I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message
...
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!

Ignoramus17253 wrote:

I am rather amazed as to how tough the hard drives are.

I'm not that much amazed how weak your are.


Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
http://www.yadro.de

Ignoramus17253 wrote:

I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

High velocity data destruction works much better. 7 Rem. Mag. at 100
yds. will punch straight through all platters and cause enough shock to
shatter the cast aluminum frame. .22 LR will stop by the second platter
BTW.

In article ,
Ignoramus17253 wrote:

I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

Waste of a couple of large rare-earth magnets (per drive) you could get
by disassembling (sometimes only 1, sometimes a few tiny ones as well).

Not to mention nice aluminum for casting, when you strip off the other
crap, and some reasonable bearings. Sledgehammer - how...subtle.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!

Iggy needs to start an apple orchard or a brush company.

Karl

"Ecnerwal" wrote
in message
...
In article
,
Ignoramus17253
wrote:

I had a surprising experience recently. I took a
couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer.
I put a hard drive
on an anvil

Waste of a couple of large rare-earth magnets (per
drive) you could get
by disassembling (sometimes only 1, sometimes a few
tiny ones as well).

Not to mention nice aluminum for casting, when you
strip off the other
crap, and some reasonable bearings. Sledgehammer -
how...subtle.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

I needed a few of the magnets. Drill out pins, screw,
..... Used a large 5lb hammer. Hit on the sides, pull
the cover off... get your powerful magnets...

xman

Regarding a comment that I have too much time on my hands -- the hope
was to SAVE time by just hitting the drive with a sledgehammer.

i

The magnets inside the drive have to be the coolest things on the planet!
They are a pain to deal with but once you get them out they are very useful
to have around if anyone has never pulled one apart I'd recommend it just
for the parts.

At the bank I worked for we had a drill press that we sent all the drives
to that were being sunset. While I agree shooting them would be way more
fun we needed to document the destruction of the platters and a 3/8" hole
did the trick. (Then we scammed the magnets!)

On 2007-10-08, RDF wrote:
The magnets inside the drive have to be the coolest things on the planet!
They are a pain to deal with but once you get them out they are very useful
to have around if anyone has never pulled one apart I'd recommend it just
for the parts.

You can buy them by the hundred on eBay, for not too much, in my more
useful shapes. I have a lot of rare earth magnets and they are very
useful, but extracting them from hard drives is not cost effective (I
tried).

i

"RDF" wrote in message
. ..
The magnets inside the drive have to be the coolest things on the planet!
They are a pain to deal with but once you get them out they are very
useful to have around if anyone has never pulled one apart I'd recommend
it just for the parts.

At the bank I worked for we had a drill press that we sent all the
drives to that were being sunset. While I agree shooting them would be
way more fun we needed to document the destruction of the platters and a
3/8" hole did the trick. (Then we scammed the magnets!)




this is something i've been wondering about, i mean, not a LOT but was
wondering. the thread about a way to slow down a windmill using magnets and
a non-ferrous disc creating eddy effects... wouldn't a computer hard drive
do the same thing? fast spinning non-ferrous disc spinning rapidly near a
rare earth magnet? wouldn't you need at a certain point like a 3/4 hp motor
to spin the disc in a hard drive?

Not surprising,

If you take one apart before you sledge it, you'll see the base plate is a
sollid chunk of casting, they have to be to maintain the close tolerances.

The main spindle that the platters are on is in the center of the device so
if you smacked it in the center your sledge was pretty much striking a
sollid round piece of metal that got pushed directly on to the anvil, ya
might as well have his a 2 inch round aluminum.

Best way to get maximun destruction in one blow would be to grab it in a
vise about a 1/3 of the way up, below what would be the spindle and the hole
it goes through, then smack the **** out of it, you'll have a better chance
of cracking the base plate casting where the spindle goes through.

--.- Dave

"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message
...
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:46:50 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message
m...
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!


Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:46:50 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message
m...
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!


Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Of course, everyone should have a copy of that as well as the military
explosives tech manual... I expect we'll be needing them in the next few
years...

"Pete C." wrote in
:
snip

Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Of course, everyone should have a copy of that as well as the military
explosives tech manual... I expect we'll be needing them in the next
few years...


I've got a couple of them floating around and always wondered how acurate
they really are.
(Puts tinfoil hat on)
I've heard rummers that alot out there are intentially buggered up just
enough to screw up (read 'screw up' as cause major body parts to move in
oposite directions) to whoever might actually try to use the recipes or
procedures.
(Takes off tinfoil hat)

I do wish I could get my hands on info I could reasonably trust.

Bill

Try a highschool chemistry book,

This ain't rocket science..

--.- Dave

"Bill" wrote in message
. 97.142...
"Pete C." wrote in
:
snip

Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Of course, everyone should have a copy of that as well as the military
explosives tech manual... I expect we'll be needing them in the next
few years...


I've got a couple of them floating around and always wondered how acurate
they really are.
(Puts tinfoil hat on)
I've heard rummers that alot out there are intentially buggered up just
enough to screw up (read 'screw up' as cause major body parts to move in
oposite directions) to whoever might actually try to use the recipes or
procedures.
(Takes off tinfoil hat)

I do wish I could get my hands on info I could reasonably trust.

Bill

Geez Gunner,

I figured you'd have offered to give him a few rounds 357 :-)

--.- Dave


Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

It's pretty easy to just take the hard drive apart with hand tools, no
sledgehammer required.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist - New Orleans, LA
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com

In article ,
"xmradio" wrote:

I needed a few of the magnets. Drill out pins, screw,
.... Used a large 5lb hammer. Hit on the sides, pull
the cover off... get your powerful magnets...

All it takes is some tiny Torx (usually), a Phillips (often) and less
than 3 minutes. No drilling or hammer required. Bet it takes me less
time to take one apart than Iggy spent hammering.

Helps to remember that every "do not remove" label is concealing another
screw. Torx sizes under T10 are easy from McMaster or MSC, nearly
impossible at the average hardware store. Shipping will kill you if
that's all you order, but if you're placing an order anyway, a set from
T5 to T9 comes in handy.

In article ,
"William Wixon" wrote:

this is something i've been wondering about, i mean, not a LOT but was
wondering. the thread about a way to slow down a windmill using magnets and
a non-ferrous disc creating eddy effects... wouldn't a computer hard drive
do the same thing? fast spinning non-ferrous disc spinning rapidly near a
rare earth magnet? wouldn't you need at a certain point like a 3/4 hp motor
to spin the disc in a hard drive?

No. The magnets are off to one side of the disc, driving the head. They
are in pole pieces that make for a very powerful field between the
magnets (there's a coil on the head mechanism back-end that sits
in-between there), but which also help to contain the field there. If
you had them in a position to cause eddy currents, you'd destroy the
magnetic data on the drive surface.

Note - some very old drives don't have such nice magnets - they have a
stepper motor, but that's usually obvious from the outside of the drive.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Ignoramus17253 wrote:

I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

When I needed to kill a data drive from where I used to work, a minute or
two with the o/a torch did the job for me.

Wes

"Dave August" wrote:

I figured you'd have offered to give him a few rounds 357 :-)

Likely a felony without an Illinois FOID card.

Wes

Bill wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
:
snip

Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Of course, everyone should have a copy of that as well as the military
explosives tech manual... I expect we'll be needing them in the next
few years...


I've got a couple of them floating around and always wondered how acurate
they really are.
(Puts tinfoil hat on)
I've heard rummers that alot out there are intentially buggered up just
enough to screw up (read 'screw up' as cause major body parts to move in
oposite directions) to whoever might actually try to use the recipes or
procedures.
(Takes off tinfoil hat)

I do wish I could get my hands on info I could reasonably trust.

Bill

I think the ones that are actual US govt./ military publications should
be sufficiently trustworthy.

Pete C. wrote:
Bill wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
:
snip

Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Of course, everyone should have a copy of that as well as the military
explosives tech manual... I expect we'll be needing them in the next
few years...


I've got a couple of them floating around and always wondered how acurate
they really are.
(Puts tinfoil hat on)
I've heard rummers that alot out there are intentially buggered up just
enough to screw up (read 'screw up' as cause major body parts to move in
oposite directions) to whoever might actually try to use the recipes or
procedures.
(Takes off tinfoil hat)

I do wish I could get my hands on info I could reasonably trust.

Bill


I think the ones that are actual US govt./ military publications should
be sufficiently trustworthy.

Most of the military manuals, especially the improvised anything ones,
are only trustworthy if accompanied by the training that would have gone
with them when they were issued to those that needed them.

As stand alone knowledge bases, the ones I have seen, left a bunch to
be desired, and were written on the premise that the reader already knew
many important things.
They also presume access to supplies that would not be readilly
available, outside a combat zone (eg, mortar shells, from which, anti
personell mines could be improvised)

The basics of this stuff is easy, it's the million little details
that'll get the experimentally minded reader killed.

Even the better written books, that I have seen, expected that a base
of knowledge was available, and that the reader was not ignorant of the
basic safety precautions.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:04:30 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl
Townsend" quickly quoth:

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!

Iggy needs to start an apple orchard or a brush company.

Better yet, an apple brushing company!

--
Ultimately, the only power to which man should aspire
is that which he exercises over himself.
-- Elie Wiesel

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:02:19 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:46:50 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.
--snip--

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!

Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Yes, just make sure it's the one on IEDs, not IUDs, OK?
Hell, upload it to the dropbox, too. I'm sure it would interest many
of us.

--
Ultimately, the only power to which man should aspire
is that which he exercises over himself.
-- Elie Wiesel

"RDF" writes:

The magnets inside the drive have to be the coolest things on the planet!
They are a pain to deal with but once you get them out they are very useful
to have around if anyone has never pulled one apart I'd recommend it just
for the parts.

At the bank I worked for we had a drill press that we sent all the drives
to that were being sunset. While I agree shooting them would be way more
fun we needed to document the destruction of the platters and a 3/8" hole
did the trick. (Then we scammed the magnets!)

A single 3/8" hole would make the drive unuseable, but the data would
still be recoverable (except right in the hole, of course).

"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message
...
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

ISTR the NSA figures that if a disc is in something like 43 or more
pieces, the data is statistically irrecoverable. A nail or rod driven
through the case at the right place seems to do the job. A hammer isn't
necessarily going to break all the discs, especially if just one breaks and
the others bounce around, padded by the head and other bits of glass.

Ignoramus17253 wrote:
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

There's two problems here.

- there's no anvil, not that you need one to smash a hard disk.
- you have a weak wrist or can't handle a sledgehammer.

Ignoramus17253 wrote:
On 2007-10-08, RDF wrote:
The magnets inside the drive have to be the coolest things on the planet!
They are a pain to deal with but once you get them out they are very useful
to have around if anyone has never pulled one apart I'd recommend it just
for the parts.

You can buy them by the hundred on eBay, for not too much, in my more
useful shapes. I have a lot of rare earth magnets and they are very
useful, but extracting them from hard drives is not cost effective (I
tried).

You trying isn't saying much. You can't handle a hammer- there's not
much you could do with a torx driver.

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:59:03 -0500, Ignoramus17253 wrote:
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

I know I've said it before, but it's funny that, just seeing a subject
line, I can tell when you wrote it.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

Great source of little parts. Your budding engineer of a son would
probably find a great deal of pleasure from dissecting them.

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:57:28 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

High velocity data destruction works much better. 7 Rem. Mag. at 100
yds. will punch straight through all platters and cause enough shock to
shatter the cast aluminum frame. .22 LR will stop by the second platter
BTW.

Anything interesting happen if they're spinning at the time?

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:52:32 -0700, "Dave August"
wrote:

Geez Gunner,

I figured you'd have offered to give him a few rounds 357 :-)

--.- Dave

Im sure he already has those.

Gunner



Hummmm...I wonder if I should send him an e-book on improvised
explosives.......

Gunner

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:57:28 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

High velocity data destruction works much better. 7 Rem. Mag. at 100
yds. will punch straight through all platters and cause enough shock to
shatter the cast aluminum frame. .22 LR will stop by the second platter
BTW.

Anything interesting happen if they're spinning at the time?

I never tried dragging a battery out to power them up, however I suspect
even a 15K RPM drive wouldn't do anything real interesting spinning vs.
non spinning when hit with a 3,000 FPS+ projectile.

On 2007-10-08, Carl McIver wrote:
"Ignoramus17253" wrote in message
...
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...de-Mini-Anvil/

Then I hit it with a sledgehammer, expecting part to fly away and to
see the hard drive utterly demolished. But no such thing occurred.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

i

ISTR the NSA figures that if a disc is in something like 43 or more
pieces, the data is statistically irrecoverable. A nail or rod driven
through the case at the right place seems to do the job. A hammer isn't
necessarily going to break all the discs, especially if just one breaks and
the others bounce around, padded by the head and other bits of glass.

That was a MS windows hard drive, the only useful data was SSH keys.

On my linux box, I keep my secrets in a secure manner.

i

On 2007-10-08, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:59:03 -0500, Ignoramus17253 wrote:
I had a surprising experience recently. I took a couple of hard drives
and tried to destroy them with a 8 lb sledgehammer. I put a hard drive
on an anvil

I know I've said it before, but it's funny that, just seeing a subject
line, I can tell when you wrote it.

Barely any damage was visible on the drive (though, probably, it would
no longer function). After many more hits, finally, the hard drive was
shoring visible deformation of its frame. I am rather amazed as to how
tough the hard drives are.

Great source of little parts. Your budding engineer of a son would
probably find a great deal of pleasure from dissecting them.

We actually dissected one before, he liked it and we indeed took the
magnets out (and shiny platters). They are a little stronger than eBay
magnets, but not my as much as to justify their weird shape, for
actual use.

i

On 2007-10-09, Pete C. wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:57:28 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

High velocity data destruction works much better. 7 Rem. Mag. at 100
yds. will punch straight through all platters and cause enough shock to
shatter the cast aluminum frame. .22 LR will stop by the second platter
BTW.

Anything interesting happen if they're spinning at the time?

I never tried dragging a battery out to power them up, however I suspect
even a 15K RPM drive wouldn't do anything real interesting spinning vs.
non spinning when hit with a 3,000 FPS+ projectile.

Would be fun to try spinning them without the cover. (using full face
mask)

i

Ignoramus17253 wrote:

On 2007-10-09, Pete C. wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:57:28 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

High velocity data destruction works much better. 7 Rem. Mag. at 100
yds. will punch straight through all platters and cause enough shock to
shatter the cast aluminum frame. .22 LR will stop by the second platter
BTW.

Anything interesting happen if they're spinning at the time?

I never tried dragging a battery out to power them up, however I suspect
even a 15K RPM drive wouldn't do anything real interesting spinning vs.
non spinning when hit with a 3,000 FPS+ projectile.

Would be fun to try spinning them without the cover. (using full face
mask)

i

Just mill up a nice lexan replacement cover and call it wall art...

According to William Wixon :

[ ... ]

this is something i've been wondering about, i mean, not a LOT but was
wondering. the thread about a way to slow down a windmill using magnets and
a non-ferrous disc creating eddy effects... wouldn't a computer hard drive
do the same thing? fast spinning non-ferrous disc spinning rapidly near a
rare earth magnet? wouldn't you need at a certain point like a 3/4 hp motor
to spin the disc in a hard drive?

Nope! The magnets are in a set of pole pieces which confine the
field well away from the disks, and the coils on the back of the head
arms are in the only place where there is much field.

Remember -- if the field got to the platters, it would happily
erase the data on the platters, so there is very strong motivation to
keep the magnets' fields confined where it can move the head arm stack
and do nothing else.

Once you get the magnets out, if you try to separate the pole
pieces, be careful. You can get some nasty blood blisters if you start
to pry them apart and they snap closed again on your fingers. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

According to Ignoramus17253 :
On 2007-10-08, Dave Hinz wrote:

[ ... ]

Great source of little parts. Your budding engineer of a son would
probably find a great deal of pleasure from dissecting them.

We actually dissected one before, he liked it and we indeed took the
magnets out (and shiny platters). They are a little stronger than eBay
magnets, but not my as much as to justify their weird shape, for
actual use.

If you want to separate the magnets from the pole pieces, heat
it up with a torch to soften the Loctite (or similar) which glues the
magnets to the pole pieces. Put the pole piece in a vise, apply
sideways pressure with a screwdriver (or with some wood), and heat the
pole piece from below. When the Loctite softens, you will feel the
magnet slide sideways on the pole piece, and you can continue shoving
until it is clear. (It will probably flip over and stick to the back
side of the pole pieces.) Anyway, once you have it separate from the
pole piece, you can affix it to pole pieces designed to serve *your*
needs instead of those of the disk drive.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:04:30 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl
Townsend" quickly quoth:

My God, you have WAY too much time on your hands!

Iggy needs to start an apple orchard or a brush company.

Better yet, an apple brushing company!

Larry, you're just...not right!