copper sounds like an alloy that should be easily worked. Jon Pewter alloys are wacky, in that they get softer and more malleable with cold working. Freshly cast they are fairly brittle and hard because the crystals are big and chunky. As you work them the grain gets more refined and they work like butter. Paul K. Dickman |
#17
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Organ metal
Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Jon Elson" wrote in message news David Billington wrote: Jon Elson wrote: David Billington wrote: I wonder what the pewter I have would work like, it's 92-6-2, 92% tin, 6% antimony, 2% copper. I thinbk Pewter is too brittle to be rolled into tubes. You haven't tried working the stuff then, I can spin a tankard from a flat disc without any anneals. In high school people regularly formed it into tubes and soldered the joints. I have never seen it act in a brittle fashion. Then the stuff I thought was pewter must not have been. Probably some cheap zinc imitation. Yes, tin, antimoney and copper sounds like an alloy that should be easily worked. Jon Pewter alloys are wacky, in that they get softer and more malleable with cold working. Freshly cast they are fairly brittle and hard because the crystals are big and chunky. As you work them the grain gets more refined and they work like butter. Paul K. Dickman Interesting you should say that as the the guy that supplied with the pewter sheet mentioned it work softening in his experience but he makes sheet and other products from cast ingots IIRC. My main experience with pewter (Britannia metal) is with rolled sheet upto 2mm thick although I do some casting and having just bent a cast handle with about 10mm thickness quite significantly without breakage, possibly that is a small section and the grain size is still small due to rapid cooling. |
#18
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Organ metal
"David Billington" wrote in message ... Paul K. Dickman wrote: "Jon Elson" wrote in message news Pewter alloys are wacky, in that they get softer and more malleable with cold working. Freshly cast they are fairly brittle and hard because the crystals are big and chunky. As you work them the grain gets more refined and they work like butter. Paul K. Dickman Interesting you should say that as the the guy that supplied with the pewter sheet mentioned it work softening in his experience but he makes sheet and other products from cast ingots IIRC. My main experience with pewter (Britannia metal) is with rolled sheet upto 2mm thick although I do some casting and having just bent a cast handle with about 10mm thickness quite significantly without breakage, possibly that is a small section and the grain size is still small due to rapid cooling. It's not like cast iron. It is still malleable as cast, otherwise we would not be able to roll out sheet. I'll bet you heard it sing when you bent it. Paul K. Dickman |
#19
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Organ metal
Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"David Billington" wrote in message ... Paul K. Dickman wrote: "Jon Elson" wrote in message news Pewter alloys are wacky, in that they get softer and more malleable with cold working. Freshly cast they are fairly brittle and hard because the crystals are big and chunky. As you work them the grain gets more refined and they work like butter. Paul K. Dickman Interesting you should say that as the the guy that supplied with the pewter sheet mentioned it work softening in his experience but he makes sheet and other products from cast ingots IIRC. My main experience with pewter (Britannia metal) is with rolled sheet upto 2mm thick although I do some casting and having just bent a cast handle with about 10mm thickness quite significantly without breakage, possibly that is a small section and the grain size is still small due to rapid cooling. It's not like cast iron. It is still malleable as cast, otherwise we would not be able to roll out sheet. I'll bet you heard it sing when you bent it. Paul K. Dickman Not sing but I did feel little clicks. |
#20
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Organ metal
"David Billington" wrote in message ... Paul K. Dickman wrote: "David Billington" wrote in message ... Paul K. Dickman wrote: "Jon Elson" wrote in message news Pewter alloys are wacky, in that they get softer and more malleable with cold working. Freshly cast they are fairly brittle and hard because the crystals are big and chunky. As you work them the grain gets more refined and they work like butter. Paul K. Dickman Interesting you should say that as the the guy that supplied with the pewter sheet mentioned it work softening in his experience but he makes sheet and other products from cast ingots IIRC. My main experience with pewter (Britannia metal) is with rolled sheet upto 2mm thick although I do some casting and having just bent a cast handle with about 10mm thickness quite significantly without breakage, possibly that is a small section and the grain size is still small due to rapid cooling. It's not like cast iron. It is still malleable as cast, otherwise we would not be able to roll out sheet. I'll bet you heard it sing when you bent it. Paul K. Dickman Not sing but I did feel little clicks. That's it. Paul K. Dickman |
#21
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Organ metal
In article ,
wrote: I'm hoping to build a small pipe organ this summer, and as well as a rank of wooden pipes, I would like to make a set of small metal ones. The largest would be 2', going down to a few inches. The trouble is that most organ builders cast their own mixture of lead and tin for pipe building, which I don't belive is comercially available. Contact Organ Supply Industries and get their catalog (or download the PDF). They'll sell to serious enthusiasts and stock just about everything you would need to build an organ: http://www.organsupply.com If they don't have it then the next choice is Laukhuff in Germany. http://www.laukhuff.de Hope this helps! ---john. |
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