[[email protected]]

Just tell your supplier you want a .75-11.5NH tap or die.

[Richard J Kinch]

desperado writes:

I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut
garden hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.

Anybody have any sources?

No. They don't exist. These threads cannot be cut with taps or dies.

See:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...b1f31fd158cf14

Google ".75-11.5NH tap die" = 1 hit = Link farm pirating me saying they
don't exist.

[Richard J Kinch]

Just tell your supplier you want a .75-11.5NH tap or die.

Make sure you ask for a left-hand wrench to turn it, and a can of elbow
grease for lubricant.

[desperado]

I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--
don paolino

[DoN. Nichols]

According to desperado :

I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--

It is called a lathe. And not all will cut 11.5 TPI, so make
sure of that first.

Then learn to cut threads on a lathe -- both external and
internal.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Tom]

Don Foreman wrote:

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 21:26:17 -0800, "desperado"
wrote:


I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--
don paolino


It is 11.5" pitch, but it isn't 3/4" OD on a machined (not
rollformed) brass male fitting I have in my hand is 1.049".


It's based on 3/4" pipe sizing.

[Doug White]

Keywords:
In article , Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 23:53:18 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

desperado writes:

I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut
garden hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.

Anybody have any sources?

No. They don't exist. These threads cannot be cut with taps or dies.

See:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...b1f31fd158cf14

Google ".75-11.5NH tap die" = 1 hit = Link farm pirating me saying they
don't exist.

Dr. Kinch, why can't a guy with your capabilities and knowledge be
helpful once in a while?

The nominal diameter refers to the hose, not the thread. It's in
Machinery's Handbook, lookitup under ANSI Standard Hose Coupling Screw
Thread, page 1606 in the 23d edition. Nominal OD is 1-1/16", 11-1/2"
pitch for 1/2, 5/8 and 3/4 hose which is what garden hoses and hose
bibs are. I've made many on the lathe, and they're available at
Wal-Mart and hardware stores for a coupla bux: buy the fitting,
silverbraze to a suitable nipple and Bob's yer uncle.

Such threads certainly could be cut with suitable taps and dies,
though a bottoming tap might be problematic. I think I've seen taps
and dies in the McMaster Carr catalog.

Somewhere I have a combination rethreading & seat cleaning gadget. It's
probably not hardened to any degree, and I think the rethreading part is
designed mostly to remove paint or light dings from faucet threads. The
seat cutter is intended to clean up the face of a faucet to improve the
washer seat. It works to a degree, but you certainly couldn't cut new
threads with it.

Doug White

[Don Foreman]

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 21:26:17 -0800, "desperado"
wrote:


I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--
don paolino

It is 11.5" pitch, but it isn't 3/4" OD on a machined (not
rollformed) brass male fitting I have in my hand is 1.049".

[Don Foreman]

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 23:53:18 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

desperado writes:

I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut
garden hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.

Anybody have any sources?

No. They don't exist. These threads cannot be cut with taps or dies.

See:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...b1f31fd158cf14

Google ".75-11.5NH tap die" = 1 hit = Link farm pirating me saying they
don't exist.

Dr. Kinch, why can't a guy with your capabilities and knowledge be
helpful once in a while?

The nominal diameter refers to the hose, not the thread. It's in
Machinery's Handbook, lookitup under ANSI Standard Hose Coupling Screw
Thread, page 1606 in the 23d edition. Nominal OD is 1-1/16", 11-1/2"
pitch for 1/2, 5/8 and 3/4 hose which is what garden hoses and hose
bibs are. I've made many on the lathe, and they're available at
Wal-Mart and hardware stores for a coupla bux: buy the fitting,
silverbraze to a suitable nipple and Bob's yer uncle.

Such threads certainly could be cut with suitable taps and dies,
though a bottoming tap might be problematic. I think I've seen taps
and dies in the McMaster Carr catalog.

[[email protected]]

On page 2357 in thier 2007 catalog, under dies, McMaster-Carr says:

" Other die sizes up to 6" OD. Please ask for 26005A999 and
specify die OD, die size, right- or left-hand, and threads per inch."

[Richard J Kinch]

Don Foreman writes:

Such threads certainly could be cut with suitable taps and dies,
though a bottoming tap might be problematic.

Read and understand the standard, instead of just referencing it, and
you'll see why no proper tap or die exists. Or read my old post:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...b1f31fd158cf14

Dr. Kinch, why can't a guy with your capabilities and knowledge be
helpful once in a while?

Define "helpful". I've supplied the facts and analysis, which lead to a
negative conclusion in answer to a straightforward technical question.
It's not "helpful" to be positive about something when the truth is
negative. At least in metalworking.

I think I've seen taps and dies in the McMaster Carr catalog.

Great, why don't you think us up a part number or URL, and I'll eat my hat!

[Don Foreman]

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:38:16 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Don Foreman writes:

Such threads certainly could be cut with suitable taps and dies,
though a bottoming tap might be problematic.

Read and understand the standard, instead of just referencing it, and
you'll see why no proper tap or die exists. Or read my old post:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...b1f31fd158cf14

I did read both the standard and your old post. Saints preserve us, I
think I might understand both. Your old post is wrong. The thread
is a straightforward thread. I've made such fittings on my lathe.
They worked just fine, no different than any other thread.

Dr. Kinch, why can't a guy with your capabilities and knowledge be
helpful once in a while?

Define "helpful". I've supplied the facts and analysis, which lead to a
negative conclusion in answer to a straightforward technical question.
It's not "helpful" to be positive about something when the truth is
negative. At least in metalworking.

It is never helpful to be positive when the truth is negative. It is
also not helpful to be affirmatively negative when positive exists
that the affirmer doesn't know about. Metalworking isn't academia.
It's about what fits and works.

I think I've seen taps and dies in the McMaster Carr catalog.

Great, why don't you think us up a part number or URL, and I'll eat my hat!

I said I thought I'd seen. I could have been wrong and/or they may no
longer be available. Your hat and ego are both safe.

[matt]

On Nov 3, 10:26 pm, "desperado" wrote:
I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--
don paolino

This looks to me like a forest-and-trees scenario, based on the
replies
and discussion. There are two different types of this thread; one type
is
the thread on the end of your hose bibb coming out of the side of your
house. This thread is clearly a more-or-less standard V-thread form,
and
this is the male thread onto which you screw your hose. The second
type is the male thread on the end of a length of hose, which is
typically
a roll-formed thread, unless you have paid for a "high-end" hose like
those used in plant nurseries (3/4" id, rubber, "industrial" rating).
The
fitting on the OTHER end of the hose, the female end, is usually a
standard V-thread form, although I have seen some hoses that had
a roll-formed insert for the thread (bad, bad idea).

The major point is that you can take these fittings and join them at
the fittings interchangeably, so the functional fit can be specified
as
whatever the V-thread form specs actually are. There are indeed hose
thread specs in Machinery's Handbook, under ANSI Standard Hose
Coupling Screw Threads. I'm sure that there are taps and dies made
to produce the V-thread forms, although they probably aren't at your
local Ace Hardware.

As a secondary point, I highly recommend paying more for a high
quality hose that doesn't have those silly roll-formed threads.

[Richard J Kinch]

Don Foreman writes:

Your old post is wrong. The thread is a straightforward thread.

I stand by my old post, which lists a few part features in the standard
that can't be tapped or die-cut.

Let us know when you locate that McMaster item that "may no longer be
available". It would be in an old catalog, near the section on perpetual
motion parts.

[Ed Huntress]

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Don Foreman writes:

Your old post is wrong. The thread is a straightforward thread.

I stand by my old post, which lists a few part features in the standard
that can't be tapped or die-cut.

Let us know when you locate that McMaster item that "may no longer be
available". It would be in an old catalog, near the section on perpetual
motion parts.

Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec, Richard? I
don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately, but is it
something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped or die-cut?

--
Ed Huntress

[Richard J Kinch]

Ed Huntress writes:

Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec,
Richard?

Yes, via MH.

I don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately,
but is it something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped
or die-cut?

Yes, as my earlier post stated, the features of the *nipple* (male
component) and the *coupling* (female coupling) include not just the
thread, but also a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle.
That's not to say you can't tap or die-cut the .75-11.5 thread itself, but
that thread is only one feature of these couplings. The other features
require (as standard states) cutting, rolling, or thin-wall forming, not
tapping or die-cutting. So a tap or die alone will not do it.

[Ed Huntress]

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Ed Huntress writes:

Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec,
Richard?

Yes, via MH.

I don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately,
but is it something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped
or die-cut?

Yes, as my earlier post stated, the features of the *nipple* (male
component) and the *coupling* (female coupling) include not just the
thread, but also a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle.
That's not to say you can't tap or die-cut the .75-11.5 thread itself, but
that thread is only one feature of these couplings. The other features
require (as standard states) cutting, rolling, or thin-wall forming, not
tapping or die-cutting. So a tap or die alone will not do it.

OK, without having the standard here to look at, I can't comment on the
necessity of those other features. But I've watched hose bibbs being cut on
a dial-index machine and it was just a rough-turn, die-cutting, and facing
operation, as I recall. If the hose ends have extra features, do they really
matter for someone who wants to make a male fitting to connect to a
coupling?

--
Ed Huntress

[Martin H. Eastburn]

Pardon me -

Must my cast bronze solid 1:3 manifold needs rolling ? I've had and have
sharp turned (edges are sharp) and have not been rolled. Sheet is rolled and
formed. If the thread is rolled like a screw machine. Cutting means either
tap and die or automated (or manual ) machine cut threads.

I served for many years on several Standards groups. I/O spec, devices,
and modules. Then protocol and systems. A spec often is so inclusive
that it has a label as the spec. Have you seen the curving trident spear ?
Oh - USB plug / socket. Specs might be so complex it takes mechanical,
electrical, electronic, and others to write a single spec.
Not every use of that spec needs to use part of all of it, but it is
the basis for need. Parts of specs are most useful. USB in bulkheads
was one thing, the most confused part was the square and rectangular
plugs/sockets. Not all agreed on how they are used even though they
are defined. [ ANSI/JEDEC & IEEE ]



Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ed Huntress writes:

Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec,
Richard?

Yes, via MH.

I don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately,
but is it something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped
or die-cut?

Yes, as my earlier post stated, the features of the *nipple* (male
component) and the *coupling* (female coupling) include not just the
thread, but also a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle.
That's not to say you can't tap or die-cut the .75-11.5 thread itself, but
that thread is only one feature of these couplings. The other features
require (as standard states) cutting, rolling, or thin-wall forming, not
tapping or die-cutting. So a tap or die alone will not do it.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Don Foreman]

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:58:59 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Ed Huntress writes:

Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec,
Richard?

Yes, via MH.

I don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately,
but is it something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped
or die-cut?

Yes, as my earlier post stated, the features of the *nipple* (male
component) and the *coupling* (female coupling) include not just the
thread, but also a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle.
That's not to say you can't tap or die-cut the .75-11.5 thread itself, but
that thread is only one feature of these couplings. The other features
require (as standard states) cutting, rolling, or thin-wall forming, not
tapping or die-cutting. So a tap or die alone will not do it.

That's true. Your earlier post was not wrong, sorry 'bout that. The
tap and die I saw were the right thread, but they don't make those
other features. Those features, if they're really necessary for the
application, would have to be made on the lathe that also makes the
male "blank" of 1.0455 to 1.0625 OD, ditto for the appropriate blank
for the coupling.

[Don Foreman]

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:08:16 -0800, matt
wrote:

On Nov 3, 10:26 pm, "desperado" wrote:
I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--
don paolino

This looks to me like a forest-and-trees scenario, based on the
replies
and discussion. There are two different types of this thread; one type
is
the thread on the end of your hose bibb coming out of the side of your
house. This thread is clearly a more-or-less standard V-thread form,
and
this is the male thread onto which you screw your hose. The second
type is the male thread on the end of a length of hose, which is
typically
a roll-formed thread, unless you have paid for a "high-end" hose like
those used in plant nurseries (3/4" id, rubber, "industrial" rating).
The
fitting on the OTHER end of the hose, the female end, is usually a
standard V-thread form, although I have seen some hoses that had
a roll-formed insert for the thread (bad, bad idea).

The major point is that you can take these fittings and join them at
the fittings interchangeably, so the functional fit can be specified
as
whatever the V-thread form specs actually are. There are indeed hose
thread specs in Machinery's Handbook, under ANSI Standard Hose
Coupling Screw Threads. I'm sure that there are taps and dies made
to produce the V-thread forms, although they probably aren't at your
local Ace Hardware.

Richard Kinch says they're probably near the catalog section for
perpetual motion parts. Unfortunately, that section seems to be
missing from my catalog.

As a secondary point, I highly recommend paying more for a high
quality hose that doesn't have those silly roll-formed threads.

I've bought machine-cut brass couplings at Wal-Mart and at the local
good hardware store. They also have octagon wrench flats behind them.
There's enough brass there to easily silver-braze to something else if
desired. One example is Orbit SunMate Pro model 58113 for 5/8" hose.

Example:
http://tinyurl.com/2ywfwn

These are cut threads, not rolled. They're a lot cheaper at Wally's
when they have 'em.

[Richard J Kinch]

Ed Huntress writes:

OK, without having the standard here to look at, I can't comment on
the necessity of those other features. But I've watched hose bibbs
being cut on a dial-index machine and it was just a rough-turn,
die-cutting, and facing operation, as I recall. If the hose ends have
extra features, do they really matter for someone who wants to make a
male fitting to connect to a coupling?

It looks to me like you can omit the pilot and the thread-start lead-in
angle, and just cut the straight threads, as long as at least 9/16" of
threads are fully cut and/or relieved. This will be harder to assemble
and prone to cross-threading, compared to the standard part, but it will
work. Indeed, looking in my drawer of garden-hose parts, I see that
lots of adapters, repair couplings, quick-connects, etc. are quite non-
standard this way.

The female coupling does need relief, however, because the untapped
minor diameter is not going to let a nipple bottom out against the
gasket.

If somebody wants to make a male fitting with a .75-11.5NH die, you'll
still need a way to produce the major diameter of 1.0455 to 1.0625.
Schedule 40 3/4" pipe happens to have such an OD, but the ID is too big
for the standard nipple ID, so you've weakened the pipe by about halving
the wall thickness (unlike a tapered thread). But yeah, you can simply
tap and face 3/4" pipe this way, and it will sort of work, although it
isn't standard.

[Don Foreman]

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:33:48 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

Pardon me -

Must my cast bronze solid 1:3 manifold needs rolling ? I've had and have
sharp turned (edges are sharp) and have not been rolled. Sheet is rolled and
formed. If the thread is rolled like a screw machine. Cutting means either
tap and die or automated (or manual ) machine cut threads.

I served for many years on several Standards groups. I/O spec, devices,
and modules. Then protocol and systems. A spec often is so inclusive
that it has a label as the spec. Have you seen the curving trident spear ?
Oh - USB plug / socket. Specs might be so complex it takes mechanical,
electrical, electronic, and others to write a single spec.
Not every use of that spec needs to use part of all of it, but it is
the basis for need. Parts of specs are most useful. USB in bulkheads
was one thing, the most confused part was the square and rectangular
plugs/sockets. Not all agreed on how they are used even though they
are defined. [ ANSI/JEDEC & IEEE ]

I hope the ANSI cops don't come to inspect my garden hose fittings. If
they do, I'll refer them to Her Gentleness, since its her garden. Then
I'd just enjoy the show... G

[Martin H. Eastburn]

ANSI cops won't - just don't sell the house bud :-)

No it isn't like making a working 50 cal rifle in the shop.
But a buyer might get you in a mass market :-)

Martin
(out of them meeting after meeting groups).
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:33:48 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

Pardon me -

Must my cast bronze solid 1:3 manifold needs rolling ? I've had and have
sharp turned (edges are sharp) and have not been rolled. Sheet is rolled and
formed. If the thread is rolled like a screw machine. Cutting means either
tap and die or automated (or manual ) machine cut threads.

I served for many years on several Standards groups. I/O spec, devices,
and modules. Then protocol and systems. A spec often is so inclusive
that it has a label as the spec. Have you seen the curving trident spear ?
Oh - USB plug / socket. Specs might be so complex it takes mechanical,
electrical, electronic, and others to write a single spec.
Not every use of that spec needs to use part of all of it, but it is
the basis for need. Parts of specs are most useful. USB in bulkheads
was one thing, the most confused part was the square and rectangular
plugs/sockets. Not all agreed on how they are used even though they
are defined. [ ANSI/JEDEC & IEEE ]

I hope the ANSI cops don't come to inspect my garden hose fittings. If
they do, I'll refer them to Her Gentleness, since its her garden. Then
I'd just enjoy the show... G

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[sparky]

On Nov 5, 8:58 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ed Huntress writes:
Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec,
Richard?

Yes, via MH.

I don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately,
but is it something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped
or die-cut?

Yes, as my earlier post stated, the features of the *nipple* (male
component) and the *coupling* (female coupling) include not just the
thread, but also a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle.
That's not to say you can't tap or die-cut the .75-11.5 thread itself, but
that thread is only one feature of these couplings. The other features
require (as standard states) cutting, rolling, or thin-wall forming, not
tapping or die-cutting. So a tap or die alone will not do it.

If something can be threaded onto anything then a die can be made
which will cut that thread. Just because a die is not readily
available does not mean that one could not be used. You are wrong! A
tap or die alone WILL suffice to make a usable thread.

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Don: It appears that posing a question on this news group can sometimes be
somewhat like going to a fire hydrant to get a drink of water.

"desperado" wrote in message
.. .

I have never seen taps, dies or even rethreading taps and dies to cut
garden
hose thread, which I believe is 3/4 11 1/2 size.
Anybody have any sources?--
don paolino

[Don Foreman]

On 7 Nov 2007 00:08:50 -0800, sparky wrote:

On Nov 5, 8:58 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ed Huntress writes:
Are you taking this from the ANSI/ASME B1.20.7-1991 (R2003) spec,
Richard?

Yes, via MH.

I don't have access to that stuff these days, unfortunately,
but is it something in there that leads you to say it can't be tapped
or die-cut?

Yes, as my earlier post stated, the features of the *nipple* (male
component) and the *coupling* (female coupling) include not just the
thread, but also a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle.
That's not to say you can't tap or die-cut the .75-11.5 thread itself, but
that thread is only one feature of these couplings. The other features
require (as standard states) cutting, rolling, or thin-wall forming, not
tapping or die-cutting. So a tap or die alone will not do it.

If something can be threaded onto anything then a die can be made
which will cut that thread. Just because a die is not readily
available does not mean that one could not be used. You are wrong! A
tap or die alone WILL suffice to make a usable thread.

It will indeed. The ANSI spec that Richard refers to includes some
features of hose couplings beyond the threads, as in the blanks that
one might thread with a tap or die. In general terms, these features
provide a place for the washer to go in the female coupling, and some
lead in chamfer to make them easy to assemble.

The original question was indeed about cutting threads!

[Don Foreman]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:53:17 -0800, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Don: It appears that posing a question on this news group can sometimes be
somewhat like going to a fire hydrant to get a drink of water.

Yup. Like asking what time it is and getting the history of
horology. You might even find out what time it is (or was) if yer
lucky. Makes it interesting!

[Richard J Kinch]

Don Foreman writes:

The original question was indeed about cutting threads!

"Threads" is an ambiguous term. There is a basic thread form, and then
there is an application of that abstract form to a part, with pilot, lead-
in, thread starts, relief, etc., that are also elements of a usable
"thread". Beware the definitional retreat.